Re: [whatwg] hit regions: limited set of elements for fallback content

2014-02-22 Thread Steve Faulkner
Nils Dagsson Moskopp wrote: But still, people (with the exception of Paul Graham) stopped using table for layouts if only that were true, take a look at https://www.google.co.uk or grep the html data available from http://webdevdata.org Also, Faulkner wanting an example of canvas to make

Re: [whatwg] hit regions: limited set of elements for fallback content

2014-02-22 Thread Nils Dagsson Moskopp
Steve Faulkner faulkner.st...@gmail.com writes: Nils Dagsson Moskopp wrote: But still, people (with the exception of Paul Graham) stopped using table for layouts if only that were true, take a look at https://www.google.co.uk or grep the html data available from http://webdevdata.org

Re: [whatwg] hit regions: limited set of elements for fallback content

2014-02-21 Thread Steve Faulkner
hixie wrote: But there's plenty of things which make zero sense as fallback content. input type=color, for example, simply cannot be sanely implemented in canvas as implemented input type=color is a button that when activated pops up a picker dialog. So the following code (as a simple example)

Re: [whatwg] hit regions: limited set of elements for fallback content

2014-02-21 Thread Charles McCathie Nevile
On Fri, 21 Feb 2014 09:47:51 +0100, Steve Faulkner faulkner.st...@gmail.com wrote: hixie wrote: But there's plenty of things which make zero sense as fallback content. input type=color, for example, simply cannot be sanely implemented in canvas I don't want to pronounce on sanity, but I

Re: [whatwg] hit regions: limited set of elements for fallback content

2014-02-21 Thread Ian Hickson
On Fri, 21 Feb 2014, Steve Faulkner wrote: But there's plenty of things which make zero sense as fallback content. input type=color, for example, simply cannot be sanely implemented in canvas as implemented input type=color is a button that when activated pops up a picker dialog. Only

Re: [whatwg] hit regions: limited set of elements for fallback content

2014-02-21 Thread Charles McCathie Nevile
On Thu, 20 Feb 2014 22:38:18 +0100, Nils Dagsson Moskopp n...@dieweltistgarnichtso.net wrote: Dominic Mazzoni dmazz...@google.com writes: First a high-level thought. I'm happy to keep chasing after legitimate use-cases instead of contrived ones, but just because we can't think of one,

Re: [whatwg] hit regions: limited set of elements for fallback content

2014-02-21 Thread Nils Dagsson Moskopp
Charles McCathie Nevile cha...@yandex-team.ru writes: On Thu, 20 Feb 2014 22:38:18 +0100, Nils Dagsson Moskopp n...@dieweltistgarnichtso.net wrote: Dominic Mazzoni dmazz...@google.com writes: First a high-level thought. I'm happy to keep chasing after legitimate use-cases instead of

Re: [whatwg] hit regions: limited set of elements for fallback content

2014-02-20 Thread Dominic Mazzoni
First a high-level thought. I'm happy to keep chasing after legitimate use-cases instead of contrived ones, but just because we can't think of one, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. As Alan Perlis said, Every program has (at least) two purposes: the one for which it was written and another for which

Re: [whatwg] hit regions: limited set of elements for fallback content

2014-02-20 Thread Ian Hickson
On Thu, 20 Feb 2014, Dominic Mazzoni wrote: I'm happy to keep chasing after legitimate use-cases instead of contrived ones, but just because we can't think of one, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. As Alan Perlis said, Every program has (at least) two purposes: the one for which it was

Re: [whatwg] hit regions: limited set of elements for fallback content

2014-02-20 Thread Dominic Mazzoni
On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 10:37 AM, Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch wrote: So far, it seems like to support grids in canvas, we need: - enable table-related elements (table, td, tfoot, etc) to be hit region controls. (exclude col and colgroup) - fire an event on an element when the user agent

Re: [whatwg] hit regions: limited set of elements for fallback content

2014-02-20 Thread Ian Hickson
On Thu, 20 Feb 2014, Dominic Mazzoni wrote: On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 10:37 AM, Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch wrote: So far, it seems like to support grids in canvas, we need: - enable table-related elements (table, td, tfoot, etc) to be hit region controls. (exclude col and colgroup)

Re: [whatwg] hit regions: limited set of elements for fallback content

2014-02-20 Thread Nils Dagsson Moskopp
Dominic Mazzoni dmazz...@google.com writes: First a high-level thought. I'm happy to keep chasing after legitimate use-cases instead of contrived ones, but just because we can't think of one, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. As Alan Perlis said, Every program has (at least) two purposes: the

