Re: [Wikidata-l] Data templates

2015-04-19 Thread Antoine Isaac


On 4/18/15 5:48 PM, Ricordisamoa wrote:

Il 11/04/2015 13:29, Antoine Isaac ha scritto:

Hi,

Is the 'template' word so bad? Paraphrasing Daniel's definition of the 
MediaWiki template, one could see a 'WikiData template' as
a set of of properties that can be re-used, e.g. to make create statements 
about a certain class. (the 'parameter' bit could be understood as adding or 
removing properties from the templates, e.g. using twice a property or adding a 
new one when it's needed).

What we're after seems to exist already, described as 'item structure':
http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Visual_arts/Item_structure
Or 'list of properties':
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:List_of_properties/Works

'schema convention' matches the idea, but the wording may be too abstract. I 
come from a community that calls such things 'description set profiles'; such 
expressions have a hard time being adopted in less technical communities...


About the text values. A big +1 to Daniel at not trying to represent 
semi-structured text, which is meant to piggyback structured data in legacy 
systems that can't handle it. The matter is rather the availability in Wikidata 
of text-like summaries like the dbpedia-owl:abstract at 
http://dbpedia.org/page/Castle . Having things like this together with the 
Wikidata data would be great for data-reusers like us, instead of having to 
fetch it from elsewhere!


There's TextExtracts https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:TextExtracts for that: example 
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/api.php?action=queryprop=extractsexsentences=1explaintext=1titles=Castle




Thanks!
Unfortunately this is not in the data itself. One has to know that there is an 
API, and then call it.

Actually there seems to be such similar 'description' in the data at wikidata:
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q23413 says type of fortified structure built in 
Europe and the Middle East during the Middle Ages by nobility
It matches partly the rdfs:comment at http://dbpedia.org/page/Castle and the 
output of the TextExtract.
It's a bit mysterious why it's not been exactly entered as on the Wikipedia 
page (and thus DBpedia) but well, I guess it meets the original question: while 
the Wikidata page doesn't say it's a statement, it is accessible through the 
API and the SPARQL endpoint(s).

Best,

Antoine

 


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Re: [Wikidata-l] Data templates

2015-04-18 Thread Ricordisamoa

Il 11/04/2015 13:29, Antoine Isaac ha scritto:

Hi,

Is the 'template' word so bad? Paraphrasing Daniel's definition of the 
MediaWiki template, one could see a 'WikiData template' as
a set of of properties that can be re-used, e.g. to make create 
statements about a certain class. (the 'parameter' bit could be 
understood as adding or removing properties from the templates, e.g. 
using twice a property or adding a new one when it's needed).


What we're after seems to exist already, described as 'item structure':
http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Visual_arts/Item_structure 


Or 'list of properties':
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:List_of_properties/Works

'schema convention' matches the idea, but the wording may be too 
abstract. I come from a community that calls such things 'description 
set profiles'; such expressions have a hard time being adopted in less 
technical communities...



About the text values. A big +1 to Daniel at not trying to represent 
semi-structured text, which is meant to piggyback structured data in 
legacy systems that can't handle it. The matter is rather the 
availability in Wikidata of text-like summaries like the 
dbpedia-owl:abstract at http://dbpedia.org/page/Castle . Having things 
like this together with the Wikidata data would be great for 
data-reusers like us, instead of having to fetch it from elsewhere!


There's TextExtracts 
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:TextExtracts for that: 
example 
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/api.php?action=queryprop=extractsexsentences=1explaintext=1titles=Castle




Antoine  ---
Antoine Isaac
RD Manager, Europeana.eu
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Re: [Wikidata-l] Data templates

2015-04-11 Thread Antoine Isaac

Hi,

Is the 'template' word so bad? Paraphrasing Daniel's definition of the 
MediaWiki template, one could see a 'WikiData template' as
a set of of properties that can be re-used, e.g. to make create statements 
about a certain class. (the 'parameter' bit could be understood as adding or 
removing properties from the templates, e.g. using twice a property or adding a 
new one when it's needed).

What we're after seems to exist already, described as 'item structure':
http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Visual_arts/Item_structure
Or 'list of properties':
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:List_of_properties/Works

'schema convention' matches the idea, but the wording may be too abstract. I 
come from a community that calls such things 'description set profiles'; such 
expressions have a hard time being adopted in less technical communities...


About the text values. A big +1 to Daniel at not trying to represent 
semi-structured text, which is meant to piggyback structured data in legacy 
systems that can't handle it. The matter is rather the availability in Wikidata 
of text-like summaries like the dbpedia-owl:abstract at 
http://dbpedia.org/page/Castle . Having things like this together with the 
Wikidata data would be great for data-reusers like us, instead of having to 
fetch it from elsewhere!

Antoine  
---

Antoine Isaac
RD Manager, Europeana.eu

On 4/7/15 3:21 PM, Valentine Charles wrote:

Hello,

Yes I might not use the right term here especially if you use it already in a 
different context. What I mean is that it would be good to have list of 
properties that can be used for a given thing. For instance if you want to 
describe a painting here the list of properties you can use.
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_sum_of_all_paintings points 
to a page listing some properties that can be used for painting but not all of 
them.

