[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T103102: [Story] Take in other projects sidebar out of beta features

[IKhitron]

IKhitron added a comment.


  Hello. It works, indeed, and I can see Commons links, but not the wiktionary 
ones in some (not all) the articles. It should be like that? Thank you.

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T103102: [Story] Take in other projects sidebar out of beta features

[gerritbot]

gerritbot added a comment.

Change 270939 merged by jenkins-bot:
Take "in other projects" sidebar out of beta

https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/270939


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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T103102: [Story] Take in other projects sidebar out of beta features

[Lydia_Pintscher]

Lydia_Pintscher added a comment.

Based on the comments here we will enable it for everyone but Dutch Wikipedia. 
If there are any issues we can later disable it again for any project that 
really doesn't want it. Dutch Wikipedia probably should think about moving to 
this one.


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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T103102: [Story] Take in other projects sidebar out of beta features

[gerritbot]

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gerritbot added a comment.

Change 270939 had a related patch set uploaded (by Aude):
Take "in other projects" sidebar out of beta

https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/270939


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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T103102: [Story] Take in other projects sidebar out of beta features

[Lydia_Pintscher]

Lydia_Pintscher added a comment.

Sorry. My mistake. It is the 16th of February.


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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T103102: [Story] Take in other projects sidebar out of beta features

[Lydia_Pintscher]

Lydia_Pintscher added a comment.

WE have now scheduled this for February 23rd.


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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T103102: [Story] Take in other projects sidebar out of beta features

[putnik]

putnik added a comment.

In https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T103102#1933779, @Romaine wrote:

> On nl-wiki we give a preference to linking to Commons categories as those 
> form the basic navigational system, and not to Commons galleries that are 
> often considered not useful. If we set the Wikibase as a basic, this will 
> override the links we have set ourselves. I am not sure if that would be 
> considered acceptable.


The Russian Wikipedia community also prefers links to Commons categories. But 
at the same time "in other projects" sidebar is used from the very beginning, 
and it is no problem. There is an additional script that checks for the Commons 
category (by property 373, but you can use other methods), and replaces the 
link to the gallery with link to the category.


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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T103102: [Story] Take in other projects sidebar out of beta features

[Lydia_Pintscher]

Lydia_Pintscher added a comment.

@putnik: we can not do that on more wikis. It fries the servers. We need 
another solution that hoo is working on right now.


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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T103102: [Story] Take in other projects sidebar out of beta features

[putnik]

putnik added a comment.

@Lydia_Pintscher: I'm optimized script a little to take the Commons link from 
the page if it have already been displayed via Lua. But for other projects this 
is probably not suitable.


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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T103102: [Story] Take in other projects sidebar out of beta features

[Nemo_bis]

Nemo_bis added a comment.

We should probably immediately replace the code at 
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:InterProject.js with 
https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:InterProject.js, which AFAIK is fully 
compatible.


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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T103102: [Story] Take in other projects sidebar out of beta features

[Tpt]

Tpt added a comment.

@Romaine You could maybe do just like Russian Wikipedia or the French 
Wikisource and use the Wikibase other project sidebar as a basic and add your 
additional links to it. With that nlwiki would have a basic sidebar for without 
JavaScript readers and you would be able to avoid the need of having a div 
hidden somewhere to fill this sidebar in cases where Wikidata contains already 
all the information needed (which is I think the most common case).


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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T103102: [Story] Take in other projects sidebar out of beta features

[Jheald]

Jheald added a subscriber: Jheald.
Jheald added a comment.

It's good to see this going forwards at last.

But what is the progress with two long-standing requests ?

- Moving the standard "wikidata item" link into this group, to make it easier 
to find ?
- Attempting by default to include a link both to a Commons category and to a 
Commons gallery in the group ?


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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T103102: [Story] Take in other projects sidebar out of beta features

[Romaine]

Romaine added a subscriber: Romaine.
Romaine added a comment.

On nl-wiki we have for years an alternative larger system that already shows 
the interwiki links to sister projects in the sidebar. Enabling this for 
everyone on nl-wiki is useless and in almost all the cases duplicate to the 
already existing ones (already shown to everyone), which is much more extensive 
than the current Beta system.

