[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T221921: Provision search endpoint for SDC. Requirements from Product Team.

[Keegan]

Keegan added a comment.


  At this point it looks like we're a little over two weeks out from release:
  
  - OAuth code is ready but still needs to be merged
  - Deploying configuration changes to the UI in order to customize the title, 
logo, examples, etc for the Commons Query Service proved to be a little bit 
more complicated than expected, but is nearly ready
  - The "wd" prefix needs to be changed for Commons for clarity purposes. It is 
taking longer than expected to do this in the dumps, so we are temporarily 
doing this at load time, which delayed things a bit.
  
  Sometime next week the data should be loaded in, and after that comes 
approximately one more week of testing. We're almost there.

TASK DETAIL
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T221921

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To: Keegan
Cc: David_Haskiya_WMSE, CBogen, Gamaliel, Keegan, Jane023, Spinster, Fuzheado, 
Jarekt, Husky, Tagishsimon, Multichill, Tnegrin, Abbe98, Marsupium, Tpt, 
Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, dcausse, EBernhardson, Jheald, Gehel, Abit, 
MarkTraceur, Cparle, Ramsey-WMF, Smalyshev, Aklapper, darthmon_wmde, Nandana, 
JKSTNK, Namenlos314, Lahi, PDrouin-WMF, Gq86, E1presidente, Anooprao, 
SandraF_WMF, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, EBjune, Tramullas, Acer, merbst, 
LawExplorer, Salgo60, Silverfish, Poyekhali, _jensen, rosalieper, 
Taiwania_Justo, Scott_WUaS, Jonas, Xmlizer, Susannaanas, Ixocactus, Wong128hk, 
jkroll, Wikidata-bugs, Jdouglas, Base, matthiasmullie, aude, Tobias1984, 
El_Grafo, Dinoguy1000, Manybubbles, Ricordisamoa, Wesalius, Lydia_Pintscher, 
Fabrice_Florin, Raymond, Steinsplitter, Mbch331
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T221921: Provision search endpoint for SDC. Requirements from Product Team.

[Keegan]

Keegan added a comment.


  *FYI: this work is still on track to be completed by the end of this month. 
We'll continue to provide updates as we get closer.

TASK DETAIL
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To: Keegan
Cc: David_Haskiya_WMSE, CBogen, Gamaliel, Keegan, Jane023, Spinster, Fuzheado, 
Jarekt, Husky, Tagishsimon, Multichill, Tnegrin, Abbe98, Marsupium, Tpt, 
Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, dcausse, EBernhardson, Jheald, Gehel, Abit, 
MarkTraceur, Cparle, Ramsey-WMF, Smalyshev, Aklapper, darthmon_wmde, Nandana, 
JKSTNK, Namenlos314, Lahi, PDrouin-WMF, Gq86, E1presidente, Anooprao, 
SandraF_WMF, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, EBjune, Tramullas, Acer, merbst, 
LawExplorer, Salgo60, Silverfish, Poyekhali, _jensen, rosalieper, 
Taiwania_Justo, Scott_WUaS, Jonas, Xmlizer, Susannaanas, Ixocactus, Wong128hk, 
jkroll, Wikidata-bugs, Jdouglas, Base, matthiasmullie, aude, Tobias1984, 
El_Grafo, Dinoguy1000, Manybubbles, Ricordisamoa, Wesalius, Lydia_Pintscher, 
Fabrice_Florin, Raymond, Steinsplitter, Mbch331
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T221921: Provision search endpoint for SDC. Requirements from Product Team.

[Husky]

Husky added a comment.


  @CBogen cool, thanks for the update. Really looking forward to be able to 
test something!

TASK DETAIL
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To: Husky
Cc: David_Haskiya_WMSE, CBogen, Gamaliel, Keegan, Jane023, Spinster, Fuzheado, 
Jarekt, Husky, Tagishsimon, Multichill, Tnegrin, Abbe98, Marsupium, Tpt, 
Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, dcausse, EBernhardson, Jheald, Gehel, Abit, 
MarkTraceur, Cparle, Ramsey-WMF, Smalyshev, Aklapper, darthmon_wmde, Nandana, 
JKSTNK, Namenlos314, Lahi, PDrouin-WMF, Gq86, E1presidente, Anooprao, 
SandraF_WMF, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, EBjune, Tramullas, Acer, merbst, 
LawExplorer, Salgo60, Silverfish, Poyekhali, _jensen, rosalieper, 
Taiwania_Justo, Scott_WUaS, Jonas, Xmlizer, Susannaanas, Ixocactus, Wong128hk, 
jkroll, Wikidata-bugs, Jdouglas, Base, matthiasmullie, aude, Tobias1984, 
El_Grafo, Dinoguy1000, Manybubbles, Ricordisamoa, Wesalius, Lydia_Pintscher, 
Fabrice_Florin, Raymond, Steinsplitter, Mbch331
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T221921: Provision search endpoint for SDC. Requirements from Product Team.

[CBogen]

CBogen added a comment.


  Here is another brief update:
  
  The SPARQL endpoint for Commons is moving along well. The data has been 
loaded and federation is working. Up next is work on authentication, automated 
data reload, and necessary UI updates. We’re hoping to have an initial release 
in about four more weeks, though surprises may cause additional delays - we’ll 
keep you updated.

