Re: [whatwg] HTML extension for system idle detection.

2009-09-15 Thread Jeremy Orlow
On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 7:04 AM, timeless timel...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 10:41 AM, David Bennettd...@google.com wrote: I also don't see why, in your particular case, you couldn't make it so that all background tasks are 'idle'. We could, but the reason we stop scripts

Re: [whatwg] HTML extension for system idle detection.

2009-09-15 Thread David Bennett
Morning, Updated the document for the proposal which now uses an event callback for the system idle along with a method to get the current system idle time. Comments on the update proposal? Thanks, David. SUMMARY There currently is no way to detect the system idle state in the browser. This

Re: [whatwg] HTML extension for system idle detection.

2009-09-15 Thread David Bennett
Actually, one small change. I think I need the idle time in seconds in the event, in case different UAs implement different idles as their minimum time. // The event fired when the idle state of the system changes. interface IdleStateChangeEvent : Event { const unsigned short AWAY; const

Re: [whatwg] HTML extension for system idle detection.

2009-09-13 Thread timeless
On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 9:58 PM, Jens Alfkes...@google.com wrote: The first statement implies that a web-app on your platform cannot implement the algorithm you recommend. Sure it can. The user is effectively idle, in that they are not using your web application period. That they might be

Re: [whatwg] HTML extension for system idle detection.

2009-09-13 Thread Aryeh Gregor
On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 12:08 PM, Jens Alfke s...@google.com wrote: That is not what idle means to an instant-messaging/presence service like AIM or Jabber. The idle state means the user is not at the device, to the best of its knowledge. If the user is capable of receiving messages but does

Re: [whatwg] HTML extension for system idle detection.

2009-09-13 Thread Jens Alfke
On Sep 13, 2009, at 9:51 AM, Aryeh Gregor wrote: As far as I know, web apps have no way to get the user's attention if they aren't using the web app, do they? GMail 'blinks' by alternating the window title between two states, which can be effective even if the animation in the window

Re: [whatwg] HTML extension for system idle detection.

2009-09-13 Thread timeless
On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 7:08 PM, Jens Alfkes...@google.com wrote: That is not what idle means to an instant-messaging/presence service like AIM or Jabber. The idle state means the user is not at the device, to the best of its knowledge. If the user is capable of receiving messages but does not

Re: [whatwg] HTML extension for system idle detection.

2009-09-08 Thread Jens Alfke
On Sep 5, 2009, at 3:33 PM, timeless wrote: In working on the n900, we've added features which generally break javascript activity if the user is not using the web page. ... If a client server application wants to know if the user is idle, the algorithm is this: If the client hasn't sent a

Re: [whatwg] HTML extension for system idle detection.

2009-09-02 Thread Ian Hickson
On Fri, 28 Aug 2009, David Bennett wrote: Any instant messaging client, or any client that requires user presence, will use this to keep track of the users idle state. Currently the idle state of a user inside a browser tell tend to be incorrect, and this leads to problems with people

Re: [whatwg] HTML extension for system idle detection.

2009-09-01 Thread Mike Wilson
David Bennett wrote: On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 5:30 PM, Drew Wilson atwil...@google.com wrote: This would be my inclination as well. I'm not entirely convinced that every web app should define their own idle timeout is such desirable behavior that we should build our API around it by forcing

Re: [whatwg] HTML extension for system idle detection.

2009-09-01 Thread Jeremy Orlow
On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 3:53 PM, Mike Wilson mike...@hotmail.com wrote: David Bennett wrote: On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 5:30 PM, Drew Wilson atwil...@google.com wrote: This would be my inclination as well. I'm not entirely convinced that every web app should define their own idle timeout is

Re: [whatwg] HTML extension for system idle detection.

2009-09-01 Thread David Bennett
On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 4:26 PM, Jeremy Orlow jor...@chromium.org wrote: On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 3:53 PM, Mike Wilson mike...@hotmail.com wrote: David Bennett wrote: On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 5:30 PM, Drew Wilson atwil...@google.comwrote: This would be my inclination as well. I'm not

Re: [whatwg] HTML extension for system idle detection.

2009-08-31 Thread Henri Sivonen
On Aug 29, 2009, at 00:47, David Bennett wrote: There currently is no way to detect the system idle state in the browser. This makes it difficult to deal with any sort of chat room or instant messaging client inside the browser since the idle will always be incorrect. How could such a

Re: [whatwg] HTML extension for system idle detection.

2009-08-31 Thread Max Romantschuk
On Aug 29, 2009, at 00:47, David Bennett wrote: There currently is no way to detect the system idle state in the browser. Henri Sivonen wrote: How could such a notification be abused? The first abuse use case I can think of is throttling Web Workers-based botnet computation to be less

Re: [whatwg] HTML extension for system idle detection.

2009-08-31 Thread David Bennett
On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 2:49 AM, Max Romantschuk m...@romantschuk.fi wrote: On Aug 29, 2009, at 00:47, David Bennett wrote: There currently is no way to detect the system idle state in the browser. Henri Sivonen wrote: How could such a notification be abused? The first abuse use case I

Re: [whatwg] HTML extension for system idle detection.

2009-08-31 Thread Michael Nordman
This would be a nice addition... seems like an event plus a read-only property on the 'window' object could work. window.idleState; window.onidlestatechange = function(e) {...} On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 3:40 PM, Jonas Sicking jo...@sicking.cc wrote: On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 2:47 PM, David

Re: [whatwg] HTML extension for system idle detection.

2009-08-31 Thread David Bennett
On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 5:30 PM, Drew Wilson atwil...@google.com wrote: This would be my inclination as well. I'm not entirely convinced that every web app should define their own idle timeout is such desirable behavior that we should build our API around it by forcing every caller to specify

[whatwg] HTML extension for system idle detection.

2009-08-28 Thread David Bennett
SUMMARY There currently is no way to detect the system idle state in the browser. This makes it difficult to deal with any sort of chat room or instant messaging client inside the browser since the idle will always be incorrect. USE CASE Any instant messaging client, or any client that requires

Re: [whatwg] HTML extension for system idle detection.

2009-08-28 Thread Jonas Sicking
On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 2:47 PM, David Bennettd...@google.com wrote: SUMMARY There currently is no way to detect the system idle state in the browser. This makes it difficult to deal with any sort of chat room or instant messaging client inside the browser since the idle will always be

Re: [whatwg] HTML extension for system idle detection.

2009-08-28 Thread Thomas Broyer
On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 11:47 PM, David Bennettd...@google.com wrote: SUMMARY There currently is no way to detect the system idle state in the browser. This makes it difficult to deal with any sort of chat room or instant messaging client inside the browser since the idle will always be

Re: [whatwg] HTML extension for system idle detection.

2009-08-28 Thread Jens Alfke
On Aug 28, 2009, at 3:40 PM, Jonas Sicking wrote: Seems like an event would be a better solution. For example fire a 'idlestatechange' event with the following API: Such an event implies one specific time interval that denotes 'idle'. Different clients are likely to want to use different

Re: [whatwg] HTML extension for system idle detection.

2009-08-28 Thread Jonas Sicking
On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 4:36 PM, Jens Alfkes...@google.com wrote: On Aug 28, 2009, at 3:40 PM, Jonas Sicking wrote: Seems like an event would be a better solution. For example fire a 'idlestatechange' event with the following API: Such an event implies one specific time interval that