[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T286239: Make tlh-latn and tlh-piqd a valid monolingual string language

[Arian_Bozorg]

Arian_Bozorg closed this task as "Resolved".
Arian_Bozorg moved this task from Product Verification to Our work done on the 
Wikidata Dev Team (Sprint-∞) board.
Arian_Bozorg claimed this task.
Arian_Bozorg added a comment.


  This looks good to me :)
  
  Thanks so much

TASK DETAIL
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T286239

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To: Arian_Bozorg
Cc: Michael, Arian_Bozorg, Bawolff, Naseweis520, Mahir256, 
Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, Manuel, Nikki, Mbch331, Amire80, Shisma, Esc3300, 
jhsoby, Ameisenigel, Aklapper, Loominade, Danny_Benjafield_WMDE, 
mrephabricator, Astuthiodit_1, karapayneWMDE, Invadibot, maantietaja, 
ItamarWMDE, Akuckartz, Nandana, Lahi, Gq86, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, 
srishakatux, LawExplorer, _jensen, rosalieper, Scott_WUaS, Wikidata-bugs, aude, 
Lydia_Pintscher
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T286239: Make tlh-latn and tlh-piqd a valid monolingual string language

[Michael]

Michael moved this task from Peer Review to Product Verification on the 
Wikidata Dev Team (Sprint-∞) board.
Michael added a comment.


  Can be verified on beta wikidata. Should be in production next week.

TASK DETAIL
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T286239

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To: Michael
Cc: Michael, Arian_Bozorg, Bawolff, Naseweis520, Mahir256, 
Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, Manuel, Nikki, Mbch331, Amire80, Shisma, Esc3300, 
jhsoby, Ameisenigel, Aklapper, Loominade, Danny_Benjafield_WMDE, 
mrephabricator, Astuthiodit_1, karapayneWMDE, Invadibot, maantietaja, 
ItamarWMDE, Akuckartz, Nandana, Lahi, Gq86, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, 
srishakatux, LawExplorer, _jensen, rosalieper, Scott_WUaS, Wikidata-bugs, aude, 
Lydia_Pintscher
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T286239: Make tlh-latn and tlh-piqd a valid monolingual string language

[Maintenance_bot]

Maintenance_bot removed a project: Patch-For-Review.

TASK DETAIL
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To: Maintenance_bot
Cc: Arian_Bozorg, Bawolff, Naseweis520, Mahir256, Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, 
Manuel, Nikki, Mbch331, Amire80, Shisma, Esc3300, jhsoby, Ameisenigel, 
Aklapper, Loominade, Danny_Benjafield_WMDE, mrephabricator, Astuthiodit_1, 
karapayneWMDE, Invadibot, maantietaja, ItamarWMDE, Akuckartz, Nandana, Lahi, 
Gq86, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, srishakatux, LawExplorer, _jensen, 
rosalieper, Scott_WUaS, Wikidata-bugs, aude, Lydia_Pintscher, 
Isabelladantes1983, Themindcoder, Adamm71, Jersione, Hellket777, LisafBia6531, 
786, Biggs657, Juan90264, Alter-paule, Beast1978, Un1tY, Hook696, Kent7301, 
joker88john, CucyNoiD, Gaboe420, Giuliamocci, Cpaulf30, Af420, Bsandipan, 
Lewizho99, Maathavan, Neuronton
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T286239: Make tlh-latn and tlh-piqd a valid monolingual string language

[ReleaseTaggerBot]

ReleaseTaggerBot added a project: MW-1.41-notes (1.41.0-wmf.28; 2023-09-26).

TASK DETAIL
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To: ReleaseTaggerBot
Cc: Arian_Bozorg, Bawolff, Naseweis520, Mahir256, Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, 
Manuel, Nikki, Mbch331, Amire80, Shisma, Esc3300, jhsoby, Ameisenigel, 
Aklapper, Loominade, Danny_Benjafield_WMDE, Isabelladantes1983, Themindcoder, 
Adamm71, Jersione, Hellket777, mrephabricator, LisafBia6531, Astuthiodit_1, 
786, Biggs657, karapayneWMDE, Invadibot, maantietaja, Juan90264, Alter-paule, 
Beast1978, ItamarWMDE, Un1tY, Akuckartz, Hook696, Kent7301, joker88john, 
CucyNoiD, Nandana, Gaboe420, Giuliamocci, Cpaulf30, Lahi, Gq86, Af420, 
Bsandipan, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, srishakatux, LawExplorer, Lewizho99, 
Maathavan, _jensen, rosalieper, Neuronton, Scott_WUaS, Wikidata-bugs, aude, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T286239: Make tlh-latn and tlh-piqd a valid monolingual string language

[gerritbot]

gerritbot added a comment.


