Re: [Wien] cohesive energy

[Zsolt Rak]

Thank you Prof. Blaha,

Your explanation makes sense. Of course an alternative method to calculate
formation and cohesive energies  would be to combine experimental data with
DFT energies, such as the method described in Phys. Rev. B 85, 115104
(2012). This way one would avoid calculations of metallic/gaseous phases
and of free atoms.

Thanks,
Zsolt

On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 2:22 PM, Peter Blaha 
wrote:

> I would answer it differently:
>
> No, it does not really make sense to use LDA+U for an atom;  but there are
> not many other chances to calculate formation or cohesive energies.
>
> For such quantities one MUST do all calculations with exactly the same
> calculational parameters and of course also with identical
> DFT-approximations.
>
> In all cases, where for one or the other system a certain approximation is
> not very good, the corresponding E-differences are of course very
> problematic.
>
> So if you compare a TM oxide with free TM and O atoms, all approximations
> must be the same.
>
> Of course for a TMO GGA+U is probably much better, but I would NOT say
> this for a free atom.
> You can test the sensitivity of your results be repeating the same
> E-difference using GGA (or even better a meta-GGA), i.e. you treat the atom
> more meaningful, but may even have a "metallic" TMO.
>
> The situation is similar for a formation energy of a TMO with respect to
> the metallic element and O2. GGA+U for bcc Fe with a sizable U gives
> magnetic moments up to 3 mB !
>
>
>
> Am 13.05.2016 um 19:42 schrieb Zsolt Rak:
>
>> Does it make sense to perform LDA+U/GGA+U calculation on free, isolated
>> atom?
>>
>> On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 11:47 AM, Laurence Marks
>> > wrote:
>>
>> To obtain reasonable results you have to be fully consistent with
>> everything, e.g. RMT, RKMAX, U's etc.
>>
>> On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 10:37 AM, Zsolt Rak > > wrote:
>>
>> ​​
>> Dear users,
>>
>> I am calculating the cohesive energy of a series of transition
>> metal (TM) oxides and I have the following questions: because
>> the energy of the TMO is calculated within the LDA+U framework
>> should I use the same LDA+U for the free atoms? Does it make
>> sense to subtract LDA+U/GGA+U energies of oxides from LDA/GGA
>> energies of free atoms? Does it make sense to use LDA+U/GGA+U
>> for free atom calculations?
>> Thanks,
>> Zsolt
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Professor Laurence Marks
>> "Research is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what
>> nobody else has thought", Albert Szent-Gyorgi
>> www.numis.northwestern.edu
>>  ; Corrosion in 4D:
>> MURI4D.numis.northwestern.edu 
>> Partner of the CFW 100% program for gender
>> equity, www.cfw.org/100-percent 
>> Co-Editor, Acta Cryst A
>>
>> ___
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>>
>>
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> --
> --
> Peter BLAHA, Inst.f. Materials Chemistry, TU Vienna, A-1060 Vienna
> Phone: +43-1-58801-165300 FAX: +43-1-58801-165982
> Email: bl...@theochem.tuwien.ac.atWIEN2k: http://www.wien2k.at
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Re: [Wien] cohesive energy

[Peter Blaha]

I would answer it differently:

No, it does not really make sense to use LDA+U for an atom;  but there 
are not many other chances to calculate formation or cohesive energies.


For such quantities one MUST do all calculations with exactly the same 
calculational parameters and of course also with identical 
DFT-approximations.


In all cases, where for one or the other system a certain approximation 
is not very good, the corresponding E-differences are of course very 
problematic.


So if you compare a TM oxide with free TM and O atoms, all 
approximations must be the same.


Of course for a TMO GGA+U is probably much better, but I would NOT say 
this for a free atom.
You can test the sensitivity of your results be repeating the same 
E-difference using GGA (or even better a meta-GGA), i.e. you treat the 
atom more meaningful, but may even have a "metallic" TMO.


The situation is similar for a formation energy of a TMO with respect to 
the metallic element and O2. GGA+U for bcc Fe with a sizable U gives 
magnetic moments up to 3 mB !




