Hi everyone,
The concerns that have been raised here have, for the most part, been
well addressed by those of you with event planning experience (thank
you!). Still, I thought it was important to add some clarity and
context where possible.
As some of you have mentioned, all Wikimanias are heavily subsidized
by the Foundation, and only a small portion of the overall cost is
passed on in the form of registration. Stockholm is more expensive
than other locations, and the price of hosting the event at Stockholm
University is comparable to that of any large event space, which is
why the pricing is similar to Wikimania Montreal. However, while
location is a factor in the overall cost of the event, we do try to
mitigate fluctuations in registration price as much as possible.
Finally, and perhaps most importantly, even as costs have fluctuated,
the number of scholarships awarded has indeed remained fairly constant
over the last few years. Scholarships are a critical element of
promoting equity and inclusion at our events. For many, an inability
to attend is not due to the price of registration itself, but rather
the travel and accommodations, and providing support for that will
remain a top priority.
Thanks for your interest in Wikimania and the planning process.
Best,
Joël L.
*Jo**ël Letang* (he/him)*_
_*Events Team Manager
Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
On Sun, Jun 9, 2019 at 2:20 PM Peter Southwood
<peter.southw...@telkomsa.net <mailto:peter.southw...@telkomsa.net>>
wrote:
I am in a similar position. I went to one Wikimania – it was in my
home city, so I commuted in each day. I am unlikely to be able to
attend another. The money would be better spent on other things
that are more necessary. This is probably pretty average. It was
worth attending that time because it was affordable. For most
Wikimedians it is not worth attending because it is not
affordable, and we prefer being able to eat regularly and sleep
under a roof.
Cheers,
Peter
*From:*Wikimania-l [mailto:wikimania-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org
<mailto:wikimania-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org>] *On Behalf Of *CS
*Sent:* 09 June 2019 11:11
*To:* Wikimania general list (open subscription)
*Subject:* Re: [Wikimania-l] Wikimania 2019 Early Bird
Registration is Now Open!
My position is the same as that of One/Risker, except that I
am a retiree on a small budget.
I have self-financed all but one of my Wikipedia trips, but
roughly $3,000 for a trip to Sweden for me is totally out
of the question.
While I realize that opportunities need to be extended to new
and curious users, some of us have worked very hard for
Wikipedia over the years, (and been on the scholarships
committee), and for the kind of work we do, meeting our
colleagues and the WMF staff face-to-face is indispensable.
Not being able to attend does not encourage further dedication
to Wikipedia.
The scholarships committee should take into account the personal
financial effort made by attendees of several conferences.
In my opinion, as not all users come from wealthy countries
such as North America or Europe, Wikimania should be held in
more easily accessible and lower cost venues.
Kudpung
On 4 Jun 2019, at 13:10, Risker <risker...@gmail.com
<mailto:risker...@gmail.com>> wrote:
I've been extremely lucky over the years to have attended several
Wikimanias. I live in Canada (so almost never needed a visa) and
had the financial flexibility to do so. I've paid my own way to
some, been subsidized for others with clear expectations that I
would carry out certain activities in exchange, and received one
partial scholarship (which was supposed to be enough for my
airfare - if I had booked it seven months in advance...). Even
when I've been subsidized, I've had out-of-pocket expenses that I
did not receive reimbursement for until months later (if at all),
but I am blessed not to have to worry about whether there will be
food on the table or a roof over my head. We in the Western world
are used to having paid vacation time - often multiple weeks per
year - and that is another barrier for people in other countries
with different cultures and economies. And many people from Europe
and North America don't need to go through the expense and
challenge of obtaining visas to most of the Wikimania or other
conference locations.
But hundreds - no, thousands - of dedicated contributors aren't in
my/our position. Even if they are lucky enough to get a full
scholarship, they can't afford the time off work, or get the visa,
or cover the upfront costs of the travel experience that may or
may not be reimbursed. They tend to be in locations far from
wherever Wikimania may be, so paying out of their own pocket is
much more expensive than if they were living in Europe or North
America. Their voices are the ones we miss the most at our
conferences and Wikimanias - and their absence makes it that much
more challenging to help grow new communities.