  Change 734715 **merged** by jenkins-bot:
  
  [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase@master] Add klingon for monolingual codes
  
  https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/734715

TASK DETAIL
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To: gerritbot
Cc: Arian_Bozorg, Bawolff, Naseweis520, Mahir256, Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, 
Manuel, Nikki, Mbch331, Amire80, Shisma, Esc3300, jhsoby, Ameisenigel, 
Aklapper, Loominade, Danny_Benjafield_WMDE, Isabelladantes1983, Themindcoder, 
Adamm71, Jersione, Hellket777, mrephabricator, LisafBia6531, Astuthiodit_1, 
786, Biggs657, karapayneWMDE, Invadibot, maantietaja, Juan90264, Alter-paule, 
Beast1978, ItamarWMDE, Un1tY, Akuckartz, Hook696, Kent7301, joker88john, 
CucyNoiD, Nandana, Gaboe420, Giuliamocci, Cpaulf30, Lahi, Gq86, Af420, 
Bsandipan, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, srishakatux, LawExplorer, Lewizho99, 
Maathavan, _jensen, rosalieper, Neuronton, Scott_WUaS, Wikidata-bugs, aude, 
Lydia_Pintscher
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T286239: Make tlh-latn and tlh-piqd a valid monolingual string language

[karapayneWMDE]

karapayneWMDE moved this task from Unified dot  to Sprint-∞ on the Wikidata Dev 
Team board.
karapayneWMDE edited projects, added Wikidata Dev Team (Sprint-∞); removed 
Wikidata Dev Team.

TASK DETAIL
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To: karapayneWMDE
Cc: Arian_Bozorg, Bawolff, Naseweis520, Mahir256, Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, 
Manuel, Nikki, Mbch331, Amire80, Shisma, Esc3300, jhsoby, Ameisenigel, 
Aklapper, Loominade, Danny_Benjafield_WMDE, Isabelladantes1983, Themindcoder, 
Adamm71, Jersione, Hellket777, mrephabricator, LisafBia6531, Astuthiodit_1, 
786, Biggs657, karapayneWMDE, Invadibot, maantietaja, Juan90264, Alter-paule, 
Beast1978, ItamarWMDE, Un1tY, Akuckartz, Hook696, Kent7301, joker88john, 
CucyNoiD, Nandana, Gaboe420, Giuliamocci, Cpaulf30, Lahi, Gq86, Af420, 
Bsandipan, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, srishakatux, LawExplorer, Lewizho99, 
Maathavan, _jensen, rosalieper, Neuronton, Scott_WUaS, Wikidata-bugs, aude, 
Lydia_Pintscher
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T286239: Make tlh-latn and tlh-piqd a valid monolingual string language

[karapayneWMDE]

karapayneWMDE set the point value for this task to "1".

TASK DETAIL
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To: karapayneWMDE
Cc: Arian_Bozorg, Bawolff, Naseweis520, Mahir256, Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, 
Manuel, Nikki, Mbch331, Amire80, Shisma, Esc3300, jhsoby, Ameisenigel, 
Aklapper, Loominade, Danny_Benjafield_WMDE, Isabelladantes1983, Themindcoder, 
Adamm71, Jersione, Hellket777, mrephabricator, LisafBia6531, Astuthiodit_1, 
786, Biggs657, karapayneWMDE, Invadibot, maantietaja, Juan90264, Alter-paule, 
Beast1978, ItamarWMDE, Un1tY, Akuckartz, Hook696, Kent7301, joker88john, 
CucyNoiD, Nandana, Gaboe420, Giuliamocci, Cpaulf30, Lahi, Gq86, Af420, 
Bsandipan, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, srishakatux, LawExplorer, Lewizho99, 
Maathavan, _jensen, rosalieper, Neuronton, Scott_WUaS, Wikidata-bugs, aude, 
Lydia_Pintscher
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T286239: Make tlh-latn and tlh-piqd a valid monolingual string language

[Lydia_Pintscher]

Lydia_Pintscher added a project: Wikidata Dev Team.

TASK DETAIL
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To: Lydia_Pintscher
Cc: Arian_Bozorg, Bawolff, Naseweis520, Mahir256, Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, 
Manuel, Nikki, Mbch331, Amire80, Shisma, Esc3300, jhsoby, Ameisenigel, 
Aklapper, Loominade, Danny_Benjafield_WMDE, Isabelladantes1983, Themindcoder, 
Adamm71, Jersione, Hellket777, mrephabricator, LisafBia6531, Astuthiodit_1, 
786, Biggs657, karapayneWMDE, Invadibot, maantietaja, Juan90264, Alter-paule, 
Beast1978, ItamarWMDE, Un1tY, Akuckartz, Hook696, Kent7301, joker88john, 
CucyNoiD, Nandana, Gaboe420, Giuliamocci, Cpaulf30, Lahi, Gq86, Af420, 
Bsandipan, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, srishakatux, LawExplorer, Lewizho99, 
Maathavan, _jensen, rosalieper, Neuronton, Scott_WUaS, Wikidata-bugs, aude, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T286239: Make tlh-latn and tlh-piqd a valid monolingual string language

[Mbch331]

Mbch331 added a comment.