TASK DETAIL
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T221921

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To: CBogen
Cc: David_Haskiya_WMSE, CBogen, Gamaliel, Keegan, Jane023, Spinster, Fuzheado, 
Jarekt, Husky, Tagishsimon, Multichill, Tnegrin, Abbe98, Marsupium, Tpt, 
Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, dcausse, EBernhardson, Jheald, Gehel, Abit, 
MarkTraceur, Cparle, Ramsey-WMF, Smalyshev, Aklapper, darthmon_wmde, Nandana, 
JKSTNK, Namenlos314, Lahi, PDrouin-WMF, Gq86, E1presidente, Anooprao, 
SandraF_WMF, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, EBjune, Tramullas, Acer, merbst, 
LawExplorer, Salgo60, Silverfish, Poyekhali, _jensen, rosalieper, 
Taiwania_Justo, Scott_WUaS, Jonas, Xmlizer, Susannaanas, Ixocactus, Wong128hk, 
jkroll, Wikidata-bugs, Jdouglas, Base, matthiasmullie, aude, Tobias1984, 
El_Grafo, Dinoguy1000, Manybubbles, Ricordisamoa, Wesalius, Lydia_Pintscher, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T221921: Provision search endpoint for SDC. Requirements from Product Team.

[Keegan]

Keegan added a comment.


  
  
  In T221921#6104499 , 
@Jarekt wrote:
  
  > For me the big issue is quality control. As more people and bots are adding 
more statements, I am concerned about people finding multiple creative ways to 
store the same type of information, resulting in multiple parallel data models. 
SPARQL endpoint and property constraints is a way to check if everybody uses 
the same data model and allows to address issues  quickly, but we are still in 
the dark.
  
  Constraints are live on production, so in theory they'll Just Work® when the 
endpoint is up.

TASK DETAIL
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To: Keegan
Cc: David_Haskiya_WMSE, CBogen, Gamaliel, Keegan, Jane023, Spinster, Fuzheado, 
Jarekt, Husky, Tagishsimon, Multichill, Tnegrin, Abbe98, Marsupium, Tpt, 
Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, dcausse, EBernhardson, Jheald, Gehel, Abit, 
MarkTraceur, Cparle, Ramsey-WMF, Smalyshev, Aklapper, darthmon_wmde, Nandana, 
JKSTNK, Lahi, PDrouin-WMF, Gq86, E1presidente, Anooprao, SandraF_WMF, 
GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, EBjune, Tramullas, Acer, merbst, LawExplorer, 
Salgo60, Silverfish, Poyekhali, _jensen, rosalieper, Taiwania_Justo, 
Scott_WUaS, Jonas, Xmlizer, Susannaanas, Ixocactus, Wong128hk, jkroll, 
Wikidata-bugs, Jdouglas, Base, matthiasmullie, aude, Tobias1984, El_Grafo, 
Dinoguy1000, Manybubbles, Ricordisamoa, Wesalius, Lydia_Pintscher, 
Fabrice_Florin, Raymond, Steinsplitter, Mbch331
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T221921: Provision search endpoint for SDC. Requirements from Product Team.

[Jarekt]

Jarekt added a comment.


  For me the big issue is quality control. As more people and bots are adding 
more statements, I am concerned about people finding multiple creative ways to 
store the same type of information, resulting in multiple parallel data models. 
SPARQL endpoint and property constraints is a way to check if everybody uses 
the same data model and allows to address issues  quickly, but we are still in 
the dark.

TASK DETAIL
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T221921

EMAIL PREFERENCES
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/

To: Jarekt
Cc: David_Haskiya_WMSE, CBogen, Gamaliel, Keegan, Jane023, Spinster, Fuzheado, 
Jarekt, Husky, Tagishsimon, Multichill, Tnegrin, Abbe98, Marsupium, Tpt, 
Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, dcausse, EBernhardson, Jheald, Gehel, Abit, 
MarkTraceur, Cparle, Ramsey-WMF, Smalyshev, Aklapper, darthmon_wmde, Nandana, 
JKSTNK, Lahi, PDrouin-WMF, Gq86, E1presidente, Anooprao, SandraF_WMF, 
GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, EBjune, Tramullas, Acer, merbst, LawExplorer, 
Salgo60, Silverfish, Poyekhali, _jensen, rosalieper, Taiwania_Justo, 
Scott_WUaS, Jonas, Xmlizer, Susannaanas, Ixocactus, Wong128hk, jkroll, 
Wikidata-bugs, Jdouglas, Base, matthiasmullie, aude, Tobias1984, El_Grafo, 
Dinoguy1000, Manybubbles, Ricordisamoa, Wesalius, Lydia_Pintscher, 
Fabrice_Florin, Raymond, Steinsplitter, Mbch331
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T221921: Provision search endpoint for SDC. Requirements from Product Team.

[Husky]

Husky added a comment.


  In T221921#6103577 , 
@Spinster wrote:
  
  > As for a SPARQL endpoint being challenging for many end users from an UX 
perspective - I would say: don't underestimate our end users and community.
  
