Re: Complimentary App Server Choice

[Philippe Rabier via Webobjects-dev]

I didn't play. Just reading. 
Regarding Kitura, IBM ceased to contribute last year - 
https://www.infoq.com/news/2020/01/ibm-stop-work-swift-server/

Maybe someone else has a better and practical feedback to share on swift server 
side.

Have a good we 

Philippe

Sent from my iPhone


> On 21 Feb 2020, at 19:19, Tim W  wrote:
> 
> Thanks for all these thoughts Philippe! Have you investigated any of the 
> swift-based web frameworks like Kitura or Vapor? I may poke around with them 
> a bit - but I need to learn swift first.
> 
> I do like the availability of java libraries and jdbc connectivity.
> 
> Tim
> 
>> On Feb 19, 2020, at 4:10 PM, Philippe Rabier via Webobjects-dev 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> We considered using Typescript but we faced weird behaviors so we gave up. 
>> Too much stuff to learn at the same time. And it should help developing your 
>> code but it doesn't help when you work with external libraries. 
>> And I remember Benoit Marchant (MontageJS) saying: "if you want to embrace 
>> the web, you have to learn JavaScript". 
>> 
>> I forgot to mention we use also Vue on the front side which is really good. 
>> Much simpler to learn than React or Angular.io. 
>> 
>> To be honest, I won't use node for my next adventures. I would consider Go, 
>> Swift or maybe Kotlin/Java. Or Python if I'm using Google Cloud Functions 
>> because the code is small so the dynamic language is not a pain (but I never 
>> try yet so I dunno). But GCF is very appealing. 
>> 
>> Philippe
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> 
>>> On 19 Feb 2020, at 23:44, Gino Pacitti via Webobjects-dev 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Typescript tries to give you a more Java feel to JavaScript  - maybe you 
>>> could try that? You can use it via npm and cli or in an ide 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
> On 19 Feb 2020, at 20:12, Philippe Rabier via Webobjects-dev 
>  wrote:
> 
 Hi Tim,
 
 I worked as CTO in a company where Node has been chosen and I didn't want 
 to trouble the team and continue w/ the same technology. 
 
 So I decided to jump in the train and learned JavaScript, node etc. 
 It's not an easy language if you want to get benefit of the dynamic part 
 of the language. 
 
 What I disliked a lot is the fact it's very complicated to refactor the 
 code because as you know it's not a typed language so you discover the bug 
 while code execution. As a result the app must be fully tested. It's 
 really not an option. I used Webstorm which is a great IDE but can do very 
 little when you refactor the code or when you need to include modules 
 (like the import in java). 
 
 Moreover, the eco-system is poor quality compare to java libraries. Often 
 libraries are not maintained. I remember my team using ftp client which 
 worked great but then the provider changes to ftp over ssl and the library 
 didn't support it so we have to choose another one which was not well 
 designed. 
 
 If you follow this path, I recommend using Koa rather than express.js 
 which is the most used library w/ node but Koa is really well designed and 
 more recent. (Koa is like ERRest ;-)). We used also MongoDB v4 which is 
 better than I thought (and much better than it was in the past). We used 
 Mongoose which is like an ORM but as it's a document database it's a bit 
 different. Moreover Mongoose "encapsulates" pure JavaScript objets (like 
 EO compare to pojo) so we had from time to time to copy the mongoose 
 object into pure JavaScript object to use other libraries like lodash (a 
 must have library). 
 
 So I have a mixed feeling about this environnement. But as a friend said: 
 with Java compiler even a young developer (or bad one) creates a code that 
 runs. Not the case with javascript where code can be ugly very easily. 
 
 Philippe
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 
>> On 18 Feb 2020, at 20:40, Tim W via Webobjects-dev 
>>  wrote:
>> 
> 
> Thanks for this Lon.
> 
> As I begin contemplating a move from WO -> Cayenne, I’m really 
> appreciating hearing what folks are using from a front-end perspective. 
> Wicket looks like a pretty interesting one and from a familiarity 
> perspective may be the best I’ve seen coming from a WO background.
> 
> Since I haven’t made the leap I don’t know how folks are binding various 
> front-end technologies, like angular etc., to a ORM backend. I’m assuming 
> by moving toward web api’s.
> 
> From a non-familiarity perspective (and focused more on broadening 
> skillsets), I’m thinking of looking at Node.js to leverage ORM experience 
> but also branch more into front-ends the way the kids are doing it. I 
> don’t expect many from the WO army have gone that direction but curious 
> to hear of any experiences.
> 
> Tim
> UCLA GSE
> 
>> On 

Re: Complimentary App Server Choice

[Tim W via Webobjects-dev]

Thanks for all these thoughts Philippe! Have you investigated any of the 
swift-based web frameworks like Kitura or Vapor? I may poke around with them a 
bit - but I need to learn swift first.

I do like the availability of java libraries and jdbc connectivity.

Tim

> On Feb 19, 2020, at 4:10 PM, Philippe Rabier via Webobjects-dev 
>  wrote:
> 
> We considered using Typescript but we faced weird behaviors so we gave up. 
> Too much stuff to learn at the same time. And it should help developing your 
> code but it doesn't help when you work with external libraries. 
> And I remember Benoit Marchant (MontageJS) saying: "if you want to embrace 
> the web, you have to learn JavaScript". 
> 
> I forgot to mention we use also Vue on the front side which is really good. 
> Much simpler to learn than React or Angular.io . 
> 
> To be honest, I won't use node for my next adventures. I would consider Go, 
> Swift or maybe Kotlin/Java. Or Python if I'm using Google Cloud Functions 
> because the code is small so the dynamic language is not a pain (but I never 
> try yet so I dunno). But GCF is very appealing. 
> 
> Philippe
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> 
>> On 19 Feb 2020, at 23:44, Gino Pacitti via Webobjects-dev 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Typescript tries to give you a more Java feel to JavaScript  - maybe you 
>> could try that? You can use it via npm and cli or in an ide 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 19 Feb 2020, at 20:12, Philippe Rabier via Webobjects-dev 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Tim,
>>> 
>>> I worked as CTO in a company where Node has been chosen and I didn't want 
>>> to trouble the team and continue w/ the same technology. 
>>> 
>>> So I decided to jump in the train and learned JavaScript, node etc. 
>>> It's not an easy language if you want to get benefit of the dynamic part of 
>>> the language. 
>>> 
>>> What I disliked a lot is the fact it's very complicated to refactor the 
>>> code because as you know it's not a typed language so you discover the bug 
>>> while code execution. As a result the app must be fully tested. It's really 
>>> not an option. I used Webstorm which is a great IDE but can do very little 
>>> when you refactor the code or when you need to include modules (like the 
>>> import in java). 
>>> 
>>> Moreover, the eco-system is poor quality compare to java libraries. Often 
>>> libraries are not maintained. I remember my team using ftp client which 
>>> worked great but then the provider changes to ftp over ssl and the library 
>>> didn't support it so we have to choose another one which was not well 
>>> designed. 
>>> 
>>> If you follow this path, I recommend using Koa rather than express.js which 
>>> is the most used library w/ node but Koa is really well designed and more 
>>> recent. (Koa is like ERRest ;-)). We used also MongoDB v4 which is better 
>>> than I thought (and much better than it was in the past). We used Mongoose 
>>> which is like an ORM but as it's a document database it's a bit different. 
>>> Moreover Mongoose "encapsulates" pure JavaScript objets (like EO compare to 
>>> pojo) so we had from time to time to copy the mongoose object into pure 
>>> JavaScript object to use other libraries like lodash (a must have library). 
>>> 
>>> So I have a mixed feeling about this environnement. But as a friend said: 
>>> with Java compiler even a young developer (or bad one) creates a code that 
>>> runs. Not the case with javascript where code can be ugly very easily. 
>>> 
>>> Philippe
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> 
 On 18 Feb 2020, at 20:40, Tim W via Webobjects-dev 
  wrote:
 
 
 Thanks for this Lon.
 
 As I begin contemplating a move from WO -> Cayenne, I’m really 
 appreciating hearing what folks are using from a front-end perspective. 
 Wicket looks like a pretty interesting one and from a familiarity 
 perspective may be the best I’ve seen coming from a WO background.
 
 Since I haven’t made the leap I don’t know how folks are binding various 
 front-end technologies, like angular etc., to a ORM backend. I’m assuming 
 by moving toward web api’s.
 
 From a non-familiarity perspective (and focused more on broadening 
 skillsets), I’m thinking of looking at Node.js to leverage ORM experience 
 but also branch more into front-ends the way the kids are doing it. I 
 don’t expect many from the WO army have gone that direction but curious to 
 hear of any experiences.
 