  It was never removed from CLDR, so CLDR doesn't need to be repatched.
  I rebased my patch for Wikibase on the current master.
  Not sure if anything else needs to be done (besides approving my Wikibase 
patch). Not up to date with the steps that are needed nowadays for adding new 
monolingual languages.

TASK DETAIL
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T286239

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To: Mbch331
Cc: Arian_Bozorg, Bawolff, Naseweis520, Mahir256, Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, 
Manuel, Nikki, Mbch331, Amire80, Shisma, Esc3300, jhsoby, Ameisenigel, 
Aklapper, Loominade, Danny_Benjafield_WMDE, Isabelladantes1983, Themindcoder, 
Adamm71, Jersione, Hellket777, mrephabricator, LisafBia6531, Astuthiodit_1, 
786, Biggs657, karapayneWMDE, Invadibot, maantietaja, Juan90264, Alter-paule, 
Beast1978, ItamarWMDE, Un1tY, Akuckartz, Hook696, Kent7301, joker88john, 
CucyNoiD, Nandana, Gaboe420, Giuliamocci, Cpaulf30, Lahi, Gq86, Af420, 
Bsandipan, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, srishakatux, LawExplorer, Lewizho99, 
Maathavan, _jensen, rosalieper, Neuronton, Scott_WUaS, Wikidata-bugs, aude, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T286239: Make tlh-latn and tlh-piqd a valid monolingual string language

[Manuel]

Manuel added a subscriber: Arian_Bozorg.
Manuel added a comment.


  Thank you @Bawolff and @Nikki for your arguments! As this seems to still be 
an important concern for you, I will not block it anymore.
  
  @Arian_Bozorg: Can you please pick this up?

TASK DETAIL
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To: Manuel
Cc: Arian_Bozorg, Bawolff, Naseweis520, Mahir256, Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, 
Manuel, Nikki, Mbch331, Amire80, Shisma, Esc3300, jhsoby, Ameisenigel, 
Aklapper, Loominade, Danny_Benjafield_WMDE, Isabelladantes1983, Themindcoder, 
Adamm71, Jersione, Hellket777, mrephabricator, LisafBia6531, Astuthiodit_1, 
786, Biggs657, karapayneWMDE, Invadibot, maantietaja, Juan90264, Alter-paule, 
Beast1978, ItamarWMDE, Un1tY, Akuckartz, Hook696, Kent7301, joker88john, 
CucyNoiD, Nandana, Gaboe420, Giuliamocci, Cpaulf30, Lahi, Gq86, Af420, 
Bsandipan, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, srishakatux, LawExplorer, Lewizho99, 
Maathavan, _jensen, rosalieper, Neuronton, Scott_WUaS, Wikidata-bugs, aude, 
Lydia_Pintscher
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T286239: Make tlh-latn and tlh-piqd a valid monolingual string language

[Ameisenigel]

Ameisenigel added a comment.


  Is there anything one can do to move forward with this task?

TASK DETAIL
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To: Ameisenigel
Cc: Bawolff, Naseweis520, Mahir256, Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, Manuel, Nikki, 
Mbch331, Amire80, Shisma, Esc3300, jhsoby, Ameisenigel, Aklapper, Loominade, 
Danny_Benjafield_WMDE, Isabelladantes1983, Themindcoder, Adamm71, Jersione, 
Hellket777, mrephabricator, LisafBia6531, Astuthiodit_1, 786, Biggs657, 
karapayneWMDE, Invadibot, maantietaja, Juan90264, Alter-paule, Beast1978, 
ItamarWMDE, Un1tY, Akuckartz, Hook696, Kent7301, joker88john, CucyNoiD, 
Nandana, Gaboe420, Giuliamocci, Cpaulf30, Lahi, Gq86, Af420, Bsandipan, 
GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, srishakatux, LawExplorer, Lewizho99, Maathavan, 
_jensen, rosalieper, Neuronton, Scott_WUaS, Wikidata-bugs, aude, Lydia_Pintscher
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T286239: Make tlh-latn and tlh-piqd a valid monolingual string language

[Manuel]

Manuel moved this task from Team A Hearth  to Incoming on the 
Wikidata-Campsite board.
Manuel edited projects, added Wikidata-Campsite; removed Wikidata-Campsite 
(Team A Hearth ).