  +1. SPARQL is definitely not for the 'average' user, fortunately we don't 
have many average users on our projects. Also note that a SPARQL endpoint can 
easily serve as the fundament of tools that are more user-friendly, for example 
my own VizQuery  uses the Wikidata 
SPARQL service. To adapt that to a future stable SDoC / Commons endpoint would 
literally be a one-line code change. It already works on the old beta service 
 (if that would still 
work).

TASK DETAIL
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T221921

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To: Husky
Cc: David_Haskiya_WMSE, CBogen, Gamaliel, Keegan, Jane023, Spinster, Fuzheado, 
Jarekt, Husky, Tagishsimon, Multichill, Tnegrin, Abbe98, Marsupium, Tpt, 
Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, dcausse, EBernhardson, Jheald, Gehel, Abit, 
MarkTraceur, Cparle, Ramsey-WMF, Smalyshev, Aklapper, darthmon_wmde, Nandana, 
JKSTNK, Lahi, PDrouin-WMF, Gq86, E1presidente, Anooprao, SandraF_WMF, 
GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, EBjune, Tramullas, Acer, merbst, LawExplorer, 
Salgo60, Silverfish, Poyekhali, _jensen, rosalieper, Taiwania_Justo, 
Scott_WUaS, Jonas, Xmlizer, Susannaanas, Ixocactus, Wong128hk, jkroll, 
Wikidata-bugs, Jdouglas, Base, matthiasmullie, aude, Tobias1984, El_Grafo, 
Dinoguy1000, Manybubbles, Ricordisamoa, Wesalius, Lydia_Pintscher, 
Fabrice_Florin, Raymond, Steinsplitter, Mbch331
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T221921: Provision search endpoint for SDC. Requirements from Product Team.

[Spinster]

Spinster added a comment.


  In T221921#6097113 , 
@CBogen wrote:
  
  > 
  
  
  
  > - The work to create a SPARQL endpoint for Commons has been re-prioritized. 
Our teams will be working on it over the next few months and the search team is 
currently estimating the work involved.
  
  I'm super happy and relieved to hear this. Thank you!
  
  > - We want to emphasize that while we do expect a SPARQL endpoint to be part 
of a medium to long term solution, it will only be part of that solution. Even 
once the SPARQL endpoint is production-ready, it will still have limitations in 
terms of timeouts, expensive queries, and federation. Some use cases will need 
to be migrated, over time, to better solutions — once those solutions exist.
  
  Understood. These concerns do seem to be focused on technical limitations, am 
I correct? In terms of context, I think in the above thread I haven't expressed 
clearly enough that a SPARQL endpoint is also quite important for Wikimedia 
Commons to be considered a serious citizen of the Linked Open Data web, being a 
currently rather standard style of endpoint for LOD repositories worldwide, 
including the ability to do federated queries across repositories. It's an 
important element for Wikimedia projects to be potentially taken seriously in 
GLAM+ worldwide knowledge infrastructure. For future better solutions (again, I 
assume, technically more stable?) I hope we'll stay committed to being 
compliant with what the rest of the semantic web is doing.
  
  As for a SPARQL endpoint being challenging for many end users from an UX 
perspective - I would say: don't underestimate our end users and community. I 
have been wildly surprised at how many people in and around the Wikimedia 
community - not just a narrow group of power users, but I would say also lots 
of 'regular' contributors! - have mastered SPARQL and actively use it. A lot of 
it also thanks to the great work on the Wikidata Query Helper and several 
volunteer-built tools to make building queries easier.

TASK DETAIL
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To: Spinster
Cc: David_Haskiya_WMSE, CBogen, Gamaliel, Keegan, Jane023, Spinster, Fuzheado, 
Jarekt, Husky, Tagishsimon, Multichill, Tnegrin, Abbe98, Marsupium, Tpt, 
Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, dcausse, EBernhardson, Jheald, Gehel, Abit, 
MarkTraceur, Cparle, Ramsey-WMF, Smalyshev, Aklapper, darthmon_wmde, Nandana, 
JKSTNK, Lahi, PDrouin-WMF, Gq86, E1presidente, Anooprao, SandraF_WMF, 
GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, EBjune, Tramullas, Acer, merbst, LawExplorer, 
Salgo60, Silverfish, Poyekhali, _jensen, rosalieper, Taiwania_Justo, 
Scott_WUaS, Jonas, Xmlizer, Susannaanas, Ixocactus, Wong128hk, jkroll, 
Wikidata-bugs, Jdouglas, Base, matthiasmullie, aude, Tobias1984, El_Grafo, 
Dinoguy1000, Manybubbles, Ricordisamoa, Wesalius, Lydia_Pintscher, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T221921: Provision search endpoint for SDC. Requirements from Product Team.

[CBogen]

CBogen added a comment.


  Here is a brief update. @Keegan will also be posting an update to the talk 
thread 
 
today.
  