Best,
Valentine

2015-04-07 15:15 GMT+02:00 Daniel Kinzler daniel.kinz...@wikimedia.de 
mailto:daniel.kinz...@wikimedia.de:


I'm confused by your use of the term template here. In the context of
MediaWiki, template refers to a bit of wikitext that can be parametrized 
and
re-used, e.g. to make info-boxes.

If I understand correctly, what you mean is a kind of schema saying which
properties can and should be present on items of which type. The Wikibase
software has no concept of such schemas, on Wikidata such schemas are 
defined
and enforced by convention only.

For the sake of clarity, I suggest to use the term schema convention for 
this,
to avoid confusion with wikitext templates.

Am 07.04.2015 um 13:12 schrieb Valentine Charles:
 Hello,

 I wanted to get an overview of all the properties used boy the instance 
Painting
 (https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q3305213) for further mapping with the 
Europeana
 Data Model.
 My initial thought that I would find a representative list
 
athttp://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Visual_arts/Item_structure
 but in fact I have found much more properties used in association with 
painting.
 So I was wondering whether it would be a good idea to update the template
 mentioned above with the additional properties.
 I think it would be really interesting for GLAMs to have access to to
 representative templates listing all the properties used for a given type 
of
 objects. It would help them to understand Wikidata and to compare it with 
their
 own data. I think it would also help mappings activities. I on behalf of
 Europeana would be happy to help in this task and also facilitate the
 discussions with GLAMs around Wikidata.

 What do you think?

 Best wishes,
 Valentine

 2015-04-04 23:45 GMT+02:00 Stas Malyshev smalys...@wikimedia.org 
mailto:smalys...@wikimedia.org
  mailto:smalys...@wikimedia.org mailto:smalys...@wikimedia.org:

 Hi!

  For things that actually *are* free text, and not terribly long, a 
monolongual
  (or, in the future, multilingual) text property could be used. 
quote already
  exists, abstract could be added, pending community discussion. 
Length
  limitations can be adjusted if need be.

 Maybe if the need of bigger texts arises we can have separate field
 type? Right now the storage model is not very good for storing texts 
of
 non-negligible sizes, especially multilingual ones (x800 languages).
 OTOH, we have a type that allows us to use multimedia by integrating
 with Commons. So maybe the same idea with using some other wiki -
 quotes? sources? for bigger text snippets would work too? Just
 brainstorming here :)

  What I was warning against is continuing the misuse of text fields 
for
  semi-structured or even fully structured data that I have often 
seen in GLAM
  meta-data. That kind of thing should 

Re: [Wikidata-l] Data templates

2015-04-11 Thread Federico Leva (Nemo)

Valentine Charles, 07/04/2015 15:21:

What I mean is that it would be good to have list of properties that can
be used for a given thing.


Autocompletion often guesses well, but you can set a non-mandatory 
constraint: 
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Category:Properties_with_constraints
Really, in this thread I still have no idea what problem you're trying 
to solve in the first place. :) Could you make a specific example and 
what you're finding hard to do?


Nemo

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Re: [Wikidata-l] Data templates

2015-04-08 Thread Ricordisamoa

Il 04/04/2015 23:45, Stas Malyshev ha scritto:

Hi!


For things that actually *are* free text, and not terribly long, a monolongual
(or, in the future, multilingual) text property could be used. quote already
exists, abstract could be added, pending community discussion. Length
limitations can be adjusted if need be.

Maybe if the need of bigger texts arises we can have separate field
type? Right now the storage model is not very good for storing texts of
non-negligible sizes, especially multilingual ones (x800 languages).
OTOH, we have a type that allows us to use multimedia by integrating
with Commons. So maybe the same idea with using some other wiki -
quotes? sources? for bigger text snippets would work too? Just
brainstorming here :)


spamStructured Wikiquote 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Structured_Wikiquote/spam





What I was warning against is continuing the misuse of text fields for
semi-structured or even fully structured data that I have often seen in GLAM
meta-data. That kind of thing should not be copied to Wikidata.

Right. I think it may be useful here to understand which kinds of text
we're talking about which can't be structured but are big enough to
cause concern. I.e. if it's quotes - we already have wikiquote, right? Etc.



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Re: [Wikidata-l] Data templates

2015-04-07 Thread Valentine Charles
Hello,

I wanted to get an overview of all the properties used boy the instance
Painting (https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q3305213) for further mapping with
the Europeana Data Model.
My initial thought that I would find a representative list at
http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Visual_arts/Item_structure
but in fact I have found much more properties used in association with
painting. So I was wondering whether it would be a good idea to update the
template mentioned above with the additional properties.
I think it would be really interesting for GLAMs to have access to to
representative templates listing all the properties used for a given type
of objects. It would help them to understand Wikidata and to compare it
with their own data. I think it would also help mappings activities. I on
behalf of Europeana would be happy to help in this task and also facilitate
the discussions with GLAMs around Wikidata.

What do you think?

Best wishes,
Valentine

2015-04-04 23:45 GMT+02:00 Stas Malyshev smalys...@wikimedia.org:

 Hi!

  For things that actually *are* free text, and not terribly long, a
 monolongual
  (or, in the future, multilingual) text property could be used. quote
 already
  exists, abstract could be added, pending community discussion. Length
  limitations can be adjusted if need be.