 Tim
 UCLA GSE
 
> On Feb 14, 2020, at 10:50 AM, Lon Varscsak via Webobjects-dev 
> mailto:webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com>> 
> wrote:
> 
> We've settled on Apache Wicket (apps are being re-written from WO) with 
> Apache Cayenne (EOF-like but more modern).  I love both, I would be sad 
> if I had to use a different toolset.
> 
> On Fri, Feb 14, 2020 at 12:14 AM Jérémy DE ROYER via Webobjects-dev 
> 

Re: Complimentary App Server Choice

[Philippe Rabier via Webobjects-dev]

We considered using Typescript but we faced weird behaviors so we gave up. Too 
much stuff to learn at the same time. And it should help developing your code 
but it doesn't help when you work with external libraries. 
And I remember Benoit Marchant (MontageJS) saying: "if you want to embrace the 
web, you have to learn JavaScript". 

I forgot to mention we use also Vue on the front side which is really good. 
Much simpler to learn than React or Angular.io. 

To be honest, I won't use node for my next adventures. I would consider Go, 
Swift or maybe Kotlin/Java. Or Python if I'm using Google Cloud Functions 
because the code is small so the dynamic language is not a pain (but I never 
try yet so I dunno). But GCF is very appealing. 

Philippe

Sent from my iPhone


> On 19 Feb 2020, at 23:44, Gino Pacitti via Webobjects-dev 
>  wrote:
> 
> Typescript tries to give you a more Java feel to JavaScript  - maybe you 
> could try that? You can use it via npm and cli or in an ide 
> 
> 
> 
>>> On 19 Feb 2020, at 20:12, Philippe Rabier via Webobjects-dev 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>> Hi Tim,
>> 
>> I worked as CTO in a company where Node has been chosen and I didn't want to 
>> trouble the team and continue w/ the same technology. 
>> 
>> So I decided to jump in the train and learned JavaScript, node etc. 
>> It's not an easy language if you want to get benefit of the dynamic part of 
>> the language. 
>> 
>> What I disliked a lot is the fact it's very complicated to refactor the code 
>> because as you know it's not a typed language so you discover the bug while 
>> code execution. As a result the app must be fully tested. It's really not an 
>> option. I used Webstorm which is a great IDE but can do very little when you 
>> refactor the code or when you need to include modules (like the import in 
>> java). 
>> 
>> Moreover, the eco-system is poor quality compare to java libraries. Often 
>> libraries are not maintained. I remember my team using ftp client which 
>> worked great but then the provider changes to ftp over ssl and the library 
>> didn't support it so we have to choose another one which was not well 
>> designed. 
>> 
>> If you follow this path, I recommend using Koa rather than express.js which 
>> is the most used library w/ node but Koa is really well designed and more 
>> recent. (Koa is like ERRest ;-)). We used also MongoDB v4 which is better 
>> than I thought (and much better than it was in the past). We used Mongoose 
>> which is like an ORM but as it's a document database it's a bit different. 
>> Moreover Mongoose "encapsulates" pure JavaScript objets (like EO compare to 
>> pojo) so we had from time to time to copy the mongoose object into pure 
>> JavaScript object to use other libraries like lodash (a must have library). 
>> 
>> So I have a mixed feeling about this environnement. But as a friend said: 
>> with Java compiler even a young developer (or bad one) creates a code that 
>> runs. Not the case with javascript where code can be ugly very easily. 
>> 
>> Philippe
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> 
 On 18 Feb 2020, at 20:40, Tim W via Webobjects-dev 
  wrote:
 
>>> 
>>> Thanks for this Lon.
>>> 
>>> As I begin contemplating a move from WO -> Cayenne, I’m really appreciating 
>>> hearing what folks are using from a front-end perspective. Wicket looks 
>>> like a pretty interesting one and from a familiarity perspective may be the 
>>> best I’ve seen coming from a WO background.
>>> 
>>> Since I haven’t made the leap I don’t know how folks are binding various 
>>> front-end technologies, like angular etc., to a ORM backend. I’m assuming 
>>> by moving toward web api’s.
>>> 
>>> From a non-familiarity perspective (and focused more on broadening 
>>> skillsets), I’m thinking of looking at Node.js to leverage ORM experience 
>>> but also branch more into front-ends the way the kids are doing it. I don’t 
>>> expect many from the WO army have gone that direction but curious to hear 
>>> of any experiences.
>>> 
>>> Tim
>>> UCLA GSE
>>> 
 On Feb 14, 2020, at 10:50 AM, Lon Varscsak via Webobjects-dev 
  wrote:
 
 We've settled on Apache Wicket (apps are being re-written from WO) with 
 Apache Cayenne (EOF-like but more modern).  I love both, I would be sad if 
 I had to use a different toolset.
 
 On Fri, Feb 14, 2020 at 12:14 AM Jérémy DE ROYER via Webobjects-dev 
  wrote:
> Hi
> 
> And about wo components framework ?
> 
> What are you using  with Bootique ?
> 
> Jérémy 
> 
>> Le 13 févr. 2020 à 23:08, Matthew Ness via Webobjects-dev 
>>  a écrit :
>> 
>> 
>> I wouldn't hesitate to recommend Bootique. 
>> 
>> We've had various types of Bootique apps in production for years now to 
>> great success, some with the Cayenne module directly derived from older 
>> WO apps/dbs, some communicating with existing WO apps, others simply 
>> processing tasks.

Re: Complimentary App Server Choice

[Gino Pacitti via Webobjects-dev]

Typescript tries to give you a more Java feel to JavaScript  - maybe you could 
try that? You can use it via npm and cli or in an ide 



> On 19 Feb 2020, at 20:12, Philippe Rabier via Webobjects-dev 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Tim,
> 
> I worked as CTO in a company where Node has been chosen and I didn't want to 
> trouble the team and continue w/ the same technology. 
> 
> So I decided to jump in the train and learned JavaScript, node etc. 
> It's not an easy language if you want to get benefit of the dynamic part of 
> the language. 
> 
> What I disliked a lot is the fact it's very complicated to refactor the code 
> because as you know it's not a typed language so you discover the bug while 
> code execution. As a result the app must be fully tested. It's really not an 
> option. I used Webstorm which is a great IDE but can do very little when you 
> refactor the code or when you need to include modules (like the import in 
> java). 
> 
> Moreover, the eco-system is poor quality compare to java libraries. Often 
> libraries are not maintained. I remember my team using ftp client which 
> worked great but then the provider changes to ftp over ssl and the library 
> didn't support it so we have to choose another one which was not well 
> designed. 
> 
> If you follow this path, I recommend using Koa rather than express.js which 
> is the most used library w/ node but Koa is really well designed and more 
> recent. (Koa is like ERRest ;-)). We used also MongoDB v4 which is better 
> than I thought (and much better than it was in the past). We used Mongoose 
> which is like an ORM but as it's a document database it's a bit different. 
> Moreover Mongoose "encapsulates" pure JavaScript objets (like EO compare to 
> pojo) so we had from time to time to copy the mongoose object into pure 
> JavaScript object to use other libraries like lodash (a must have library). 
> 
> So I have a mixed feeling about this environnement. But as a friend said: 
> with Java compiler even a young developer (or bad one) creates a code that 
> runs. Not the case with javascript where code can be ugly very easily. 
> 
> Philippe
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> 
>>> On 18 Feb 2020, at 20:40, Tim W via Webobjects-dev 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>> 
>> Thanks for this Lon.
>> 
>> As I begin contemplating a move from WO -> Cayenne, I’m really appreciating 
>> hearing what folks are using from a front-end perspective. Wicket looks like 
>> a pretty interesting one and from a familiarity perspective may be the best 
>> I’ve seen coming from a WO background.
>> 
>> Since I haven’t made the leap I don’t know how folks are binding various 
>> front-end technologies, like angular etc., to a ORM backend. I’m assuming by 
>> moving toward web api’s.
>> 
>> From a non-familiarity perspective (and focused more on broadening 
>> skillsets), I’m thinking of looking at Node.js to leverage ORM experience 
>> but also branch more into front-ends the way the kids are doing it. I don’t 
>> expect many from the WO army have gone that direction but curious to hear of 
>> any experiences.
>> 
>> Tim
>> UCLA GSE
>> 
>>> On Feb 14, 2020, at 10:50 AM, Lon Varscsak via Webobjects-dev 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> We've settled on Apache Wicket (apps are being re-written from WO) with 
>>> Apache Cayenne (EOF-like but more modern).  I love both, I would be sad if 
>>> I had to use a different toolset.
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Feb 14, 2020 at 12:14 AM Jérémy DE ROYER via Webobjects-dev 
>>>  wrote:
 Hi
 
 And about wo components framework ?
 
