Re: [whatwg] Splash screen proposal for web apps ?
On 01/08/13 19:17, Laurent Perez wrote: Our user agent is a HTTP proxy, currently we are feeding it HTML5 pages, then we are parsing custom data-* attributes and replacing them with UI components, for example data-carousel becomes a touch carousel, and so on. Instead of creating another data-splashscreen attribute, we always try standards first, so I'm evaluating the widgets spec, PhoneGap went the feature splashscreen way, RIM chose a rim:splash vendor namespace. On top of that there is also the manifest spec, implemented by Firefox OS. There have been a lot of discussions at Mozilla around this feature recently. The first released versions of Firefox OS have some kind of automatic splash screen mechanism that is under-optimised and not very accurate so our front end engineers asked for a declarative solution in the Web Manifest so they could tweak its behaviour. It seems to match what you are asking. The conclusions of our discussions are that a splash screen is not needed because the first paint of a page can be very quick if the page is designed for this. If all the scripts, stylesheets and content are loaded synchronously, your page will look slow and a splash screen might be required but the Web has many features that allow developers to be smart about time load. Even for applications that need to do some loading by design (let say a game that need to load assets), it is more efficient if the page itself handles the splash screen by loading a simple DOM + stylesheet that would show Loading. Please wait. rather than having the UA taking care of it. The UA will have a hard time to know when to stop loading the splash screen, when to stop it and would have many limitations around animated splash screen, internationalisation, etc. The sysapps WG is what I was looking for, thanks :) The Web Manifest lives in WebApps WG nowadays, you might want to bring that feature request if you still want it. Cheers, -- Mounir
Re: [whatwg] Splash screen proposal for web apps ?
The use case is to show a please wait, loading... message until all resources of an index page (js, css, html, images, fonts) are downloaded. When the message dismisses, the index page is ready for a non-blocking UI navigation since js was already loaded. We plan to implement it in our own user agent, and I was wondering if I should go the Apple meta way or use the w3c widgets spec and use a webapp descriptor. I know the widgets spec has been implemented by some (Opera, Phonegap to describe an hybrid application), I was wondering if work was still going on on the splash proposal. laurent On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 9:15 PM, Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch wrote: On Wed, 31 Jul 2013, Laurent Perez wrote: Is there work going on on a Splash screen specification ? What's the use case? Generally speaking, Web pages load incrementally, so by the time you've downloaded an image, you should be able to just show the Web page itself, at least in a state good enough for the user. (For example, even really large and expensive pages like Google+ render in a usable state quickly, even though they continue to load assets and scripts in the background and thus actually don't present an interactive UI straight away.) -- Ian Hickson U+1047E)\._.,--,'``.fL http://ln.hixie.ch/ U+263A/, _.. \ _\ ;`._ ,. Things that are impossible just take longer. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' -- http://laurentperez.fr J2EE tips and best practices
Re: [whatwg] Splash screen proposal for web apps ?
On Thu, 1 Aug 2013, Laurent Perez wrote: The use case is to show a please wait, loading... message until all resources of an index page (js, css, html, images, fonts) are downloaded. When the message dismisses, the index page is ready for a non-blocking UI navigation since js was already loaded. We plan to implement it in our own user agent, and I was wondering if I should go the Apple meta way or use the w3c widgets spec and use a webapp descriptor. I know the widgets spec has been implemented by some (Opera, Phonegap to describe an hybrid application), I was wondering if work was still going on on the splash proposal. Why not model applications around the same model as used by G+, where the splash is the application itself, just in a non-interactive state? If you can download the splash graphic, you can almost certainly download enough of the app to just show it. Basically, I think you should view as splash screens as much the same way as installation -- bugs from a legacy world that we should work hard to avoid reintroducing into the Web platform. -- Ian Hickson U+1047E)\._.,--,'``.fL http://ln.hixie.ch/ U+263A/, _.. \ _\ ;`._ ,. Things that are impossible just take longer. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'
Re: [whatwg] Splash screen proposal for web apps ?
