Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Israel joins the nationwide strike to protest the exclusion of gay couples the right to become parents

2018-07-22 Thread Shlomi Fish
On Sun, 22 Jul 2018 17:40:49 -0400 Nathan wrote: > I think Andrea's post perfectly illustrates the risk to WMF and WM > affiliates of embracing political positions outside the core mission of the > projects. The number of worthy causes is near infinite; every time you > endorse one you please

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Israel joins the nationwide strike to protest the exclusion of gay couples the right to become parents

2018-07-22 Thread Nathan
I think Andrea's post perfectly illustrates the risk to WMF and WM affiliates of embracing political positions outside the core mission of the projects. The number of worthy causes is near infinite; every time you endorse one you please some people and make many other people wonder why you

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Israel joins the nationwide strike to protest the exclusion of gay couples the right to become parents

2018-07-22 Thread Michel Vuijlsteke
+1 On 22 July 2018 at 10:02, Andrea Zanni wrote: > Hi all, > I'll ask forgiveness in advance for starting a probable flame. > > I support WMIL stance: equity is absolutely within our Wikimedia > values, and supporting LGBTQ rights is always a good thing. > > But I cannot help but see the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Israel joins the nationwide strike to protest the exclusion of gay couples the right to become parents

2018-07-22 Thread Andrea Zanni
Hi all, I'll ask forgiveness in advance for starting a probable flame. I support WMIL stance: equity is absolutely within our Wikimedia values, and supporting LGBTQ rights is always a good thing. But I cannot help but see the enormity of omission here: the Israeli government just passed a law

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Israel joins the nationwide strike to protest the exclusion of gay couples the right to become parents

2018-07-21 Thread Chris Keating
On Fri, Jul 20, 2018 at 10:23 AM Shlomi Fish wrote: > > Hi Itzik, > > > I do not oppose the LGBT movement, but please explain how an official support > of that falls under the global Wikimedia project's mission, and does not > dilute our policy of avoiding having a stance on issues that are

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Israel joins the nationwide strike to protest the exclusion of gay couples the right to become parents

2018-07-21 Thread Mario Gómez
I don't want to engage in endless political flamewars, so this is my last email on this list discussing the political substance of surrogacy, I could, and I could do it with reliable sources, which were not asked in the first place to justify WMIL statement. But I don't meant to lobby here,

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Israel joins the nationwide strike to protest the exclusion of gay couples the right to become parents

2018-07-21 Thread Mario Gómez
On Sat, Jul 21, 2018 at 2:41 PM, Fæ wrote: > > The anti-surrogacy movement may not be anti-LGBT, I basically said > that in my previous email. If you want to lobby against surrogacy, > there is no problem with doing so in the right forum, and as all legal > surrogacies over the last 22 years in

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Israel joins the nationwide strike to protest the exclusion of gay couples the right to become parents

2018-07-21 Thread
Let's be clear. The anti-surrogacy movement may not be anti-LGBT, I basically said that in my previous email. If you want to lobby against surrogacy, there is no problem with doing so in the right forum, and as all legal surrogacies over the last 22 years in Israel have been *100% for

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Israel joins the nationwide strike to protest the exclusion of gay couples the right to become parents

2018-07-21 Thread Mario Gómez
On Sat, Jul 21, 2018 at 2:26 PM, Fæ wrote: > On Sat, 21 Jul 2018 at 13:12, Mario Gómez wrote: > > > No it is not "fair", it is a way of dismissing equality for LGBT+ > people by parodying and stereotyping all of us with views in this area > as rich white men. That is wrapping distasteful

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Israel joins the nationwide strike to protest the exclusion of gay couples the right to become parents

2018-07-21 Thread
On Sat, 21 Jul 2018 at 13:12, Mario Gómez wrote: > > On Sat, Jul 21, 2018 at 1:41 PM, Fæ wrote: > > > However when you choose to derail a discussion that is no more and no > > less than same sex couples being treated equally and being given equal > > access for parental rights and medical

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Israel joins the nationwide strike to protest the exclusion of gay couples the right to become parents

2018-07-21 Thread Mario Gómez
On Sat, Jul 21, 2018 at 1:41 PM, Fæ wrote: > However when you choose to derail a discussion that is no more and no > less than same sex couples being treated equally and being given equal > access for parental rights and medical support, then your actions will > be read as supporting the use of