 What are you using  with Bootique ?
 
 Jérémy 
 
> Le 13 févr. 2020 à 23:08, Matthew Ness via Webobjects-dev 
>  a écrit :
> 
> 
> I wouldn't hesitate to recommend Bootique.
> 
> We've had various types of Bootique apps in production for years now to 
> great success, some with the Cayenne module directly derived from older 
> WO apps/dbs, some communicating with existing WO apps, others simply 
> processing tasks.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> --
> Matt
> http://logicsquad.net
> https://www.linkedin.com/company/logic-squad/
> 
> 
>> On Thu, Feb 13, 2020, at 11:25 PM, Andrus Adamchik via Webobjects-dev 
>> wrote:
>> My opinionated take is the following:
>> 
>> * The "official" JavaEE is dead and is now a pure volunteer effort under 
>> https://jakarta.ee/ . The "appserver" concept has almost disappeared and 
>> morphed to something different. All the past market leaders have moved 
>> on to more lightweight solutions, though some still cling to .war 
>> deployment. 
>> 
>> * SpringBoot is the market leader in the Java world. If you are looking 
>> to build a marketable Java developer resume, learn SpringBoot.
>> 
>> * If you need to write apps for your org or your customers, and are not 
>> constrained by the PHBs opinion, use Bootique. It is a better platform 
>> in the 

Re: Complimentary App Server Choice

[Philippe Rabier via Webobjects-dev]

Hi Tim,

I worked as CTO in a company where Node has been chosen and I didn't want to 
trouble the team and continue w/ the same technology. 

So I decided to jump in the train and learned JavaScript, node etc. 
It's not an easy language if you want to get benefit of the dynamic part of the 
language. 

What I disliked a lot is the fact it's very complicated to refactor the code 
because as you know it's not a typed language so you discover the bug while 
code execution. As a result the app must be fully tested. It's really not an 
option. I used Webstorm which is a great IDE but can do very little when you 
refactor the code or when you need to include modules (like the import in 
java). 

Moreover, the eco-system is poor quality compare to java libraries. Often 
libraries are not maintained. I remember my team using ftp client which worked 
great but then the provider changes to ftp over ssl and the library didn't 
support it so we have to choose another one which was not well designed. 

If you follow this path, I recommend using Koa rather than express.js which is 
the most used library w/ node but Koa is really well designed and more recent. 
(Koa is like ERRest ;-)). We used also MongoDB v4 which is better than I 
thought (and much better than it was in the past). We used Mongoose which is 
like an ORM but as it's a document database it's a bit different. Moreover 
Mongoose "encapsulates" pure JavaScript objets (like EO compare to pojo) so we 
had from time to time to copy the mongoose object into pure JavaScript object 
to use other libraries like lodash (a must have library). 

So I have a mixed feeling about this environnement. But as a friend said: with 
Java compiler even a young developer (or bad one) creates a code that runs. Not 
the case with javascript where code can be ugly very easily. 

Philippe

Sent from my iPhone


> On 18 Feb 2020, at 20:40, Tim W via Webobjects-dev 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Thanks for this Lon.
> 
> As I begin contemplating a move from WO -> Cayenne, I’m really appreciating 
> hearing what folks are using from a front-end perspective. Wicket looks like 
> a pretty interesting one and from a familiarity perspective may be the best 
> I’ve seen coming from a WO background.
> 
> Since I haven’t made the leap I don’t know how folks are binding various 
> front-end technologies, like angular etc., to a ORM backend. I’m assuming by 
> moving toward web api’s.
> 
> From a non-familiarity perspective (and focused more on broadening 
> skillsets), I’m thinking of looking at Node.js to leverage ORM experience but 
> also branch more into front-ends the way the kids are doing it. I don’t 
> expect many from the WO army have gone that direction but curious to hear of 
> any experiences.
> 
> Tim
> UCLA GSE
> 
>> On Feb 14, 2020, at 10:50 AM, Lon Varscsak via Webobjects-dev 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> We've settled on Apache Wicket (apps are being re-written from WO) with 
>> Apache Cayenne (EOF-like but more modern).  I love both, I would be sad if I 
>> had to use a different toolset.
>> 
>>> On Fri, Feb 14, 2020 at 12:14 AM Jérémy DE ROYER via Webobjects-dev 
>>>  wrote:
>>> Hi
>>> 
>>> And about wo components framework ?
>>> 
>>> What are you using  with Bootique ?
>>> 
>>> Jérémy 
>>> 
 Le 13 févr. 2020 à 23:08, Matthew Ness via Webobjects-dev 
  a écrit :
 
 
 I wouldn't hesitate to recommend Bootique. 
 
 We've had various types of Bootique apps in production for years now to 
 great success, some with the Cayenne module directly derived from older WO 
 apps/dbs, some communicating with existing WO apps, others simply 
 processing tasks.
 
 
 Regards,
 
 --
 Matt
 http://logicsquad.net
 https://www.linkedin.com/company/logic-squad/
 
 
> On Thu, Feb 13, 2020, at 11:25 PM, Andrus Adamchik via Webobjects-dev 
> wrote:
> My opinionated take is the following:
> 
> * The "official" JavaEE is dead and is now a pure volunteer effort under 
> https://jakarta.ee/ . The "appserver" concept has almost disappeared and 
> morphed to something different. All the past market leaders have moved on 
> to more lightweight solutions, though some still cling to .war 
> deployment. 
> 
> * SpringBoot is the market leader in the Java world. If you are looking 
> to build a marketable Java developer resume, learn SpringBoot.
> 
> * If you need to write apps for your org or your customers, and are not 
> constrained by the PHBs opinion, use Bootique. It is a better platform in 
> the modern appserver-free world. Bootique is "commercially-viable" in a 
> sense that there are hundreds of apps that run in prod for a number of 
> years. But it is still an open source effort supported by community and a 
> mid-sized company (ObjectStyle), so it is sometimes an uphill battle in 
> organizations that are looking to conform to the lowest common 

Re: Complimentary App Server Choice

[Tim W via Webobjects-dev]

Thanks for this Lon.

As I begin contemplating a move from WO -> Cayenne, I’m really appreciating 
hearing what folks are using from a front-end perspective. Wicket looks like a 
pretty interesting one and from a familiarity perspective may be the best I’ve 
seen coming from a WO background.

Since I haven’t made the leap I don’t know how folks are binding various 
front-end technologies, like angular etc., to a ORM backend. I’m assuming by 
moving toward web api’s.

From a non-familiarity perspective (and focused more on broadening skillsets), 
I’m thinking of looking at Node.js to leverage ORM experience but also branch 
more into front-ends the way the kids are doing it. I don’t expect many from 
the WO army have gone that direction but curious to hear of any experiences.

Tim
UCLA GSE

> On Feb 14, 2020, at 10:50 AM, Lon Varscsak via Webobjects-dev 
>  wrote:
> 
> We've settled on Apache Wicket (apps are being re-written from WO) with 
> Apache Cayenne (EOF-like but more modern).  I love both, I would be sad if I 
> had to use a different toolset.
> 
> On Fri, Feb 14, 2020 at 12:14 AM Jérémy DE ROYER via Webobjects-dev 
> mailto:webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com>> 
> wrote:
> Hi
> 
> And about wo components framework ?
> 
> What are you using  with Bootique ?
> 
> Jérémy 
> 
>> Le 13 févr. 2020 à 23:08, Matthew Ness via Webobjects-dev 
>> mailto:webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com>> a 
>> écrit :
>> 
>> 
>> I wouldn't hesitate to recommend Bootique. 
>> 
>> We've had various types of Bootique apps in production for years now to 
>> great success, some with the Cayenne module directly derived from older WO 
>> apps/dbs, some communicating with existing WO apps, others simply processing 
>> tasks.
>> 
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> --
>> Matt
>> http://logicsquad.net 
>> https://www.linkedin.com/company/logic-squad/ 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, Feb 13, 2020, at 11:25 PM, Andrus Adamchik via Webobjects-dev wrote:
>>> My opinionated take is the following:
>>> 
>>> * The "official" JavaEE is dead and is now a pure volunteer effort under 
>>> https://jakarta.ee/  . The "appserver" concept has 
>>> almost disappeared and morphed to something different. All the past market 
>>> leaders have moved on to more lightweight solutions, though some still 
>>> cling to .war deployment. 
>>> 
>>> * SpringBoot is the market leader in the Java world. If you are looking to 
>>> build a marketable Java developer resume, learn SpringBoot.
>>> 
>>> * If you need to write apps for your org or your customers, and are not 
>>> constrained by the PHBs opinion, use Bootique. It is a better platform in 
>>> the modern appserver-free world. Bootique is "commercially-viable" in a 
>>> sense that there are hundreds of apps that run in prod for a number of 
>>> years. But it is still an open source effort supported by community and a 
>>> mid-sized company (ObjectStyle), so it is sometimes an uphill battle in 
>>> organizations that are looking to conform to the lowest common denominator.
>>> 
>>> So you decide :)
>>> 
>>> Andrus
>>> 
>>> 
 On Feb 13, 2020, at 3:06 PM, Gino Pacitti via Webobjects-dev 
 mailto:webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com>> 
 wrote:
 
 Thanks for that… it looks really interesting…
 
 Is it a commercially viable alternative to some of the others like JBoss, 
 Tomcat, Websphere etc..
 