 Maybe if the need of bigger texts arises we can have separate field
 type? Right now the storage model is not very good for storing texts of
 non-negligible sizes, especially multilingual ones (x800 languages).
 OTOH, we have a type that allows us to use multimedia by integrating
 with Commons. So maybe the same idea with using some other wiki -
 quotes? sources? for bigger text snippets would work too? Just
 brainstorming here :)

  What I was warning against is continuing the misuse of text fields for
  semi-structured or even fully structured data that I have often seen in
 GLAM
  meta-data. That kind of thing should not be copied to Wikidata.

 Right. I think it may be useful here to understand which kinds of text
 we're talking about which can't be structured but are big enough to
 cause concern. I.e. if it's quotes - we already have wikiquote, right? Etc.

 --
 Stas Malyshev
 smalys...@wikimedia.org

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Re: [Wikidata-l] Data templates

2015-04-07 Thread Jane Darnell
For paintings you can better look here:
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_sum_of_all_paintings

On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 1:12 PM, Valentine Charles valentine...@gmail.com
wrote:

 Hello,

 I wanted to get an overview of all the properties used boy the instance
 Painting (https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q3305213) for further mapping
 with the Europeana Data Model.
 My initial thought that I would find a representative list at
 http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Visual_arts/Item_structure
 but in fact I have found much more properties used in association with
 painting. So I was wondering whether it would be a good idea to update the
 template mentioned above with the additional properties.
 I think it would be really interesting for GLAMs to have access to to
 representative templates listing all the properties used for a given type
 of objects. It would help them to understand Wikidata and to compare it
 with their own data. I think it would also help mappings activities. I on
 behalf of Europeana would be happy to help in this task and also facilitate
 the discussions with GLAMs around Wikidata.

 What do you think?

 Best wishes,
 Valentine

 2015-04-04 23:45 GMT+02:00 Stas Malyshev smalys...@wikimedia.org:

 Hi!

  For things that actually *are* free text, and not terribly long, a
 monolongual
  (or, in the future, multilingual) text property could be used. quote
 already
  exists, abstract could be added, pending community discussion. Length
  limitations can be adjusted if need be.

 Maybe if the need of bigger texts arises we can have separate field
 type? Right now the storage model is not very good for storing texts of
 non-negligible sizes, especially multilingual ones (x800 languages).
 OTOH, we have a type that allows us to use multimedia by integrating
 with Commons. So maybe the same idea with using some other wiki -
 quotes? sources? for bigger text snippets would work too? Just
 brainstorming here :)

  What I was warning against is continuing the misuse of text fields for
  semi-structured or even fully structured data that I have often seen in
 GLAM
  meta-data. That kind of thing should not be copied to Wikidata.

 Right. I think it may be useful here to understand which kinds of text
 we're talking about which can't be structured but are big enough to
 cause concern. I.e. if it's quotes - we already have wikiquote, right?
 Etc.

 --
 Stas Malyshev
 smalys...@wikimedia.org

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Re: [Wikidata-l] Data templates

2015-04-07 Thread Daniel Kinzler

I'm confused by your use of the term template here. In the context of
MediaWiki, template refers to a bit of wikitext that can be parametrized and
re-used, e.g. to make info-boxes.

If I understand correctly, what you mean is a kind of schema saying which
properties can and should be present on items of which type. The Wikibase
software has no concept of such schemas, on Wikidata such schemas are defined
and enforced by convention only.

For the sake of clarity, I suggest to use the term schema convention for this,
to avoid confusion with wikitext templates.

Am 07.04.2015 um 13:12 schrieb Valentine Charles:
 Hello, 
 
 I wanted to get an overview of all the properties used boy the instance 
 Painting
 (https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q3305213) for further mapping with the 
 Europeana
 Data Model. 
 My initial thought that I would find a representative list
 at 
 http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Visual_arts/Item_structure
 but in fact I have found much more properties used in association with 
 painting.
 So I was wondering whether it would be a good idea to update the template
 mentioned above with the additional properties.
 I think it would be really interesting for GLAMs to have access to to
 representative templates listing all the properties used for a given type of
 objects. It would help them to understand Wikidata and to compare it with 
 their
 own data. I think it would also help mappings activities. I on behalf of
 Europeana would be happy to help in this task and also facilitate the
 discussions with GLAMs around Wikidata. 
 
 What do you think? 
 
 Best wishes, 
 Valentine 
 
 2015-04-04 23:45 GMT+02:00 Stas Malyshev smalys...@wikimedia.org
 mailto:smalys...@wikimedia.org:
 
 Hi!
 
  For things that actually *are* free text, and not terribly long, a 
 monolongual
  (or, in the future, multilingual) text property could be used. quote 
 already
  exists, abstract could be added, pending community discussion. Length
  limitations can be adjusted if need be.
 
 Maybe if the need of bigger texts arises we can have separate field
 type? Right now the storage model is not very good for storing texts of
 non-negligible sizes, especially multilingual ones (x800 languages).
 OTOH, we have a type that allows us to use multimedia by integrating
 with Commons. So maybe the same idea with using some other wiki -
 quotes? sources? for bigger text snippets would work too? Just
 brainstorming here :)
 
  What I was warning against is continuing the misuse of text fields for
  semi-structured or even fully structured data that I have often seen in 
 GLAM
  meta-data. That kind of thing should not be copied to Wikidata.
 
 Right. I think it may be useful here to understand which kinds of text
 we're talking about which can't be structured but are big enough to
 cause concern. I.e. if it's quotes - we already have wikiquote, right? 
 Etc.
 
