[Bug 43917] Delete all redundant "MediaWiki" pages for system messages
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43917 --- Comment #29 from Krinkle --- Ran for commonswiki per my own request there as sysop (could've deleted them by hand): > 279 pages in the MediaWiki namespace override messages. > 1 pages are equal to the default message (+ 0 talk pages). > > List: > * [[MediaWiki:Visualeditor-ca-editsource]] -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 43917] Delete all redundant "MediaWiki" pages for system messages
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43917 --- Comment #28 from Krinkle --- Spread over the past two weeks, mwscript deleteEqualMessages.php was ran[1] on the following wikis while performing other routine maintenance and interface fixes: abwiki afwiki afwikiquote alswiki bat-smgwiki bpywiki cswiki cswikiversity cswiktionary cvwiki lnwiki nahwiktionary newwiki nlwiki rowiktionary simplewiki sqwiki suwiki tlwiki [1] https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Server_admin_log -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 43917] Delete all redundant "MediaWiki" pages for system messages
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43917 --- Comment #27 from Krinkle --- (In reply to Nemo from comment #26) > Thanks! I'd suggest to avoid touching talk pages, so that the operation is > truly no-op. Those talk pages are unlikely to exist but wikis have different > policies on the matter. Good point. We have orphan tools to detect those and are indeed not always trivial/uncontroversial. Will keep them from now on. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 43917] Delete all redundant "MediaWiki" pages for system messages
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43917 --- Comment #26 from Nemo --- Thanks! I'd suggest to avoid touching talk pages, so that the operation is truly no-op. Those talk pages are unlikely to exist but wikis have different policies on the matter. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 43917] Delete all redundant "MediaWiki" pages for system messages
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43917 --- Comment #25 from Krinkle --- Ran mwscript deleteEqualMessages.php --delete --delete-talk on the following wikis: * afwiki * amwiki * brwiki * euwiktionary * gvwiki * hrwiki * hrwiktionary * iawiki * miwiki * mlwiki -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 43917] Delete all redundant "MediaWiki" pages for system messages
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43917 --- Comment #24 from Krinkle --- Done! $ mwscript deleteEqualMessages.php --wiki wuuwiki --delete Checking for pages with default message... ... fetching message info for content language 352 pages in the MediaWiki namespace override messages. 110 pages are equal to the default message (+ 0 talk pages). ...deleting equal messages (this may take a long time!)... * [[MediaWiki:Sitematrix]] * [[MediaWiki:Cite]] * [[MediaWiki:Searchfulltext]] * [[MediaWiki:Createarticle]] * [[MediaWiki:Categorytree-mode-categories]] * [[MediaWiki:Categorytree-expand]] * [[MediaWiki:Categorytree-no-pages]] * [[MediaWiki:Sitesupport]] * [[MediaWiki:Fri]] * [[MediaWiki:January-gen]] * [[MediaWiki:March-gen]] * [[MediaWiki:May-gen]] * [[MediaWiki:September-gen]] * [[MediaWiki:October-gen]] * [[MediaWiki:November-gen]] * [[MediaWiki:Mypage]] * [[MediaWiki:History short]] * [[MediaWiki:Print]] * [[MediaWiki:Mainpage]] * [[MediaWiki:Nstab-template]] * [[MediaWiki:Logout]] * [[MediaWiki:Userlogout]] * [[MediaWiki:Notloggedin]] * [[MediaWiki:Loginerror]] * [[MediaWiki:Loginsuccesstitle]] * [[MediaWiki:Wrongpassword]] * [[MediaWiki:Bold sample]] * [[MediaWiki:Bold