 I would like to add another feather to my bow but not really sure which 
 architecture to devote time to so that I can work on bigger projects in a 
 team...
 
 
 
 
> On 13 Feb 2020, at 11:16, Andrus Adamchik  > wrote:
> 
> We are using Bootique: https://bootique.io/ 
> 
> Just like SpringBoot, its idea is that it is not an "appserver". It gives 
> you a plain Java app with your own "main" method, and a way to assemble 
> various components together (and also modularity, dependency injection, 
> consistent configuration and a large collection of ready-to-use modules). 
> The app can serve web requests, run jobs or do whatever. 
> 
> Unlike SpringBoot, Bootique is much smaller, starts much faster, and 
> doesn't feel like magic. Also all the apps you write are automatically 
> equipped with POSIX CLI.
> 
> Andrus
> 
> 
>> On Feb 11, 2020, at 4:29 PM, Paul Yu via Webobjects-dev 
>> mailto:webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com>> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Spring and it’s ecosystem seems to be pretty powerful.
>> 
>> Paul
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> Please excuse iOS autocomplete 
>> 
>>> On Feb 11, 2020, at 8:06 AM, Gino Pacitti via Webobjects-dev 
>>> >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> hey if any one was to use a different app server configuration other 
>>> than WO what would you choose and why?

Re: Complimentary App Server Choice

[Matthew Ness via Webobjects-dev]

I'll add we still actively develop quite a few WO apps, but to answer your 
question with Bootique/Cayenne we are using various front end frameworks. 
React, Angular, React Native and Flutter now for mobile.

Cheers,

Matt

On Fri, Feb 14, 2020, at 6:14 PM, Jérémy DE ROYER wrote:
> Hi 
> 
> And about wo components framework ?
> 
> What are you using with Bootique ?
> 
> 
> Jérémy 
> 
>> Le 13 févr. 2020 à 23:08, Matthew Ness via Webobjects-dev 
>>  a écrit :
>> 
>> 
>> I wouldn't hesitate to recommend Bootique. 
>> 
>> We've had various types of Bootique apps in production for years now to 
>> great success, some with the Cayenne module directly derived from older WO 
>> apps/dbs, some communicating with existing WO apps, others simply processing 
>> tasks.
>> 
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> --
>> Matt
>> http://logicsquad.net
>> https://www.linkedin.com/company/logic-squad/
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, Feb 13, 2020, at 11:25 PM, Andrus Adamchik via Webobjects-dev wrote:
>>> My opinionated take is the following:
>>> 
>>> * The "official" JavaEE is dead and is now a pure volunteer effort under 
>>> https://jakarta.ee/ . The "appserver" concept has almost disappeared and 
>>> morphed to something different. All the past market leaders have moved on 
>>> to more lightweight solutions, though some still cling to .war deployment. 
>>> 
>>> * SpringBoot is the market leader in the Java world. If you are looking to 
>>> build a marketable Java developer resume, learn SpringBoot.
>>> 
>>> * If you need to write apps for your org or your customers, and are not 
>>> constrained by the PHBs opinion, use Bootique. It is a better platform in 
>>> the modern appserver-free world. Bootique is "commercially-viable" in a 
>>> sense that there are hundreds of apps that run in prod for a number of 
>>> years. But it is still an open source effort supported by community and a 
>>> mid-sized company (ObjectStyle), so it is sometimes an uphill battle in 
>>> organizations that are looking to conform to the lowest common denominator.
>>> 
>>> So you decide :)
>>> 
>>> Andrus
>>> 
>>> 
 On Feb 13, 2020, at 3:06 PM, Gino Pacitti via Webobjects-dev 
  wrote:
 
 Thanks for that… it looks really interesting…
 
 Is it a commercially viable alternative to some of the others like JBoss, 
 Tomcat, Websphere etc..
 
 I would like to add another feather to my bow but not really sure which 
 architecture to devote time to so that I can work on bigger projects in a 
 team...
 
 
 
 
> On 13 Feb 2020, at 11:16, Andrus Adamchik  wrote:
> 
> We are using Bootique: https://bootique.io/
> 
> Just like SpringBoot, its idea is that it is not an "appserver". It gives 
> you a plain Java app with your own "main" method, and a way to assemble 
> various components together (and also modularity, dependency injection, 
> consistent configuration and a large collection of ready-to-use modules). 
> The app can serve web requests, run jobs or do whatever. 
> 
> Unlike SpringBoot, Bootique is much smaller, starts much faster, and 
> doesn't feel like magic. Also all the apps you write are automatically 
> equipped with POSIX CLI.
> 
> Andrus
> 
> 
>> On Feb 11, 2020, at 4:29 PM, Paul Yu via Webobjects-dev 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Spring and it’s ecosystem seems to be pretty powerful.
>> 
>> Paul
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> Please excuse iOS autocomplete 
>> 
>>> On Feb 11, 2020, at 8:06 AM, Gino Pacitti via Webobjects-dev 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>>  hey if any one was to use a different app server configuration other 
>>> than WO what would you choose and why?
>>> 
>>> What are most companies requesting these days in a Java system?
> 
 
 
>> 
>> 
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--
Matt
http://logicsquad.net
https://www.linkedin.com/company/logic-squad/

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Re: Complimentary App Server Choice

[Lon Varscsak via Webobjects-dev]

We also use bootique...for war-less applications.  I've kind of built all
the stuff like WebObjects (I have a monitor a taskd, etc)...not public
domain yet though :/

On Fri, Feb 14, 2020 at 11:50 AM Lon Varscsak 
wrote:

> We've settled on Apache Wicket (apps are being re-written from WO) with
> Apache Cayenne (EOF-like but more modern).  I love both, I would be sad if
> I had to use a different toolset.
>
> On Fri, Feb 14, 2020 at 12:14 AM Jérémy DE ROYER via Webobjects-dev <
> webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> And about wo components framework ?
>>
>> What are you using  with Bootique ?
>>
>> Jérémy
>>
>> Le 13 févr. 2020 à 23:08, Matthew Ness via Webobjects-dev <
>> webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com> a écrit :
>>
>> 
>> I wouldn't hesitate to recommend Bootique.
>>
>> We've had various types of Bootique apps in production for years now to
>> great success, some with the Cayenne module directly derived from older WO
>> apps/dbs, some communicating with existing WO apps, others simply
>> processing tasks.
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> --
>> Matt
>> http://logicsquad.net
>> https://www.linkedin.com/company/logic-squad/
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 13, 2020, at 11:25 PM, Andrus Adamchik via Webobjects-dev
>> wrote:
>>
>> My opinionated take is the following:
>>
>> * The "official" JavaEE is dead and is now a pure volunteer effort under
>> https://jakarta.ee/ . The "appserver" concept has almost disappeared and
>> morphed to something different. All the past market leaders have moved on
>> to more lightweight solutions, though some still cling to .war deployment.
>>
>> * SpringBoot is the market leader in the Java world. If you are looking
>> to build a marketable Java developer resume, learn SpringBoot.
>>
>> * If you need to write apps for your org or your customers, and are not
>> constrained by the PHBs opinion, use Bootique. It is a better platform in
>> the modern appserver-free world. Bootique is "commercially-viable" in a
>> sense that there are hundreds of apps that run in prod for a number of
>> years. But it is still an open source effort supported by community and a
>> mid-sized company (ObjectStyle), so it is sometimes an uphill battle in
>> organizations that are looking to conform to the lowest common denominator.
>>
>> So you decide :)
>>
>> Andrus
>>
>>
>> On Feb 13, 2020, at 3:06 PM, Gino Pacitti via Webobjects-dev <
>> webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for that… it looks really interesting…
>>
>> Is it a commercially viable alternative to some of the others like JBoss,
>> Tomcat, Websphere etc..
>>
>> I would like to add another feather to my bow but not really sure which
>> architecture to devote time to so that I can work on bigger projects in a
>> team...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 13 Feb 2020, at 11:16, Andrus Adamchik  wrote:
>>
>> We are using Bootique: https://bootique.io/
>>
>> Just like SpringBoot, its idea is that it is not an "appserver". It gives
>> you a plain Java app with your own "main" method, and a way to assemble
>> various components together (and also modularity, dependency injection,
>> consistent configuration and a large collection of ready-to-use modules).
>> The app can serve web requests, run jobs or do whatever.
>>
>> Unlike SpringBoot, Bootique is much smaller, starts much faster, and
>> doesn't feel like magic. Also all the apps you write are automatically
>> equipped with POSIX CLI.
>>
>> Andrus
>>
>>
>> On Feb 11, 2020, at 4:29 PM, Paul Yu via Webobjects-dev <
>> webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com> wrote:
>>
>> Spring and it’s ecosystem seems to be pretty powerful.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> Please excuse iOS autocomplete
>>
>> On Feb 11, 2020, at 8:06 AM, Gino Pacitti via Webobjects-dev <
>> webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com> wrote:
>>
>> hey if any one was to use a different app server configuration other
>> than WO what would you choose and why?
>>
>> What are most companies requesting these days in a Java system?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
>> Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>>
>> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/jeremy.deroyer%40ingencys.net
>>
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>>
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>>
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>>
>
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Re: Complimentary App Server Choice

