Re: [whatwg] media elements: Relative seeking

2008-12-01 Thread Maik Merten
Ian Hickson schrieb: You can jump to a position that's a fraction of the whole clip by setting 'currentTime' to a fractional multiple of 'duration'. Right, I was thinking of what happens if no duration could be determined with acceptable effort. However, by now I happen to think that

Re: [whatwg] media elements: Relative seeking

2008-12-01 Thread Chris Double
On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 11:28 PM, Ian Hickson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For the few servers that don't support seeking, duration is not available. Note that that is non-conforming at the moment. You have to have a duration available (though it can be +Infinity if you think that the resource is

Re: [whatwg] media elements: Relative seeking

2008-12-01 Thread Dave Singer
At 2:06 + 2/12/08, Ian Hickson wrote: On Tue, 2 Dec 2008, Chris Double wrote: On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 11:28 PM, Ian Hickson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For the few servers that don't support seeking, duration is not available. Note that that is non-conforming at the moment. You have

Re: [whatwg] media elements: Relative seeking

2008-12-01 Thread Chris Double
On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 3:06 PM, Ian Hickson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We removed some other features (e.g. bufferedBytes and totalBytes) because implementors said they would always provide accurate values in the buffered and duration attributes. If we allow duration to be NaN, then we'd have to

Re: [whatwg] media elements: Relative seeking

2008-12-01 Thread Ian Hickson
On Tue, 2 Dec 2008, Chris Double wrote: It's not possible to always provide accurate values for duration - we've already discussed that and you suggested estimating. I don't see that as an accurate value. The spec does allow for estimations and provides for the estimate being revised

Re: [whatwg] media elements: Relative seeking

2008-11-25 Thread Silvia Pfeiffer
On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 6:58 PM, Maik Merten [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dave Singer schrieb: IF we are to do this, I would have thought it would be by adding units to the where to seek to argument: * go to this time in NPT (normal play time, which runs from 0 to media duration) * go to this

Re: [whatwg] media elements: Relative seeking

2008-11-25 Thread Philip Jägenstedt
Relative seeking is always possible: currentTime+=10. Proportional seeking is possible as long as the duration is known and finite. I would avoid as far as possible any use of byte positions as this information isn't exactly trivial to get given all the buffering and asynchronous decoding

Re: [whatwg] media elements: Relative seeking

2008-11-25 Thread Eric Carlson
On Nov 24, 2008, at 2:21 PM, Calogero Alex Baldacchino wrote: Well, the length attribute could be an indication about such limit and could accept a generic value, such as 'unknown' (or '0', with the same meaning - just to have only numerical values) to indicate an endless stream (i.e. a

Re: [whatwg] media elements: Relative seeking

2008-11-25 Thread Calogero Alex Baldacchino
Eric Carlson ha scritto: On Nov 24, 2008, at 2:21 PM, Calogero Alex Baldacchino wrote: Well, the length attribute could be an indication about such limit and could accept a generic value, such as 'unknown' (or '0', with the same meaning - just to have only numerical values) to indicate an

Re: [whatwg] media elements: Relative seeking

2008-11-25 Thread Maik Merten
Silvia Pfeiffer schrieb: In any case - if you (and also Chris Double) are satisfied with the estimates you're getting for file duration/length - I'll stop arguing for it. It would be nice to hear some experimental evidence about how well it's doing, e.g. for typical movie trailers, so we can

Re: [whatwg] media elements: Relative seeking

2008-11-25 Thread Silvia Pfeiffer
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 7:22 AM, Maik Merten [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Silvia Pfeiffer schrieb: In any case - if you (and also Chris Double) are satisfied with the estimates you're getting for file duration/length - I'll stop arguing for it. It would be nice to hear some experimental evidence

Re: [whatwg] media elements: Relative seeking

2008-11-25 Thread Chris Double
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 12:28 AM, Silvia Pfeiffer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In any case - if you (and also Chris Double) are satisfied with the estimates you're getting for file duration/length - I'll stop arguing for it. It would be nice to hear some experimental evidence about how well it's

Re: [whatwg] media elements: Relative seeking

2008-11-25 Thread Maik Merten
Silvia Pfeiffer schrieb: The duration is indeed jumping quite a bit between 8min and 12 min and even at the end still has a gap of actual end time of 9m54s while the estimate is still at 10m44s. Actually that gap means the byte-accounting is still buggy. Hmmm... Players like YouTube's player

Re: [whatwg] media elements: Relative seeking

2008-11-24 Thread Dave Singer
I don't think you mean 'relative' here, which I would take to be go forward 10 seconds, but 'proportional', please go to 60% of the way through. IF we are to do this, I would have thought it would be by adding units to the where to seek to argument: * go to this time in NPT (normal play

Re: [whatwg] media elements: Relative seeking

2008-11-24 Thread Calogero Alex Baldacchino
- Original Message Da: Eric Carlson lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt; To: Silvia Pfeiffer lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt; Cc: WHAT Working Group lt;whatwg@lists.whatwg.orggt;, Maik Merten lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt; Oggetto: Re: [whatwg] media elements: Relative seeking Data: 24/11/08 03:17

Re: [whatwg] media elements: Relative seeking

2008-11-24 Thread Calogero Alex Baldacchino
nbsp; - Original Message Da: Maik Merten lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt; To: WHATWG Proposals lt;whatwg@lists.whatwg.orggt; Oggetto: Re: [whatwg] media elements: Relative seeking Data: 24/11/08 08:45 gt; Eric Carlson schrieb: gt;gt; QuickTime has used this method

Re: [whatwg] media elements: Relative seeking

2008-11-24 Thread Silvia Pfeiffer
Eric, On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 1:17 PM, Eric Carlson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Silvia - On Nov 23, 2008, at 1:40 PM, Silvia Pfeiffer wrote: I don't see addition of a duration attribute as much of a problem. We have width and height for images, and sizes for fonts, too, and web developers

Re: [whatwg] media elements: Relative seeking

2008-11-24 Thread Maik Merten
Dave Singer schrieb: I don't think you mean 'relative' here, which I would take to be go forward 10 seconds, but 'proportional', please go to 60% of the way through. Right, proportional for sure is the correct word for what I had in mind. Thanks. IF we are to do this, I would have thought

Re: [whatwg] media elements: Relative seeking

2008-11-23 Thread Eric Carlson
Reporting the absolute time of the current sample won't help when the first sample of the file doesn't have a timestamp of zero. It will be even more confusing for files with portions removed or added without fixing time stamps - for example a movie created by concatenating different

Re: [whatwg] media elements: Relative seeking

2008-11-23 Thread Eric Carlson
On Nov 23, 2008, at 10:51 AM, Maik Merten wrote: Eric Carlson schrieb: Reporting the absolute time of the current sample won't help when the first sample of the file doesn't have a timestamp of zero. It will be even more confusing for files with portions removed or added without fixing

Re: [whatwg] media elements: Relative seeking

2008-11-23 Thread Silvia Pfeiffer
On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 7:17 AM, Eric Carlson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Nov 23, 2008, at 10:51 AM, Maik Merten wrote: Eric Carlson schrieb: Reporting the absolute time of the current sample won't help when the first sample of the file doesn't have a timestamp of zero. It will be even

Re: [whatwg] media elements: Relative seeking

2008-11-23 Thread Maik Merten
Eric Carlson schrieb: QuickTime has used this method this since it started supporting VBR mp3 in 2000, and in practice it works quite well. I am sure that there are degenerate cases where the initial estimate is way off, but generally it is accurate enough that it isn't a problem. An initial