 --
 Stas Malyshev
 smalys...@wikimedia.org mailto:smalys...@wikimedia.org
 
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-- 
Daniel Kinzler
Senior Software Developer

Wikimedia Deutschland
Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.

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Re: [Wikidata-l] Data templates

2015-04-04 Thread Jane Darnell
The more I think about this issue, the more I think we need a separate
animal altogether that sits between Wikidata and Wikipedia (or alongside it
somehow) and that is a quick-ref simple mobile version that acts as a
go-between to image data on Commons (or any other WM project). Right now
Wikipedia is still the main gateway for all related projects even though
you can link those WM projects as extra sitelinks on the Wikidata item.
We have seen with the problems regarding the label for the mobile interface
that the current label falls short of what it needs to do, and the
Wikipedia first sentence or paragraph is often not a viable option (too
chatty)

I am very satisified with all of the UI changes that Wikidata has
implemented so far, but I don't think we should make Wikidata the
definitive UI for mobile traffic, or for external websites. As more and
more websites (such as GLAM's) link out to Wikipedia, we should offer them
a way to tap into the wealth of info on Wikidata, especially since Wikidata
is all about long-tail subjects at a higher granularity of precision, which
is the same segment of information dissemination where most GLAMs reside.

It could be a Reasonator on steroids

On Wed, Apr 1, 2015 at 11:51 PM, Andrew Gray andrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk
wrote:

 Hi Valentine,

 The long, chatty, free-text descriptive element of Wikidata is really
 Wikipedia ;-)

 There is a small free-text field in Wikidata for each item (the
 description, one per language) but it's intended for a short
 identifying/disambiguating note: 1887 self-portrait by XYZ; Danish
 artist and historian, 1912-1974, etc.

 Dimensions are, I believe, being worked on.

 Andrew.

 On 1 April 2015 at 08:20, Valentine Charles valentine...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  Dear all,
 
  Thank you all for your answers. I will have a look to the different
 projects
  you have mentioned in your emails.
  In the meantime I have spent a bit more time exploring Wikidata for
  paintings as one of our project currently focuses on Art and comparing it
  with the Europeana Data Model in terms of properties. I have noticed the
  absence of some properties and I would be curious whether it is just an
  overlook or whether there is a real intention behind the omission:
 
  -Cultural Heritage data have most of the time a description property
 where
  you will find lot of relevant free text information. The structured
 property
  but inside you will find mostly free- text. I couldn't find a similar
  property in Wikidata but there is something similar in Dbpedia. Is it
  something you are planning to introduce or have you made the decision to
  exclude any free-text infromation from Wikidata for now.
 
  -While I was looking for painting in Wikidata I also noticed the absence
 of
  information related to the size/dimension of the Artwork. The
 information is
  most of the time present in Cultural Heritage data. Is it something
 Wikidata
  is interested in or has it been omitted intentionally?
 
  -Then the last question is about values in different languages for a
 given
  property. How do you indicate the language in Wikidata? Are you using a
  xml:lang attribute or something similar?
 
  Thank you very much for your help
 
  Best,
 
  Valentine
 
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Re: [Wikidata-l] Data templates

2015-04-04 Thread Valentine Charles
Hello,

Coming back on my previous email, I do indeed understand that Wikidata
wants structured data as much as possible. But you might have free-text
information that might not fit in a given property or even have meaning
only as a free -text description (abstract, quotes..).GLAM's are for
instance very keen on using DBpedia because of some long free-text
descriptions that are more readable and friendly than dry metadata for
users applications. I guess GLAMs will continue to use DBpedia for this
purpose if Wikidata doesn't offer it.

Best,
Valentine

2015-04-01 23:51 GMT+02:00 Andrew Gray andrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk:

 Hi Valentine,

 The long, chatty, free-text descriptive element of Wikidata is really
 Wikipedia ;-)

 There is a small free-text field in Wikidata for each item (the
 description, one per language) but it's intended for a short
 identifying/disambiguating note: 1887 self-portrait by XYZ; Danish
 artist and historian, 1912-1974, etc.

 Dimensions are, I believe, being worked on.

 Andrew.

 On 1 April 2015 at 08:20, Valentine Charles valentine...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  Dear all,
 
  Thank you all for your answers. I will have a look to the different
 projects
  you have mentioned in your emails.
  In the meantime I have spent a bit more time exploring Wikidata for
  paintings as one of our project currently focuses on Art and comparing it
  with the Europeana Data Model in terms of properties. I have noticed the
  absence of some properties and I would be curious whether it is just an
  overlook or whether there is a real intention behind the omission:
 
  -Cultural Heritage data have most of the time a description property
 where
  you will find lot of relevant free text information. The structured
 property
  but inside you will find mostly free- text. I couldn't find a similar
  property in Wikidata but there is something similar in Dbpedia. Is it
  something you are planning to introduce or have you made the decision to
  exclude any free-text infromation from Wikidata for now.
 
  -While I was looking for painting in Wikidata I also noticed the absence
 of
  information related to the size/dimension of the Artwork. The
 information is
  most of the time present in Cultural Heritage data. Is it something
 Wikidata
  is interested in or has it been omitted intentionally?
 
  -Then the last question is about values in different languages for a
 given
  property. How do you indicate the language in Wikidata? Are you using a
  xml:lang attribute or something similar?
 