[Lon Varscsak via Webobjects-dev]

We've settled on Apache Wicket (apps are being re-written from WO) with
Apache Cayenne (EOF-like but more modern).  I love both, I would be sad if
I had to use a different toolset.

On Fri, Feb 14, 2020 at 12:14 AM Jérémy DE ROYER via Webobjects-dev <
webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com> wrote:

> Hi
>
> And about wo components framework ?
>
> What are you using  with Bootique ?
>
> Jérémy
>
> Le 13 févr. 2020 à 23:08, Matthew Ness via Webobjects-dev <
> webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com> a écrit :
>
> 
> I wouldn't hesitate to recommend Bootique.
>
> We've had various types of Bootique apps in production for years now to
> great success, some with the Cayenne module directly derived from older WO
> apps/dbs, some communicating with existing WO apps, others simply
> processing tasks.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> --
> Matt
> http://logicsquad.net
> https://www.linkedin.com/company/logic-squad/
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 13, 2020, at 11:25 PM, Andrus Adamchik via Webobjects-dev
> wrote:
>
> My opinionated take is the following:
>
> * The "official" JavaEE is dead and is now a pure volunteer effort under
> https://jakarta.ee/ . The "appserver" concept has almost disappeared and
> morphed to something different. All the past market leaders have moved on
> to more lightweight solutions, though some still cling to .war deployment.
>
> * SpringBoot is the market leader in the Java world. If you are looking to
> build a marketable Java developer resume, learn SpringBoot.
>
> * If you need to write apps for your org or your customers, and are not
> constrained by the PHBs opinion, use Bootique. It is a better platform in
> the modern appserver-free world. Bootique is "commercially-viable" in a
> sense that there are hundreds of apps that run in prod for a number of
> years. But it is still an open source effort supported by community and a
> mid-sized company (ObjectStyle), so it is sometimes an uphill battle in
> organizations that are looking to conform to the lowest common denominator.
>
> So you decide :)
>
> Andrus
>
>
> On Feb 13, 2020, at 3:06 PM, Gino Pacitti via Webobjects-dev <
> webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks for that… it looks really interesting…
>
> Is it a commercially viable alternative to some of the others like JBoss,
> Tomcat, Websphere etc..
>
> I would like to add another feather to my bow but not really sure which
> architecture to devote time to so that I can work on bigger projects in a
> team...
>
>
>
>
> On 13 Feb 2020, at 11:16, Andrus Adamchik  wrote:
>
> We are using Bootique: https://bootique.io/
>
> Just like SpringBoot, its idea is that it is not an "appserver". It gives
> you a plain Java app with your own "main" method, and a way to assemble
> various components together (and also modularity, dependency injection,
> consistent configuration and a large collection of ready-to-use modules).
> The app can serve web requests, run jobs or do whatever.
>
> Unlike SpringBoot, Bootique is much smaller, starts much faster, and
> doesn't feel like magic. Also all the apps you write are automatically
> equipped with POSIX CLI.
>
> Andrus
>
>
> On Feb 11, 2020, at 4:29 PM, Paul Yu via Webobjects-dev <
> webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com> wrote:
>
> Spring and it’s ecosystem seems to be pretty powerful.
>
> Paul
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> Please excuse iOS autocomplete
>
> On Feb 11, 2020, at 8:06 AM, Gino Pacitti via Webobjects-dev <
> webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com> wrote:
>
> hey if any one was to use a different app server configuration other than
> WO what would you choose and why?
>
> What are most companies requesting these days in a Java system?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
> Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>
> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/jeremy.deroyer%40ingencys.net
>
> This email sent to jeremy.dero...@ingencys.net
>
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Re: Complimentary App Server Choice

[Jérémy DE ROYER via Webobjects-dev]

Hi

And about wo components framework ?

What are you using  with Bootique ?

Jérémy

Le 13 févr. 2020 à 23:08, Matthew Ness via Webobjects-dev 
 a écrit :


I wouldn't hesitate to recommend Bootique.

We've had various types of Bootique apps in production for years now to great 
success, some with the Cayenne module directly derived from older WO apps/dbs, 
some communicating with existing WO apps, others simply processing tasks.


Regards,

--
Matt
http://logicsquad.net
https://www.linkedin.com/company/logic-squad/


On Thu, Feb 13, 2020, at 11:25 PM, Andrus Adamchik via Webobjects-dev wrote:
My opinionated take is the following:

* The "official" JavaEE is dead and is now a pure volunteer effort under 
https://jakarta.ee/ . The "appserver" concept has almost disappeared and 
morphed to something different. All the past market leaders have moved on to 
more lightweight solutions, though some still cling to .war deployment.

* SpringBoot is the market leader in the Java world. If you are looking to 
build a marketable Java developer resume, learn SpringBoot.

* If you need to write apps for your org or your customers, and are not 
constrained by the PHBs opinion, use Bootique. It is a better platform in the 
modern appserver-free world. Bootique is "commercially-viable" in a sense that 
there are hundreds of apps that run in prod for a number of years. But it is 
still an open source effort supported by community and a mid-sized company 
(ObjectStyle), so it is sometimes an uphill battle in organizations that are 
looking to conform to the lowest common denominator.

So you decide :)

Andrus


On Feb 13, 2020, at 3:06 PM, Gino Pacitti via Webobjects-dev 
mailto:webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com>> wrote:

Thanks for that… it looks really interesting…

Is it a commercially viable alternative to some of the others like JBoss, 
Tomcat, Websphere etc..

I would like to add another feather to my bow but not really sure which 
architecture to devote time to so that I can work on bigger projects in a 
team...




On 13 Feb 2020, at 11:16, Andrus Adamchik 
mailto:and...@objectstyle.org>> wrote:

We are using Bootique: https://bootique.io/

Just like SpringBoot, its idea is that it is not an "appserver". It gives you a 
plain Java app with your own "main" method, and a way to assemble various 
components together (and also modularity, dependency injection, consistent 
configuration and a large collection of ready-to-use modules). The app can 
serve web requests, run jobs or do whatever.

Unlike SpringBoot, Bootique is much smaller, starts much faster, and doesn't 
feel like magic. Also all the apps you write are automatically equipped with 
POSIX CLI.

Andrus


On Feb 11, 2020, at 4:29 PM, Paul Yu via Webobjects-dev 
mailto:webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com>> wrote:

Spring and it’s ecosystem seems to be pretty powerful.

Paul

Sent from my iPhone
Please excuse iOS autocomplete

On Feb 11, 2020, at 8:06 AM, Gino Pacitti via Webobjects-dev 
mailto:webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com>> wrote:

hey if any one was to use a different app server configuration other than WO 
what would you choose and why?

What are most companies requesting these days in a Java system?





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Re: Complimentary App Server Choice

[Tony Giaccone via Webobjects-dev]

I can second the vote for bootique. We built two micro-services using bootique 
and I couldn’t be happier with their performance. One has been running since 
December of 2018 the other since August of 2019.


We built apps that use Bootique with  jetty, Jersey and Cayenne. The apps both 
generate a swagger spec which gets deployed to an internal repo so our internal 
customers can build client code.