Re: [whatwg] hit regions: limited set of elements for fallback content

2014-02-18 Thread Dominic Mazzoni
On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 11:02 PM, Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch wrote: What about select? What about it? I'm curious if it's possible to implement an accessible list box or other select control in a canvas. Wouldn't it be possible to make it accessible if the canvas lets you focus the list box

Re: [whatwg] hit regions: limited set of elements for fallback content

2014-02-18 Thread Ian Hickson
On Tue, 18 Feb 2014, Dominic Mazzoni wrote: On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 11:02 PM, Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch wrote: What about select? What about it? I'm curious if it's possible to implement an accessible list box or other select control in a canvas. Wouldn't it be possible to make it

Re: [whatwg] hit regions: limited set of elements for fallback content

2014-02-18 Thread Rik Cabanier
On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 10:51 AM, Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch wrote: On Tue, 18 Feb 2014, Dominic Mazzoni wrote: On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 11:02 PM, Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch wrote: What about select? What about it? I'm curious if it's possible to implement an accessible list box

Re: [whatwg] hit regions: limited set of elements for fallback content

2014-02-18 Thread Dominic Mazzoni
On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 10:51 AM, Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch wrote: I'm curious if it's possible to implement an accessible list box or other select control in a canvas. Wouldn't it be possible to make it accessible if the canvas lets you focus the list box by clicking on its hit region,

Re: [whatwg] hit regions: limited set of elements for fallback content

2014-02-18 Thread Ian Hickson
On Tue, 18 Feb 2014, Rik Cabanier wrote: Why would you use a canvas for a cross-word puzzle, rather than a table? Because it is easier to code a nice interface. See this Google doodle: http://www.google.com/logos/2013/crossword/crossword13.html It's fully keyboard navigable but

Re: [whatwg] hit regions: limited set of elements for fallback content

2014-02-18 Thread Ian Hickson
On Tue, 18 Feb 2014, Dominic Mazzoni wrote: On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 10:51 AM, Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch wrote: I'm curious if it's possible to implement an accessible list box or other select control in a canvas. Wouldn't it be possible to make it accessible if the canvas lets you

Re: [whatwg] hit regions: limited set of elements for fallback content

2014-02-18 Thread Ian Hickson
On Tue, 18 Feb 2014, Dominic Mazzoni wrote: On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 11:39 AM, Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch wrote: This example actually adds more questions: How do we handle the multiple focus case? (There's focus in the crossword and in the clue list at the same time.) I don't think

[whatwg] hit regions: limited set of elements for fallback content

2014-02-17 Thread Rik Cabanier
The current spec for hit regions restricts what elements can be used as fallback content [1]: If any of the following conditions are met, throw a NotSupportedErrorhttp://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/infrastructure.html#notsupportederror exception and abort these steps.

Re: [whatwg] hit regions: limited set of elements for fallback content

2014-02-17 Thread Ian Hickson
On Mon, 17 Feb 2014, Rik Cabanier wrote: The current spec for hit regions restricts what elements can be used as fallback content [1]: [...] Why is there this limitation? It supports the content model restrictions, which are there to avoid authors making mistakes that harm accessibility

Re: [whatwg] hit regions: limited set of elements for fallback content

2014-02-17 Thread Rik Cabanier
On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 8:20 PM, Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch wrote: On Mon, 17 Feb 2014, Rik Cabanier wrote: The current spec for hit regions restricts what elements can be used as fallback content [1]: [...] Why is there this limitation? It supports the content model restrictions,

Re: [whatwg] hit regions: limited set of elements for fallback content

2014-02-17 Thread Dominic Mazzoni
On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 8:20 PM, Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch wrote: If there are specific use cases that can't be done given the current restrictions, please let me know; What about select? What about an element with a tabindex and an ARIA role that corresponds to a control? Note that there are

Re: [whatwg] hit regions: limited set of elements for fallback content

2014-02-17 Thread Ian Hickson
On Mon, 17 Feb 2014, Rik Cabanier wrote: Were those use cases posted to this list? I'm sure some were. Your typical use case would be something like a graph, a game menu, a fractal explorer, and so on. So, you wouldn't want the same limitations as for regular HTML elements? Not sure what

Re: [whatwg] hit regions: limited set of elements for fallback content

2014-02-17 Thread Ian Hickson
On Mon, 17 Feb 2014, Dominic Mazzoni wrote: On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 8:20 PM, Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch wrote: If there are specific use cases that can't be done given the current restrictions, please let me know; What about select? What about it? What about an element with a