  - The work to create a SPARQL endpoint for Commons has been re-prioritized. 
Our teams will be working on it over the next few months and the search team is 
currently estimating the work involved.
  - The first release will be a beta endpoint that will be updated via weekly 
dumps. Caveats will include limited performance, expected downtimes, and no 
interface, naming, or backward compatibility stability guarantees.
  - We do plan to move this to production, but we don't have a timeline on that 
yet.
  - The SPARQL endpoint for Commons will be restricted via a light and 
unobtrusive form of authentication, so that we can contact abusive bots / users 
and block them selectively (as a last resort) when needed. More details on this 
to come.
  - We want to emphasize that while we do expect a SPARQL endpoint to be part 
of a medium to long term solution, it will only be part of that solution. Even 
once the SPARQL endpoint is production-ready, it will still have limitations in 
terms of timeouts, expensive queries, and federation. Some use cases will need 
to be migrated, over time, to better solutions — once those solutions exist.

TASK DETAIL
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T221921

EMAIL PREFERENCES
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To: CBogen
Cc: David_Haskiya_WMSE, CBogen, Gamaliel, Keegan, Jane023, Spinster, Fuzheado, 
Jarekt, Husky, Tagishsimon, Multichill, Tnegrin, Abbe98, Marsupium, Tpt, 
Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, dcausse, EBernhardson, Jheald, Gehel, Abit, 
MarkTraceur, Cparle, Ramsey-WMF, Smalyshev, Aklapper, darthmon_wmde, Nandana, 
JKSTNK, Lahi, PDrouin-WMF, Gq86, E1presidente, Anooprao, SandraF_WMF, 
GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, EBjune, Tramullas, Acer, merbst, LawExplorer, 
Salgo60, Silverfish, Poyekhali, _jensen, rosalieper, Taiwania_Justo, 
Scott_WUaS, Jonas, Xmlizer, Susannaanas, Ixocactus, Wong128hk, jkroll, 
Wikidata-bugs, Jdouglas, Base, matthiasmullie, aude, Tobias1984, El_Grafo, 
Dinoguy1000, Manybubbles, Ricordisamoa, Wesalius, Lydia_Pintscher, 
Fabrice_Florin, Raymond, Steinsplitter, Mbch331
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T221921: Provision search endpoint for SDC. Requirements from Product Team.

[CBogen]

CBogen added a comment.


  We recognize how important this is and will be meeting over the next few 
weeks to determine a plan forward and a timeline. We'll begin providing regular 
updates here and on the talk thread 
 as 
we have more information in the next couple of weeks.

TASK DETAIL
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To: CBogen
Cc: CBogen, Gamaliel, Keegan, Jane023, Spinster, Fuzheado, Jarekt, Husky, 
Tagishsimon, Multichill, Tnegrin, Abbe98, Marsupium, Tpt, 
Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, dcausse, EBernhardson, Jheald, Gehel, Abit, 
MarkTraceur, Cparle, Ramsey-WMF, Smalyshev, Aklapper, darthmon_wmde, Nandana, 
JKSTNK, Lahi, PDrouin-WMF, Gq86, E1presidente, Anooprao, SandraF_WMF, 
GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, EBjune, Tramullas, Acer, merbst, LawExplorer, 
Salgo60, Silverfish, Poyekhali, _jensen, rosalieper, Taiwania_Justo, 
Scott_WUaS, Jonas, Xmlizer, Susannaanas, Ixocactus, Wong128hk, jkroll, 
Wikidata-bugs, Jdouglas, Base, matthiasmullie, aude, Tobias1984, El_Grafo, 
Dinoguy1000, Manybubbles, Ricordisamoa, Wesalius, Lydia_Pintscher, 
Fabrice_Florin, Raymond, Steinsplitter, Mbch331
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T221921: Provision search endpoint for SDC. Requirements from Product Team.

[Multichill]

Multichill added a comment.


  In T221921#5977857 , 
@Gehel wrote:
  
  > Thank you all for your patience!
  
  Can you give an indication how much longer you're going to test our patience? 
Weeks? Months? Years?

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To: Multichill
Cc: Gamaliel, Keegan, Jane023, Spinster, Fuzheado, Jarekt, Husky, Tagishsimon, 
Multichill, Tnegrin, Abbe98, Marsupium, Tpt, Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, dcausse, 
EBernhardson, Jheald, Gehel, Abit, MarkTraceur, Cparle, Ramsey-WMF, Smalyshev, 
Aklapper, CBogen, darthmon_wmde, Nandana, JKSTNK, Lahi, PDrouin-WMF, Gq86, 
E1presidente, Anooprao, SandraF_WMF, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, EBjune, 
Tramullas, Acer, merbst, LawExplorer, Salgo60, Silverfish, Poyekhali, _jensen, 
rosalieper, Taiwania_Justo, Scott_WUaS, Jonas, Xmlizer, Susannaanas, Ixocactus, 
Wong128hk, jkroll, Wikidata-bugs, Jdouglas, Base, matthiasmullie, aude, 
Tobias1984, El_Grafo, Dinoguy1000, Manybubbles, Ricordisamoa, Wesalius, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T221921: Provision search endpoint for SDC. Requirements from Product Team.

[Jheald]

Jheald added a comment.


  Yes, there's a cost to you of providing a service based on current WDQS, that 
then has to be ripped out for a new version based on WDQS 2.
  