tip]] * [[MediaWiki:Savearticle]] * [[MediaWiki:Loginreqtitle]] * [[MediaWiki:Loginreqlink]] * [[MediaWiki:Yourdiff]] * [[MediaWiki:Nohistory]] * [[MediaWiki:Nextrevision]] * [[MediaWiki:Rev-delundel]] * [[MediaWiki:Prevn]] * [[MediaWiki:Prefs-personal]] * [[MediaWiki:Prefs-rc]] * [[MediaWiki:Prefs-watchlist]] * [[MediaWiki:Prefs-watchlist-days]] * [[MediaWiki:Prefs-watchlist-edits]] * [[MediaWiki:Saveprefs]] * [[MediaWiki:Searchresultshead]] * [[MediaWiki:Savedprefs]] * [[MediaWiki:Yourlanguage]] * [[MediaWiki:Badsig]] * [[MediaWiki:Userrights-user-editname]] * [[MediaWiki:Rclistfrom]] * [[MediaWiki:Diff]] * [[MediaWiki:Hist]] * [[MediaWiki:Show]] * [[MediaWiki:Minoreditletter]] * [[MediaWiki:Newpageletter]] * [[MediaWiki:Uploadbtn]] * [[MediaWiki:Uploadnologin]] * [[MediaWiki:Uploaderror]] * [[MediaWiki:Uploadlog]] * [[MediaWiki:Uploadlogpagetext]] * [[MediaWiki:Filedesc]] * [[MediaWiki:Uploadedfiles]] * [[MediaWiki:Uploadwarning]] * [[MediaWiki:Savefile]] * [[MediaWiki:Destfilename]] * [[MediaWiki:Uploadnewversion-linktext]] * [[MediaWiki:Download]] * [[MediaWiki:Listredirects]] * [[MediaWiki:Randompage]] * [[MediaWiki:Statistics]] * [[MediaWiki:Brokenredirects]] * [[MediaWiki:Popularpages]] * [[MediaWiki:Mostlinked]] * [[MediaWiki:Mostlinkedcategories]] * [[MediaWiki:Mostimages]] * [[MediaWiki:Shortpages]] * [[MediaWiki:Longpages]] * [[MediaWiki:Listusers]] * [[MediaWiki:Newpages-username]] * [[MediaWiki:Log]] * [[MediaWiki:Emailsend]] * [[MediaWiki:Emailsent]] * [[MediaWiki:Emailsenttext]] * [[MediaWiki:Watchthispage]] * [[MediaWiki:Unwatchthispage]] * [[MediaWiki:Created]] * [[MediaWiki:Confirm]] * [[MediaWiki:Deletionlog]] * [[MediaWiki:Rollback]] * [[MediaWiki:Rollback short]] * [[MediaWiki:Rollbackfailed]] * [[MediaWiki:Protectlogpage]] * [[MediaWiki:Restriction-edit]] * [[MediaWiki:Restriction-move]] * [[MediaWiki:Undeletepage]] * [[MediaWiki:Mycontris]] * [[MediaWiki:Blocklink]] * [[MediaWiki:Blocklogpage]] * [[MediaWiki:Movepagebtn]] * [[MediaWiki:Cantmove-titleprotected]] * [[MediaWiki:Thumbnail-more]] * [[MediaWiki:Newimages]] * [[MediaWiki:Variantname-zh-tw]] * [[MediaWiki:Watchlistall2]] * [[MediaWiki:Namespacesall]] * [[MediaWiki:Descending abbrev]] * [[MediaWiki:Table pager next]] * [[MediaWiki:Table pager prev]] * [[MediaWiki:Table pager first]] * [[MediaWiki:Table pager limit]] * [[MediaWiki:Autoredircomment]] * [[MediaWiki:Version]] done! -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 43917] Delete all redundant "MediaWiki" pages for system messages
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43917 PiRSquared17 changed: What|Removed |Added CC||pirsquare...@gmail.com --- Comment #23 from PiRSquared17 --- This was requested to be run on wuuwiki: https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Steward_requests/Miscellaneous&oldid=7913568#Remove_useless_system_messages_on_wuu_wikipedia -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 43917] Delete all redundant "MediaWiki" pages for system messages
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43917 --- Comment #22 from Nemo --- Krinkle, are you still planning to work on this? -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 43917] Delete all redundant "MediaWiki" pages for system messages
