[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T227036: Wikimania Hackathon 2019 proposal: metadata standard for map georectification

[Abbe98]

Abbe98 added a comment.


  Closing this as the hackathon is over and all relevant links seems to be 
present here.

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T227036: Wikimania Hackathon 2019 proposal: metadata standard for map georectification

[bert]

bert added a comment.


  I've created 3 GitHub repositories during the hackathon:
  
  - https://github.com/bertspaan/wikimania-hackathon-2019: data from 
repositories with historical maps, and code to cross-reference this data
  - https://github.com/bertspaan/georectify-json-spec: JSON Schema 
specification of metadata needed to georectify maps
  - https://github.com/bertspaan/georectify-service: web service and Docker 
container to compute GeoJSON masks and GeoTIFFs from images with 
georectify-json-spec metadata

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T227036: Wikimania Hackathon 2019 proposal: metadata standard for map georectification

[Jheald]

Jheald added a comment.


  To link the original file to these objects, three new SDC properties are 
proposed:
  
  - georeferencing control point data 

  - georeferencing pixel mask data 

  - georeferencing mask geoshape 

  
  Due to the limitations inherent in the Wikibase statement structure (in 
particular, the limit of a single level of qualifiers), and the wish to 
potentially add qualifiers to these statements, eg relating them to a 
particular file revison, or to add information to distinguish between different 
live variant versions of the files, the most straightforward approach would 
seem for these to stand as independent full statements,  related to a 
particular part of the image using qualifier `P518` "applies to part".   
Additionally a new proposed qualifier "based on tabular data" (proposal 
)
 would link the mask geoshape statement to the particular files with the 
tabular data (out of many that might be associated with the image) used to 
generate it.
  
  SDC property proposals and space for discussion at: 
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/georeferencing_data

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T227036: Wikimania Hackathon 2019 proposal: metadata standard for map georectification

[Jheald]

Jheald added a comment.


  Resource page (under development): 
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Bertspaan/maps

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T227036: Wikimania Hackathon 2019 proposal: metadata standard for map georectification

[Abbe98]

Abbe98 added a comment.


  So was thinking about moving the georeference data from Wikimaps Warper to 
Commons or Wikidata a few years back the main options were:
  
  - Wikidata statements for induvidual control points
  - One Wikidata statement with a geometry data type (new at the time)
  - Using the "Data" namespace at Commons (CSV or GeoJSON)
  
  I think the overall conclusion were that the Data namespace was the best 
option but we never implemented it.

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T227036: Wikimania Hackathon 2019 proposal: metadata standard for map georectification

[Jheald]

Jheald added a comment.


  By the way, I have a Wikidata property proposal suggested for external 
georeferencer URL 
,
 since a basic thing we will want to record is whether an external service has 
georeferencing for an image, and if so what the relevant URL is.
  
  The proposal has been up a couple of weeks, but so far hasn't attracted any 
discussion.

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T227036: Wikimania Hackathon 2019 proposal: metadata standard for map georectification

[Jheald]

Jheald added a comment.


  @bert I'll be there; I'm coming in on the Tuesday afternoon flight from 
Edinburgh, and then I'll be at the Comfort Hotel Xpress Stockholm Central.
  
  My focus so far has been trying to identify good Commons categories for maps 
based on bounding boxes for the georeferencing.  I've now got reasonable code 
to do that for the UK & Ireland -- see the pages here 
 for 
preparations, and hoping to get some uploading going soon.
  
  The rest of the world 
 
outside the UK is more work-in-progress, and I could use some input from people 
with local knowledge to try to achieve appropriate similar refinement.
  
  I am or will be doing Wikidata matching for all the fields I can, but 
initially with a view to writing to Wikidata-driven field templates in 
conventional file description pages, rather than SDC statements.  These should 
be easy enough to translate into matching SDC statements when the time comes, 
but at the moment my intention would be to wait until QuickStatements is 
available for bulk writing of statements, and a SPARQL service for systematic 
retrieval, before any systematic creation of SDC statements.
  
  I am interested by IIIF, but don't know enough about it.   Later versions of 
the Klokan georeferencer use IIIF for all their tile serving (ie including maps 
layers and the image to be georeferenced).  The GLAM I am working with would 
very much like to move from its images from Klokan's IIIF service to an IIIF 
service provided by WikiCommons, and use that to feed the Klokan georeferencer; 
but that would need enterprise-level throughput robustness and reliability, 
which the present WMF Labs prototype just doesn't deliver.   There are some 
indications that a proper IIIF service might be provided by an upcoming 
revision of the Wiki Multimedia service, but at the moment no hard timeline or 
guarantees.
  
