On Tue, 14 Jul 2009, Robert O'Callahan wrote:
There's actually a fairly major related problem here. We hide the
fallback content by treating it as display:none. Currently Gecko has a
huge bug where a display:none plugin does not load/run. This works out
well for the video fallback case.
On Tue, 14 Jul 2009, Philip Jägenstedt wrote:
Ian: can you make nested video elements non-conforming so that
validators will flag it? This would be helpful regardless of the
fallback discussion.
Done.
--
Ian Hickson U+1047E)\._.,--,'``.fL
There were some proposals to change video's fallback model to allow
markup to be used as an alternative to a video stream, so that once the
various alternative videos had been tried, the user agent would make
video act as a regular display:block element and no longer act as a
video viewport.
On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 8:58 PM, Maciej Stachowiakm...@apple.com wrote:
On Jul 14, 2009, at 3:43 AM, Robert O'Callahan wrote:
On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 10:42 PM, Robert O'Callahan rob...@ocallahan.org
wrote:
On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 10:34 PM, Jonas Sicking jo...@sicking.cc wrote:
We can do
On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 23:32:44 +0200, Tab Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.com
wrote:
On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 4:01 PM, Philip Jägenstedtphil...@opera.com
wrote:
I thought you meant
video
source fallback
fallback content here
/source
/video
I would prefer if fallback content and source
On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 17:23:47 -0400, Michael A. Puls II
shadow2...@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 17:01:26 -0400, Philip Jägenstedt
phil...@opera.com wrote:
Does audio also have fallback content?
With audio, you can set its display to 'none' and the audio will still
play.
On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 23:28:41 +0200, Jonas Sicking jo...@sicking.cc wrote:
On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 5:01 AM, Philip Jägenstedtphil...@opera.com
wrote:
The design you describe is what object tried to do, and it proved
to be
extremely problematic in practice -- and that was without another
Philip Jägenstedt wrote:
Anything that can cause the element to switch back and forth between
displaying fallback and video is a no-go, that would cause a race
condition for if plugins/images in the fallback content. If they have
event handlers the results will get ugly fast:
video
!--
On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 9:46 PM, Boris Zbarsky bzbar...@mit.edu wrote:
For the current model, note that all the text says is should not show this
content to the user. While this is not defined anywhere, it doesn't seem
to indicate that the content's DOM should not exist, for example. In
On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 3:05 AM, Robert O'Callahanrob...@ocallahan.org wrote:
On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 9:46 PM, Boris Zbarsky bzbar...@mit.edu wrote:
For the current model, note that all the text says is should not show
this content to the user. While this is not defined anywhere, it doesn't
On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 10:34 PM, Jonas Sicking jo...@sicking.cc wrote:
We can do what's described above for videos and audios too (i.e. walk
parent chain etc).
We can hack something in, but what about dynamic DOM changes? IFRAME loads?
etc
Rob
--
He was pierced for our transgressions, he
On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 10:42 PM, Robert O'Callahan rob...@ocallahan.orgwrote:
On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 10:34 PM, Jonas Sicking jo...@sicking.cc wrote:
We can do what's described above for videos and audios too (i.e. walk
parent chain etc).
We can hack something in, but what about dynamic
On Tue, 14 Jul 2009 11:46:08 +0200, Boris Zbarsky bzbar...@mit.edu wrote:
Philip Jägenstedt wrote:
Anything that can cause the element to switch back and forth between
displaying fallback and video is a no-go, that would cause a race
condition for if plugins/images in the fallback content.
On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 5:05 AM, Robert O'Callahanrob...@ocallahan.org wrote:
On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 9:46 PM, Boris Zbarsky bzbar...@mit.edu wrote:
For the current model, note that all the text says is should not show
this content to the user. While this is not defined anywhere, it doesn't
On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 3:29 AM, Philip Jägenstedtphil...@opera.com wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 23:32:44 +0200, Tab Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.com
wrote:
source elements, change step 3 so that whenever any of those
conditions are met, if the source has @fallback the algorithm aborts
On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 9:02 AM, Simon Pieterssim...@opera.com wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jul 2009 14:51:42 +0200, Tab Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.com
wrote:
How do y'all currently handle noscript content in a context that
allows scripts? What if there was a video or object in the
noscript?
On Mon, 15 Jun 2009 jjcogliati-wha...@yahoo.com wrote:
Maybe to make this more clear section 4.8.7.1 should add a sentence
somewhere like:
| Authors may provide multiple source elements to provide different
| codecs for different user agents.
That section no longer exists.