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43917 --- Comment #21 from Krinkle --- The short version of the long story (that is partially outlined in previous comments by all of you) is that it: * Was never consistent to be begin with. * It has changed over time. So we can't reliably know now what to do with a message. You'd have to account for deployment dates for different wikis and assume a community member intentionally left a message override untouched knowing the new behaviour. More likely it was forgotten about and is actually still assuming the old logic. * It can vary by message whether it is blankable or disableable. If the code calls isBlank first (like Sitenotice) then it can be blanked with '' without leaving a gap in the interface because the feature checks it first. If the code calls isDisabled first, and then falls back or something, then it can be blanked with '' or '-' and it will use the default. However by far the default behaviour for the majority of messages is that if you create a local page, it replaces the message with that page. And if you put '' or '-' in it, it will appear as a gap in the interface. Either way, those pages are there with empty content for a reason, so it doesn't make sense to delete them en mass as part of this maintenance script. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 43917] Delete all redundant "MediaWiki" pages for system messages
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43917 --- Comment #20 from Nemo --- Blanking a message no longer disables it (bug 14176), so all pre-12.06.2013 blankings should be transformed in deletions. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 43917] Delete all redundant "MediaWiki" pages for system messages
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43917 --- Comment #19 from Platonides --- I'm confused by comment #12 and #13 then, I understood from them that '' no longer meant default. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 43917] Delete all redundant "MediaWiki" pages for system messages
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43917
--- Comment #18 from Krinkle ---
(In reply to comment #16)
> > Even the "redundant" messages getting deleted makes me a little sad, given
> > how useful some of that page history can be (including being linked from
> > active
> > bug reports). But I understand that it's better future-proofing. Alas.
>
> I remember blanking some MediaWiki messages precisely to use the default but
> keep the history.
> Maybe the script should edit the messages to whatever is used now to mean
> "use
> the default" ("-" ?) when there are several edits to the page.
Sometimes '', sometimes '-' (handled by Message:isBlank and
Message::isDisabled) however those are not generic APIs. The message system
does not use these methods. They are available for local code to use if they
want to.
So there's no way of knowing whether an individual message "supports" that
behaviour, and even then we currently have some use '' and some use '-' ('' is
a safe bet for both).
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[Bug 43917] Delete all redundant "MediaWiki" pages for system messages
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43917 --- Comment #17 from Krinkle --- (In reply to comment #15) > I've run this on a single wiki where I'm also a local sysop (nlwiki) and > noticed the script has a minor flaw. > > It incorrectly deleted MediaWiki:Sitenotice. Fixed in I5b416cda25a3641862df9919c46ae59ad5d5d6e0. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 43917] Delete all redundant "MediaWiki" pages for system messages
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43917
Platonides changed:
What|Removed |Added
CC||platoni...@gmail.com
--- Comment #16 from Platonides ---
> Even the "redundant" messages getting deleted makes me a little sad, given
> how useful some of that page history can be (including being linked from
> active
> bug reports). But I understand that it's better future-proofing. Alas.
I remember blanking some MediaWiki messages precisely to use the default but
keep the history.
Maybe the script should edit the messages to whatever is used now to mean "use
the default" ("-" ?) when there are several edits to the page.