  Thank you very much for your help
 
  Best,
 
  Valentine
 
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   andrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk

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Re: [Wikidata-l] Data templates

2015-04-04 Thread Daniel Kinzler
For things that actually *are* free text, and not terribly long, a monolongual
(or, in the future, multilingual) text property could be used. quote already
exists, abstract could be added, pending community discussion. Length
limitations can be adjusted if need be.

What I was warning against is continuing the misuse of text fields for
semi-structured or even fully structured data that I have often seen in GLAM
meta-data. That kind of thing should not be copied to Wikidata.

Am 04.04.2015 um 14:41 schrieb Valentine Charles:
 Hello, 
 
 Coming back on my previous email, I do indeed understand that Wikidata wants
 structured data as much as possible. But you might have free-text information
 that might not fit in a given property or even have meaning only as a free 
 -text
 description (abstract, quotes..).GLAM's are for instance very keen on using
 DBpedia because of some long free-text descriptions that are more readable and
 friendly than dry metadata for users applications. I guess GLAMs will 
 continue
 to use DBpedia for this purpose if Wikidata doesn't offer it. 



-- 
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Senior Software Developer

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Re: [Wikidata-l] Data templates

2015-04-04 Thread Joe Filceolaire
I think there is a case for including this structured data disguised as
text but it should go in the reference for a statement
On 4 Apr 2015 18:07, Daniel Kinzler daniel.kinz...@wikimedia.de wrote:

 For things that actually *are* free text, and not terribly long, a
 monolongual
 (or, in the future, multilingual) text property could be used. quote
 already
 exists, abstract could be added, pending community discussion. Length
 limitations can be adjusted if need be.

 What I was warning against is continuing the misuse of text fields for
 semi-structured or even fully structured data that I have often seen in
 GLAM
 meta-data. That kind of thing should not be copied to Wikidata.

 Am 04.04.2015 um 14:41 schrieb Valentine Charles:
  Hello,
 
  Coming back on my previous email, I do indeed understand that Wikidata
 wants
  structured data as much as possible. But you might have free-text
 information
  that might not fit in a given property or even have meaning only as a
 free -text
  description (abstract, quotes..).GLAM's are for instance very keen on
 using
  DBpedia because of some long free-text descriptions that are more
 readable and
  friendly than dry metadata for users applications. I guess GLAMs will
 continue
  to use DBpedia for this purpose if Wikidata doesn't offer it.



 --
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 Senior Software Developer

 Wikimedia Deutschland
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Re: [Wikidata-l] Data templates

2015-04-04 Thread Ricordisamoa

Il 02/04/2015 13:51, Daniel Kinzler ha scritto:

Am 02.04.2015 um 09:03 schrieb Valentine Charles:

Regarding the dimensions, it is great to know that it is on your plate. I was
wondering is there a place where we can see the classes/properties that are in
the pipeline and participate to discussions around them?

Note however that for dimensions, the issue is not creating the property, but
teaching the software about units, so that such a property would make sense. A
*lot* of properties are waiting for unit support: length, height, speed,
distance, and many more are blocked on units.



See Wikidata:Property proposal/Pending/2 
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/Pending/2 for 
a list.
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Re: [Wikidata-l] Data templates

2015-04-02 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi,
I do not follow ... A quote is exactly that ... it is not a place where
things that do not fit neatly are to be dumped.

What you need to consider is what the value is of mono-lingual text.. A
motto as used on a shield makes sense.. a quote maybe, the original name of
something surely... but beyond that ...

Thanks,
 GerardM

On 1 April 2015 at 22:45, Joe Filceolaire filceola...@gmail.com wrote:

 We do have the Quote property (P1683) which has monolingual text
 datatype. You could certainly put free text in the value for this property
 and add this to a reference or even use it as a qualifier.

 Joe

 On Wed, Apr 1, 2015 at 9:54 AM, Daniel Kinzler 
 daniel.kinz...@wikimedia.de wrote:

 Am 01.04.2015 um 09:20 schrieb Valentine Charles:
  -Cultural Heritage data have most of the time a description property
 where you
  will find lot of relevant free text information. The structured
 property but
  inside you will find mostly free- text. I couldn't find a similar
 property in
  Wikidata but there is something similar in Dbpedia. Is it something you
 are
  planning to introduce or have you made the decision to exclude any
 free-text
  infromation from Wikidata for now.

 Free-form text is not machine-readable. Coding semi-structured
 information is
 very common in archives etc, but makes the data very hard to export,
 transform,
 and query. Free text fields should be used only for things that are
 actually
 text, such as a state motto.

 I think the need to encode things in free-form fields arose mostly from
 overly
 rigid data schemas. If there's no dedicated field for something, just
 stuff the
 info into the text field. Such fields turn into kitchen sinks that
 contain a
 hodge podge of different kinds of information.

 With Wikidata, there should be no need for this, since you can just
 create and
 use any properties you might be missing. That does mean though that wile
 importing, you have to somehow extract the relevant information from the
 free
 text. That effort has to be done at some point, if the data is to become
 machine
 readable.

  -While I was looking for painting in Wikidata I also noticed the
 absence of
  information related to the size/dimension of the Artwork. The
 information is
  most of the time present in Cultural Heritage data. Is it something
 Wikidata is
  interested in or has it been omitted intentionally?