On Tue, 16
On Jul 12, 2009, at 11:20 PM, Ian Hickson wrote:
The design of video from the ground up is based on the idea that in
browsers that support the element, the API will be used. If we
change this
assumption, then the entire design of the element would have to be
reconsidered -- in particular, I
On 12.7.09 23:20, Ian Hickson wrote:
If people really want to push
Apple into supporting Theora, the best way to do it would be to just keep
using it as if it was the common codec, and _not_ provide another fallback
forvideo-supporting UAs -- then things would work fine it non-video-
supporting
On Sun, Jul 12, 2009 at 11:20 PM, Ian Hicksoni...@hixie.ch wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jul 2009, Jonas Sicking wrote:
Hmm.. is that good? What if you want to use an object (to use flash
or java) or a img as fallback?
Then you do it with script.
The design is based around the assumption that
On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 11:14:21 +0200, Jonas Sicking jo...@sicking.cc wrote:
On Sun, Jul 12, 2009 at 11:20 PM, Ian Hicksoni...@hixie.ch wrote:
On Fri, 10 Jul 2009, Jonas Sicking wrote:
Hmm.. is that good? What if you want to use an object (to use
flash
or java) or a img as fallback?
Then
2009/7/13 Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch:
On Fri, 10 Jul 2009, Jeff Walden wrote:
And if a site wants to publish H.264-only with Flash or QuickTime as the
fallback, they have to use scripting to make it work in Firefox.
We presumably don't want to make the use of uncumbered codecs easier.
I
2009/7/13 Jeff Walden jwalden+wha...@mit.edu:
On 12.7.09 23:20, Ian Hickson wrote:
If people really want to push
Apple into supporting Theora, the best way to do it would be to just keep
using it as if it was the common codec, and _not_ provide another fallback
forvideo-supporting UAs --
Philip Jägenstedt wrote:
It would have to be part of the resource selection algorithm. Since that
waits for new source elements indefinitely, when exactly would you
decide to switch to fallback content? Bad solutions include
special-casing static markup and/or (falsely) assuming that scripts
On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 1:33 PM, Boris Zbarskybzbar...@mit.edu wrote:
Philip Jägenstedt wrote:
It would have to be part of the resource selection algorithm. Since that
waits for new source elements indefinitely, when exactly would you decide to
switch to fallback content? Bad solutions
On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 20:38:11 +0200, Tab Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.com
wrote:
On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 1:33 PM, Boris Zbarskybzbar...@mit.edu wrote:
Philip Jägenstedt wrote:
It would have to be part of the resource selection algorithm. Since
that
waits for new source elements
On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Philip Jägenstedtphil...@opera.com wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 20:38:11 +0200, Tab Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.com
wrote:
On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 1:33 PM, Boris Zbarskybzbar...@mit.edu wrote:
Philip Jägenstedt wrote:
It would have to be part of the resource
On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 21:28:45 +0200, Tab Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.com
wrote:
On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Philip Jägenstedtphil...@opera.com
wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 20:38:11 +0200, Tab Atkins Jr.
jackalm...@gmail.com
wrote:
On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 1:33 PM, Boris
On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 17:01:26 -0400, Philip Jägenstedt phil...@opera.com
wrote:
Does audio also have fallback content?
With audio, you can set its display to 'none' and the audio will still
play. However, if its display is set to 'none' and the element were to
fall back to a child object
On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 5:01 AM, Philip Jägenstedtphil...@opera.com wrote:
The design you describe is what object tried to do, and it proved to be
extremely problematic in practice -- and that was without another
built-in
fallback mechanism to complicate matters.
While object has had a very
On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 4:01 PM, Philip Jägenstedtphil...@opera.com wrote:
I thought you meant
video
source fallback
fallback content here
/source
/video
I would prefer if fallback content and source elements weren't mixed on the
same level, but maybe that's just me.
Eh, fallback
On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 4:28 PM, Jonas Sickingjo...@sicking.cc wrote:
This way even incremental rendering of the fallback contents would
work fine. The only case that's weird is markup like:
video
lots and lots of fallback here
source src=...
/video
There is a risk that content would be
On Jul 10, 2009, at 6:11 PM, Jeff Walden wrote:
On 10.7.09 17:44, Ian Hickson wrote:
The design is based around the assumption that we will eventually
find a
common codec so that fallback won't ever be needed in supporting UAs.
So has anyone ever actually pointed out the elephant in the
On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 3:24 PM, Maciej Stachowiakm...@apple.com wrote:
On Jul 10, 2009, at 6:11 PM, Jeff Walden wrote:
On 10.7.09 17:44, Ian Hickson wrote:
The design is based around the assumption that we will eventually find a
common codec so that fallback won't ever be needed in
On 11.7.09 12:54, Gregory Maxwell wrote:
...snip...