TASK DETAIL
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To: Manuel
Cc: Bawolff, Naseweis520, Mahir256, Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, Manuel, Nikki, 
Mbch331, Amire80, Shisma, Esc3300, jhsoby, Ameisenigel, Aklapper, Loominade, 
Adamm71, Jersione, Hellket777, mrephabricator, LisafBia6531, Astuthiodit_1, 
786, Biggs657, karapayneWMDE, Invadibot, maantietaja, Juan90264, Alter-paule, 
Beast1978, ItamarWMDE, Un1tY, Akuckartz, Hook696, Kent7301, RhinosF1, 
joker88john, CucyNoiD, Nandana, Gaboe420, Giuliamocci, Cpaulf30, Lahi, Gq86, 
Af420, Bsandipan, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, LawExplorer, Lewizho99, 
Maathavan, _jensen, rosalieper, Neuronton, Scott_WUaS, Wikidata-bugs, aude, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T286239: Make tlh-latn and tlh-piqd a valid monolingual string language

[Bawolff]

Bawolff added a comment.


  In T286239#7491899 , 
@Amire80 wrote:
  
  > This language code is valid, but Klingon has a history of copyright 
litigation, so I'd say this should also have some legal advice, which I cannot 
provide.
  
  IANAL, but from what i could google, the history of litigation seems to be 
https://torrentfreak.com/klingon-language-copyright-battle-ends-for-now-170113/ 
where the matter at hand wasn't really about the Klingon language itself but a 
more typical derrivative fictional work, and all references to the klingon 
language got excluded from the final case. I know the internet isn't the best 
place for legal advice, but this seems really overly cautious when most of the 
internet seems to think that conlangs cannot be copyrighted, and there doesn't 
seem to be a single case ever having happened about the subject.

TASK DETAIL
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To: Bawolff
Cc: Bawolff, Naseweis520, Mahir256, Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, Manuel, Nikki, 
Mbch331, Amire80, Shisma, Esc3300, jhsoby, Ameisenigel, Aklapper, Loominade, 
Jersione, Hellket777, mrephabricator, LisafBia6531, Astuthiodit_1, 786, 
Biggs657, karapayneWMDE, Invadibot, maantietaja, Juan90264, Alter-paule, 
Beast1978, ItamarWMDE, Un1tY, Akuckartz, Hook696, Kent7301, RhinosF1, 
joker88john, CucyNoiD, Nandana, Gaboe420, Giuliamocci, Cpaulf30, Lahi, Gq86, 
Af420, Bsandipan, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, LawExplorer, Lewizho99, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T286239: Make tlh-latn and tlh-piqd a valid monolingual string language

[Nikki]

Nikki reopened this task as "Open".
Nikki added a comment.


  In T286239#7492486 , 
@Manuel wrote:
  
  > I am happy to consider this again in case of more legal clarity and a 
broader community consensus 
 are reached 
elsewhere.
  
  I do think this needs reconsidering.
  
  Regarding community consensus:
  
  The closure of the Klingon Wikipedia in 2005 that you linked was seemingly a 
unilateral decision by Jimmy Wales rather than community consensus.
  
  In the 17 years since then, Klingon content has been added to a number of 
different Wikimedia projects in a range of different languages and those 
communities have not chosen to delete it.
  
  For example:
  
  - Audio files 
 and images 
of the writing system 
 on Commons since 
2006.
  - Entries for Klingon words and/or Klingon translations in the Afrikaans, 
Asturian, Breton, Catalan, German, English, Spanish, Basque, French, Frisian, 
Hindi, Italian, Greenlandic, Kurdish, Latin, Polish, Romanian, Russian, Swedish 
and Turkish Wiktionaries. There are links to the main categories on Q8574920 
 and some of those categories have 
existed for a long time. I didn't check them all, but they include German and 
Italian (since 2005), French and Russian (since 2006), and Afrikaans, Breton, 
Hindi and Spanish (since 2007).
  - Pages in the English (2005), Esperanto (2018), Spanish (2015) and Chinese 
(2017) Wikibooks (links on Q10134 ).
  - Pages in the English (2007) and Japanese (2017) Wikiversities (links on 
Q10134 ).
  - Pages in the English (2004) and Polish (2011) Wikiquotes (links on 
Q16531565 ).
  - Pages in the English (2006), Icelandic (2009) and Portuguese (2022) 
Wikipedias about the writing system (links 
) and in the German (2012), English 
(2013), French (2013) and Hebrew (2016) Wikipedias about the grammar (links 
).
  
  That to me shows broad acceptance for including Klingon content within 
individual projects, even if a dedicated Klingon Wikipedia would probably 
always be controversial.
  
  Regarding legal clarity:
  
  If someone believes including anything in Klingon is problematic, they're 
welcome to make a case for deleting all the existing content in Wikimedia 
projects, such as all the things I've linked so far (including previously in 
T286239#7317285 ). If 
there's no Klingon text in any Wikimedia projects, then nobody will have a use 
for `tlh`.
  
  But that's not what this ticket is about.
  