 We don't support units of measurement yet, and without these, it's not
 really
 possible to give the dimension. We hope to finally change this over the
 next
 couple of months.

  -Then the last question is about values in different languages for a
 given
  property. How do you indicate the language in Wikidata? Are you using a
 xml:lang
  attribute or something similar?

 xml:lang would be used in the XML/RDF export (and lang in the HTML
 rendering).
 Internally, the language would be a string associated with the language
 key in
 a JSON structure. But neither fact is really relevant to the data model
 on an
 abstract level.

 Most properties (most data types) are language agnostic. Quantities,
 strings,
 time values, etc, do not have any notion of language. The only datatype
 for
 properties that supports a language code is monolingual text (a pair of
 language code + text). This data type is used sparingly, since usually,
 the need
 for internationalized naming and description is covered by the labels,
 descriptions, and aliases associated with a data item.

 Labels, descriptions, and aliases are not properties about which
 (sourced)
 statements would be made in the context of the data item. Instead, they
 are
 editorial attributes. They are fully internationalized, and intended to
 enable
 display, disambiguation, and search in as many languages as possible.

 For example, Q219831 has labels (and descriptions) in many languages:
 * nl: De Nachtwacht  (schilderij van Rembrandt van Rijn)
 * de: Die Nachtwache  (Gemälde von Rembrandt)
 * en: The Night Watch  (painting by Rembrandt van Rijn)
 * ru: Ночной дозор  (картина)

 So, when the painting is referenced elsewhere, a label (and description)
 can be
 shown in the user's language. Internationalized statements/properties are
 rarely
 needed.

 --
 Daniel Kinzler
 Senior Software Developer

 Wikimedia Deutschland
 Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.

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Re: [Wikidata-l] Data templates

2015-04-02 Thread Thomas Douillard
Hi, the place to discuss property proposal is
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal and its subpages.
We might need more people involved in this area.

Classes are regular items in wikidata and as such can be freely create.
They are, as regular items, subject to the notability policy :
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Notability to look at before
creating items. Every article in WIkipedias can potentially be a class
then, which means wa have a fair amount of preexistant classes ready to be
used :)

2015-04-02 9:03 GMT+02:00 Valentine Charles valentine...@gmail.com:

 Dear all,

 Thank you for your answers.
 I do understand indeed that the purpose if Wikidata is to have structured
 data but coming from the GLAMs sector I was wondering how our data could
 look like in Wikidata.
 In fact it could be an interesting exercise to evaluate from the generic
 description how much information could have been structured in a dedicated
 property. This would be valid for Wikidata but also all the data standards
 including the Europeana Data Model.
 Regarding the dimensions, it is great to know that it is on your plate. I
 was wondering is there a place where we can see the classes/properties that
 are in the pipeline and participate to discussions around them?


 Best,
 Valentine



 2015-04-01 23:51 GMT+02:00 Andrew Gray andrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk:

 Hi Valentine,

 The long, chatty, free-text descriptive element of Wikidata is really
 Wikipedia ;-)

 There is a small free-text field in Wikidata for each item (the
 description, one per language) but it's intended for a short
 identifying/disambiguating note: 1887 self-portrait by XYZ; Danish
 artist and historian, 1912-1974, etc.

 Dimensions are, I believe, being worked on.

 Andrew.

 On 1 April 2015 at 08:20, Valentine Charles valentine...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  Dear all,
 
  Thank you all for your answers. I will have a look to the different
 projects
  you have mentioned in your emails.
  In the meantime I have spent a bit more time exploring Wikidata for
  paintings as one of our project currently focuses on Art and comparing
 it
  with the Europeana Data Model in terms of properties. I have noticed the
  absence of some properties and I would be curious whether it is just an
  overlook or whether there is a real intention behind the omission:
 
  -Cultural Heritage data have most of the time a description property
 where
  you will find lot of relevant free text information. The structured
 property
  but inside you will find mostly free- text. I couldn't find a similar
  property in Wikidata but there is something similar in Dbpedia. Is it
  something you are planning to introduce or have you made the decision to
  exclude any free-text infromation from Wikidata for now.
 
  -While I was looking for painting in Wikidata I also noticed the
 absence of
  information related to the size/dimension of the Artwork. The
 information is
  most of the time present in Cultural Heritage data. Is it something
 Wikidata
  is interested in or has it been omitted intentionally?
 
  -Then the last question is about values in different languages for a
 given
  property. How do you indicate the language in Wikidata? Are you using a
  xml:lang attribute or something similar?
 
  Thank you very much for your help
 
  Best,
 
  Valentine
 
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   andrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk

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Re: [Wikidata-l] Data templates

2015-04-01 Thread Daniel Kinzler
Am 01.04.2015 um 09:20 schrieb Valentine Charles:
 -Cultural Heritage data have most of the time a description property where you
 will find lot of relevant free text information. The structured property but
 inside you will find mostly free- text. I couldn't find a similar property in
 Wikidata but there is something similar in Dbpedia. Is it something you are
 planning to introduce or have you made the decision to exclude any free-text
 infromation from Wikidata for now. 

Free-form text is not machine-readable. Coding semi-structured information is
very common in archives etc, but makes the data very hard to export, transform,
and query. Free text fields should be used only for things that are actually
text, such as a state motto.