 We deploy to GCP and Kubernetes. Connecting to a gcp instance of Postgres. We 
build using maven and drone.  Before you can merge a PR the unit and 
integration tests must succeed. The creation of a PR pushes the build to dev 
and staging. We deploy to production by creating a release.

Works like a charm. We had some problems with connection pooling but since we 
migrated to hikari that problem is gone.

It’s industrial strength code. And the user community is great at answering 
questions.


Tony Giaccone


> On Feb 13, 2020, at 5:08 PM, Matthew Ness via Webobjects-dev 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> I wouldn't hesitate to recommend Bootique. 
> 
> We've had various types of Bootique apps in production for years now to great 
> success, some with the Cayenne module directly derived from older WO 
> apps/dbs, some communicating with existing WO apps, others simply processing 
> tasks.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> --
> Matt
> http://logicsquad.net
> https://www.linkedin.com/company/logic-squad/
> 
> 
>> On Thu, Feb 13, 2020, at 11:25 PM, Andrus Adamchik via Webobjects-dev wrote:
>> My opinionated take is the following:
>> 
>> * The "official" JavaEE is dead and is now a pure volunteer effort under 
>> https://jakarta.ee/ . The "appserver" concept has almost disappeared and 
>> morphed to something different. All the past market leaders have moved on to 
>> more lightweight solutions, though some still cling to .war deployment. 
>> 
>> * SpringBoot is the market leader in the Java world. If you are looking to 
>> build a marketable Java developer resume, learn SpringBoot.
>> 
>> * If you need to write apps for your org or your customers, and are not 
>> constrained by the PHBs opinion, use Bootique. It is a better platform in 
>> the modern appserver-free world. Bootique is "commercially-viable" in a 
>> sense that there are hundreds of apps that run in prod for a number of 
>> years. But it is still an open source effort supported by community and a 
>> mid-sized company (ObjectStyle), so it is sometimes an uphill battle in 
>> organizations that are looking to conform to the lowest common denominator.
>> 
>> So you decide :)
>> 
>> Andrus
>> 
>> 
>>> On Feb 13, 2020, at 3:06 PM, Gino Pacitti via Webobjects-dev 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Thanks for that… it looks really interesting…
>>> 
>>> Is it a commercially viable alternative to some of the others like JBoss, 
>>> Tomcat, Websphere etc..
>>> 
>>> I would like to add another feather to my bow but not really sure which 
>>> architecture to devote time to so that I can work on bigger projects in a 
>>> team...
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On 13 Feb 2020, at 11:16, Andrus Adamchik  wrote:
 
 We are using Bootique: https://bootique.io/
 
 Just like SpringBoot, its idea is that it is not an "appserver". It gives 
 you a plain Java app with your own "main" method, and a way to assemble 
 various components together (and also modularity, dependency injection, 
 consistent configuration and a large collection of ready-to-use modules). 
 The app can serve web requests, run jobs or do whatever. 
 
 Unlike SpringBoot, Bootique is much smaller, starts much faster, and 
 doesn't feel like magic. Also all the apps you write are automatically 
 equipped with POSIX CLI.
 
 Andrus
 
 
> On Feb 11, 2020, at 4:29 PM, Paul Yu via Webobjects-dev 
>  wrote:
> 
> Spring and it’s ecosystem seems to be pretty powerful.
> 
> Paul
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> Please excuse iOS autocomplete 
> 
>> On Feb 11, 2020, at 8:06 AM, Gino Pacitti via Webobjects-dev 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> hey if any one was to use a different app server configuration other 
>> than WO what would you choose and why?
>> 
>> What are most companies requesting these days in a Java system?
 
 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
> 
> 
> ___
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Re: Complimentary App Server Choice

[Matthew Ness via Webobjects-dev]

I wouldn't hesitate to recommend Bootique. 

We've had various types of Bootique apps in production for years now to great 
success, some with the Cayenne module directly derived from older WO apps/dbs, 
some communicating with existing WO apps, others simply processing tasks.


Regards,

--
Matt
http://logicsquad.net
https://www.linkedin.com/company/logic-squad/


On Thu, Feb 13, 2020, at 11:25 PM, Andrus Adamchik via Webobjects-dev wrote:
> My opinionated take is the following:
> 
> * The "official" JavaEE is dead and is now a pure volunteer effort under 
> https://jakarta.ee/ . The "appserver" concept has almost disappeared and 
> morphed to something different. All the past market leaders have moved on to 
> more lightweight solutions, though some still cling to .war deployment. 
> 
> * SpringBoot is the market leader in the Java world. If you are looking to 
> build a marketable Java developer resume, learn SpringBoot.
> 
> * If you need to write apps for your org or your customers, and are not 
> constrained by the PHBs opinion, use Bootique. It is a better platform in the 
> modern appserver-free world. Bootique is "commercially-viable" in a sense 
> that there are hundreds of apps that run in prod for a number of years. But 
> it is still an open source effort supported by community and a mid-sized 
> company (ObjectStyle), so it is sometimes an uphill battle in organizations 
> that are looking to conform to the lowest common denominator.
> 
> So you decide :)
> 
> Andrus
> 
> 
>> On Feb 13, 2020, at 3:06 PM, Gino Pacitti via Webobjects-dev 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks for that… it looks really interesting…
>> 
>> Is it a commercially viable alternative to some of the others like JBoss, 
>> Tomcat, Websphere etc..
>> 
>> I would like to add another feather to my bow but not really sure which 
>> architecture to devote time to so that I can work on bigger projects in a 
>> team...
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 13 Feb 2020, at 11:16, Andrus Adamchik  wrote:
>>> 
>>> We are using Bootique: https://bootique.io/
>>> 
>>> Just like SpringBoot, its idea is that it is not an "appserver". It gives 
>>> you a plain Java app with your own "main" method, and a way to assemble 
>>> various components together (and also modularity, dependency injection, 
>>> consistent configuration and a large collection of ready-to-use modules). 
>>> The app can serve web requests, run jobs or do whatever. 
>>> 
>>> Unlike SpringBoot, Bootique is much smaller, starts much faster, and 
>>> doesn't feel like magic. Also all the apps you write are automatically 
>>> equipped with POSIX CLI.
>>> 
>>> Andrus
>>> 
>>> 
 On Feb 11, 2020, at 4:29 PM, Paul Yu via Webobjects-dev 
  wrote:
 
 Spring and it’s ecosystem seems to be pretty powerful.
 
 Paul
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 Please excuse iOS autocomplete 
 
> On Feb 11, 2020, at 8:06 AM, Gino Pacitti via Webobjects-dev 
>  wrote:
> 
>  hey if any one was to use a different app server configuration other 
> than WO what would you choose and why?
> 
> What are most companies requesting these days in a Java system?
>>> 
>> 
>> 

 ___
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Re: Complimentary App Server Choice

[gndgn via Webobjects-dev]

Made my day, thanks! 藍



> Am 13.02.2020 um 13:30 schrieb Gino Pacitti via Webobjects-dev 
> :
> 
> LOL!!
> 
> 
> 
>> On 13 Feb 2020, at 12:29, Andrus Adamchik > > wrote:
>> 
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointy-haired_Boss 
>>  
>> 
>>> On Feb 13, 2020, at 3:28 PM, Gino Pacitti via Webobjects-dev 
>>> mailto:webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com>> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Thank Andrus for you take… really good write up.
>>> 
>>> And what is PHBs?
>>> 
>>> Gibi
>>> 
 On 13 Feb 2020, at 12:25, Andrus Adamchik >>> > wrote:
 
 My opinionated take is the following:
 
 * The "official" JavaEE is dead and is now a pure volunteer effort under 
 https://jakarta.ee/  . The "appserver" concept has 
 almost disappeared and morphed to something different. All the past market 
 leaders have moved on to more lightweight solutions, though some still 
 cling to .war deployment. 
 
 * SpringBoot is the market leader in the Java world. If you are looking to 
 build a marketable Java developer resume, learn SpringBoot.
 
 * If you need to write apps for your org or your customers, and are not 
 constrained by the PHBs opinion, use Bootique. It is a better platform in 
 the modern appserver-free world. Bootique is "commercially-viable" in a 
 sense that there are hundreds of apps that run in prod for a number of 
 years. But it is still an open source effort supported by community and a 
 mid-sized company (ObjectStyle), so it is sometimes an uphill battle in 
 organizations that are looking to conform to the lowest common denominator.
 
