[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T285498: Wikidata: Investigate bibliographic bot

[Samwilson]

Samwilson added a comment.


  I forked the CiteTool and fixed up a couple of bits: 
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:Samwilson/CiteTool.js

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T285498: Wikidata: Investigate bibliographic bot

[Sj]

Sj added subscribers: JeanFred, Sj.
Sj added a comment.


  Thanks for evaluating this.  Can you suggest a path forward?  Just making 
Aude.js work again? @JeanFred

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T285498: Wikidata: Investigate bibliographic bot

[NRodriguez]

NRodriguez closed this task as "Resolved".
NRodriguez added a comment.


  This investigation provided all information necessary to understand scope of 
work and re-estimate the original expectations of the wish, Thanks for your 
work!

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T285498: Wikidata: Investigate bibliographic bot

[ldelench_wmf]

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T285498: Wikidata: Investigate bibliographic bot

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T285498: Wikidata: Investigate bibliographic bot

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T285498: Wikidata: Investigate bibliographic bot

[ldelench_wmf]

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T285498: Wikidata: Investigate bibliographic bot

[Daimona]

Daimona added a comment.


  In T285498#7220146 , 
@Samwilson wrote:
  
  >> A part which queries Wikidata for bare URLs.
  >
  > A Sparql query can do this, and perhaps we'd want to query based on missing 
reference properties, and not just alone Reference URLs (e.g. a URL and title 
might be set, but no author or published date).
  
  Yeah, I was also thinking about SPARQL, but I've never queried wikidata so I 
don't really know whether it's the right tool. I think retrieving a list of 
pages that use reference URLs would be trivial, the non-trivial part is making 
sure that a given reference only has the reference URL and nothing else.
  
  >> A part which parses the citoid output and puts it back on the wiki.
  >
  > It's certainly be possible to do this, given the data returned by Citoid, 
but I'm wondering if this is reliable enough for an unsupervised process. For 
example, adding a reference while editing gives the user a change to check that 
the title, author, date etc. are correct and what they want, before they save 
the data. If a bot comes along later, finds a bare Reference URL, and fills in 
the missing data, there doesn't seem to be any process by which the user can 
easily confirm that it's correct. This feels like it might be a concern, but it 
didn't come up during the Wishlist Survey, so perhaps I'm misunderstanding 
things.
  
  Right, this is a valid concern. I think it all boils down to the accuracy 
degree of citoid, and also whether it prefers false positives or false 
negatives when generating data (i.e. whether it knows the probability of the 
auto-generated data being correct for a given field, and what it does based on 
this probability, in terms of "generate data anyway" and "don't generate any 
data"). If it's not accuracy-focused, an entirely automatic process might 
indeed be problematic, and we might want to implement option 1 or 3 instead.
  
  > It seems to me that the first thing is to find out if anyone else is 
working on the while-editing tool
  
  +1
  
  > there's a 'Manual' tab in the references section on Test Wikidata, which 
looks like it's meant to have an 'Automatic' section next to it... but I guess 
it's not functioning yet (the code 

 looks like it's missing any other tab, and it doesn't look like 
`$wbRefTabsEnabled` is configurable)? So maybe we could help with that work, if 
it's been stalled?
  
  I think it used to work on the beta cluster, given T228411 
 and the comments at T199197 
, but maybe it was disabled since 
then.
  
  In T285498#7220165 , 
@Lydia_Pintscher wrote:
  
  > Thanks for looking into this! I think before you move forward we should 
have a call to talk through what the Wikidata team has already done with 
Marielle in this area. It's a deceptively simple problem on the surface.
  
  Thank you @Lydia_Pintscher, this would be fantastic!

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T285498: Wikidata: Investigate bibliographic bot

[Lydia_Pintscher]

Lydia_Pintscher added a comment.


  Thanks for looking into this! I think before you move forward we should have 
a call to talk through what the Wikidata team has already done with Marielle in 
this area. It's a deceptively simple problem on the surface.

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T285498: Wikidata: Investigate bibliographic bot

[Samwilson]

Samwilson updated the task description.

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T285498: Wikidata: Investigate bibliographic bot

[Samwilson]

Samwilson added a comment.


  > A part which queries Wikidata for bare URLs.
  
  A Sparql query can do this, and perhaps we'd want to query based on missing 
reference properties, and not just alone Reference URLs (e.g. a URL and title 
might be set, but no author or published date).
  
  > A part which parses the citoid output and puts it back on the wiki.
  
  It's certainly be possible to do this, given the data returned by Citoid, but 
I'm wondering if this is reliable enough for an unsupervised process. For 
example, adding a reference while editing gives the user a change to check that 
the title, author, date etc. are correct and what they want, before they save 
the data. If a bot comes along later, finds a bare Reference URL, and fills in 
the missing data, there doesn't seem to be any process by which the user can 
easily confirm that it's correct. This feels like it might be a concern, but it 
didn't come up during the Wishlist Survey, so perhaps I'm misunderstanding 
things.
  
  It seems to me that the first thing is to find out if anyone else is working 
on the while-editing tool: there's a 'Manual' tab in the references section on 
Test Wikidata, which looks like it's meant to have an 'Automatic' section next 
to it... but I guess it's not functioning yet (the code 

 looks like it's missing any other tab, and it doesn't look like 
`$wbRefTabsEnabled` is configurable)? So maybe we could help with that work, if 
it's been stalled?