  But consider how little cost that change is for users (since what they 
interact with will be essentially unchanged - SPARQL for SPARQL, like for 
like), and consider how much they will be able to do with the endpoint in that 
time.   There is so much that the community could move forwards on now, and 
this is such a blocker for us.

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To: Jheald
Cc: Gamaliel, Keegan, Jane023, Spinster, Fuzheado, Jarekt, Husky, Tagishsimon, 
Multichill, Tnegrin, Abbe98, Marsupium, Tpt, Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, dcausse, 
EBernhardson, Jheald, Gehel, Abit, MarkTraceur, Cparle, Ramsey-WMF, Smalyshev, 
Aklapper, CBogen, darthmon_wmde, Nandana, JKSTNK, Lahi, PDrouin-WMF, Gq86, 
E1presidente, Anooprao, SandraF_WMF, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, EBjune, 
Tramullas, Acer, merbst, LawExplorer, Salgo60, Silverfish, Poyekhali, _jensen, 
rosalieper, Taiwania_Justo, Scott_WUaS, Jonas, Xmlizer, Susannaanas, Ixocactus, 
Wong128hk, jkroll, Wikidata-bugs, Jdouglas, Base, matthiasmullie, aude, 
Tobias1984, El_Grafo, Dinoguy1000, Manybubbles, Ricordisamoa, Wesalius, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T221921: Provision search endpoint for SDC. Requirements from Product Team.

[Gehel]

Gehel added a comment.


  Sorry the the misunderstanding here. It was never our intention to not 
provide a SPARQL endpoint for Commons. But given the trouble we have at the 
moment with WDQS, we are focusing on stabilising our existing services before 
adding new ones. With the work we are doing on WDQS, we are learning about 
things we should be doing better (like the rework of the whole update chain 
from Wikidata to WDQS). We don't want to repeat the same mistakes and we want 
to start from a sane situation. I understand that the delay is frustrating, but 
duplicating a service that is not performing well does not sound very appealing 
to me. Yes, I understand the the expected load on a SPARQL endpoint for Commons 
is very different than what we currently have on WDQS, but what we see on WDQS 
are also more fundamental problems that need to be fixed.
  
  Thank you all for your patience!

TASK DETAIL
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T221921

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To: Gehel
Cc: Gamaliel, Keegan, Jane023, Spinster, Fuzheado, Jarekt, Husky, Tagishsimon, 
Multichill, Tnegrin, Abbe98, Marsupium, Tpt, Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, dcausse, 
EBernhardson, Jheald, Gehel, Abit, MarkTraceur, Cparle, Ramsey-WMF, Smalyshev, 
Aklapper, CBogen, darthmon_wmde, Nandana, JKSTNK, Lahi, PDrouin-WMF, Gq86, 
E1presidente, Anooprao, SandraF_WMF, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, EBjune, 
Tramullas, Acer, merbst, LawExplorer, Salgo60, Silverfish, Poyekhali, _jensen, 
rosalieper, Taiwania_Justo, Scott_WUaS, Jonas, Xmlizer, Susannaanas, Ixocactus, 
Wong128hk, jkroll, Wikidata-bugs, Jdouglas, Base, matthiasmullie, aude, 
Tobias1984, El_Grafo, Dinoguy1000, Manybubbles, Ricordisamoa, Wesalius, 
Lydia_Pintscher, Fabrice_Florin, Raymond, Steinsplitter, Mbch331
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T221921: Provision search endpoint for SDC. Requirements from Product Team.

[Husky]

Husky added a comment.


  In T221921#5973902 , 
@Jarekt wrote:
  
  > That would be great. I think the frustration is due to expectations 
management.
  
  +1. It's pretty hard to stay excited about SDoC when there's no proper way to 
view the hard work that is being done with editing all images, *especially* 
when there's no way to take Wikidata items into the same query. What's the 
point of tagging all the reproductions of the Mona Lisa with a 'depicts' 
statement if there's no way to do a query on them? Or having a completely 
separate, other way of doing that?

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To: Husky
Cc: Gamaliel, Keegan, Jane023, Spinster, Fuzheado, Jarekt, Husky, Tagishsimon, 
Multichill, Tnegrin, Abbe98, Marsupium, Tpt, Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, dcausse, 
EBernhardson, Jheald, Gehel, Abit, MarkTraceur, Cparle, Ramsey-WMF, Smalyshev, 
Aklapper, CBogen, darthmon_wmde, Nandana, JKSTNK, Lahi, PDrouin-WMF, Gq86, 
E1presidente, Anooprao, SandraF_WMF, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, EBjune, 
Tramullas, Acer, merbst, LawExplorer, Salgo60, Silverfish, Poyekhali, _jensen, 
rosalieper, Taiwania_Justo, Scott_WUaS, Jonas, Xmlizer, Susannaanas, Ixocactus, 
Wong128hk, jkroll, Wikidata-bugs, Jdouglas, Base, matthiasmullie, aude, 
Tobias1984, El_Grafo, Dinoguy1000, Manybubbles, Ricordisamoa, Wesalius, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T221921: Provision search endpoint for SDC. Requirements from Product Team.

[Keegan]

Keegan added a comment.


  I'm aware of how old this ticket is and the pain it's caused trying to move 
it forward. There seems to be some miscommunication going on here and it's 
escalating, I'm going to work with some folks on clarifying intentions.