  This ticket is not asking to allow adding Klingon text. That's already 
possible, people are already doing it and the text is already there. It's 
asking to allow using the correct language code for it. I am not a lawyer but I 
am very sceptical that, in the event of a copyright complaint, saying "we knew 
that people were adding Klingon text but we're doing nothing wrong because 
we're not allowing people to use the correct language code for it... in some 
places" would convince anyone.
  
  In particular, rejecting this while still allowing `tlh` for lexemes is 
completely nonsensical. Either tagging Klingon text as `tlh` instead of `mis` 
is a problem or it isn't. If WMDE thinks it is a problem, why aren't you doing 
anything about `tlh` being allowed for lexemes? And if it's not a problem, then 
there's no reason to reject this request.

TASK DETAIL
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T286239

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To: Nikki
Cc: Naseweis520, Mahir256, Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, Manuel, Nikki, Mbch331, 
Amire80, Shisma, Esc3300, jhsoby, Ameisenigel, Aklapper, Loominade, Jersione, 
Hellket777, mrephabricator, LisafBia6531, Astuthiodit_1, 786, Biggs657, 
karapayneWMDE, Invadibot, maantietaja, Juan90264, Alter-paule, Beast1978, 
ItamarWMDE, Un1tY, Akuckartz, Hook696, Kent7301, RhinosF1, joker88john, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T286239: Make tlh-latn and tlh-piqd a valid monolingual string language

[Manuel]

Manuel updated the task description.

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To: Manuel
Cc: Naseweis520, Mahir256, Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, Manuel, Nikki, Mbch331, 
Amire80, Shisma, Esc3300, jhsoby, Ameisenigel, Aklapper, Loominade, 786, 
Suran38, Biggs657, Invadibot, Lalamarie69, maantietaja, Juan90264, Alter-paule, 
Beast1978, Un1tY, Akuckartz, Hook696, Kent7301, joker88john, CucyNoiD, Nandana, 
Gaboe420, Giuliamocci, Cpaulf30, Lahi, Gq86, Af420, Bsandipan, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T286239: Make tlh-latn and tlh-piqd a valid monolingual string language

[Mahir256]

Mahir256 added a comment.


  If we're rejecting tlh as a monolingual text code (and not as a lexeme 
language code), would someone like to do the honors and purge the Lexeme: 
namespace of Klingon lexemes?

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To: Mahir256
Cc: Mahir256, Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, Manuel, Nikki, Mbch331, Amire80, Shisma, 
Esc3300, jhsoby, Ameisenigel, Aklapper, Loominade, 786, Suran38, Biggs657, 
Invadibot, Lalamarie69, maantietaja, Juan90264, Alter-paule, Beast1978, Un1tY, 
Akuckartz, Hook696, Kent7301, joker88john, CucyNoiD, Nandana, Gaboe420, 
Giuliamocci, Cpaulf30, Lahi, Gq86, Af420, Bsandipan, GoranSMilovanovic, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T286239: Make tlh-latn and tlh-piqd a valid monolingual string language

[Manuel]

Manuel moved this task from Peer Review to Done on the Wikidata-Campsite (Team 
A Hearth ) board.
Manuel closed this task as "Declined".
Manuel added a comment.


  Originally, I thought that we could implement the monolingual string without 
automatically endorsing its use. I do not believe this anymore. This is why I 
am declining this task for now. I am happy to consider this again in case of 
more legal clarity and a broader community consensus 
 are reached.
  
  Thank you all again for your input!
  
  //mIvDaq pogh cha'//

TASK DETAIL
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To: Manuel
Cc: Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, Manuel, Nikki, Mbch331, Amire80, Shisma, Esc3300, 
jhsoby, Ameisenigel, Aklapper, Loominade, 786, Suran38, Biggs657, Invadibot, 
Lalamarie69, maantietaja, Juan90264, Alter-paule, Beast1978, Un1tY, Akuckartz, 
Hook696, Kent7301, joker88john, CucyNoiD, Nandana, Gaboe420, Giuliamocci, 
Cpaulf30, Lahi, Gq86, Af420, Bsandipan, GoranSMilovanovic, Mahir256, QZanden, 
LawExplorer, Lewizho99, Maathavan, _jensen, rosalieper, Scott_WUaS, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T286239: Make tlh-latn and tlh-piqd a valid monolingual string language

[Amire80]

Amire80 added a comment.


  This language code is valid, but Klingon has a history of copyright 
litigation, so I'd say this should also have some legal advice, which I cannot 
provide.

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To: Amire80
Cc: Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, Manuel, Nikki, Mbch331, Amire80, Shisma, Esc3300, 
jhsoby, Ameisenigel, Aklapper, Loominade, 786, Suran38, Biggs657, Invadibot, 
Lalamarie69, maantietaja, Juan90264, Alter-paule, Beast1978, Un1tY, Akuckartz, 
Hook696, Kent7301, joker88john, CucyNoiD, Nandana, Gaboe420, Giuliamocci, 
Cpaulf30, Lahi, Gq86, Af420, Bsandipan, GoranSMilovanovic, Mahir256, QZanden, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T286239: Make tlh-latn and tlh-piqd a valid monolingual string language

[Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE]

Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE added a comment.


