[Bug 18829] Tables without explicit border attributes lose border styles when cut-and-pasted
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18829 Bartosz Dziewoński changed: What|Removed |Added Keywords|patch, patch-reviewed | Status|REOPENED|RESOLVED CC||matma@gmail.com Resolution|--- |WONTFIX --- Comment #44 from Bartosz Dziewoński --- WONTFIXing per Andre and per no response. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 18829] Tables without explicit border attributes lose border styles when cut-and-pasted
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18829 Andre Klapper changed: What|Removed |Added Keywords||patch-reviewed CC||aklap...@wikimedia.org --- Comment #43 from Andre Klapper --- Proposing WONTFIX - I don't see that setting border="1" is actually wanted here. In any case, this patch should go into Gerrit: You are welcome to use Developer access https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Developer_access to submit this as a Git branch directly into Gerrit: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Git/Tutorial Putting your branch in Git makes it easier to review it quickly. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 18829] Tables without explicit border attributes lose border styles when cut-and-pasted
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18829 --- Comment #42 from jida...@jidanni.org 2011-04-25 00:10:02 UTC --- (In reply to comment #41) > border=0 is redundant. You don't need it to achieve that effect. OK, but it makes things explicit, e.g., for Comment #10. And I don't see why they insist on making it invalid, just to break compatibility with HTML4. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 18829] Tables without explicit border attributes lose border styles when cut-and-pasted
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18829 --- Comment #41 from Aryeh Gregor 2011-04-24 18:31:24 UTC --- (In reply to comment #38) > The semantic meaning of "border=1" is "this is definitely not a layout table, > don't you dare treat it like one". The semantic meaning of "border=0" is > "this > *is* a layout table". No, border=0 could be a non-layout table that you don't want to have a border for whatever reason. There are such things. It doesn't have any semantic meaning. The semantic meaning for border=1 was made up by HTML5. > The HTML5 spec deprecates layout tables even more > strongly than its predecessors, and in particular indicates that they "must" > be > marked with an attribute "role=presentation". This is actually a point of divergence between the W3C and WHATWG copies: the W3C allows role=presentation on tables, the WHATWG prohibits it. http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/tabular-data.html#the-table-element http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/tabular-data.html#the-table-element Not that it makes much difference, since both of them say role=presentation on a table is valid. (In reply to comment #39) > Why take away people's ability to do the first of > $ w3m -dump a.html > a b > 1 2 border=0 is redundant. You don't need it to achieve that effect. $ cat a.html a b c d $ w3m -dump a.html a b c d -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 18829] Tables without explicit border attributes lose border styles when cut-and-pasted
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18829 --- Comment #40 from Happy-melon 2011-04-23 22:03:56 UTC --- Because the spec says that coding things in that fashion is undesirable and deprecated and people should be discouraged from doing it. I'm not necessarily saying that I agree with that, but that's the position they're working from. The area that you're looking at is, to them, the loose ends of a much larger issue; if you don't interact with them on that basis, you're just rearranging deckchairs on the Titanic. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 18829] Tables without explicit border attributes lose border styles when cut-and-pasted
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18829 --- Comment #39 from jida...@jidanni.org 2011-04-23 21:43:25 UTC --- Why take away people's ability to do the first of $ w3m -dump a.html a b 1 2 $ w3m -dump b.html +---+ |a|b| |-+-| |1|2| +---+ -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 18829] Tables without explicit border attributes lose border styles when cut-and-pasted
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18829
--- Comment #38 from Happy-melon 2011-04-22
22:24:32 UTC ---
The semantic meaning of "border=1" is "this is definitely not a layout table,
don't you dare treat it like one". The semantic meaning of "border=0" is "this
*is* a layout table". The HTML5 spec deprecates layout tables even more
strongly than its predecessors, and in particular indicates that they "must" be
marked with an attribute "role=presentation". The "border=0" marker makes no
sense in the spec because it gives no additional data. Now the OP of that bug
is correct to note that this tableless nirvana, while a worthy goal, is not
currently a feature of the web environment that HTML5 is being launched into,
but that bug (and W3C's perspective) is about interoperability between a new
standard and old websites. There is no reason for new MediaWiki code to
support what will, if at all, be introduced as a deprecated feature ("users may
do X, but should not do so; UAs should interpret it as Y"). Rather, we should
be supporting the spec's positively-endorsed implementations (in this case,
preferably not using layout tables at all, and if we do, marking them with
"role=presentation". There should never be a need to introduce deprecated
syntax, and so no reason for us to support it.