TASK DETAIL
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To: Keegan
Cc: Keegan, Jane023, Spinster, Fuzheado, Jarekt, Husky, Tagishsimon, 
Multichill, Tnegrin, Abbe98, Marsupium, Tpt, Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, dcausse, 
EBernhardson, Jheald, Gehel, Abit, MarkTraceur, Cparle, Ramsey-WMF, Smalyshev, 
Aklapper, Nuria, CBogen, darthmon_wmde, Nandana, JKSTNK, Lahi, PDrouin-WMF, 
Gq86, E1presidente, Anooprao, SandraF_WMF, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, EBjune, 
Tramullas, Acer, merbst, LawExplorer, Salgo60, Silverfish, Poyekhali, _jensen, 
rosalieper, Taiwania_Justo, Scott_WUaS, Jonas, Xmlizer, Susannaanas, Ixocactus, 
Wong128hk, jkroll, Wikidata-bugs, Jdouglas, Base, matthiasmullie, aude, 
Tobias1984, El_Grafo, Dinoguy1000, Manybubbles, Ricordisamoa, Wesalius, 
Lydia_Pintscher, Fabrice_Florin, Raymond, Steinsplitter, Mbch331
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T221921: Provision search endpoint for SDC. Requirements from Product Team.

[Jane023]

Jane023 added a comment.


  I agree with earlier posts and would say I have zero motivation to contribute 
to SDoC until such a query service is available to me, because working on 
paintings I find Wikidata workflows much easier to monitor and lacking that for 
Commons I can't make any overviews or execute comparative checks.

TASK DETAIL
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To: Jane023
Cc: Jane023, Spinster, Fuzheado, Jarekt, Husky, Tagishsimon, Multichill, 
Tnegrin, Abbe98, Marsupium, Tpt, Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, dcausse, EBernhardson, 
Jheald, Gehel, Abit, MarkTraceur, Cparle, Ramsey-WMF, Smalyshev, Aklapper, 
Nuria, CBogen, darthmon_wmde, Nandana, JKSTNK, Lahi, PDrouin-WMF, Gq86, 
E1presidente, Anooprao, SandraF_WMF, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, EBjune, 
Tramullas, Acer, merbst, LawExplorer, Salgo60, Silverfish, Poyekhali, _jensen, 
rosalieper, Taiwania_Justo, Scott_WUaS, Jonas, Xmlizer, Susannaanas, Ixocactus, 
Wong128hk, jkroll, Wikidata-bugs, Jdouglas, Base, matthiasmullie, aude, 
Tobias1984, El_Grafo, Dinoguy1000, Manybubbles, Ricordisamoa, Wesalius, 
Lydia_Pintscher, Fabrice_Florin, Raymond, Steinsplitter, Mbch331, Keegan
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T221921: Provision search endpoint for SDC. Requirements from Product Team.

[Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE]

Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE added a comment.


  I would like to remind everyone in this discussion that we have a **Code of 
Conduct **.

TASK DETAIL
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To: Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE
Cc: Spinster, Fuzheado, Jarekt, Husky, Tagishsimon, Multichill, Tnegrin, 
Abbe98, Marsupium, Tpt, Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, dcausse, EBernhardson, Jheald, 
Gehel, Abit, MarkTraceur, Cparle, Ramsey-WMF, Smalyshev, Aklapper, Nuria, 
CBogen, darthmon_wmde, Nandana, JKSTNK, Lahi, PDrouin-WMF, Gq86, E1presidente, 
Anooprao, SandraF_WMF, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, EBjune, Tramullas, Acer, 
merbst, LawExplorer, Salgo60, Silverfish, Poyekhali, _jensen, rosalieper, 
Taiwania_Justo, Scott_WUaS, Jonas, Xmlizer, Susannaanas, Ixocactus, Wong128hk, 
Jane023, jkroll, Wikidata-bugs, Jdouglas, Base, matthiasmullie, aude, 
Tobias1984, El_Grafo, Dinoguy1000, Manybubbles, Ricordisamoa, Wesalius, 
Lydia_Pintscher, Fabrice_Florin, Raymond, Steinsplitter, Mbch331, Keegan
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T221921: Provision search endpoint for SDC. Requirements from Product Team.

[Jheald]

Jheald added a comment.


  Engineering a completely new search facility for Commons Data rather than 
using SPARQL is a *stupid* *waste* *of* *time* *and* *resources*.
  
  Also it will be very challenging to come up with a solution that can handle 
trees, and qualifers, and combinations, as well extractin data from Wikidata -- 
the whole design of SDC rests on items that have their properties in Wikidata 
statements.
  
  Even the most basic search -- show me items with tags that match this *class* 
of items on Wikidata requires incorporating the information from Wikidata as to 
what items on Wikidata have that relation `?item wdt:P31 ?class`
  
  SPARQL gives you this for free, through federation.  It's also a beautifully 
clear language.  We have an outstanding UI for it, ready to go, out of the box. 
  And it's what the entire community knows and uses on a daily basis, so 
there'd be no muddle between two systems.
  