 So you decide :)
 
 Andrus
 
 
> On Feb 13, 2020, at 3:06 PM, Gino Pacitti via Webobjects-dev 
> mailto:webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com>> 
> wrote:
> 
> Thanks for that… it looks really interesting…
> 
> Is it a commercially viable alternative to some of the others like JBoss, 
> Tomcat, Websphere etc..
> 
> I would like to add another feather to my bow but not really sure which 
> architecture to devote time to so that I can work on bigger projects in a 
> team...
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 13 Feb 2020, at 11:16, Andrus Adamchik > > wrote:
>> 
>> We are using Bootique: https://bootique.io/ 
>> 
>> Just like SpringBoot, its idea is that it is not an "appserver". It 
>> gives you a plain Java app with your own "main" method, and a way to 
>> assemble various components together (and also modularity, dependency 
>> injection, consistent configuration and a large collection of 
>> ready-to-use modules). The app can serve web requests, run jobs or do 
>> whatever. 
>> 
>> Unlike SpringBoot, Bootique is much smaller, starts much faster, and 
>> doesn't feel like magic. Also all the apps you write are automatically 
>> equipped with POSIX CLI.
>> 
>> Andrus
>> 
>> 
>>> On Feb 11, 2020, at 4:29 PM, Paul Yu via Webobjects-dev 
>>> >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Spring and it’s ecosystem seems to be pretty powerful.
>>> 
>>> Paul
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> Please excuse iOS autocomplete 
>>> 
 On Feb 11, 2020, at 8:06 AM, Gino Pacitti via Webobjects-dev 
 >>> > wrote:
 
 hey if any one was to use a different app server configuration other 
 than WO what would you choose and why?
 
 What are most companies requesting these days in a Java system?
>> 
> 
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Re: Complimentary App Server Choice

[Gino Pacitti via Webobjects-dev]

LOL!!



> On 13 Feb 2020, at 12:29, Andrus Adamchik  wrote:
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointy-haired_Boss 
>  
> 
>> On Feb 13, 2020, at 3:28 PM, Gino Pacitti via Webobjects-dev 
>> mailto:webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com>> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Thank Andrus for you take… really good write up.
>> 
>> And what is PHBs?
>> 
>> Gibi
>> 
>>> On 13 Feb 2020, at 12:25, Andrus Adamchik >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> My opinionated take is the following:
>>> 
>>> * The "official" JavaEE is dead and is now a pure volunteer effort under 
>>> https://jakarta.ee/  . The "appserver" concept has 
>>> almost disappeared and morphed to something different. All the past market 
>>> leaders have moved on to more lightweight solutions, though some still 
>>> cling to .war deployment. 
>>> 
>>> * SpringBoot is the market leader in the Java world. If you are looking to 
>>> build a marketable Java developer resume, learn SpringBoot.
>>> 
>>> * If you need to write apps for your org or your customers, and are not 
>>> constrained by the PHBs opinion, use Bootique. It is a better platform in 
>>> the modern appserver-free world. Bootique is "commercially-viable" in a 
>>> sense that there are hundreds of apps that run in prod for a number of 
>>> years. But it is still an open source effort supported by community and a 
>>> mid-sized company (ObjectStyle), so it is sometimes an uphill battle in 
>>> organizations that are looking to conform to the lowest common denominator.
>>> 
>>> So you decide :)
>>> 
>>> Andrus
>>> 
>>> 
 On Feb 13, 2020, at 3:06 PM, Gino Pacitti via Webobjects-dev 
 mailto:webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com>> 
 wrote:
 
 Thanks for that… it looks really interesting…
 
 Is it a commercially viable alternative to some of the others like JBoss, 
 Tomcat, Websphere etc..
 
 I would like to add another feather to my bow but not really sure which 
 architecture to devote time to so that I can work on bigger projects in a 
 team...
 
 
 
 
> On 13 Feb 2020, at 11:16, Andrus Adamchik  > wrote:
> 
> We are using Bootique: https://bootique.io/ 
> 
> Just like SpringBoot, its idea is that it is not an "appserver". It gives 
> you a plain Java app with your own "main" method, and a way to assemble 
> various components together (and also modularity, dependency injection, 
> consistent configuration and a large collection of ready-to-use modules). 
> The app can serve web requests, run jobs or do whatever. 
> 
> Unlike SpringBoot, Bootique is much smaller, starts much faster, and 
> doesn't feel like magic. Also all the apps you write are automatically 
> equipped with POSIX CLI.
> 
> Andrus
> 
> 
>> On Feb 11, 2020, at 4:29 PM, Paul Yu via Webobjects-dev 
>> mailto:webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com>> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Spring and it’s ecosystem seems to be pretty powerful.
>> 
>> Paul
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> Please excuse iOS autocomplete 
>> 
>>> On Feb 11, 2020, at 8:06 AM, Gino Pacitti via Webobjects-dev 
>>> >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> hey if any one was to use a different app server configuration other 
>>> than WO what would you choose and why?
>>> 
>>> What are most companies requesting these days in a Java system?
> 
 
 ___
 Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
 Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com 
 )
 Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
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 This email sent to and...@objectstyle.org 
>>> 
>> 
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>> )
>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
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>>  
>> 
>> 
>> This email sent to and...@objectstyle.org
> 

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Re: Complimentary App Server Choice

[Andrus Adamchik via Webobjects-dev]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointy-haired_Boss 
 

> On Feb 13, 2020, at 3:28 PM, Gino Pacitti via Webobjects-dev 
>  wrote:
> 
> Thank Andrus for you take… really good write up.
> 
> And what is PHBs?
> 
> Gibi
> 
>> On 13 Feb 2020, at 12:25, Andrus Adamchik > > wrote:
>> 
>> My opinionated take is the following:
>> 
>> * The "official" JavaEE is dead and is now a pure volunteer effort under 
>> https://jakarta.ee/  . The "appserver" concept has 
>> almost disappeared and morphed to something different. All the past market 
>> leaders have moved on to more lightweight solutions, though some still cling 
>> to .war deployment. 
>> 
>> * SpringBoot is the market leader in the Java world. If you are looking to 
>> build a marketable Java developer resume, learn SpringBoot.
>> 
>> * If you need to write apps for your org or your customers, and are not 
>> constrained by the PHBs opinion, use Bootique. It is a better platform in 
>> the modern appserver-free world. Bootique is "commercially-viable" in a 
>> sense that there are hundreds of apps that run in prod for a number of 
>> years. But it is still an open source effort supported by community and a 
>> mid-sized company (ObjectStyle), so it is sometimes an uphill battle in 
>> organizations that are looking to conform to the lowest common denominator.
>> 
>> So you decide :)
>> 
>> Andrus
>> 
>> 
>>> On Feb 13, 2020, at 3:06 PM, Gino Pacitti via Webobjects-dev 
>>> mailto:webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com>> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Thanks for that… it looks really interesting…
>>> 
>>> Is it a commercially viable alternative to some of the others like JBoss, 
>>> Tomcat, Websphere etc..
>>> 
>>> I would like to add another feather to my bow but not really sure which 
>>> architecture to devote time to so that I can work on bigger projects in a 
>>> team...
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On 13 Feb 2020, at 11:16, Andrus Adamchik >>> > wrote:
 
 We are using Bootique: https://bootique.io/ 
 
 Just like SpringBoot, its idea is that it is not an "appserver". It gives 
 you a plain Java app with your own "main" method, and a way to assemble 
 various components together (and also modularity, dependency injection, 
 consistent configuration and a large collection of ready-to-use modules). 
 The app can serve web requests, run jobs or do whatever. 
 
 Unlike SpringBoot, Bootique is much smaller, starts much faster, and 
 doesn't feel like magic. Also all the apps you write are automatically 
 equipped with POSIX CLI.
 
 Andrus
 
 
> On Feb 11, 2020, at 4:29 PM, Paul Yu via Webobjects-dev 
> mailto:webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com>> 
> wrote:
> 
> Spring and it’s ecosystem seems to be pretty powerful.
> 
> Paul
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> Please excuse iOS autocomplete 
> 
>> On Feb 11, 2020, at 8:06 AM, Gino Pacitti via Webobjects-dev 
>> mailto:webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com>> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> hey if any one was to use a different app server configuration other 
>> than WO what would you choose and why?
>> 
>> What are most companies requesting these days in a Java system?
 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com 
>>> )
>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>>> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/andrus%40objectstyle.org
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> This email sent to and...@objectstyle.org 
>> 
> 
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Re: Complimentary App Server Choice

[Gino Pacitti via Webobjects-dev]

Thank Andrus for you take… really good write up.

And what is PHBs?