Am 13.05.2016 um 19:42 schrieb Zsolt Rak:

Does it make sense to perform LDA+U/GGA+U calculation on free, isolated
atom?

On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 11:47 AM, Laurence Marks
> wrote:

To obtain reasonable results you have to be fully consistent with
everything, e.g. RMT, RKMAX, U's etc.

On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 10:37 AM, Zsolt Rak > wrote:

​​
Dear users,

I am calculating the cohesive energy of a series of transition
metal (TM) oxides and I have the following questions: because
the energy of the TMO is calculated within the LDA+U framework
should I use the same LDA+U for the free atoms? Does it make
sense to subtract LDA+U/GGA+U energies of oxides from LDA/GGA
energies of free atoms? Does it make sense to use LDA+U/GGA+U
for free atom calculations?
Thanks,
Zsolt




--
Professor Laurence Marks
"Research is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what
nobody else has thought", Albert Szent-Gyorgi
www.numis.northwestern.edu
 ; Corrosion in 4D:
MURI4D.numis.northwestern.edu 
Partner of the CFW 100% program for gender
equity, www.cfw.org/100-percent 
Co-Editor, Acta Cryst A

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--
--
Peter BLAHA, Inst.f. Materials Chemistry, TU Vienna, A-1060 Vienna
Phone: +43-1-58801-165300 FAX: +43-1-58801-165982
Email: bl...@theochem.tuwien.ac.atWIEN2k: http://www.wien2k.at
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Re: [Wien] cohesive energy

[Zsolt Rak]

Does it make sense to perform LDA+U/GGA+U calculation on free, isolated
atom?

On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 11:47 AM, Laurence Marks 
wrote:

> To obtain reasonable results you have to be fully consistent with
> everything, e.g. RMT, RKMAX, U's etc.
>
> On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 10:37 AM, Zsolt Rak  wrote:
>
>> ​​
>> Dear users,
>>
>> I am calculating the cohesive energy of a series of transition metal (TM)
>> oxides and I have the following questions: because the energy of the TMO is
>> calculated within the LDA+U framework should I use the same LDA+U for the
>> free atoms? Does it make sense to subtract LDA+U/GGA+U energies of oxides
>> from LDA/GGA energies of free atoms? Does it make sense to use LDA+U/GGA+U
>> for free atom calculations?
>> Thanks,
>> Zsolt
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Professor Laurence Marks
> "Research is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody
> else has thought", Albert Szent-Gyorgi
> www.numis.northwestern.edu ; Corrosion in 4D:
> MURI4D.numis.northwestern.edu
> Partner of the CFW 100% program for gender equity, www.cfw.org/100-percent
> Co-Editor, Acta Cryst A
>
> ___
> Wien mailing list
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> http://zeus.theochem.tuwien.ac.at/mailman/listinfo/wien
> SEARCH the MAILING-LIST at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/wien@zeus.theochem.tuwien.ac.at/index.html
>
>
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Re: [Wien] cohesive energy

[Laurence Marks]

Yes

On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 12:42 PM, Zsolt Rak  wrote:

> Does it make sense to perform LDA+U/GGA+U calculation on free, isolated
> atom?
>
> On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 11:47 AM, Laurence Marks  > wrote:
>
>> To obtain reasonable results you have to be fully consistent with
>> everything, e.g. RMT, RKMAX, U's etc.
>>
>> On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 10:37 AM, Zsolt Rak  wrote:
>>
>>> ​​
>>> Dear users,
>>>
>>> I am calculating the cohesive energy of a series of transition metal
>>> (TM) oxides and I have the following questions: because the energy of the
>>> TMO is calculated within the LDA+U framework should I use the same LDA+U
>>> for the free atoms? Does it make sense to subtract LDA+U/GGA+U energies of
>>> oxides from LDA/GGA energies of free atoms? Does it make sense to use
>>> LDA+U/GGA+U for free atom calculations?
>>> Thanks,
>>> Zsolt
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Professor Laurence Marks
>> "Research is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what
>> nobody else has thought", Albert Szent-Gyorgi
>> www.numis.northwestern.edu ; Corrosion in 4D:
>> MURI4D.numis.northwestern.edu
>> Partner of the CFW 100% program for gender equity,
>> www.cfw.org/100-percent
>> Co-Editor, Acta Cryst A
>>
>> ___
>> Wien mailing list
>> Wien@zeus.theochem.tuwien.ac.at
>> http://zeus.theochem.tuwien.ac.at/mailman/listinfo/wien
>> SEARCH the MAILING-LIST at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/wien@zeus.theochem.tuwien.ac.at/index.html
>>
>>
>


