Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on IPv6
John Du Hart wrote: On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 7:08 PM, Risker risker...@gmail.com wrote: Erik, what time is this scheduled to go live? And on which projects? Please be specific here. I am gravely concerned about the privacy issues that are attached to IPv6 IP addresses, as they are in many cases almost personally identifying information, something that is not permitted to be released under our privacy policy. Have arrangements been made to hash these IP addresses to prevent them from being publicly available? What personal information do you think is contained in an IPv6 address? I wondered what Risker was referring to as well, so I looked up IPv6 + privacy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPv6#Privacy. After reading that section, it's still unclear to me whether IPv6 is significantly more privacy invasive than IPv4. MZMcBride ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on IPv6
On 02/06/12 05:04, Hersfold wrote: I'm very concerned that this is what's going to happen with the IPv6 change - something major is going to fail, and the wiki will become inaccessible, or some major security feature (blocking or protection, for example) will be rendered inoperable, leaving the wikis vulnerable to attack from all fronts. The latter situation seems to be more likely based on past issues, and unfortunately more problematic; once these issues get noted, it'll take only minutes for /b/, GNAA, and a long list of other vandals to figure it out and launch a full-scale attack that'll take weeks to clean up. We could just allow blocking of arbitrarily large IPv6 ranges. Then if there is some emergency, you can just block everyone who is using IPv6 from editing. The collateral damage would be smaller than the IPv4 /16 blocks which admins apply routinely. -- Tim Starling ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on IPv6
Hi Risker et al, a few important points: * IPv6 adoption is still below 1% globally [1]. * It's likely that we'll encounter network-level issues well before we hit application-level issues during limited production testing. * In the event that we manage to resolve all issues, it's likely that we'll only see very limited use/abuse of IPv6 addresses and that we'll have plenty of time to adjust procedures and documentation. * We can abort this fairly easily, or as Tim suggests, employ global blocks of IPv6 addresses to manage abuse. As noted, the plan is to engage in limited production testing this weekend, with possible full deployment by IPv6 Day (Wednesday). I should also note that the degree to which all the complex network and software interactions of a deployment like this can be tested without actually changing or affecting production operations is limited. We're going to be debugging issues in real-time. I appreciate that this is very short notice for lots of people and apologize for that; thanks to Tilman for helping with the global notice dissemination. There's pretty good likelihood that aside from maybe some brief service interruptions, the user impact is going to be close to nil, either due to an abort early on, or due to very limited IPv6 usage. Moving towards full IPv6 support is part of our responsibility as a good Internet citizen, and this has been in the works for a long time. It's never been an option not to do this as IPv4 addresses are being exhausted. Regarding privacy, both IPv4 and IPv6 addresses can be dangerously revealing in terms of personal identity (e.g. some ISPs even tie street address information to your IPv4 address). It's always been fundamentally problematic that MediaWiki reveals this information nakedly, and it's what enabled past large-scale investigations like WikiScanner, for good and for ill. In the mid to long term, I believe we need to investigate moving away from full disclosure of IP addresses when editing without logging in, but this is independent of IPv4/IPv6. All best, Erik [1] https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics/ -- Erik Möller VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation Support Free Knowledge: https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
[Wikimedia-l] Myth Busted Re: TomTom does a Britannica
On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 08:08:21AM -0400, Anthony wrote: The difference is that Wikipedia is usable in the real world, whereas OSM, for the most part, is not. OSMAndroid is fully usable for satnav in the real world. It includes enough data on streets, buildings and POI's to find what you need. You can download maps so you don't need a network connection for maps; and recent upgrades also allow one to do routing on the local CPU, so you can use your android phone just like a tomtom, except with OSM map data ;-) When eg. playing tourist in Italy, this worked perfectly for me. I'm going to say that this myth is busted ;-) sincerely, Kim Bruning ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on IPv6
