Re: [whatwg] [hybi] WebSockets: UDP

2010-06-11 Thread Erik Möller
On Fri, 11 Jun 2010 00:21:38 +0200, Mark Frohnmayer mark.frohnma...@gmail.com wrote: TorqueSocket is not in the same category as RakNet or OpenTNL Ah, sorry I got the names mixed up, I meant to say RakNet/OpenTNL and not RakNet/TorqueSocket. I'd recommend doing some real-world testing

Re: [whatwg] [hybi] WebSockets: UDP

2010-06-11 Thread Erik Möller
On Fri, 11 Jun 2010 06:25:41 +0200, Lars Eggert lars.egg...@nokia.com wrote: Hi, on a purely managerial level, let me point out that this work is far beyond the current charter of the HYBI WG. This defines an entirely new protocol, and will definitely require a charter discussion. (If

Re: [whatwg] [hybi] WebSockets: UDP

2010-06-11 Thread Mark Frohnmayer
On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 3:18 AM, Erik Möller emol...@opera.com wrote: Absolutely, that's why the path-MTU attribute was suggested. The ~64k limit is an absolute limit though at which sends can be rejected immediately without even trying. Ah, gotcha. I was trying to separate the cases of MTU

Re: [whatwg] [hybi] WebSockets: UDP

2010-06-10 Thread Mark Frohnmayer
On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 12:35 PM, Erik Möller emol...@opera.com wrote: Regarding the discussions on at what level the API of a UDP-WebSocket should be: One of the most important aspects to remember are that for this to be interesting to application developers we need all the browser vendors to

Re: [whatwg] [hybi] WebSockets: UDP

2010-06-10 Thread Erik Möller
During the Opera Network Seminar held in Oslo this week I discussed the possible addition of a new wsd: URL scheme to WebSockets that would allow relaxing the packet resends and enable demanding real-time applications to be written. I'd like to summarize some of the conclusions a few of us

Re: [whatwg] [hybi] WebSockets: UDP

2010-06-02 Thread Erik Möller
On Wed, 02 Jun 2010 01:07:48 +0200, Mark Frohnmayer mark.frohnma...@gmail.com wrote: Glad to see this discussion rolling! For what it's worth, the Torque Sockets design effort was to take a stab at answering this question -- what is the least-common-denominator webby API/protocol that's

Re: [whatwg] [hybi] WebSockets: UDP

2010-06-01 Thread Mark Frohnmayer
On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 1:02 PM, Erik Möller emol...@opera.com wrote: I was hoping to be able to avoid looking at what the interfaces of a high vs low level option would look like this early on in the discussions, but perhaps we need to do just that; look at Torque, RakNet etc and find a least

Re: [whatwg] [hybi] WebSockets: UDP

2010-06-01 Thread Scott Hess
On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 4:07 PM, Mark Frohnmayer mark.frohnma...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 1:02 PM, Erik Möller emol...@opera.com wrote: So, what would the minimal set of limitations be to make a UDP WebSocket browser-safe? -No listen sockets Only feedback here would be I think

Re: [whatwg] [hybi] WebSockets: UDP

2010-06-01 Thread Mark Frohnmayer
On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 4:35 PM, l.w...@surrey.ac.uk wrote: On 2 Jun 2010, at 00:07, Mark Frohnmayer wrote: A single UDP socket can host multiple connections (indexed by packet source address), so even a modest limit on actual number of sockets wouldn't be a big impediment. Um, NAT? You

Re: [whatwg] [hybi] WebSockets: UDP

2010-06-01 Thread Ben Garney
On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 5:12 PM, Mark Frohnmayer mark.frohnma...@gmail.comwrote: On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 4:35 PM, l.w...@surrey.ac.uk wrote: On 2 Jun 2010, at 00:07, Mark Frohnmayer wrote: A single UDP socket can host multiple connections (indexed by packet source address), so even a modest