There will be people who won't be at Wikimania this year because
for non-Europeans it is very expensive to get to and stay in
Sweden. If my trip this year was not being subsidized (and I have
written responsibilities in exchange for that subsidy), I would
not be going to Wikimania this year; even a "rich Westerner" finds
it too costly.
I don't think that the baseline conference fee is out of line with
what real expenses will be for Wikimania. It's an expensive place
and, even if the university is substantially cutting its fees for
food and room rentals, it's still going to cost an awful lot of
money. In an ideal world, everyone who wanted to attend would be
subsidized, but I'm realistic enough to know that if we as a
movement were to do that, the conference would be even more
heavily weighted with voices from Europe and North America.
Risker/Anne
On Tue, 4 Jun 2019 at 00:29, Wilfredo Rodríguez
<wilfre...@gmail.com <mailto:wilfre...@gmail.com>> wrote:
There must be a coherent explanation. It is possible that
there is an alliance that we can not see between WMF and the
university so that WMF receives the surplus in donations that
will be cleanly used.
On Mon, Jun 3, 2019, 22:01 Paulo Santos Perneta,
<paulospern...@gmail.com <mailto:paulospern...@gmail.com>> wrote:
We are talking about a very dramatic increase in the fee
in the last few years, not about universities doing events
for free. And it is quite hard to understand how come an
event on campus as a fee similar to the ones organized at
a five star hotels.
Paulo
A segunda, 3 de jun de 2019, 22:55, Kerry Raymond
<kerry.raym...@gmail.com <mailto:kerry.raym...@gmail.com>>
escreveu:
Well, as someone who has worked at a number of
universities and organised events at others, I am well
aware that many universities are short of cash and
expect to be paid by others to use their facilities so
I would not assume that being “on campus” is a free or
low-cost venue for Wikimania. A university *may
*decide that an event is sufficiently in-line with
their own goals that they may reduce/waive the cost,
but holding events at a university does incur real
additional costs to the university, such as cleaning
and security at a minimum, so it is not unfair to
charge for their use.
Kerry
*From:*Wikimania-l
[mailto:wikimania-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org
<mailto:wikimania-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org>] *On
Behalf Of *Paulo Santos Perneta
*Sent:* Monday, 3 June 2019 8:21 PM
*To:* Wikimania general list (open subscription)
<wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
<mailto:wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>>
*Subject:* Re: [Wikimania-l] Wikimania 2019 Early Bird
Registration is Now Open!
Sorry, in the first sentence it should read
"wikimania" , not "Wikimedia"
A segunda, 3 de jun de 2019, 11:19, Paulo Santos
Perneta <paulospern...@gmail.com
<mailto:paulospern...@gmail.com>> escreveu:
For us in Portugal joining wikimedia, even in a
relatively close city like Stockholm, without a
scholarship stands at a minimum cost of 1000€,
which really is a prohibitive cost for the great
majority of people here, corresponding to way more
than a regular full month wage (two minimum wages,
actually).
25% of that cost corresponding to fees that even
wikimedia volunteers have to pay does seem quite
obscene to me.
If a significant amount of the cost is going to
fancy luxury hotels and parties - those last ones
barred to wikimedians below 18 years, in this
years event - this really should be something to
be reviewed. Also, I agree that it is quite
difficult to understand such an high fee in this
year wikimania, where most of the stuff seems to
be organized on campus.
Paulo
A segunda, 3 de jun de 2019, 00:32, Gnangarra
<gnanga...@gmail.com <mailto:gnanga...@gmail.com>>
escreveu:
As has in previous years been suggested if we
want Wikimania to be truly inclusive and
encourage more people to attend then the WMF
should just extend the fundraising by a week
and use that to subsidise the event making it
more accessible to everyone. 1,000 particiants
at 250€ is just an extra 250,000€ to collect,
collecting enough to allow 200 scholarships
would enable greater participation from more
communities.
On Mon, 3 Jun 2019 at 03:16, Mykola Kozlenko
<mycol...@ukr.net <mailto:mycol...@ukr.net>>
wrote:
In 2015, 2017 and 2018 we had Wikimanias
in really upscale hotels. I can perfectly
understand why renting conference rooms
and arranging catering for all
participants in a Sheraton or a Hilton is
expensive. For instance, Montréal
experience in 2017 was pretty much worse
233 USD indeed given that we were in a
centrally-located Sheraton.