-- 
Professor Laurence Marks
"Research is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody
else has thought", Albert Szent-Gyorgi
www.numis.northwestern.edu ; Corrosion in 4D: MURI4D.numis.northwestern.edu
Partner of the CFW 100% program for gender equity, www.cfw.org/100-percent
Co-Editor, Acta Cryst A
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Re: [Wien] cohesive energy

[Laurence Marks]

To obtain reasonable results you have to be fully consistent with
everything, e.g. RMT, RKMAX, U's etc.

On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 10:37 AM, Zsolt Rak  wrote:

> ​​
> Dear users,
>
> I am calculating the cohesive energy of a series of transition metal (TM)
> oxides and I have the following questions: because the energy of the TMO is
> calculated within the LDA+U framework should I use the same LDA+U for the
> free atoms? Does it make sense to subtract LDA+U/GGA+U energies of oxides
> from LDA/GGA energies of free atoms? Does it make sense to use LDA+U/GGA+U
> for free atom calculations?
> Thanks,
> Zsolt
>



-- 
Professor Laurence Marks
"Research is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody
else has thought", Albert Szent-Gyorgi
www.numis.northwestern.edu ; Corrosion in 4D: MURI4D.numis.northwestern.edu
Partner of the CFW 100% program for gender equity, www.cfw.org/100-percent
Co-Editor, Acta Cryst A
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[Wien] cohesive energy

[Zsolt Rak]

​​
Dear users,

I am calculating the cohesive energy of a series of transition metal (TM)
oxides and I have the following questions: because the energy of the TMO is
calculated within the LDA+U framework should I use the same LDA+U for the
free atoms? Does it make sense to subtract LDA+U/GGA+U energies of oxides
from LDA/GGA energies of free atoms? Does it make sense to use LDA+U/GGA+U
for free atom calculations?
Thanks,
Zsolt
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Re: [Wien] cohesive-energy

[tran]

Hi,

Yes you can choose P instead of F. Beside this, it is important
to reduce the symmetry (e.g., from cubic to orthorhombic) for
atoms with an open shell (most free atoms are magnetic) in order to reach
the proper electronic ground state. I attached the struct file (P) that I
used for a free Na atom. Usually, a box of 12x12x12 angstrom is large
enough except for the heavy alkali and alkali-earth atoms.

For RMT and RKMAX, you have to test. It is important to choose the same
parameters for the bulk and free atom.

F. Tran

On Mon, 17 Aug 2015, Seyyed Amir Abbas Emami wrote:


​Dear users.

I am trying to calculate cohesive energy. As it is mentioned in FAQ, we must 
create FCC supercell and also use identical RKmax and RMT. Now i have two 
question?

1- Can i choose Cubic (P) supercell instead of FCC. In other words, is there 
any reason for that choosing?
2- what is the good or best value for RKmax or RMT. (actually i automatically 
chose RMT for one element equal to 2.5 and consequently RKmax also 2.5. Is this 
value valid?)


Thank you in advance.


