ever implement a video
element if they weren't allowed to support their own formats as well (it
may be hard enough for them to support any base format not being theirs
anyway).
Sorry for this long mail,
Maik Merten
playback system that does seeking and A/V
sync you can get away with libvorbisdec, libtheoradec and libogg.
Compressed that is 102 K.
Maik Merten
element but more something like
mediastream audio=true video=true or something like that.
Maik Merten
and make sure the user has a fitting
plugin for the mandatory format installed.
Maik Merten
Elliotte Harold schrieb:
Maik Merten wrote:
I don't think we need a novideo element. This would work:
video
p
Complete marked up transcript of the video.
/p
/video
This is much more accessible and great for search engine optimization.
This makes sense, although I'm not sure
Bjoern Hoehrmann schrieb:
Flash supports two codecs, the more recent one is VP6, a successor of
VP3; VP3 in turn is what Ogg Theora is based on. I would be surprised
to learn that On2 gave the superior codec away for free while it sells
the inferior one.
On2 VP6 is performing better than On2
efficiency. If you can't use special hardware you often end up not
having a choice but to choose a codec of moderate complexity.
Maik Merten
Mihai Sucan schrieb:
As a user, it's convenient for me to search for some video, click it and
have it automatically play. Do I have to enable JavaScript for that? Or
... do I have to click the play button? Or ... wait, I have to enable JS
for the play button as well. (*cough* forced branded UI
Håkon Wium Lie schrieb:
What WHATWG has been shooting for, is one common codec. At this point,
WHATWG folks want Theora.
Yes, it's a likable format. If anyone has better ideas, this is the
time to step forward.
There's Dirac in development right now. That's a next generation wavelet
Maciej Stachowiak schrieb:
- As mentioned above, some devices may have a much harder time
implementing Ogg than other codecs. Although a SHOULD-level requirement
would excuse them, I'm not sure it's appropriate to have it if it might
be invoked often.
Ogg Theora decoding has been demonstrated
Gareth Hay schrieb:
Not in the EU, no such thing as a software patent.
To my knowledge the MPEG patents are *not* software patents but are what
I know as Verfahrenspatente (crudely translated that would be Method
patents - anyone knowning the correct term?). Those patents are valid here.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb:
I actually agree with this -- I think that MPEG-4 already has lots of heavy
weight behind it and is quite a good format with lots of existing
implementations. Theora/Vorbis are definitely the upstarts in this; they
should live and die on their technical merits
Maciej Stachowiak schrieb:
This is true of hardware audio decoders, but not hardware video
decoders, which use dedicated circuit blocks. If Ogg suddenly became
popular it would likely be a several year pipeline before there were any
hardware decoders.
I'd say that any hardware player using
Håkon Wium Lie schrieb:
Does Dirac aim at becoming a member in the Ogg family, or are you
primarily working towards a standalone format?
Dirac is container neutral to my knowledge. The implementation targeted
at end-users is embedding it in Ogg, though, so it can e.g. use the free
Ogg audio
and there and do not contain
MPEG codecs. IIRC the MPEG4 container was more or less derived from
QickTime's .mov container, so I'm not sure if .mov actually *is*
actually the MPEG4 container by now.
Maik Merten
to 1990,
as well as WMP and RealPlayer and all the open source players.
Well, that would be a desperate measure. It won't work for web video at
all because compression efficiency is lousy (or even worse). People
could just as well embed animated GIF films and provide a transcript ;)
Maik Merten
Geoffrey Sneddon schrieb:
That sort of info is held within the container, so everything within Ogg
(so both Theora and Dirac) will suffer from it. H.264 being part of the
MPEG-4 standard follows what Kevin Marks said:
On 24 Mar 2007, at 08:57, Kevin Marks wrote:
2. define a chunk/offset
as optional part.
Maik Merten
in the
video section). I guess your points apply there, too?
Maik Merten
patent claims and they did not issue any more statements
concerning the patent status of Vorbis, but still this old old old story
is doing its damage.
Maik Merten
that may lessen the interlectual
properties problems as another party is responsible for the component.
Maik Merten
) as far as I know.
bye,
Maik Merten
Dave Singer schrieb:
are you telling us that all implementations of Ogg and Theora can play
audio and video up to any bitrate, screensize, channel count etc.,
without dropping frames, getting behind, decoding badly, or other
limits? That would be quite an achievement...more impressive than
vendors can at
least reliably express where their solutions will fail. That doesn't
change the fact that there are H.264 files out there that will play on
device A but not on device B. So the profiles add another dimension to
interoperability issues (there are already many others).
Maik Merten
is 100%
reprogrammable and is well suited for Theora decoding (so I am told).
Now, of course that's implementation work, but so is the whole WHATWG
spec and I'm sure Broadcom would prefer doing the implementation work
over losing customers.