This year we are having a Wikimania on a
university campus. Yes, Stockholm is an
expensive city, but Montréal is not really
cheap either. I can't really understand
how a university campus in Stockholm is
more than 50% more expensive than a
Sheraton in Montréal.
I don't say I want these costs unbundled,
I am happy to pay for the full experience,
but with a price tag that high I would
really like to know where all this money
will go.
Best regards,
Mykola (NickK)
/--- Оригінальне повідомлення ---
Від кого:
"Isarra Yos" <zhoris...@gmail.com
<mailto:zhoris...@gmail.com>>
Дата: 2 червня 2019, 18:19:17/
On 01/06/2019 19:44, effe iets anders
wrote:
> You're claiming that this year is a higher rate than usual, I don't
> think this is actually true. Some context:
> - 2016: 500 euro, but this included
accommodation and full board
> - 2017: 315 CAD (~233 USD)
> - 2018: 275 USD
2016 is indeed when it first went up,
but even then the 500€ value was
fairly consistent with how much one
could expect the whole thing to cost
when including fairly decent food and
accommodation. What was concerning
was that then the cost stayed
relatively high, without any of the
included stuff - if the 250€ is only
the registration price, there's not
much to decouple. For instance, is
there any food to not include? Lunch
being included has pretty much always
been standard, for good reason,
and we're not doing breakfast and
dinner for everyone in the first
place, are we? (As I recall, 2015 did
include dinner, though, which may
indicate part of why it was also more
expensive.) And even in terms of
fanciness, I'm not sure how much value
that has, or if they even have
been meaningfully more so than they
used to be. Comparing to the
Wikiconference USA/NA events I
attended some of the same years (I don't
think any were over $50, definitely
not more than $100), the Wikimanias
were mostly just... bigger. Higher volume.
For reference, prior wikimanias cost
the following for Wikimedians:
2015: $95
2014: £50.00
2013: $45
2012: $35
2011: $45
2010: 30-40€
2009: $45
2008: $45
2007: $40-60
2006: $90
2005 I can't find, but it was the
first and thus organised a bit differently
So what happened? How is 250€ now not
a lot of money? The first
Wikimania I attended was in 2012 and
my entire budget was $500, which
was basically my holiday budget for
the year. I was a student from a
poor background, and a lot of our
contributors are students. Quite a few
of our contributors aren't exactly
upper class, or from countries with
great conversion rates. Should we
really be requiring them to get
special support now to even register
for the main event for what is
supposed to be a world-wide, inclusive
movement?
250€ is a quite a lot of money. Other
things to attend may still cost
around the same or more, but if we
also need to spend it on those
things, we're not going to have that
money left to spend on the
registration as well.
-I
https://wikimania2015.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Registration
https://www.eventbrite.com/e/wikimania-2014-registration-11063436035
https://wikimania2010.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Registration
https://wikimania2009.wikimedia.org/wiki/Registration
(and the same page
on other years)
https://wikimania2006.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Registration&oldid=5931
_______________________________________________
Wikimania-l mailing list
Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
<mailto:Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
_______________________________________________
Wikimania-l mailing list
Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
<mailto:Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
--
GN.
Noongarpedia:
https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page
WMAU:
http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
<http://gnangarra.redbubble.com/>
Out now: A.Gaynor, P. Newman and P. Jennings
(eds.), /Never Again: Reflections on
Environmental Responsibility after Roe 8/,
UWAP, 2017. Order here
<https://uwap.uwa.edu.au/products/never-again-reflections-on-environmental-responsibility-after-roe-8>.
*Error! Filename not specified.*
_______________________________________________
Wikimania-l mailing list
Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
<mailto:Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
_______________________________________________
Wikimania-l mailing list
Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
<mailto:Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
_______________________________________________
Wikimania-l mailing list
Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
<mailto:Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
_______________________________________________
Wikimania-l mailing list
Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
<mailto:Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
_______________________________________________
Wikimania-l mailing list
Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
<mailto:Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Image removed by sender.
<http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>
Virus-free. www.avg.com
<http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>
_______________________________________________
Wikimania-l mailing list
Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
<mailto:Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
_______________________________________________
Wikimania-l mailing list
Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