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T285498: Wikidata: Investigate bibliographic bot

[Daimona]

Daimona moved this task from In Development  to Review/Feedback  on the 
Community-Tech (CommTech-Sprint-4) board.
Daimona added a comment.


  Preliminary investigation
  -
  
  What follows is my preliminary investigation on this wish. It is not complete 
yet, mostly because I think we need to refine the scope, and then maybe put 
additional effort into one direction.
  
  Problem statement, AIUI
  ---
  
  Many references on Wikidata only consist of a bare URL. This is subpar 
because it doesn't expose detail about the source, at least not in a structured 
format (note, I'm making this statement given my experience as a Wikipedia 
editor, but with little knowledge about Wikidata). We want a way to reduce the 
amount of such references.
  
  Possible solutions
  --
  
  I can see three ways in which we can act in order to mitigate the issue:
  
  1. Provide visual guidance on the VisualEditor, so users will add structured 
references right from the start (or use this to autofill details on existing 
bare URLs while editing).
  2. Provide an on-wiki gadget that does the same thing as 1.
  3. Provide an external tool, with a nice interface and OAuth-based, that 
editors can use to change existing references on a given page to make them 
structured.
  4. Create a bot (without an OAuth-based interface) that periodically scans 
for bare URLs and replaces them with structured data.
  
  Below is an initial investigation on each of these, but we might want to 
focus only on some of them. Note that options 3. and 4. are not mutually 
exclusive. In fact, we might merge them into a single tool that scans things on 
its own but can also be manually controlled (like IABot).
  
  1. While editing
  
  
  This approach is essentially what citoid 
 does out of Wikidata. When you click 
the button to add a reference and the dialog appears, you have an option to 
autogenerate data from a URL. So what we would need here is citoid integration 
with Wikidata. There is already a task for this: T199197: [2.11] Integrate 
Citoid in Wikidata  (see also the 
subtasks). That task is stalled, but TTBOMK, some teams were (are?) already 
working on this. We might want to get in touch with them before exploring this 
direction or deciding that we don't want to go there.
  
  Also, I think it's worth noting that according to T199197 
, the integration should already be 
on for beta wikidata. I went to tried this at 
https://wikidata.beta.wmflabs.org/wiki/Q381012 (which is a test page linked in 
that same task), but I didn't get any option to generate structured data from a 
URL. So either it's been disabled there, or I'm missing something.
  
  2. Gadget
  -
  
  There's already a user script for this: User:Aude/citoid.js 
 (which was mentioned 
above), plus the fork 
 mentioned by 
Sam. AIUI, this is just a stopgap until option 1 is implemented. IMHO, it's not 
worth putting effort into implementing/refining a stopgap. Also, if we were to 
go this route, there wouldn't be much to do, beyond making sure that the code 
works and has all the functionality that we need. Note that these scripts use 
citoid as backend.
  
  3. Manual OAuth tool
  
  
  There is already a tool for this that works on Wikipedia: 
https://refill.toolforge.org/. This tool is written in python and looks very 
good, it has a nice interface and it's localized. It also works well 
.
 The problem, as implied before, is that it only works on Wikipedia, so not on 
Wikidata. The tool also uses citoid as backend.
  
  What to do in this direction depends on the approach we want to follow. If a 
web interface is enough, we can maybe get in touch with the maintainer and add 
wikidata support to this tool. If we also want a dedicated backend (i.e. a 
bot), then building on top of refill may or may not be the best thing to do.
  
  4. Bot
  --
  
  I couldn't find an existing bot that performs this task (I grepped bot user 
pages on wikidata with a few keywords like `P854`). We can architect such a bot 
pretty much however we feel right. I believe the only certain thing is that we 
need to use citoid as backend. It exposes a REST API 
 which apparently 
has support for a "wikibase" output format. Essentially, we'd have to put 
together:
  
  - A part which queries Wikidata for bare URLs. I don't have a solution for 
this due to my lack of knowledge about Wikidata, but I'm confident that there's 
a way to do this with high precision.
  - A part which queries the citoid API to 

[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T285498: Wikidata: Investigate bibliographic bot

[Daimona]

Daimona claimed this task.
Daimona moved this task from Ready  to In Development  on the Community-Tech 
(CommTech-Sprint-4) board.

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T285498: Wikidata: Investigate bibliographic bot

[Samwilson]

Samwilson added a comment.


  There's a fork of the above citoid.js at 
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:MichaelSchoenitzer/CiteTool

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T285498: Wikidata: Investigate bibliographic bot

[Samwilson]

Samwilson updated the task description.

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T285498: Wikidata: Investigate bibliographic bot

[HMonroy]

HMonroy added projects: Wikidata, Community-Tech.
HMonroy updated the task description.

TASK DETAIL
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T285498

EMAIL PREFERENCES
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/

To: HMonroy
Cc: HMonroy, Aklapper, NRodriguez, ldelench_wmf, Invadibot, maantietaja, 
Akuckartz, ifried, Nandana, Lahi, Gq86, dmaza, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, 
LawExplorer, JJMC89, B20180, _jensen, rosalieper, Scott_WUaS, Samwilson, Nakon, 
MusikAnimal, Wikidata-bugs, aude, Ricordisamoa, -jem-, Mbch331, Krenair
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