  WDQS handles upwards of 5 million queries a day.   In contrast CQS is going 
to be used by a handful of power users, that desperately need it to iteratively 
evolve and develop the data-modelling -- which doesn't happen at the moment, 
and has stalled the entire project, because at the moment we are completely 
blind, because we have no CQS.   That's why need for CQS is *critical*, but 
even so it may only have a few tens of tens of users.   The query-load problems 
WDQS faces *simply* *do* *not* *apply*.   CQS is not a system for end-users.  
It's not what is going to power end-user applications.  It does not face the 
same capacity issues.  The updating bottleneck issue is *not* an prority issue 
for CQS.
  
  But CQS is *critically* needed for the community to be able to see what they 
are doing, to grow the data model, and to prototype the sort of cool searches 
and refinements to show off what the data is capable of.
  
  See also comments building up in thread at 
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons_talk:Structured_data#On_SPARQL
  
  Multichill calls it exactly right: 
  //Not providing the promised SPARQL endpoint for Structured data on Commons 
is effectively pulling the plug on the whole thing. //
  
  Do none of you have a fucking clue about this project ?
  
  We needed CQS last year, not this year.  It's *far* more important than 
anything in the GUI.  It is an absolute critical priority.   If you can't 
deliver, then hand the ticket back to WMDE and pay them to do it.

TASK DETAIL
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To: Jheald
Cc: Spinster, Fuzheado, Jarekt, Husky, Tagishsimon, Multichill, Tnegrin, 
Abbe98, Marsupium, Tpt, Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, dcausse, EBernhardson, Jheald, 
Gehel, Abit, MarkTraceur, Cparle, Ramsey-WMF, Smalyshev, Aklapper, Nuria, 
CBogen, darthmon_wmde, Nandana, JKSTNK, Lahi, PDrouin-WMF, Gq86, E1presidente, 
Anooprao, SandraF_WMF, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, EBjune, Tramullas, Acer, 
merbst, LawExplorer, Salgo60, Silverfish, Poyekhali, _jensen, rosalieper, 
Taiwania_Justo, Scott_WUaS, Jonas, Xmlizer, Susannaanas, Ixocactus, Wong128hk, 
Jane023, jkroll, Wikidata-bugs, Jdouglas, Base, matthiasmullie, aude, 
Tobias1984, El_Grafo, Dinoguy1000, Manybubbles, Ricordisamoa, Wesalius, 
Lydia_Pintscher, Fabrice_Florin, Raymond, Steinsplitter, Mbch331, Keegan
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T221921: Provision search endpoint for SDC. Requirements from Product Team.

[Spinster]

Spinster added a comment.


  The GLAMs that I interact with also ask very impatiently for a SPARQL 
endpoint, as a means for themselves and for supporting Wikimedians to check and 
maintain their own collections on Commons. WDQS is a crucial component of 
refined batch maintenance and editing tools as well (think PetScan, 
TABernacle), and it powers structured data-driven lists and galleries, which 
have been quite important for several SDC GLAM pilots.

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To: Spinster
Cc: Spinster, Fuzheado, Jarekt, Husky, Tagishsimon, Multichill, Tnegrin, 
Abbe98, Marsupium, Tpt, Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, dcausse, EBernhardson, Jheald, 
Gehel, Abit, MarkTraceur, Cparle, Ramsey-WMF, Smalyshev, Aklapper, Nuria, 
CBogen, darthmon_wmde, Nandana, JKSTNK, Lahi, PDrouin-WMF, Gq86, E1presidente, 
Anooprao, SandraF_WMF, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, EBjune, Tramullas, Acer, 
merbst, LawExplorer, Salgo60, Silverfish, Poyekhali, _jensen, rosalieper, 
Taiwania_Justo, Scott_WUaS, Jonas, Xmlizer, Susannaanas, Ixocactus, Wong128hk, 
Jane023, jkroll, Wikidata-bugs, Jdouglas, Base, matthiasmullie, aude, 
Tobias1984, El_Grafo, Dinoguy1000, Manybubbles, Ricordisamoa, Wesalius, 
Lydia_Pintscher, Fabrice_Florin, Raymond, Steinsplitter, Mbch331, Keegan
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T221921: Provision search endpoint for SDC. Requirements from Product Team.

[Abit]

Abit added a comment.


  > Not providing the promised SPARQL endpoint for Structured data on Commons 
is effectively pulling the plug on the whole project.
  
  We will still build a tool to get out Commons data, one that lets you 
navigate the ontology tree and have similar output formats.  Fixing WDQS before 
it busts is higher priority, so that is what the Search Platform team is 
working on right now.  In addition, the Commons Query Service is currently 
blocked because we don't want to build a new query service until we know what 
the solution for the old one is.

