Thanks Ad,
I am concerned about Andreas Kolbe's overall behavior on this mailing list and why the mailing list administrators tolerate this sort of behavior for so long. If something about the WMF's finances is not clear to you, you should email the finance team at the WMF to seek clarification. Coming here to raise a false alarm at every slight opportunity is distasteful. @Mailing list admin, at what point should we be moderating or removing people with this type of behavior from this list? Thank you. Alan. On Wed, Nov 9, 2022, 23:04 Andreas Kolbe <jayen...@gmail.com> wrote: > Ad, > > According to the WMF's FAQ:[1] > > "During this audit period, some of the Foundation's cash was invested in > mortgage backed securities, U.S. Treasury securities, corporate bonds, and > stocks (Note 3)."[1] > > So it appears your information is outdated. > > See also page 11 of the financial statements (page 13 in the pdf).[2] This > shows a table titled "Fair Value of Investments" which is over my head, but > which you and others may be able to make sense of. > > Among "long-term investments", this does include a figure of about $25 > million for "Stocks." > > So, what does this mean? > > Andreas > > [1] > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_reports/Financial/Audits/2021-2022_-_frequently_asked_questions > [2] > https://foundation.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File%3AWikimedia_Foundation_FY2021-2022_Audit_Report.pdf&page=13 > > On Wed, Nov 9, 2022 at 9:08 PM Ad Huikeshoven <ad.huikesho...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> The WMF does not invest in stocks, only in bonds. >> >> Op wo 9 nov. 2022 21:51 schreef Andreas Kolbe <jayen...@gmail.com>: >> >>> Dear Steven, >>> >>> Thank you for your explanation. I had naively assumed the investment >>> income in the "Support and revenue" section of the financial statements was >>> only for income *from* investments (i.e. dividend payments etc.), >>> without tracking changes in the value *of* investments as well. So what >>> you say makes sense. >>> >>> There is still something odd though. The US stock market dropped in >>> 2019–2020 as well, as a result of Covid. The Dow Jones Index went from >>> about 26,600 at the end of June 2019 to about 25,000 by the end of June >>> 2020, having fallen below 20,000 in the spring. But even so, the WMF had a >>> positive investment income of $5.5 million that year.[1] >>> >>> The following year, 2020–2021, the stock market *rose* very >>> substantially, with the DJI going from the said 25,000 to 34,500 by the end >>> of June 2021 – an increase of almost 10,000 points. Yet WMF investment >>> income was $1 million *less* than the year prior: just $4.4 million.[1] >>> >>> In the 2021–2022 year, as you say, the stock market went down again, the >>> DJI dropping from the said 34,500 to 31,100 at the end of June 2022. So >>> that drop is indeed twice as large as the drop in 2019–2020, but to go from >>> a $5.5 million *gain* in a year where the DJI dropped by 1,600 points >>> to a $12 million *loss* in a year where the DJI dropped by 3,400 points >>> struck me as odd. >>> >>> And I still don't quite understand why the Q3 tuning session forecast a >>> $26 million surplus,[2] while the actual surplus turned out to be just $8 >>> million. I guess the fact that most of the drop in the markets occurred >>> from April onwards could explain part of it. >>> >>> Andreas >>> >>> [1] >>> https://foundation.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File%3AWikimedia_Foundation_FY2020-2021_Audit_Report.pdf&page=5 >>> [2] >>> https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File%3AF%26A_Tuning_Session_FY21-22_Q3.pdf&page=5 >>> >>> On Wed, Nov 9, 2022 at 7:36 PM Steven Walling <steven.wall...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Nov 9, 2022 at 10:37 AM Andreas Kolbe <jayen...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Dear WMF Finance staff, >>>>> >>>>> I inquired over a week ago on Meta-Wiki why the WMF is reporting a >>>>> negative investment income (–$12 million). There has been no answer to >>>>> date.[1] >>>>> >>>>> I am a layperson, but how can an investment income be negative? Would >>>>> you mind sharing what this is about? >>>>> >>>> >>>> You probably didn't get a prompt answer because "how can investment >>>> income be negative" is something you could have Googled before asking the >>>> finance team. >>>> >>>> Investments can lose value.* The US stock market has lost a tremendous >>>> amount of value over the last year, so it would not be surprising that most >>>> investments would have a negative return recently. >>>> >>>> * https://www.investopedia.com/terms/n/negative-return.asp >>>> https://www.finra.org/investors/investing/investing-basics/risk >>>> >>>> I was also surprised to find that the reported increase in net assets >>>>> for the 2021–2022 financial year was "only" $8.2 million. The >>>>> third-quarter >>>>> F&A tuning session published in May (based on data as of March 31) >>>>> forecast >>>>> a far higher surplus, with an increase in net assets of $25.9 million.[2] >>>>> >>>>> Would you mind sharing what happened in the fourth quarter to reduce >>>>> the surplus by so much? >>>>> >>>>> Best wishes, >>>>> Andreas >>>>> >>>>> [1] >>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_reports/Financial/Audits/2021-2022_-_frequently_asked_questions >>>>> [2] >>>>> https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File%3AF%26A_Tuning_Session_FY21-22_Q3.pdf&page=5 >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Nov 1, 2022 at 3:45 PM Andreas Kolbe <jayen...@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Dear all, >>>>>> >>>>>> The WMF's audited financial statements are now available here: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/foundation/2/26/Wikimedia_Foundation_FY2021-2022_Audit_Report.pdf >>>>>> >>>>>> Some key figures from the page numbered 4 (page 6 in the pdf): >>>>>> >>>>>> – Net invest income was negative: –$12M (down $16M) >>>>>> – Total support and revenue was $155M (down $8M due to that negative >>>>>> investment income) >>>>>> – Total expenses were $146M (up $34M) >>>>>> – Salaries and wages were $88M (up $20M) >>>>>> – Net assets at end of year increased by $8M >>>>>> >>>>>> For reference, the end-of-year increase in net assets forecast in the >>>>>> third-quarter Finance & Administration tuning session deck published in >>>>>> May >>>>>> 2022 was $25.9M: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File%3AF%26A_Tuning_Session_FY21-22_Q3.pdf&page=5 >>>>>> >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> Andreas >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, >>>>> guidelines at: >>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>>> Public archives at >>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/5M36VZBWLE6P4XCDAVL7L3FEPGNSSQNX/ >>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, >>>> guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines >>>> and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>> Public archives at >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/QHIQDCPCDC2D7FQROP6ACC4C2JUBP5D5/ >>>> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines >>> at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>> Public archives at >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/GLE5RY4BG2DRQFYSPPUOLZMNAA2ONV72/ >>> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines >> at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> Public archives at >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/2GQERECVJTOEN3SSFLTTV6CNDEKWSXR6/ >> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines > at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > Public archives at > https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/HHS2PTXTS7JJKN6WRQUQ5NSXERBUPHKS/ > To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org
_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/ELJU52BMWKDC4O4ANIPWMZH5VXJSHO64/ To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org