I think the need to encode things in free-form fields arose mostly from overly
rigid data schemas. If there's no dedicated field for something, just stuff the
info into the text field. Such fields turn into kitchen sinks that contain a
hodge podge of different kinds of information.

With Wikidata, there should be no need for this, since you can just create and
use any properties you might be missing. That does mean though that wile
importing, you have to somehow extract the relevant information from the free
text. That effort has to be done at some point, if the data is to become machine
readable.

 -While I was looking for painting in Wikidata I also noticed the absence of
 information related to the size/dimension of the Artwork. The information is
 most of the time present in Cultural Heritage data. Is it something Wikidata 
 is
 interested in or has it been omitted intentionally? 

We don't support units of measurement yet, and without these, it's not really
possible to give the dimension. We hope to finally change this over the next
couple of months.

 -Then the last question is about values in different languages for a given
 property. How do you indicate the language in Wikidata? Are you using a 
 xml:lang
 attribute or something similar? 

xml:lang would be used in the XML/RDF export (and lang in the HTML rendering).
Internally, the language would be a string associated with the language key in
a JSON structure. But neither fact is really relevant to the data model on an
abstract level.

Most properties (most data types) are language agnostic. Quantities, strings,
time values, etc, do not have any notion of language. The only datatype for
properties that supports a language code is monolingual text (a pair of
language code + text). This data type is used sparingly, since usually, the need
for internationalized naming and description is covered by the labels,
descriptions, and aliases associated with a data item.

Labels, descriptions, and aliases are not properties about which (sourced)
statements would be made in the context of the data item. Instead, they are
editorial attributes. They are fully internationalized, and intended to enable
display, disambiguation, and search in as many languages as possible.

For example, Q219831 has labels (and descriptions) in many languages:
* nl: De Nachtwacht  (schilderij van Rembrandt van Rijn)
* de: Die Nachtwache  (Gemälde von Rembrandt)
* en: The Night Watch  (painting by Rembrandt van Rijn)
* ru: Ночной дозор  (картина)

So, when the painting is referenced elsewhere, a label (and description) can be
shown in the user's language. Internationalized statements/properties are rarely
needed.

-- 
Daniel Kinzler
Senior Software Developer

Wikimedia Deutschland
Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.

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Re: [Wikidata-l] Data templates

2015-04-01 Thread Andrew Gray
Hi Valentine,

The long, chatty, free-text descriptive element of Wikidata is really
Wikipedia ;-)

There is a small free-text field in Wikidata for each item (the
description, one per language) but it's intended for a short
identifying/disambiguating note: 1887 self-portrait by XYZ; Danish
artist and historian, 1912-1974, etc.

Dimensions are, I believe, being worked on.

Andrew.

On 1 April 2015 at 08:20, Valentine Charles valentine...@gmail.com wrote:
 Dear all,

 Thank you all for your answers. I will have a look to the different projects
 you have mentioned in your emails.
 In the meantime I have spent a bit more time exploring Wikidata for
 paintings as one of our project currently focuses on Art and comparing it
 with the Europeana Data Model in terms of properties. I have noticed the
 absence of some properties and I would be curious whether it is just an
 overlook or whether there is a real intention behind the omission:

 -Cultural Heritage data have most of the time a description property where
 you will find lot of relevant free text information. The structured property
 but inside you will find mostly free- text. I couldn't find a similar
 property in Wikidata but there is something similar in Dbpedia. Is it
 something you are planning to introduce or have you made the decision to
 exclude any free-text infromation from Wikidata for now.

 -While I was looking for painting in Wikidata I also noticed the absence of
 information related to the size/dimension of the Artwork. The information is
 most of the time present in Cultural Heritage data. Is it something Wikidata
 is interested in or has it been omitted intentionally?

 -Then the last question is about values in different languages for a given
 property. How do you indicate the language in Wikidata? Are you using a
 xml:lang attribute or something similar?

 Thank you very much for your help

 Best,

 Valentine

 ___
 Wikidata-l mailing list
 Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l




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  andrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk

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Re: [Wikidata-l] Data templates

2015-04-01 Thread Joe Filceolaire
We do have the Quote property (P1683) which has monolingual text
datatype. You could certainly put free text in the value for this property
and add this to a reference or even use it as a qualifier.

Joe

On Wed, Apr 1, 2015 at 9:54 AM, Daniel Kinzler daniel.kinz...@wikimedia.de
wrote:

 Am 01.04.2015 um 09:20 schrieb Valentine Charles:
  -Cultural Heritage data have most of the time a description property
 where you
  will find lot of relevant free text information. The structured property
 but
  inside you will find mostly free- text. I couldn't find a similar
 property in
  Wikidata but there is something similar in Dbpedia. Is it something you
 are
  planning to introduce or have you made the decision to exclude any
 free-text
  infromation from Wikidata for now.

 Free-form text is not machine-readable. Coding semi-structured information
 is
 very common in archives etc, but makes the data very hard to export,
 transform,
 and query. Free text fields should be used only for things that are
 actually
 text, such as a state motto.

 I think the need to encode things in free-form fields arose mostly from
 overly
 rigid data schemas. If there's no dedicated field for something, just
 stuff the
 info into the text field. Such fields turn into kitchen sinks that contain
 a
 hodge podge of different kinds of information.