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[Bug 43917] Delete all redundant "MediaWiki" pages for system messages
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43917 --- Comment #15 from Krinkle --- I've run this on a single wiki where I'm also a local sysop (nlwiki) and noticed the script has a minor flaw. It incorrectly deleted MediaWiki:Sitenotice (if it is empty), which is undesirable. So we should probably change the script to make an exception for empty messages. Those are most unlikely to change anyway because there is no message content to update or change, it is empty. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 43917] Delete all redundant "MediaWiki" pages for system messages
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43917 --- Comment #14 from MZMcBride --- (In reply to comment #13) > (In reply to comment #12) >> If a script to delete empty messages existed in the past, we could've run it >> once globally after we reverted the feature to have blank messages mean >> default. But it has been to long to do this now. > > What do you mean too long? It's been today for Wikipedias (1.22wmf7). Blank > message has always meant "equal to default", so it doesn't seem out of scope > for the script, which should be run by third parties before upgrading to > MediaWiki 1.22. Not always. The behavior has switched a few times now. There's no good answer here. It's impossible to determine intent simply by page_len being equal to 0. I tend to agree with Krinkle that it's better to be cautious here. Even the "redundant" messages getting deleted makes me a little sad, given how useful some of that page history can be (including being linked from active bug reports). But I understand that it's better future-proofing. Alas. > [...] [[MediaWiki 1.22]] [...] You mean [[mw:MediaWiki 1.22]], of course. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 43917] Delete all redundant "MediaWiki" pages for system messages
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43917 --- Comment #13 from Nemo --- (In reply to comment #12) > If a script to delete empty messages existed in the past, we could've run it > once globally after we reverted the feature to have blank messages mean > default. But it has been to long to do this now. What do you mean too long? It's been today for Wikipedias (1.22wmf7). Blank message has always meant "equal to default", so it doesn't seem out of scope for the script, which should be run by third parties before upgrading to MediaWiki 1.22. If you consider it out of scope I'd file a bug for another script to be created, but nobody would be working on it so it would become too late so I'll just add a warning on [[MediaWiki 1.22]] and let sysops sort it out manually. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 43917] Delete all redundant "MediaWiki" pages for system messages
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43917 --- Comment #12 from Krinkle --- (In reply to comment #11) > (In reply to comment #10) > > Related URL: https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/64991 (Gerrit Change > > I2680413c276365a44c935a6f6fdd740daa86341e) > > Merged a month ago. > > Given bug 14176 (bug 49793), the script should also delete blank messages and > be run as soon as possible; unless a separate script is prepared and run for > that only. Since blank messages no longer mean showing the default, deleting them seems inappropriate. Yes, there are likely some pages out there that are blank and currently causing bugs due the message being empty instead of the default. However it would be a mistake to unconditionally delete all blank pages in the MediaWiki namespace. For maintenance scripts like deleteEqualMessages it is important that they do not affect the interface. It should only delete things that are non-controversial. If a script to delete empty messages existed in the past, we could've run it once globally after we reverted the feature to have blank messages mean default. But it has been to long to do this now. And one could also argue that it was dangerous even then because there might be existing pages that are blank for other reasons. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 43917] Delete all redundant "MediaWiki" pages for system messages
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43917 Nemo changed: What|Removed |Added CC||niklas.laxst...@gmail.com --- Comment #11 from Nemo --- (In reply to comment #10) > Related URL: https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/64991 (Gerrit Change > I2680413c276365a44c935a6f6fdd740daa86341e) Merged a month ago. Given bug 14176 (bug 49793), the script should also delete blank messages and be run as soon as possible; unless a separate script is prepared and run for that only. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 43917] Delete all redundant "MediaWiki" pages for system messages
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43917 Bug 43917 depends on bug 48050, which changed state. Bug 48050 Summary: deleteEqualMessages: Implement ability to run on all langcode subpages https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=48050 What|Removed |Added Status|ASSIGNED|RESOLVED Resolution|--- |FIXED -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 43917] Delete all redundant "MediaWiki" pages for system messages
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43917 --- Comment #10 from Gerrit Notification Bot --- Related URL: https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/64991 (Gerrit Change I2680413c276365a44c935a6f6fdd740daa86341e) -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 43917] Delete all redundant "MediaWiki" pages for system messages
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43917 --- Comment #9 from Gerrit Notification Bot --- Related URL: https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/62159 (Gerrit Change I2680413c276365a44c935a6f6fdd740daa86341e) -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 43917] Delete all redundant "MediaWiki" pages for system messages
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43917 Krinkle changed: What|Removed |Added Depends on||48050 -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 43917] Delete all redundant "MediaWiki" pages for system messages
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43917 Nemo changed: What|Removed |Added Summary|Delete all redundant|Delete all redundant |"MediaWiki" pages |"MediaWiki" pages for ||system messages -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