If you have enabled the Beta system, it is shown duplicate. Like:
https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynes'_graszanger
https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/3FM_Serious_Request_2015


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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T103102: [Story] Take in other projects sidebar out of beta features

[Lydia_Pintscher]

Lydia_Pintscher added a comment.

Every preference we add adds clutter, maintenance cost and most importantly 
makes it harder for users to find what they actually want in the preferences. 
So any additional option we add needs to be very well justified and actually 
make things better for a significant number of people. It is death by a 
thousand cuts otherwise.

Some things to read up on:

- 
http://uxmyths.com/post/712569752/myth-more-choices-and-features-result-in-higher-satisfac
- 
https://ux.stackexchange.com/questions/75635/when-is-configurable-options-settings-a-bad-thing-in-the-context-of-admin-super
- https://www.nngroup.com/articles/minimize-cognitive-load/


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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T103102: [Story] Take in other projects sidebar out of beta features

[Glaisher]

Glaisher added a comment.

Adding `#p-wikibase-otherprojects {display: none;}` to your stylesheet would 
work if you want to opt-out once the beta pref is removed.


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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T103102: [Story] Take in other projects sidebar out of beta features

[Billinghurst]

Billinghurst added a comment.

@nemo_bis Nowhere did I say that it was not requested, nor unwanted, however, 
it becomes all or nothing per community, and in our history we have provided 
things called user preferences to allow users to configure what they see.

Thousands have opted in, and thousands (more?!?) have not.   I am only asking 
that it continue to be optional per user and the comment is "arguably little 
gain" and I don't see that as an appropriate response, terse and unsupported by 
commentary to justify.

Preferences may or may not be "bad" is a vague and weak argument for not 
exploring the option or stating how or why they should not take place.

The process about communities getting notified, and the defaults, and what 
happens needs to be fixed, as this regularly comes up, and that belongs in a 
bug of its own. While it is unresolved, it continues to be a bugbear and a 
point of weakness/inflammation/conflagration.

The language was not meant to be aggressive, use of second person rather than 
more generic. Apologies if it seemed that way.


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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T103102: [Story] Take in other projects sidebar out of beta features

[Nemo_bis]

Nemo_bis added a comment.

In https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T103102#1892570, @Tpt wrote:

> > So basically: opt-in or opt-out?
>
> What we could do is a middle way: notify the projects that if they do not ask 
> to opt-out before this specific date the other project sidebar will be enable 
> by default for all user.


So you think a global on/off, without preference? Makes sense.


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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T103102: [Story] Take in other projects sidebar out of beta features

[Billinghurst]

Billinghurst added a subscriber: Billinghurst.
Billinghurst added a comment.

It should not be all in or all out. I would much prefer that this is within the 
scope of the individual in what they see, not enforcing more components into 
sidebars,  Please have a configuration option for a user to turn it on and off; 
and the means for a community to set a default which a community can set their 
preference.


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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T103102: [Story] Take in other projects sidebar out of beta features

[Lydia_Pintscher]

Lydia_Pintscher added a comment.

As I said on the mailing list I do not want to add a user-option for this. It 
would be another cut into the already bad preferences for arguably little gain.


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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T103102: [Story] Take in other projects sidebar out of beta features

[Billinghurst]

Billinghurst added a comment.

Little gain?  For whom?

You are forcing communities to choose, which usually puts unhappiness into the 
losing part of any consensus. You are also practically forcing this to the 
default ON, yet where are the results of the use in beta that this there is a 
consensus that this is desired.  In fact prior to taking this to rollout that 
this is desired by the broader community? I instead see the conversation that 
it is stable.

This continued forcing of more things collectively into sidebars has to stop at 
some spot until there is more flexibility for sidebars, and more easily 
manipulated, especially with orders of groups. Developers seem to can forget 
that many do not have the skills to customise through code, and the preferences 
is meant to make it easy, and now the developers don't see that value?

I repeat that

- It should be an option for users to turn it on or off in their preferences
- Communities should have the ability to set it as their default ON or OFF, 
which users can then themselves manipulate. Communities should not have to go 
cap in hand to Wikidata for that configuration.

If that cannot happen then maybe it should not rollout.


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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T103102: [Story] Take in other projects sidebar out of beta features

[Nemo_bis]

Nemo_bis added a comment.