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[Bug 18829] Tables without explicit border attributes lose border styles when cut-and-pasted
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18829 --- Comment #37 from jida...@jidanni.org 2011-04-22 03:22:32 UTC --- (In reply to comment #36) > The spec now permits Thanks for the heads up. Now we will see there on http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=12413 if they can also figure out that they also need border="0", Ah, tables, "Just like mom used to make", http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_npZF7Ah6s8 -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 18829] Tables without explicit border attributes lose border styles when cut-and-pasted
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18829 --- Comment #36 from Aryeh Gregor 2011-04-21 17:34:17 UTC --- The spec now permits : http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011Apr/0377.html http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/tabular-data.html#attr-table-border -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 18829] Tables without explicit border attributes lose border styles when cut-and-pasted
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18829 --- Comment #35 from jida...@jidanni.org 2011-04-05 01:13:45 UTC --- And how else can text browsers still distinguish which tables really don't want borders, without implementing CSS? -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 18829] Tables without explicit border attributes lose border styles when cut-and-pasted
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18829 --- Comment #34 from jida...@jidanni.org 2011-04-03 22:29:08 UTC --- So then then why spitefully cause peoples pages who used it to become invalid? And if they break this, what next will they spitefully break for no reason in HTML6? -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are watching all bug changes. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 18829] Tables without explicit border attributes lose border styles when cut-and-pasted
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18829 --- Comment #33 from Aryeh Gregor 2011-04-03 22:08:43 UTC --- Oops, didn't realize it was secret. Obnoxious of them. It's not really secret, since anyone can apply to be an Invited Expert in the HTMLWG, but whatever. It will close tomorrow night, and the chairs will judge it within the next few weeks. (In reply to comment #32) > please tell them to also allow border="0"! What's the point of this? Don't tables have no border by default? -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are watching all bug changes. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 18829] Tables without explicit border attributes lose border styles when cut-and-pasted
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18829 --- Comment #32 from jida...@jidanni.org 2011-04-02 00:54:27 UTC --- I don't think we common people are allowed to comment there. Besides it is mostly over my head. However, please tell them to also allow border="0"! Stop pulling the rug out of people who want their HTML to work as intended in both HTML4 and HTML5. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are watching all bug changes. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 18829] Tables without explicit border attributes lose border styles when cut-and-pasted
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18829 --- Comment #31 from jida...@jidanni.org 2011-04-02 00:34:02 UTC --- (In reply to comment #30) http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/155 perhaps. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are watching all bug changes. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 18829] Tables without explicit border attributes lose border styles when cut-and-pasted
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18829 --- Comment #30 from Happy-melon 2011-04-01 23:58:01 UTC --- (In reply to comment #29) > FWIW, the HTMLWG is currently debating the validity of this, under the name > ISSUE-155. There's a survey up now, which will close on Monday, and the > chairs > will likely make a decision within a few weeks: > > http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/40318/issue-155-objection-poll/ That link is under an http_auth wall, for me at least. Is there a public link? -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are watching all bug changes. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 18829] Tables without explicit border attributes lose border styles when cut-and-pasted
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18829 --- Comment #29 from Aryeh Gregor 2011-04-01 22:19:14 UTC --- FWIW, the HTMLWG is currently debating the validity of this, under the name ISSUE-155. There's a survey up now, which will close on Monday, and the chairs will likely make a decision within a few weeks: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/40318/issue-155-objection-poll/ -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are watching all bug changes. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 18829] Tables without explicit border attributes lose border styles when cut-and-pasted
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18829 Rodan BURY changed: What|Removed |Added Keywords|accessibility | CC||bury.ro...@gmail.com --- Comment #28 from Rodan BURY 2010-09-16 19:51:56 UTC --- I removed the "accessibility" keyword since this is by no means an accessibility issue. Maybe an interoperability issue. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 18829] Tables without explicit border attributes lose border styles when cut-and-pasted
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18829 --- Comment #27 from Aryeh Gregor 2009-08-19 21:43:43 UTC --- Seems like a minor enough issue that we may as well stick with what the standard says, which is also fewer bytes/more elegant. We don't produce many tables in the actual software that anyone would be interested in copying, do we? I'd expect people mostly copy infoboxes and such. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 18829] Tables without explicit border attributes lose border styles when cut-and-pasted
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18829 Brion Vibber changed: What|Removed |Added CC||br...@wikimedia.org Status|RESOLVED|REOPENED Resolution|WONTFIX | --- Comment #26 from Brion Vibber 2009-08-19 20:27:11 UTC --- Reopening now that there's actually some visible result under discussion. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 18829] Tables without explicit border attributes lose border styles when cut-and-pasted
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18829 Brion Vibber changed: What|Removed |Added Summary|Add border="1" to tables, |Tables without explicit |not just their stylesheets |border attributes lose ||border styles when cut-and- ||pasted --- Comment #25 from Brion Vibber 2009-08-19 20:02:06 UTC --- Clarifying subject. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