Na 
P   LATTICE,NONEQUIV.ATOMS:  1 
MODE OF CALC=RELA unit=ang 
 22.676723 22.771209 22.865695 90.00 90.00 90.00   
ATOM  -1: X=0. Y=0. Z=0.
  MULT= 1  ISPLIT= 8
Na NPT=  781  R0=0.0001 RMT=2.   Z: 11.0   
LOCAL ROT MATRIX:1.000 0.000 0.000
 0.000 1.000 0.000
 0.000 0.000 1.000
   8  NUMBER OF SYMMETRY OPERATIONS
-1 0 0 0.
 0-1 0 0.
 0 0-1 0.
   1
-1 0 0 0.
 0-1 0 0.
 0 0 1 0.
   2
-1 0 0 0.
 0 1 0 0.
 0 0-1 0.
   3
-1 0 0 0.
 0 1 0 0.
 0 0 1 0.
   4
 1 0 0 0.
 0-1 0 0.
 0 0-1 0.
   5
 1 0 0 0.
 0-1 0 0.
 0 0 1 0.
   6
 1 0 0 0.
 0 1 0 0.
 0 0-1 0.
   7
 1 0 0 0.
 0 1 0 0.
 0 0 1 0.
   8
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[Wien] cohesive-energy

[Seyyed Amir Abbas Emami]

​Dear users.

I am trying to calculate cohesive energy. As it is mentioned in FAQ, we must 
create FCC supercell and also use identical RKmax and RMT. Now i have two 
question?

1- Can i choose Cubic (P) supercell instead of FCC. In other words, is there 
any reason for that choosing?
2- what is the good or best value for RKmax or RMT. (actually i automatically 
chose RMT for one element equal to 2.5 and consequently RKmax also 2.5. Is this 
value valid?)


Thank you in advance.

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Re: [Wien] cohesive-energy

[tran]

Orthorhombic means that the lattice constants a, b and c are not
equal. P means primitive, which is one of the lattice types
(see Table 4.4 in users's guide). The unit cell for Na has
orthorhombic symmetry and is of lattice type P.

The wave function of the electronic state with the lowest total
energy can eventually have a symmetry which is lower than cubic.
If this is the case, then you need to reduce the symmetry to
obtain this state. The use of an orthorhombic symmetry should
be enough in every case.

F. Tran

If the symmetry is too high (e.g., cubic)

On Mon, 17 Aug 2015, Seyyed Amir Abbas Emami wrote:


​Thank you dear Tran.

It was completely helpful.But what is the role of symmetry in calculating 
cohesive energy as you said reduce cubic to orthorhombic for open shell 
atoms.Also for
Na which is open sell, you use P instead of orthorhombic.


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Re: [Wien] cohesive-energy

[Seyyed Amir Abbas Emami]

​Thank you dear Tran.

It was completely helpful.But what is the role of symmetry in calculating 
cohesive energy as you said reduce cubic to orthorhombic for open shell 
atoms.Also for Na which is open sell, you use P instead of orthorhombic.

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[Wien] cohesive energy of Zirconium

[mayank gupta]

Dear Sir i didn't get the method how to calculate the atomic density
with LAPW please give me some detail I am very new in this field. I
tried it from last month.
thanks

-- 
Mayank kumar gupta

[Wien] cohesive energy calculation

[Stefaan Cottenier]

 I am new user . I am trying  to find the energy of Zr(hcp) metal when
 lattice parameter are too long more than 10A but for such big lattice
 constant scf cycle is not running and showed an error message in
 lapw0. Is it installation problem while it is running for real lattice
 parameter.

For cohesive energies you need a 'free atom', which is better 
represented by a fcc cell with very large lattice constant than by your 
original solid blown up. You are probably suffering from problems in the 
unphysical transition region between solid and atom. See the FAQ 
(http://www.wien2k.at/reg_user/faq/cohesive.html) for instructions on 
how to run the 'free atom' calculations.

Stefaan

[Wien] cohesive energy calculation

[mayank gupta]

Hi
I am new user . I am trying  to find the energy of Zr(hcp) metal when
lattice parameter are too long more than 10A but for such big lattice
constant scf cycle is not running and showed an error message in
lapw0. Is it installation problem while it is running for real lattice
parameter.


-- 
mayank

[Wien] Cohesive energy in Wien2k

[Stefaan Cottenier]

 I wish to calculate cohesive energy of CsCl using FP-LAPW. Can you 
 please guide me about the file which consist it.

See http://www.wien2k.at/reg_user/faq/cohesive.html

Stefaan


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