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Israel joins the nationwide strike to protest the exclusion of gay couples the right to become parents

2018-07-21 Thread
I understood the point you were making. However if we agree on full equality, then please recognise that when a state allows surrogacy for heterosexual couples but makes it unlawful for same sex couples, this is anti-LGBT discrimination. If you want to complain about surrogacy in Israel because

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Israel joins the nationwide strike to protest the exclusion of gay couples the right to become parents

2018-07-21 Thread Mario Gómez
Hi Fæ, On Sat, Jul 21, 2018 at 11:46 AM, Fæ wrote: > In Wikipedian fashion, let us stick to the published statement by > Wikimedia Israel without making unnecessary inferences. That is what I do as a Wikipedia editor. But I don't find it reasonable when it comes to WMF and affiliates

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Israel joins the nationwide strike to protest the exclusion of gay couples the right to become parents

2018-07-21 Thread
In Wikipedian fashion, let us stick to the published statement by Wikimedia Israel without making unnecessary inferences. WMIL made a positive statement to support equality, and we know that equality is repeated in the Wikimedia Values and echoed in the developing future strategy.[1][2] The

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Israel joins the nationwide strike to protest the exclusion of gay couples the right to become parents

2018-07-21 Thread Mario Gómez
I see. Yes. Part of the LGBTQ collective considers surrogacy to be related to their rights. I completely acknowledge that. Best, Mario On Sat, Jul 21, 2018 at 4:01 AM, Gregory Varnum wrote: > I think you misunderstood my point there. ;) > > I was speaking to your comment that it was

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Israel joins the nationwide strike to protest the exclusion of gay couples the right to become parents

2018-07-20 Thread Gregory Varnum
I think you misunderstood my point there. ;) I was speaking to your comment that it was incorrectly labeled a LGBTQ issue because of adoption. I did not mean to suggest no one is against surrogacy or that they are not promoting adoption as an alternative. I was indicating that to my knowledge

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Israel joins the nationwide strike to protest the exclusion of gay couples the right to become parents

2018-07-20 Thread Mario Gómez
On Sat, Jul 21, 2018 at 2:56 AM, Gregory Varnum wrote: > As far as it being an alternative, that is usually true, but it is also > true for non-LGBTQ families and I am not aware of viable political > movements successfully suggesting non-LGBTQ families should not worry about > surrogacy laws as

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Israel joins the nationwide strike to protest the exclusion of gay couples the right to become parents

2018-07-20 Thread Gregory Varnum
Taking off my “staff hat” and not weighing in on WMIL taking this stance, but did want to correct one claim and offer some context on this issue overall. :) Having worked on LGBTQ issues most of my professional career, and being a gay man planning on having a child one day, I feel confident I

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Israel joins the nationwide strike to protest the exclusion of gay couples the right to become parents

2018-07-20 Thread Mario Gómez
Hi, "a legal change on that would have given the LGBT community the right to become parents" If I read correctly, this is simply not true. It denied the right to use gestational surrogacy. They can adopt though. Note that gestational surrogacy is not a simple issue and it is highly political.

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Israel joins the nationwide strike to protest the exclusion of gay couples the right to become parents

2018-07-20 Thread Shlomi Fish
Hi Itzik, On Fri, 20 Jul 2018 10:57:12 +0300 Itzik - Wikimedia Israel wrote: > Hi, > > A few days ago, the Israeli parliament, with the support of Israeli Prime > Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, blocked a legal change on that would have > given the LGBT community the right to become parents. The

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Israel joins the nationwide strike to protest the exclusion of gay couples the right to become parents

2018-07-20 Thread
Congratulations to the Wikimedia Israel board for taking positive action for equality. Fae -- fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae Wikimedia LGBT+ User Group https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_LGBT+ On Fri, 20 Jul 2018 at 08:57, Itzik - Wikimedia Israel wrote: > >

[Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Israel joins the nationwide strike to protest the exclusion of gay couples the right to become parents

2018-07-20 Thread Itzik - Wikimedia Israel
Hi, A few days ago, the Israeli parliament, with the support of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, blocked a legal change on that would have given the LGBT community the right to become parents. The new law denies state-supported surrogacy to LGBT couples and single men. In response,