  The other aspect of IIIF would be how to expose georeferencing information as 
IIIF annotations.  I really know *very* little about the IIIF annotation 
syntax, other than that it exists.  But if this looked plausible (and could be 
made compatible with offerings from other services, eg Klokan and Recogito, it 
could be quite interesting.

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T227036: Wikimania Hackathon 2019 proposal: metadata standard for map georectification

[Susannaanas]

Susannaanas added a comment.


  I have made mockups for a georectification tool for #wikidocumentaries 
 at 
https://wikidocumentaries.wmflabs.org/wiki/Rectifying_maps. They are based on 
layouts for the Wikimaps tools that were never realized, and adjusted for the 
Wikidocumentaries architecture. It does not include masking yet, maybe we could 
reflect on what is created at the hackathon. I will be eager to work on the 
best practises for storing rectification information in Wikimedia projects.

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T227036: Wikimania Hackathon 2019 proposal: metadata standard for map georectification

[bert]

bert added a comment.


  (@Jheald: it took a little longer finding time to reply, I'm on my way to the 
conference in Stockholm, by bicycle. Between all the riding, it's been 
difficult to find time to finally reply to your comment! Will you be at the 
hackathon, by the way? I'd love to talk more about all of this with you in 
person.)
  
  I had this idea before I knew I was going to attend the hackathon. I've 
worked with georectified maps from different sources and different software 
tools over the last years. I've always wished there was more interoperability 
of map metadata between all these sources/tools. And I think it's time for a 
search tool that can find historical maps from all important repositories of 
georectified historical maps.
  
  > Bert's proposal sounds like a suggestion for an additional type of Commons 
data object, with a specified JSON structure. This would likely require edits 
to the MediaWiki code itself, which might take some time coming; and would it 
necessarily be storing the data where we wanted it?
  
  In my proposal I'm using a JSON structure as an example, just as a way to sum 
up all the fields needed to capture a complete map georectification. I'd like 
to use the hackathon to come up with a data structure that is compatible with, 
for example, Map Warper, Wikidata, Klokan and IIIF. The data structure could be 
a JSON structure, together with transformers to make it compatible with  
Commons structured-data statements, and Commons data objects.

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T227036: Wikimania Hackathon 2019 proposal: metadata standard for map georectification

[bert]

bert added a comment.


  @Jheald, thanks for your detailed response; I'll reply Monday or Tuesday, 
when I have more time!

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T227036: Wikimania Hackathon 2019 proposal: metadata standard for map georectification

[Jheald]

Jheald added a comment.


  @bert Interesting proposal.  But for me it raises some issues.  Firstly, 
about the business case for it.  Secondly, regarding implementation.
  
  Business case first.  At the moment we store this information within the 
Commons MapWarper app.  Our reasons should be clarified for why this is 
unsatisfactory or suboptimal, and what the new structure would aim to achieve 
over what exists at present.   More visibility, more transparency, more obvious 
accessibility might be things that would be on that list.  Are there other ways 
that we hope what we would build would improve on what presently exists?
  
  Secondly, implementation.  If we want to store the information in a 
WikiCommons environment, then it needs to be built on two things:  Commons 
structured-data statements, and Commons data objects.  Currently two forms of 
Commons data objects are defined: tabular data objects ( 
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Tabular_Data ) and shapefile objects ( 
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Map_Data ); but additional formats could 
possibly be added.
  
  A question is: what information should go where.
  
  Currently we have a file and then a link to a georeferencer app, so eg:
  
  - File:Northern provinces of the United States - drawn and engraved for 
Thomson's New general atlas, 1817; Hewitt Sc. ... NYPL434391.tiff 

 ->  http://maps.nypl.org/warper/maps/13071#Preview_tab  (NYPL MapWarper)
  - File:Pigot and Co (1842) p2.138 - Map of Lancashire.jpg 

 -> http://britishlibrary.georeferencer.com/id/11020006456   (Klokan version 2)
  - File:Larousse, Plan de Paris, 1900 - David Rumsey.jpg 

 -> https://davidrumsey.georeferencer.com/maps/553129769171/view  (Klokan 
version 4)
  - File:1768 Jeffreys Wall Map of India and Ceylon - Geographicus - 
India-jeffreys-1768.jpg 

 -> https://warper.wmflabs.org/maps/1998#Preview_tab (Commons MapWarper)
  
  More maps with georeferencing can be found in sub-categories of 
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Maps_with_georeferencing
  
  Bert's proposal sounds like a suggestion for an additional type of Commons 
data object, with a specified JSON structure.  This would likely require edits 
to the MediaWiki code itself, which might take some time coming; and would it 
necessarily be storing the data where we wanted it?
  