On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 9:15 PM, Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch wrote: On Wed, 31 Jul 2013, Laurent Perez wrote: Is there work going on on a Splash screen specification ? What's the use case? Generally speaking, Web pages load incrementally, so by the time you've downloaded an image, you should be able to just show the Web page itself, at least in a state good enough for the user. (For example, even really large and expensive pages like Google+ render in a usable state quickly, even though they continue to load assets and scripts in the background and thus actually don't present an interactive UI straight away.) On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 12:48 AM, Laurent Perez l.lauren...@gmail.com wrote: The use case is to show a please wait, loading... message until all resources of an index page (js, css, html, images, fonts) are downloaded. When the message dismisses, the index page is ready for a non-blocking UI navigation since js was already loaded. We plan to implement it in our own user agent, and I was wondering if I should go the Apple meta way or use the w3c widgets spec and use a webapp descriptor. I know the widgets spec has been implemented by some (Opera, Phonegap to describe an hybrid application), I was wondering if work was still going on on the splash proposal. Your exact use case is unclear as to whether you want this for web pages in general (in which case you have the problem that you need to load some resources before the page itself loads) or for some kind of packaged web application scenario. For the latter, there has been some discussion around splash screens [1] in the context of the ongoing work around the web manifest specification [2].Check that out and direct your query to W3C SysApps [3]? [1] https://github.com/sysapps/sysapps/issues/41 [2] http://manifest.sysapps.org [3] http://www.w3.org/2012/sysapps/
Re: [whatwg] Splash screen proposal for web apps ?
Our user agent is a HTTP proxy, currently we are feeding it HTML5 pages, then we are parsing custom data-* attributes and replacing them with UI components, for example data-carousel becomes a touch carousel, and so on. Instead of creating another data-splashscreen attribute, we always try standards first, so I'm evaluating the widgets spec, PhoneGap went the feature splashscreen way, RIM chose a rim:splash vendor namespace. On top of that there is also the manifest spec, implemented by Firefox OS. The sysapps WG is what I was looking for, thanks :) laurent On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 5:59 PM, Rich Tibbett ri...@opera.com wrote: On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 9:15 PM, Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch wrote: On Wed, 31 Jul 2013, Laurent Perez wrote: Is there work going on on a Splash screen specification ? What's the use case? Generally speaking, Web pages load incrementally, so by the time you've downloaded an image, you should be able to just show the Web page itself, at least in a state good enough for the user. (For example, even really large and expensive pages like Google+ render in a usable state quickly, even though they continue to load assets and scripts in the background and thus actually don't present an interactive UI straight away.) On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 12:48 AM, Laurent Perez l.lauren...@gmail.com wrote: The use case is to show a please wait, loading... message until all resources of an index page (js, css, html, images, fonts) are downloaded. When the message dismisses, the index page is ready for a non-blocking UI navigation since js was already loaded. We plan to implement it in our own user agent, and I was wondering if I should go the Apple meta way or use the w3c widgets spec and use a webapp descriptor. I know the widgets spec has been implemented by some (Opera, Phonegap to describe an hybrid application), I was wondering if work was still going on on the splash proposal. Your exact use case is unclear as to whether you want this for web pages in general (in which case you have the problem that you need to load some resources before the page itself loads) or for some kind of packaged web application scenario. For the latter, there has been some discussion around splash screens [1] in the context of the ongoing work around the web manifest specification [2].Check that out and direct your query to W3C SysApps [3]? [1] https://github.com/sysapps/sysapps/issues/41 [2] http://manifest.sysapps.org [3] http://www.w3.org/2012/sysapps/ -- http://laurentperez.fr J2EE tips and best practices
[whatwg] Splash screen proposal for web apps ?
Hi Is there work going on on a Splash screen specification ? There is an attempt at https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/nativeapps/raw-file/tip/splashscreen/Overview.htmlbut no user agent implementation. Apple chose a link rel=apple-touch-startup-image but http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1645937/iphone-web-splash-screen-not-workingshows that screen resolutions require javascript. Thanks laurent -- http://laurentperez.fr J2EE tips and best practices
Re: [whatwg] Splash screen proposal for web apps ?
On Wed, 31 Jul 2013, Laurent Perez wrote: Is there work going on on a Splash screen specification ? What's the use case? Generally speaking, Web pages load incrementally, so by the time you've downloaded an image, you should be able to just show the Web page itself, at least in a state good enough for the user. (For example, even really large and expensive pages like Google+ render in a usable state quickly, even though they continue to load assets and scripts in the background and thus actually don't present an interactive UI straight away.) -- Ian Hickson U+1047E)\._.,--,'``.fL http://ln.hixie.ch/ U+263A/, _.. \ _\ ;`._ ,. Things that are impossible just take longer. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'