  My understanding was that we require LangCom approval for new language codes, 
and I don’t see a LangCom approval in this task. (My interpretation of the 
passage @Ameisenigel quoted is that LangCom can use less strict criteria for 
approving monolingual language codes than other language codes, not that we 
bypass them altogether.)

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To: Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE
Cc: Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, Manuel, Nikki, Mbch331, Amire80, Shisma, Esc3300, 
jhsoby, Ameisenigel, Aklapper, Loominade, 786, Suran38, Biggs657, Invadibot, 
Lalamarie69, maantietaja, Juan90264, Alter-paule, Beast1978, Un1tY, Akuckartz, 
Hook696, Kent7301, joker88john, CucyNoiD, Nandana, Gaboe420, Giuliamocci, 
Cpaulf30, Lahi, Gq86, Af420, Bsandipan, GoranSMilovanovic, Mahir256, QZanden, 
LawExplorer, Lewizho99, Maathavan, _jensen, rosalieper, Scott_WUaS, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T286239: Make tlh-latn and tlh-piqd a valid monolingual string language

[Manuel]

Manuel added a comment.


  Hi @Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE I already made the decision and moved the task to 
our iteration board. Can you please elaborate on your reasons to recommend 
against it?

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To: Manuel
Cc: Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, Manuel, Nikki, Mbch331, Amire80, Shisma, Esc3300, 
jhsoby, Ameisenigel, Aklapper, Loominade, 786, Suran38, Biggs657, Invadibot, 
Lalamarie69, maantietaja, Juan90264, Alter-paule, Beast1978, Un1tY, Akuckartz, 
Hook696, Kent7301, joker88john, CucyNoiD, Nandana, Gaboe420, Giuliamocci, 
Cpaulf30, Lahi, Gq86, Af420, Bsandipan, GoranSMilovanovic, Mahir256, QZanden, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T286239: Make tlh-latn and tlh-piqd a valid monolingual string language

[Ameisenigel]

Ameisenigel added a comment.


  Well, [[:d:Help:Monolingual text languages]] says:
  
  ''A language code does not have to fulfill the requirements of the language 
proposal policy for new Wikis.''
  
  ''In general, if you need a language code to correctly model real-world data, 
it should be accepted as long as it's a valid language code.''
  
  I do not see any reason not to add tlh.

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To: Ameisenigel
Cc: Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, Manuel, Nikki, Mbch331, Amire80, Shisma, Esc3300, 
jhsoby, Ameisenigel, Aklapper, Loominade, 786, Suran38, Biggs657, Invadibot, 
Lalamarie69, maantietaja, Juan90264, Alter-paule, Beast1978, Un1tY, Akuckartz, 
Hook696, Kent7301, joker88john, CucyNoiD, Nandana, Gaboe420, Giuliamocci, 
Cpaulf30, Lahi, Gq86, Af420, Bsandipan, GoranSMilovanovic, Mahir256, QZanden, 
LawExplorer, Lewizho99, Maathavan, _jensen, rosalieper, Scott_WUaS, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T286239: Make tlh-latn and tlh-piqd a valid monolingual string language

[Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE]

Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE added a comment.


  In T286239#7434302 , 
@Ameisenigel wrote:
  
  > I think we should proceed now. There is no further feedback by langcom 
since 3 months.
  
  “No further feedback” doesn’t equal approval, though. To me this task doesn’t 
look like it’s okay to proceed with adding this to Wikidata.

TASK DETAIL
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To: Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE
Cc: Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, Manuel, Nikki, Mbch331, Amire80, Shisma, Esc3300, 
jhsoby, Ameisenigel, Aklapper, Loominade, 786, Suran38, Biggs657, Invadibot, 
Lalamarie69, maantietaja, Juan90264, Alter-paule, Beast1978, Un1tY, Akuckartz, 
Hook696, Kent7301, joker88john, CucyNoiD, Nandana, Gaboe420, Giuliamocci, 
Cpaulf30, Lahi, Gq86, Af420, Bsandipan, GoranSMilovanovic, Mahir256, QZanden, 
LawExplorer, Lewizho99, Maathavan, _jensen, rosalieper, Scott_WUaS, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T286239: Make tlh-latn and tlh-piqd a valid monolingual string language

[Manuel]

Manuel edited projects, added Wikidata-Campsite (Team A Hearth ); removed 
Wikidata-Campsite (Wikidata-Campsite-Iteration-∞ (On Hold)).
Manuel added a comment.