  For maximum visibility, and accessibility through SPARQL queries, an 
alternative approach would be to store much of the georeferencing metadata as 
structured-data (SDC) statements directly on the metadata page for the file.  
To group everything together, one would probably want to have a single 
master-statement, with further information added as qualifiers.   A couple of 
options suggest themselves for the master-statement.  One might be for it to 
give a link to a geo-rectified version of the map, stored statically as an 
image on Commons.  Qualifiers would then be used to state the mask and other 
parameters used to generate the transformation.   Multiple master-statements 
could be used to link to different re-projections of different parts of the map.
  
  Alternatively, it might be more flexible to make the master-statement a 
definition of a particular part of the map, with the link to a geo-rectified 
version then one of the qualifiers.  This might fit better with syntax to 
annotate particular regions of an image -- so stage 1 of a process might be to 
say that part of an image depicted say Orkney and was an inset map, stage 2 
might be to identify a detailed mask or outline to that sub-part of the image, 
stage 3 might be to add georeferencing to it; potentially with several months 
separating each stage.   The preferred data-model for annotating part of an 
image in SDC hasn't really been thrashed out.  But it may be that the top-level 
master statement would be //what// that region of the image depicts, with a 
qualifier saying //where// in the image it is (perhaps by box, perhaps by 
mask), and then further qualifiers specifying metadata about the 
georeferencing.   One limitation of SDC is that currently one can't have a 
qualifier on a qualifier, so if one wanted to note additional things about any 
of the qualifers one couldn't.  To some extent it may be possible to work round 
this, but this may be a limitation of the SDC model that will ultimately have 
to be re-visited.
  
  The detailed data for control points (the GCPS data) is //not// suitable for 
storage as structured data statements.  From experience with some 

[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T227036: Wikimania Hackathon 2019 proposal: metadata standard for map georectification

[Orienteerix]

Orienteerix added a comment.


  @bert I think this is great proposal!
  
  When defining a format (or standard or API...) that is interest for 
significant user group there is need to balance ease of use to amount of 
features in the format. In any case, as shown in the proposal, I think that the 
idea of having possibiity to include metadata of the multiple images to same 
file is good since, for example, single historical map could consist of 
multiple images. I think the list shared by @Abbe98 is also useful for finding 
many possible features to include.
  
  Historical maps that are rectified likely do not suffer from the geographical 
location inaccuracy caused by the use of EPSG:4326. Also, EPSG:4326 has been 
removed from GeoJSON standard because of the interoperability issues. On the 
orher hand, even though GeoJSON does not officially support other than 
EPSG:4326 other projections are also used with it. For example, Oskari 
 can use EPSG:3067 in GeoJSONs. In any case, even 
though also GDAL supports various projections in georectification, I think a 
bit to think here is also if the metadata format for georectification is to be 
standard at some point in future.

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T227036: Wikimania Hackathon 2019 proposal: metadata standard for map georectification

[Susannaanas]

Susannaanas added a comment.


  In T227036#5316976 , 
@Abbe98 wrote:
  
  > Dropping this resource here:
  > 
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Maps/Historical_map_properties
  > It might need an update but should still be relevant.
  
  Great, thanks for linking! I think I could go through the page to spot any 
outdated data. There may be additional properties that we could use.
  
  On another note, I think we could try to identify challenges in data storage 
/ exchange before the hackathon. And invite related people to this ticket.

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Commented On] T227036: Wikimania Hackathon 2019 proposal: metadata standard for map georectification

[Abbe98]

Abbe98 added a comment.


  Dropping this resource here:
  
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Maps/Historical_map_properties
  
  It might need an update but should still be relevant.

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Silverfish, _jensen, rosalieper, Jane023, Wikidata-bugs, Base, matthiasmullie, 
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