Maik Merten
Dave Singer schrieb:
At 18:44 +0200 3/04/07, Maik Merten wrote:
Personally I don't see a reason why Apple couldn't simply queue an Ogg
Theora component provided by a 3rd party into the QuickTime component
Alas, that wouldn't be Apple then that was complying, merely that we
make it possible
Maik Merten schrieb:
This is vastly off-topic, but is there a formalized way for 3rd parties
to register their qt components and have them in the download service?
Oh, didn't look hard enough yet.
http://developer.apple.com/quicktime/qtcdform.html
Maik Merten
timeless schrieb:
On 4/2/07, Maik Merten [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Usually consumer hardware doesn't receive feature upgrades after it
shipped,
since you're using (buying?) the n800, I wonder if you're counting it
as a consumer product.
I do count it as a consumer device, but it's way more
after the user
acknowledged the process.
That won't be as smooth as native and out of the box support - but
if the whole process only involves like 4 user mouse clicks then
operability is as okay as it can be under the given circumstances.
Maik Merten
and the Theora FAQ http://theora.org/theorafaq.html
But I may have misunderstood what you were alluding to.
Well, I assume he's referring to Apple, Inc. is no better than
Microsoft - meaning that Microsoft is the patent-owning entity which
publishes no documentation.
Maik Merten
outperformed by Theora. I don't know where all that
Theora is high bitrate and low quality talk comes from. It's not as
good as H.264, but it's for sure not worse than H.263 and from my tests
it's consistently better at low bitrate video.
Maik Merten
distribution in e.g. Europe or North America).
Maik Merten
(below
one megabyte, even suitable for attaching to an email).
Maik Merten
On 6/26/07, *Maik Merten* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Jerason Banes schrieb:
H.263 is seriously outperformed by Theora. I don't know where all that
Theora is high bitrate and low
Jerason Banes schrieb:
On 6/26/07, *Maik Merten* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Opera and Mozilla already have implemented (early) Ogg Vorbis and Ogg
Theora support.
And (if this thread is any indication) are likely to be the only ones.
Internet Explorer
situation where actually improving interoperability with
one media system slams the door for Linux and MacOS users).
Maik Merten
, thanks to the MPEG and Microsoft codecs
being patented (and because those patents are enforced) you cannot put
it into Mozilla.
Open source usually only covers copyright. Truly free codecs are open
sourced AND don't require patent licensing.
Maik Merten
be
possible for the browser to layer something div-equivalent over the
media elements supporting captioning and pipe the HTML captions into it
(with caution, imagine a caption itself recursively embedding a video).
Maik Merten
Ian Hickson schrieb:
The difference is that while Apple (for example) have already assumed the
risk of submarine patents with H.264, they currently have taken no risks
with respect to the aforementioned codecs, and they do not wish to take on
that risk.
Which surely means that they won't
Ian Hickson schrieb:
One would imagine that they would happily take new risks if the rewards
were great (e.g. a better codec). Sadly the rewards in the case of Ogg
Theora are low -- there isn't much content using Theora, and Theora isn't
technically an especially compelling codec compared to
Ian Hickson schrieb:
Ogg Theora has not had an exhaustive patent search (you may be thinking of
Ogg Vorbis). In fact, it is likely the case that H.264 has had a _more_
exhaustive patent search than Ogg Theora.
Well, thanks to VP3 having been a commercial product licensed to
numerous
Geoffrey Sneddon schrieb:
Apart from those two, the others I can think of are those that are in
excess of twenty years old (and therefore their patents have expired),
such as H.260.
I couldn't find anything insightful about H.260. Sure you don't mean
H.120, which is a 1982 video codec I
Charles schrieb:
AVC is a standard under both the ITU-T Video Coding Experts Group (VCEG)
and ISO/IEC Moving Picture Experts Group (MPEG).
Right, but of course neither VCEG nor ISO/IEC have a monopoly on setting
standards.
Also, AVC is a de-facto standard. Every iPod supports it. Every PSP
Krzysztof Żelechowski schrieb:
Remember the - in DOCTYPE HTML?
Feel free to be more specific.
Krzysztof Żelechowski schrieb:
Dnia 14-12-2007, Pt o godzinie 19:47 +0100, Maik Merten pisze:
Krzysztof Żelechowski schrieb:
Remember the - in DOCTYPE HTML?
Feel free to be more specific.
That prefix means that HTML DOCTYPE is not issued by an officially
recognised standards body. If W3C
David Gerard schrieb:
Is the video tag doing Ogg Theora in Opera yet?
In experimental builds, yes.
I'm sure Apple and Nokia can join the party at their leisure.
I assume the latest move by Mozilla (which I think is great, obviously)
won't do anything to address the IP concerns of
David Gerard schrieb:
The IP concerns are blatant FUD and it's ridiculous to describe them
in any other terms.
While I do agree that the IP concerns may actually be blown out of
proportion (after all the current state of being in a limbo, leaving the
field completely to proprietary
David Gerard schrieb:
Ignoring IE, Firefox 3.1 will have this Just Work. So, as I said,
it'll be a process of them deciding whether there are business reasons
to come along at their leisure.