Precisely.
Jeff
On Jul 11, 2009, at 12:54 PM, Gregory Maxwell wrote:
Not really, at some point well before then the argument will shift to
a newer clearly superior to H.264 encumbered format. I would expect
that H.264 would spend a period of time as a non-consideration by
almost everyone since it would be
On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 jjcogliati-wha...@yahoo.com wrote:
I read section 4.8.7 The video element and I have some questions:
1. What happens if the user agent supports the video tag but does not
support the particular video codec that the video file has? Should it
display the fallback
On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 5:44 PM, Ian Hicksoni...@hixie.ch wrote:
On Sun, 14 Jun 2009, Jonas Sicking wrote:
Hmm.. is that good? What if you want to use an object (to use flash or
java) or a img as fallback?
Then you do it with script.
The design is based around the assumption that we will
On 10.7.09 17:44, Ian Hickson wrote:
The design is based around the assumption that we will eventually find a
common codec so that fallback won't ever be needed in supporting UAs.
So has anyone ever actually pointed out the elephant in the room here, that we might
never do so? I can't
Maybe to make this more clear section 4.8.7.1 should add a sentence
somewhere like:
Authors may provide multiple source elements to provide different codecs for
different user agents.
Could multiple source elements also be used to provide different bit-rate
sources (or even alternative
The first video source that can be played wins. You cannot provide
alternative versions for different languages or resolutions in one VIDEO
element.
Chris
Kristof Zelechovski wrote:
The first video source that can be played wins. You cannot provide
alternative versions for different languages or resolutions in one VIDEO
element.
If the browser decides that a video is too high resolution and cannot be
played on this system, then why can't it
At 18:12 +0200 16/06/09, Kristof Zelechovski wrote:
The first video source that can be played wins. You cannot provide
alternative versions for different languages or resolutions in one VIDEO
element.
Chris
but there are media queries, and I have posted a couple of times that
we should
Media queries can be done the same way as for images. Similarly, the server
can choose to serve a localized version of any resource whatsoever. These
customizations should not be put into VIDEO because their scope is wider.
IMHO,
Chris
On Mon, 15 Jun 2009 07:27:18 +0200, Tab Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.com
wrote:
On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 8:46 PM, jjcogliati-wha...@yahoo.com wrote:
I read section 4.8.7 The video element and I have some questions:
1. What happens if the user agent supports the video tag but does not
On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 11:08 PM, Simon Pieterssim...@opera.com wrote:
On Mon, 15 Jun 2009 07:27:18 +0200, Tab Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.com
wrote:
On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 8:46 PM, jjcogliati-wha...@yahoo.com wrote:
I read section 4.8.7 The video element and I have some questions:
1.
On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 1:46 PM, jjcogliati-wha...@yahoo.com wrote:
1. What happens if the user agent supports the video tag but does not
support the particular video codec that the video file has? Should it
display the fallback content in that case, and if so, can a video tag be put
On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 5:27 PM, Tab Atkins Jr.jackalm...@gmail.com wrote:
(That said, I don't think there's anything wrong with nesting
videos, it's just unnecessary.)
This won't work since fallback content is not displayed unless video
is not supported.
Chris.
--
On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 4:49 AM, Chris Doublechris.dou...@double.co.nz wrote:
On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 5:27 PM, Tab Atkins Jr.jackalm...@gmail.com wrote:
(That said, I don't think there's anything wrong with nesting
videos, it's just unnecessary.)
This won't work since fallback content is not
Atkins Jr. jackalm...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [whatwg] HTML 5 video tag questions
To: Chris Double chris.dou...@double.co.nz
Cc: whatwg@lists.whatwg.org, jjcogliati-wha...@yahoo.com
Date: Monday, June 15, 2009, 6:55 AM
On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 4:49 AM,
Chris Doublechris.dou...@double.co.nz
jjcogliati-wha...@yahoo.com wrote:
Okay. Thanks.
Maybe to make this more clear section 4.8.7.1 should add a sentence somewhere
like:
Authors may provide multiple source elements to provide different codecs for
different user agents.
Not just different codecs. Different bitrates,
I read section 4.8.7 The video element and I have some questions:
1. What happens if the user agent supports the video tag but does not support
the particular video codec that the video file has? Should it display the
fallback content in that case, and if so, can a video tag be put inside
On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 8:46 PM, jjcogliati-wha...@yahoo.com wrote:
I read section 4.8.7 The video element and I have some questions:
1. What happens if the user agent supports the video tag but does not
support the particular video codec that the video file has? Should it
display the
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