Billinghurst, this is the implementation of a long-standing feature request 
that was the most voted bug on bugzilla, had an RfC on Meta-Wiki and has 
thousands of users actively opting in. Moreover, it's the default state on 
multiple "top 10" Wikipedias. It is definitely something the community asked, 
so please avoid the aggressive language.

Nobody is forcing anything, wikis are free to opt out simply by asking. Do you 
suggest to make a Meta-Wiki page where a wiki can be added if the feature is 
undesired there?


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Lydia_Pintscher, Johan, Luke081515, Wikidata-bugs, Se4598, Jay8g, Quiddity, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T103102: [Story] Take in other projects sidebar out of beta features

[Tpt]

Tpt added a comment.

> So basically: opt-in or opt-out?

What we could do is a middle way: notify the projects that if they do not ask 
to opt-out before this specific date the other project sidebar will be enable 
by default for all user.

We should also make clear that the beta feature will be removed if they decide 
to opt-out (except if we move it to a regular option for opt-out wikis)


TASK DETAIL
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T103102

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To: Tpt
Cc: Nemo_bis, Addshore, Snaevar, Mbch331, Ricordisamoa, Bene, Tpt, Vibhabamba, 
Jdforrester-WMF, Aklapper, Lydia_Pintscher, Wikidata-bugs, aude, Se4598, 
Quiddity, Legoktm



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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T103102: [Story] Take in other projects sidebar out of beta features

[Lydia_Pintscher]

Lydia_Pintscher added a comment.

Alright. From my side we can push it out and make it the default. I assume not 
all wikis will want it. We can disable it per wiki. Question is do we start 
with enabling it for all and then exclude the ones that don't want it or do we 
ask who wants it and enable it for them?


TASK DETAIL
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To: Lydia_Pintscher
Cc: Nemo_bis, Addshore, Snaevar, Mbch331, Ricordisamoa, Bene, Tpt, Vibhabamba, 
Jdforrester-WMF, Aklapper, Lydia_Pintscher, Wikidata-bugs, aude, Se4598, 
Quiddity, Legoktm



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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T103102: [Story] Take in other projects sidebar out of beta features

[Lydia_Pintscher]

Lydia_Pintscher added a comment.

So basically: opt-in or opt-out?


TASK DETAIL
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To: Lydia_Pintscher
Cc: Nemo_bis, Addshore, Snaevar, Mbch331, Ricordisamoa, Bene, Tpt, Vibhabamba, 
Jdforrester-WMF, Aklapper, Lydia_Pintscher, Wikidata-bugs, aude, Se4598, 
Quiddity, Legoktm



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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T103102: [Story] Take in other projects sidebar out of beta features

[Nemo_bis]

Nemo_bis added a subscriber: Nemo_bis.
Nemo_bis added a comment.

This feature is quite stable by now and the current dependencies are not real 
blockers IMHO, just nice to have that until unresolved maintain the situation 
as good (or as bad) as it was before this feature.

The real blocker was fixing the competing templates and site-wide CSS/JS that 
on few wikis (mainly fr, it, pt I think) could have produced duplicate links. 
There was ample time to fix that and fixes are readily available on the main 
wikis using interproject templates that way.


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To: Nemo_bis
Cc: Nemo_bis, Addshore, Snaevar, Mbch331, Ricordisamoa, Bene, Tpt, Vibhabamba, 
Jdforrester-WMF, Aklapper, Lydia_Pintscher, Wikidata-bugs, aude, Se4598, 
Quiddity, Legoktm



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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T103102: [Story] Take in other projects sidebar out of beta features

[Jdforrester-WMF]

Jdforrester-WMF added a comment.

Hey. As mentioned by me on wikitech-l just now 
, 
this Beta Feature has sat for far too long with no development that I can see. 
It's many months past its due date to be pushed to all users, improved, or 
pulled. Which is it going to be? If there's no progress in a month I'm going to 
have to pull it myself. :-(


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To: Jdforrester-WMF
Cc: Addshore, Snaevar, Mbch331, Ricordisamoa, Bene, Tpt, Vibhabamba, 
Jdforrester-WMF, Aklapper, Lydia_Pintscher, Wikidata-bugs, aude, Se4598, 
Quiddity, Legoktm



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