Yes, business reasons are usually indeed good reasons for businesses ;-)
The second-biggest browser
Maik Merten schrieb:
If for sure welcome the stance of Mozilla and Opera to support
royality-free-for-any-purpose formats and I hope other vendors will
follow this path.
This sentence doesn't parse. Patched version:
I for sure welcome the stance of Mozilla and Opera to support
royality-free
Chris Double schrieb:
Given that codecs are often highly optimized for forward playback the
cost in memory can be excessive to go the other way. Could there be a
possibility to say 'reverse playback not supported'?
This may be needed anyway, given that with streaming media you can't
reverse
Hello,
I'm trying to find out how to determine if a given media format is
supported by a media-element implementation. The motivation is to
replace e.g. video elements with fitting fallbacks (video playback
applet, third party plugins like VLC etc.) if the user's client doesn't
support a fitting
Oh, I see that there already was/is a discussion on querying media
format support (
http://lists.whatwg.org/pipermail/whatwg-whatwg.org/2008-August/015620.html
).
Anyway, the question when error flags are supposed to be set and if such
flags could be used to query media format support with the
Perhaps another possibility would be something similar to the current
navigagor.mimeTypes array (navigator.mediaMimeTypes?). Absolutely
old-school, but perhaps makes sense, as the ability to display certain
media types is mostly a property of the navigator/client, not as much
a property of the
Eric Carlson schrieb:
QuickTime has used this method this since it started supporting VBR
mp3 in 2000, and in practice it works quite well. I am sure that there
are degenerate cases where the initial estimate is way off, but
generally it is accurate enough that it isn't a problem. An initial
Dave Singer schrieb:
I don't think you mean 'relative' here, which I would take to be go
forward 10 seconds, but 'proportional', please go to 60% of the way
through.
Right, proportional for sure is the correct word for what I had in
mind. Thanks.
IF we are to do this, I would have thought
Silvia Pfeiffer schrieb:
In any case - if you (and also Chris Double) are satisfied with the
estimates you're getting for file duration/length - I'll stop arguing
for it. It would be nice to hear some experimental evidence about how
well it's doing, e.g. for typical movie trailers, so we can
Silvia Pfeiffer schrieb:
The duration is indeed jumping quite a bit between 8min and 12 min and
even at the end still has a gap of actual end time of 9m54s while the
estimate is still at 10m44s.
Actually that gap means the byte-accounting is still buggy. Hmmm...
Players like YouTube's player
;-)
On Tue, 25 Nov 2008, Maik Merten wrote:
This applet does not seek to the end of the stream to retrieve a
timestamp there.
It should. :-)
And it now does :-)
http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/trunk/cortado/src/com/fluendo/player/DurationScanner.java?view=log
Byte-position based
) from the need of using Flash on
YouTube may very well have a strategic value to Google to enhance the
effect of their open-web strategy. Anyway, that's of course something
Google will have to discuss internally.
bye,
Maik Merten
Gregory Maxwell wrote:
Perhaps then you wouldn't mind sharing the rough breakdown of how many
YouTube distributed videos are the 'high quality' files which are
encoded in H.264 and only provided on user-request vs the normal
quality, which is provided by default, and which doesn't use H.264.
Frank Hellenkamp wrote:
Well, the thing is (perhabs unfortunately because of patents and
liscensing) that you can use h264 with the video tag (in safari and
chrome), but at the same time you can send the same video to every old
browser with the flash player 9 or 10, because it also supports
Hi Chris,
I provide an additional comparison at
http://people.xiph.org/~maikmerten/youtube/ using different content.
This doesn't qualify as more movement/action (it's hard to get free HD
samples of such content in good quality), but content like the one I
used is common nonetheless on community
Hi David,
that's an interesting comparison because it's a bit different from what
Greg Maxwell
(http://people.xiph.org/~greg/video/ytcompare/comparison.html) and I
(http://people.xiph.org/~maikmerten/youtube/) did. The comparisons done
by Greg and me try to answer the how does Theora compare to
Maciej Stachowiak wrote:
So I don't
think it's reasonable to assume that hardware implementations will just
appear.
The dire need of ASIC hardwired-style implementations for Theora
hasn't been demonstrated either. H.264 has much higher computational
complexity, it may be interesting to
Arve Bersvendsen wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jul 2009 03:23:40 +0200, Nils Dagsson Moskopp
nils-dagsson-mosk...@dieweltistgarnichtso.net wrote:
Am Mittwoch, den 15.07.2009, 19:16 -0500 schrieb Adam Shannon:
It has been tried but Apple will not implement it due to hardware
limitations.
As if. I
Jonas Sicking wrote:
Note that hardware limitations isn't as simple as can play. For
example a portable player device uses 90% CPU to play things certainly
work, but possibly for an unacceptable short time before battery runs
out.
That's correct.
Thankfully all mentioned codecs are well
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