Gibi

> On 13 Feb 2020, at 12:25, Andrus Adamchik  wrote:
> 
> My opinionated take is the following:
> 
> * The "official" JavaEE is dead and is now a pure volunteer effort under 
> https://jakarta.ee/  . The "appserver" concept has 
> almost disappeared and morphed to something different. All the past market 
> leaders have moved on to more lightweight solutions, though some still cling 
> to .war deployment. 
> 
> * SpringBoot is the market leader in the Java world. If you are looking to 
> build a marketable Java developer resume, learn SpringBoot.
> 
> * If you need to write apps for your org or your customers, and are not 
> constrained by the PHBs opinion, use Bootique. It is a better platform in the 
> modern appserver-free world. Bootique is "commercially-viable" in a sense 
> that there are hundreds of apps that run in prod for a number of years. But 
> it is still an open source effort supported by community and a mid-sized 
> company (ObjectStyle), so it is sometimes an uphill battle in organizations 
> that are looking to conform to the lowest common denominator.
> 
> So you decide :)
> 
> Andrus
> 
> 
>> On Feb 13, 2020, at 3:06 PM, Gino Pacitti via Webobjects-dev 
>> mailto:webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com>> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks for that… it looks really interesting…
>> 
>> Is it a commercially viable alternative to some of the others like JBoss, 
>> Tomcat, Websphere etc..
>> 
>> I would like to add another feather to my bow but not really sure which 
>> architecture to devote time to so that I can work on bigger projects in a 
>> team...
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 13 Feb 2020, at 11:16, Andrus Adamchik >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> We are using Bootique: https://bootique.io/ 
>>> 
>>> Just like SpringBoot, its idea is that it is not an "appserver". It gives 
>>> you a plain Java app with your own "main" method, and a way to assemble 
>>> various components together (and also modularity, dependency injection, 
>>> consistent configuration and a large collection of ready-to-use modules). 
>>> The app can serve web requests, run jobs or do whatever. 
>>> 
>>> Unlike SpringBoot, Bootique is much smaller, starts much faster, and 
>>> doesn't feel like magic. Also all the apps you write are automatically 
>>> equipped with POSIX CLI.
>>> 
>>> Andrus
>>> 
>>> 
 On Feb 11, 2020, at 4:29 PM, Paul Yu via Webobjects-dev 
 mailto:webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com>> 
 wrote:
 
 Spring and it’s ecosystem seems to be pretty powerful.
 
 Paul
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 Please excuse iOS autocomplete 
 
> On Feb 11, 2020, at 8:06 AM, Gino Pacitti via Webobjects-dev 
> mailto:webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com>> 
> wrote:
> 
> hey if any one was to use a different app server configuration other 
> than WO what would you choose and why?
> 
> What are most companies requesting these days in a Java system?
>>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
>> Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com 
>> )
>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/andrus%40objectstyle.org
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> This email sent to and...@objectstyle.org
> 

 ___
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Re: Complimentary App Server Choice

[Andrus Adamchik via Webobjects-dev]

My opinionated take is the following:

* The "official" JavaEE is dead and is now a pure volunteer effort under 
https://jakarta.ee/  . The "appserver" concept has almost 
disappeared and morphed to something different. All the past market leaders 
have moved on to more lightweight solutions, though some still cling to .war 
deployment. 

* SpringBoot is the market leader in the Java world. If you are looking to 
build a marketable Java developer resume, learn SpringBoot.

* If you need to write apps for your org or your customers, and are not 
constrained by the PHBs opinion, use Bootique. It is a better platform in the 
modern appserver-free world. Bootique is "commercially-viable" in a sense that 
there are hundreds of apps that run in prod for a number of years. But it is 
still an open source effort supported by community and a mid-sized company 
(ObjectStyle), so it is sometimes an uphill battle in organizations that are 
looking to conform to the lowest common denominator.

So you decide :)

Andrus


> On Feb 13, 2020, at 3:06 PM, Gino Pacitti via Webobjects-dev 
>  wrote:
> 
> Thanks for that… it looks really interesting…
> 
> Is it a commercially viable alternative to some of the others like JBoss, 
> Tomcat, Websphere etc..
> 
> I would like to add another feather to my bow but not really sure which 
> architecture to devote time to so that I can work on bigger projects in a 
> team...
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 13 Feb 2020, at 11:16, Andrus Adamchik > > wrote:
>> 
>> We are using Bootique: https://bootique.io/ 
>> 
>> Just like SpringBoot, its idea is that it is not an "appserver". It gives 
>> you a plain Java app with your own "main" method, and a way to assemble 
>> various components together (and also modularity, dependency injection, 
>> consistent configuration and a large collection of ready-to-use modules). 
>> The app can serve web requests, run jobs or do whatever. 
>> 
>> Unlike SpringBoot, Bootique is much smaller, starts much faster, and doesn't 
>> feel like magic. Also all the apps you write are automatically equipped with 
>> POSIX CLI.
>> 
>> Andrus
>> 
>> 
>>> On Feb 11, 2020, at 4:29 PM, Paul Yu via Webobjects-dev 
>>> mailto:webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com>> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Spring and it’s ecosystem seems to be pretty powerful.
>>> 
>>> Paul
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> Please excuse iOS autocomplete 
>>> 
 On Feb 11, 2020, at 8:06 AM, Gino Pacitti via Webobjects-dev 
 mailto:webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com>> 
 wrote:
 
 hey if any one was to use a different app server configuration other than 
 WO what would you choose and why?
 
 What are most companies requesting these days in a Java system?
>> 
> 
> ___
> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
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Re: Complimentary App Server Choice

[Gino Pacitti via Webobjects-dev]

Thanks for that… it looks really interesting…

Is it a commercially viable alternative to some of the others like JBoss, 
Tomcat, Websphere etc..

I would like to add another feather to my bow but not really sure which 
architecture to devote time to so that I can work on bigger projects in a 
team...




> On 13 Feb 2020, at 11:16, Andrus Adamchik  wrote:
> 
> We are using Bootique: https://bootique.io/ 
> 
> Just like SpringBoot, its idea is that it is not an "appserver". It gives you 
> a plain Java app with your own "main" method, and a way to assemble various 
> components together (and also modularity, dependency injection, consistent 
> configuration and a large collection of ready-to-use modules). The app can 
> serve web requests, run jobs or do whatever. 
> 
> Unlike SpringBoot, Bootique is much smaller, starts much faster, and doesn't 
> feel like magic. Also all the apps you write are automatically equipped with 
> POSIX CLI.
> 
> Andrus
> 
> 
>> On Feb 11, 2020, at 4:29 PM, Paul Yu via Webobjects-dev 
>> mailto:webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com>> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Spring and it’s ecosystem seems to be pretty powerful.
>> 
>> Paul
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> Please excuse iOS autocomplete 
>> 
>>> On Feb 11, 2020, at 8:06 AM, Gino Pacitti via Webobjects-dev 
>>> mailto:webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com>> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> hey if any one was to use a different app server configuration other than 
>>> WO what would you choose and why?
>>> 
>>> What are most companies requesting these days in a Java system?
> 

 ___
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Re: Complimentary App Server Choice

[Andrus Adamchik via Webobjects-dev]

We are using Bootique: https://bootique.io/ 

Just like SpringBoot, its idea is that it is not an "appserver". It gives you a 
plain Java app with your own "main" method, and a way to assemble various 
components together (and also modularity, dependency injection, consistent 
configuration and a large collection of ready-to-use modules). The app can 
serve web requests, run jobs or do whatever. 

Unlike SpringBoot, Bootique is much smaller, starts much faster, and doesn't 
feel like magic. Also all the apps you write are automatically equipped with 
POSIX CLI.

Andrus


> On Feb 11, 2020, at 4:29 PM, Paul Yu via Webobjects-dev 
>  wrote:
> 
> Spring and it’s ecosystem seems to be pretty powerful.
> 
> Paul
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> Please excuse iOS autocomplete 
> 
>> On Feb 11, 2020, at 8:06 AM, Gino Pacitti via Webobjects-dev 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> hey if any one was to use a different app server configuration other than 
>> WO what would you choose and why?
>> 
>> What are most companies requesting these days in a Java system?

 ___
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Re: Complimentary App Server Choice

[Paul Yu via Webobjects-dev]

Spring and it’s ecosystem seems to be pretty powerful.

Paul

Sent from my iPhone
Please excuse iOS autocomplete 

> On Feb 11, 2020, at 8:06 AM, Gino Pacitti via Webobjects-dev 
>  wrote:
> 
> hey if any one was to use a different app server configuration other than WO 
> what would you choose and why?
> 
> What are most companies requesting these days in a Java system?
> 
> 
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Complimentary App Server Choice

[Gino Pacitti via Webobjects-dev]

hey if any one was to use a different app server configuration other than WO 
what would you choose and why?

What are most companies requesting these days in a Java system?


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