  Thank you @Amire80 and @Nikki for your input! I am also reluctant about this, 
but creating the code will at least make the existing practice more 
transparent. It should not be seen as an endorsement in itself.

TASK DETAIL
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To: Manuel
Cc: Manuel, Nikki, Mbch331, Amire80, Shisma, Esc3300, jhsoby, Ameisenigel, 
Aklapper, Loominade, 786, Suran38, Biggs657, Invadibot, Lalamarie69, 
maantietaja, Juan90264, Alter-paule, Beast1978, Un1tY, Akuckartz, Hook696, 
Kent7301, joker88john, CucyNoiD, Nandana, Gaboe420, Giuliamocci, Cpaulf30, 
Lahi, Gq86, Af420, Bsandipan, GoranSMilovanovic, Mahir256, QZanden, 
LawExplorer, Lewizho99, Maathavan, _jensen, rosalieper, Scott_WUaS, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T286239: Make tlh-latn and tlh-piqd a valid monolingual string language

[Mbch331]

Mbch331 added a project: Wikidata-Campsite (Wikidata-Campsite-Iteration-∞ (On 
Hold)).

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To: Mbch331
Cc: Nikki, Mbch331, Amire80, Shisma, Esc3300, jhsoby, Ameisenigel, Aklapper, 
Loominade, 786, Suran38, Biggs657, Invadibot, Lalamarie69, maantietaja, 
Juan90264, Alter-paule, Beast1978, Un1tY, Akuckartz, Hook696, Iflorez, 
Kent7301, alaa_wmde, joker88john, CucyNoiD, Nandana, Gaboe420, Giuliamocci, 
Cpaulf30, Lahi, Gq86, Af420, Bsandipan, GoranSMilovanovic, Mahir256, QZanden, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T286239: Make tlh-latn and tlh-piqd a valid monolingual string language

[ReleaseTaggerBot]

ReleaseTaggerBot added a project: MW-1.38-notes (1.38.0-wmf.7; 2021-11-02).

TASK DETAIL
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To: ReleaseTaggerBot
Cc: Nikki, Mbch331, Amire80, Shisma, Esc3300, jhsoby, Ameisenigel, Aklapper, 
Loominade, Suran38, Biggs657, Invadibot, Lalamarie69, maantietaja, Juan90264, 
Alter-paule, Beast1978, Un1tY, Akuckartz, Hook696, Kent7301, joker88john, 
CucyNoiD, Nandana, Gaboe420, Giuliamocci, Cpaulf30, Lahi, Gq86, Af420, 
Bsandipan, GoranSMilovanovic, Mahir256, QZanden, LawExplorer, Lewizho99, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T286239: Make tlh-latn and tlh-piqd a valid monolingual string language

[gerritbot]

gerritbot added a comment.


  Change 734718 **merged** by jenkins-bot:
  
  [mediawiki/extensions/cldr@master] Add language codes mcn and tlh-latn / 
tlh-piqd
  
  https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/734718

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To: gerritbot
Cc: Nikki, Mbch331, Amire80, Shisma, Esc3300, jhsoby, Ameisenigel, Aklapper, 
Loominade, Suran38, Biggs657, Invadibot, Lalamarie69, maantietaja, Juan90264, 
Alter-paule, Beast1978, Un1tY, Akuckartz, Hook696, Kent7301, joker88john, 
CucyNoiD, Nandana, Gaboe420, Giuliamocci, Cpaulf30, Lahi, Gq86, Af420, 
Bsandipan, GoranSMilovanovic, Mahir256, QZanden, LawExplorer, Lewizho99, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T286239: Make tlh-latn and tlh-piqd a valid monolingual string language

[gerritbot]

gerritbot added a comment.


  Change 734718 had a related patch set uploaded (by Mbch331; author: Mbch331):
  
  [mediawiki/extensions/cldr@master] Add language codes mcn and tlh-latn / 
tlh-piqd
  
  https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/734718

TASK DETAIL
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To: gerritbot
Cc: Nikki, Mbch331, Amire80, Shisma, Esc3300, jhsoby, Ameisenigel, Aklapper, 
Loominade, Suran38, Biggs657, Invadibot, Lalamarie69, maantietaja, Juan90264, 
Alter-paule, Beast1978, Un1tY, Akuckartz, Hook696, Kent7301, joker88john, 
CucyNoiD, Nandana, Gaboe420, Giuliamocci, Cpaulf30, Lahi, Gq86, Af420, 
Bsandipan, GoranSMilovanovic, Mahir256, QZanden, LawExplorer, Lewizho99, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T286239: Make tlh-latn and tlh-piqd a valid monolingual string language

[gerritbot]

gerritbot added a project: Patch-For-Review.

