[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Updated] T167989: Add “integer” constraint
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Updated] T167989: Add “integer” constraint
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Updated] T167989: Add “integer” constraint
MisterSynergy added a comment. In T167989#4209937, @thiemowmde wrote: Let's say the size of a team was 50±0.5 people in 2017. Such a confidence interval tells me that there must have been some fluctuation over the year, but not a huge one. What’s the exact meaning of such “±0.5 bounds”? It just transports the qualitative notion of “some fluctuation over the year” with a meaningless quantitative number that you somehow found appropriate. Say you had a team size of 49 most of the year which suddenly increased to 52 shortly before end of the year, and you managed to somehow calculate the quantity as given above. Unfortunately, at no time ever there were 50 people in your team, also your team size has never been within the bounds, and there have never been half team members, as you state by yourself. This is a good example where bounds are (ab)used to replace either ranges (49–52), or where alternatively two independent claims (49 at beginning of the year, 52 at the end of the year) should be used instead. If you just wanted to state that the value is some approximation or estimation, we typically add qualifiers “sourcing circumstances (P1480): circa (Q5727902)” to the claim. This way we avoid to desperately quantify a qualitative claim. Why do you think "passenger" is not a valid unit? Countable sets such as “number of passengers/apples/…” do not have a unit (or better: have unit 1, in Wikidata in some situations represented as http://www.wikidata.org/entity/Q199). Constraints in Wikidata typically respect that (e.g. “number of participants” property at https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P1132, but have a look at the violations: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Database_reports/Constraint_violations/P1132#%22Units%22_violations).TASK DETAILhttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T167989EMAIL PREFERENCEShttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/To: Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, MisterSynergyCc: Ladsgroup, gerritbot, MisterSynergy, Esc3300, thiemowmde, daniel, Jonas, Lydia_Pintscher, Aklapper, Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, Versusxo, Majesticalreaper22, Giuliamocci, Adrian1985, Cpaulf30, Lahi, Gq86, Baloch007, Darkminds3113, Bsandipan, Lordiis, GoranSMilovanovic, lisong, Adik2382, Soteriaspace, Jayprakash12345, Th3d3v1ls, JakeTheDeveloper, Ramalepe, Liugev6, QZanden, LawExplorer, Lewizho99, Maathavan, Agabi10, Wikidata-bugs, aude, TheDJ, Mbch331___ Wikidata-bugs mailing list Wikidata-bugs@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-bugs
[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Updated] T167989: Add “integer” constraint
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Updated] T167989: Add “integer” constraint
MisterSynergy added a comment. Sorry for being late. I have now been working with quantity datatype properties a lot and I have to disagree here. I think that we should allow only integer bounds when the value is integer, as bounds cannot be non-integers in those cases. Let’s have a look at actual numbers: right now we have ~3.8M statements of quantity properties with integer constraint (~2.7M mainsnak, ~1.1M qualifier, barely any in reference). In exactly one case there is an integer value with non-integer bounds, which is the P1114 qualifier of https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q26882302#P186 – that claim has other isses anyway and needs to be fixed. (I removed ~10 other wrong uses of bounds this morning). Maybe I should add a more general rant about the quantity datatype here: users don’t understand it, which is why the vast majority of bounds and a substantial amount of units are wrong. Reasons: The meaning of bounds in quantity datatype properties is not well-defined (particularly here: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Help:Data_type#quantity and https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikibase/DataModel#Quantities). The term “uncertainty interval” indicates that it should be used as measurement uncertainty, confidence intervals, etc., but this is actually not the case in Wikidata. This leads to a situation where users use bounds as they personally prefer to, but one cannot rely on a particular meaning of any bounds given in Wikidata. This also encourages users to abuse bounds for other purposes, e.g. compensate the lack of other datatypes. General rule: valid bounds can also be found in the referenced sources of a claim. I’d say that clearly more than 95% of all bounds in Wikidata fail that criterion, as they are personal flavor of individual users or residuals of the automatic ±0 bounds addition of the software that we saw in the past. Due to the lack of a “range” datatype, users add bounds as follows: source A claims a person has 2 children, and source B claims the same person has 3 children. Users add: 2.5±0.5 children, as this covers the range of values found in sources. (Yet I am not sure whether we should have a “range” datatype; multiple claims and use of ranks are the solution here.) The lack of a “number” datatype makes the integer constraint necessary. This works out to some extent as we can see, but it is not optimal: A “number” datatype would make accidental decimal places impossible. A lot of wrong uses of units could be avoided as well (units such as “apple”, “passenger”, “train”, etc.) if the “number” datatype had a different kind of or even no unit attached. TASK DETAILhttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T167989EMAIL PREFERENCEShttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/To: Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, MisterSynergyCc: Ladsgroup, gerritbot, MisterSynergy, Esc3300, thiemowmde, daniel, Jonas, Lydia_Pintscher, Aklapper, Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, Versusxo, Majesticalreaper22, Giuliamocci, Adrian1985, Cpaulf30, Lahi, Gq86, Baloch007, Darkminds3113, Bsandipan, Lordiis, GoranSMilovanovic, lisong, Adik2382, Soteriaspace, Jayprakash12345, Th3d3v1ls, JakeTheDeveloper, Ramalepe, Liugev6, QZanden, LawExplorer, Lewizho99, Maathavan, Agabi10, Wikidata-bugs, aude, TheDJ, Mbch331___ Wikidata-bugs mailing list Wikidata-bugs@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-bugs
[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Updated] T167989: Add “integer” constraint
Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE added a comment. For practical purposes I would introduce a separate "precise" constraint that disallows uncertainty bounds, if something like this is needed. I would implement the integer constraint in a way that is independent from that and ignores uncertainty bounds entirely. That already exists: T170610: Add “no bounds” constraint – and in fact I expect that these constraints will typically be used together (effectively providing T112247: [RFC] Create a "number" datatype for exact values), so I think it’s mostly a theoretical question.TASK DETAILhttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T167989EMAIL PREFERENCEShttps://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/To: Ladsgroup, Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDECc: gerritbot, MisterSynergy, Esc3300, thiemowmde, daniel, Jonas, Lydia_Pintscher, Aklapper, Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, Versusxo, Majesticalreaper22, Giuliamocci, Adrian1985, Cpaulf30, Lahi, Gq86, Baloch007, Darkminds3113, Bsandipan, Lordiis, GoranSMilovanovic, lisong, Adik2382, Soteriaspace, Jayprakash12345, Th3d3v1ls, JakeTheDeveloper, Ramalepe, Liugev6, QZanden, LawExplorer, Lewizho99, Maathavan, Agabi10, Wikidata-bugs, aude, TheDJ, Mbch331___ Wikidata-bugs mailing list Wikidata-bugs@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-bugs
[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Updated] T167989: Add “integer” constraint
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Updated] T167989: Add “integer” constraint
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] [Updated] T167989: Add “integer” constraint
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