 With Wikidata, there should be no need for this, since you can just create
 and
 use any properties you might be missing. That does mean though that wile
 importing, you have to somehow extract the relevant information from the
 free
 text. That effort has to be done at some point, if the data is to become
 machine
 readable.

  -While I was looking for painting in Wikidata I also noticed the absence
 of
  information related to the size/dimension of the Artwork. The
 information is
  most of the time present in Cultural Heritage data. Is it something
 Wikidata is
  interested in or has it been omitted intentionally?

 We don't support units of measurement yet, and without these, it's not
 really
 possible to give the dimension. We hope to finally change this over the
 next
 couple of months.

  -Then the last question is about values in different languages for a
 given
  property. How do you indicate the language in Wikidata? Are you using a
 xml:lang
  attribute or something similar?

 xml:lang would be used in the XML/RDF export (and lang in the HTML
 rendering).
 Internally, the language would be a string associated with the language
 key in
 a JSON structure. But neither fact is really relevant to the data model on
 an
 abstract level.

 Most properties (most data types) are language agnostic. Quantities,
 strings,
 time values, etc, do not have any notion of language. The only datatype for
 properties that supports a language code is monolingual text (a pair of
 language code + text). This data type is used sparingly, since usually,
 the need
 for internationalized naming and description is covered by the labels,
 descriptions, and aliases associated with a data item.

 Labels, descriptions, and aliases are not properties about which
 (sourced)
 statements would be made in the context of the data item. Instead, they are
 editorial attributes. They are fully internationalized, and intended to
 enable
 display, disambiguation, and search in as many languages as possible.

 For example, Q219831 has labels (and descriptions) in many languages:
 * nl: De Nachtwacht  (schilderij van Rembrandt van Rijn)
 * de: Die Nachtwache  (Gemälde von Rembrandt)
 * en: The Night Watch  (painting by Rembrandt van Rijn)
 * ru: Ночной дозор  (картина)

 So, when the painting is referenced elsewhere, a label (and description)
 can be
 shown in the user's language. Internationalized statements/properties are
 rarely
 needed.

 --
 Daniel Kinzler
 Senior Software Developer

 Wikimedia Deutschland
 Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.

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Re: [Wikidata-l] Data Templates

2015-03-28 Thread Thomas Douillard
Hi, for France I'm also aware of the historical monuments project, that
might be interesting for you:
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_France/Monuments_historiques

2015-03-28 0:12 GMT+01:00 Daniel Mietchen daniel.mietc...@googlemail.com:

 Hi Valentine,

 I think the following projects would also fall within the scope of your
 search:
 * https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Source_MetaData
 * https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_sum_of_all_paintings
 * https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Wikidata_for_research
 The latter wrote a H2020 proposal in which Europeana is a partner:
 *
 https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Wikidata_for_research/EINFRA-9-2015
 .

 Cheers,

 Daniel


 On Fri, Mar 27, 2015 at 4:18 PM, Valentine Charles
 valentine...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  Hi all,
 
  Europeana.eu is interested in using Wikidata. At the moment, we are
 trying
  to make a correspondence between the data structures in Wikidata and our
  data model EDM [1] for digitized cultural collections.
 
  We started by looking at the general Wikidata project page [2] and found
  that the following projects and related property list pages could be a
  starting point for our work:
  http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Visual_arts,
 
 http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Books,http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Periodicals
 .
 
  Next to cultural items, we are also looking at persons, organizations,
  places, subjects, events and the abstract notion of work for enriching
 our
  data beyond the original description that is provided to us. For this we
  found the http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Infoboxes a
 good
  starting point since it gathers all of them, and also
  http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Years_WikiProject for simple
 dates.
 
  We would appreciate if you could help us on finding other wikidata
 projects
  that we would have missed, or any other work that could be relevant for
 us!
 
  Thanks in advance,
 
  [1] http://pro.europeana.eu/edm-documentation
  [2] http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProjects
 
 
  Valentine
  Data RD coordinator at Europeana Foundation
 
 
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Re: [Wikidata-l] Data Templates

2015-03-27 Thread Daniel Mietchen
Hi Valentine,

I think the following projects would also fall within the scope of your search:
* https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Source_MetaData
* https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_sum_of_all_paintings
* https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Wikidata_for_research
The latter wrote a H2020 proposal in which Europeana is a partner:
* 
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Wikidata_for_research/EINFRA-9-2015
.

Cheers,

Daniel


On Fri, Mar 27, 2015 at 4:18 PM, Valentine Charles
valentine...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi all,

 Europeana.eu is interested in using Wikidata. At the moment, we are trying
 to make a correspondence between the data structures in Wikidata and our
 data model EDM [1] for digitized cultural collections.

 We started by looking at the general Wikidata project page [2] and found
 that the following projects and related property list pages could be a
 starting point for our work:
 http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Visual_arts,
 http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Books,http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Periodicals.

 Next to cultural items, we are also looking at persons, organizations,
 places, subjects, events and the abstract notion of work for enriching our
 data beyond the original description that is provided to us. For this we
 found the http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Infoboxes a good
 starting point since it gathers all of them, and also
 http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Years_WikiProject for simple dates.

 We would appreciate if you could help us on finding other wikidata projects
 that we would have missed, or any other work that could be relevant for us!

 Thanks in advance,

 [1] http://pro.europeana.eu/edm-documentation
 [2] http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProjects


 Valentine
 Data RD coordinator at Europeana Foundation


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