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To: gerritbot
Cc: Nikki, Mbch331, Amire80, Shisma, Esc3300, jhsoby, Ameisenigel, Aklapper, 
Loominade, Suran38, Biggs657, Invadibot, Lalamarie69, maantietaja, Juan90264, 
Alter-paule, Beast1978, Un1tY, Akuckartz, Hook696, Kent7301, joker88john, 
CucyNoiD, Nandana, Gaboe420, Giuliamocci, Cpaulf30, Lahi, Gq86, Af420, 
Bsandipan, GoranSMilovanovic, Mahir256, QZanden, LawExplorer, Lewizho99, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T286239: Make tlh-latn and tlh-piqd a valid monolingual string language

[gerritbot]

gerritbot added a comment.


  Change 734715 had a related patch set uploaded (by Mbch331; author: Mbch331):
  
  [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase@master] Add klingon for monolingual codes
  
  https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/734715

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To: gerritbot
Cc: Nikki, Mbch331, Amire80, Shisma, Esc3300, jhsoby, Ameisenigel, Aklapper, 
Loominade, Invadibot, maantietaja, Akuckartz, Nandana, Lahi, Gq86, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T286239: Make tlh-latn and tlh-piqd a valid monolingual string language

[Ameisenigel]

Ameisenigel added a comment.


  I think we should proceed now. There is no further feedback by langcom since 
3 months.

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Loominade, Invadibot, maantietaja, Akuckartz, Nandana, Lahi, Gq86, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T286239: Make tlh-latn and tlh-piqd a valid monolingual string language

[Nikki]

Nikki added a comment.


  In T286239#7219414 , 
@Amire80 wrote:
  
  > Sigh. I have the same reluctance about it as about the other thing: it may 
have copyright implications. I am not a lawyer and I cannot say anything about 
this.
  
  The data will be there whether the code is added or not. If it's not 
approved, people will continue lumping it under `mis` along with all the other 
languages whose codes aren't accepted.
  
  Here's a bunch of examples:
  https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q2012993
  https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1027770
  https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q11352202
  https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q56192539
  https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q262983
  https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1243582
  https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q2936533
  
  As for copyright implications, I don't think enabling the code will introduce 
any issues which aren't already there. Wikidata is already storing Klingon text 
(as you can see above), just without a proper language code. There are 20 
Wiktionaries  with entries in Klingon. 
The English Wiktionary  
has over 2000 entries. Some Wiktionaries have entries over 15 years old 
.

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To: Nikki
Cc: Nikki, Mbch331, Amire80, Shisma, Esc3300, jhsoby, Ameisenigel, Aklapper, 
Loominade, Invadibot, maantietaja, Akuckartz, Nandana, Lahi, Gq86, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T286239: Make tlh-latn and tlh-piqd a valid monolingual string language

[Ameisenigel]

Ameisenigel added a comment.


  @jhsoby Are there any news from langcom about this?

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Cc: Mbch331, Amire80, Shisma, Esc3300, jhsoby, Ameisenigel, Aklapper, 
Loominade, Invadibot, maantietaja, Akuckartz, Nandana, Lahi, Gq86, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T286239: Make tlh-latn and tlh-piqd a valid monolingual string language

[Amire80]

Amire80 added a comment.


  Sigh. I have the same reluctance about it as about the other thing: it may 
have copyright implications. I am not a lawyer and I cannot say anything about 
this.

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To: Amire80
Cc: Mbch331, Amire80, Shisma, Esc3300, jhsoby, Ameisenigel, Aklapper, 
Loominade, Invadibot, maantietaja, Akuckartz, Nandana, Lahi, Gq86, 
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Scott_WUaS, Nikki, Wikidata-bugs, aude
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T286239: Make tlh-latn and tlh-piqd a valid monolingual string language

[Mbch331]

Mbch331 added subscribers: Amire80, Mbch331.
Mbch331 added a comment.


  @Amire80 What's your view on this?

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To: Mbch331
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Loominade, Invadibot, maantietaja, Akuckartz, Nandana, Lahi, Gq86, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T286239: Make tlh-latn and tlh-piqd a valid monolingual string language

[Esc3300]

Esc3300 added subscribers: jhsoby, Esc3300.
Esc3300 added a comment.


  @jhsoby what's your langcom view on this?

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To: Esc3300
Cc: Esc3300, jhsoby, Ameisenigel, Aklapper, Loominade, Invadibot, maantietaja, 
Akuckartz, Nandana, Lahi, Gq86, GoranSMilovanovic, Mahir256, QZanden, 
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Mbch331
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T286239: Make tlh-latn and tlh-piqd a valid monolingual string language

[Mahir256]

Mahir256 added projects: Language codes, Wikidata.

TASK DETAIL
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To: Mahir256
Cc: Aklapper, Loominade, Invadibot, maantietaja, Akuckartz, Nandana, Lahi, 
Gq86, GoranSMilovanovic, Mahir256, QZanden, LawExplorer, _jensen, rosalieper, 
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