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To: Abit
Cc: Multichill, Tnegrin, Abbe98, Marsupium, Tpt, Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, 
dcausse, EBernhardson, Jheald, Gehel, Abit, MarkTraceur, Cparle, Ramsey-WMF, 
Smalyshev, Aklapper, Nuria, CBogen, darthmon_wmde, Nandana, JKSTNK, Lahi, 
PDrouin-WMF, Gq86, E1presidente, Anooprao, SandraF_WMF, GoranSMilovanovic, 
QZanden, EBjune, Tramullas, Acer, merbst, LawExplorer, Salgo60, Silverfish, 
Poyekhali, _jensen, rosalieper, Taiwania_Justo, Scott_WUaS, Jonas, Xmlizer, 
Susannaanas, Ixocactus, Wong128hk, Jane023, jkroll, Wikidata-bugs, Jdouglas, 
Base, matthiasmullie, aude, Tobias1984, El_Grafo, Dinoguy1000, Manybubbles, 
Ricordisamoa, Wesalius, Lydia_Pintscher, Fabrice_Florin, Raymond, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T221921: Provision search endpoint for SDC. Requirements from Product Team.

[Gehel]

Gehel added a comment.


  Some of the use cases described here are already supported by search 
(wbstatement keywords, etc...). We are not going to work on a new SPARQL 
endpoint before we have a scaling strategy for the current WDQS. It looks like 
the remaining use cases described here might be better served not by a SPARQL 
endpoint, but by a more specific service.

TASK DETAIL
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To: Gehel
Cc: Abbe98, Marsupium, Tpt, Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, dcausse, EBernhardson, 
Jheald, Gehel, Abit, MarkTraceur, Cparle, Ramsey-WMF, Smalyshev, Aklapper, 
Nuria, CBogen, darthmon_wmde, Nandana, JKSTNK, Lahi, PDrouin-WMF, Gq86, 
E1presidente, Anooprao, SandraF_WMF, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, EBjune, 
Tramullas, Acer, merbst, LawExplorer, Salgo60, Silverfish, Poyekhali, _jensen, 
rosalieper, Taiwania_Justo, Scott_WUaS, Jonas, Xmlizer, Susannaanas, Ixocactus, 
Wong128hk, Jane023, jkroll, Wikidata-bugs, Jdouglas, Base, matthiasmullie, 
aude, Tobias1984, El_Grafo, Dinoguy1000, Manybubbles, Ricordisamoa, Wesalius, 
Lydia_Pintscher, Fabrice_Florin, Raymond, Steinsplitter, Mbch331, Keegan
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T221921: Provision search endpoint for SDC. Requirements from Product Team.

[Smalyshev]

Smalyshev added a comment.


  The outcomes of the chat today seem to be:
  
  1. We're making separate Commons query service, on separate servers
  2. The estimate for the data size is: the number of items will eventually be 
the same as Wikidata, but the item size probably substantially less. It may 
take some time to get there but probably no longer than 1-2 years.
  3. The query load from power editors would be probably lower than on Wikidata 
since the editor count is similar but most Commons editors are uploaders, not 
SDC editors (at least for now).
  4. The query load from individual consumers might be as high as Wikidata, 
since more people may be looking for various images for their work, but 
Wikidata load is dominated by bots now, so the query load is expected to be 
lower at least initially.
  5. On the first stage of the work, we will set up a server on VPS as a 
prototype, but then we will have to migrate to production setup, unless we can 
have some kind of VPS-on-real-hardware setup.
  6. Minimal production config is 6 servers, with the specs close to initial 
Wikidata servers. We can cut requirements (while simultaneously cutting the 
level of declared support/reliability - i.e. single cluster, less redundancy, 
etc.) but that's the minimum for full production.
  7. We will only have public endpoint, no internal endpoint. We can make it 
require login, but it's just more work so we're not doing it for now.

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To: Smalyshev
Cc: dcausse, EBernhardson, Jheald, Gehel, Abit, MarkTraceur, Cparle, 
Ramsey-WMF, Smalyshev, Aklapper, Nuria, alaa_wmde, Nandana, JKSTNK, Lahi, 
PDrouin-WMF, Gq86, E1presidente, Anooprao, SandraF_WMF, Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, 
GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, EBjune, Tramullas, Acer, merbst, LawExplorer, 
Salgo60, Silverfish, Poyekhali, _jensen, rosalieper, Jonas, Xmlizer, 
Susannaanas, Wong128hk, Jane023, jkroll, Wikidata-bugs, Jdouglas, Base, 
matthiasmullie, aude, Tobias1984, El_Grafo, Dinoguy1000, Manybubbles, 
Ricordisamoa, Wesalius, Lydia_Pintscher, Fabrice_Florin, Raymond, 
Steinsplitter, Mbch331, Keegan
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T221921: Provision search endpoint for SDC. Requirements from Product Team.

[Abit]

Abit added a comment.


  Alright, @Smalyshev and @Ramsey-WMF , I've done my best at starting this 
ticket.  Please adjust as needed :)

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To: Abit
Cc: Abit, MarkTraceur, Cparle, Ramsey-WMF, Smalyshev, Aklapper, Nuria, 
alaa_wmde, Nandana, JKSTNK, Lahi, PDrouin-WMF, Gq86, E1presidente, Anooprao, 
SandraF_WMF, Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, EBjune, 
Tramullas, Acer, merbst, LawExplorer, Salgo60, Silverfish, Poyekhali, _jensen, 
rosalieper, Jonas, Xmlizer, Susannaanas, Wong128hk, Jane023, jkroll, 
Wikidata-bugs, Jdouglas, Base, matthiasmullie, aude, Tobias1984, El_Grafo, 
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