On Sat, Jun 2, 2012 at 8:49 AM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.com wrote: On 2 June 2012 13:44, Anthony wikim...@inbox.org wrote: On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 7:27 PM, John Du Hart compwhi...@gmail.com wrote: What personal information do you think is contained in an IPv6 address? Don't they sometimes contain MAC address information? I don't know, but I wouldn't consider my MAC address to be personal information... you might be able to work out what brand of computer I'm using, but I can live with that. I'm not sure what you're defining personal information as, then. Is your vehicle's VIN personal information? ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on IPv6
On Sat, Jun 2, 2012 at 6:13 AM, Anthony wikim...@inbox.org wrote: On Sat, Jun 2, 2012 at 8:49 AM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.com wrote: On 2 June 2012 13:44, Anthony wikim...@inbox.org wrote: On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 7:27 PM, John Du Hart compwhi...@gmail.com wrote: What personal information do you think is contained in an IPv6 address? Don't they sometimes contain MAC address information? I don't know, but I wouldn't consider my MAC address to be personal information... you might be able to work out what brand of computer I'm using, but I can live with that. I think that having a problem with the implementation of IPv6 is about 10 years too late now ;) The IPv4 space is being exhausted, and we're going to soon run into the opposite problem that IPv4 addresses will be not identifiable enough as ISP's use NAT. If someone cares about their mac address information, they can use privacy extensions - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipv6#Privacy . Considering that in the vast, vast majority of the consumer (versus production) world, you have to purposefully enable IPv6 (usually with some sort of tunneling), and that these are turned on in most operating systems by default, mac addressing is starting to only become applicable in production environments. Leslie -- Leslie Carr Wikimedia Foundation AS 14907, 43821 http://as14907.peeringdb.com/ ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
[Wikimedia-l] Larry Sanger rides again
Fortunately, average Slashdotter is not a moron [1], like he is. Does anyone know does he have some new project which needs promotion in media? And may WMF give some money to him, not to mess around? [1] http://news.slashdot.org/story/12/06/01/2119248/what-should-we-do-about-wikipedias-porn-problem ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on IPv6
On Jun 2, 2012, at 5:06 AM, Erik Moeller e...@wikimedia.org wrote: Moving towards full IPv6 support is part of our responsibility as a good Internet citizen, and this has been in the works for a long time. It's never been an option not to do this as IPv4 addresses are being exhausted. This is the relavent point. For what it is worth I, who am less inclined to follow technical discussions than other kinds, remember that there was enough talk about approaching IPv6 day last year to feel it was settled that WMF was unprepared to participate at that time would make it happen in 2012. It was either here or on wikitech-l. I am not sure how someone who has strong opinions on the subject would be left unable to follow this when I followed with no such interest. Moe importantly, I don't understand what exactly the objectors see as a better option. No one will fix the scripts until they are broken, it is just the nature of the beast. It seems the whole point of IPv6 day is that no one is very confident about level of breakage of things with IPv6 and no one will be able to gain this confidence until a significant number of sites turn it on and there is not another choice on the matter. Objecting to turning on IPv6 because things will break does not seem to be very informed. This is the point. If anyone doesn't trust that WMF will only make a day of it if the breakage is unmanageable, then they've bigger issues than IPv6. And even still, the sun will rise and we will have a few less IPv4 addresses everyday; there are much better battles to pick. Birgitte SB ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on IPv6
On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 5:12 PM, Erik Moeller e...@wikimedia.org wrote: Hi all, June 6, 2012 is IPv6 Day ( http://www.worldipv6day.org/ ). The goal of this global event is to move more ISPs, equipment manufacturers and web services to permanent adoption of IPv6. We're planning to do limited production testing of IPv6 during the Berlin Hackathon 2012 (June 2-3). Provided that the number of issues we encounter are manageable, we may fully enable IPv6 on IPv6 day, and keep it enabled. Thanks Erik and all who are working on this! It's important work and I'm glad to see us joining the community of sites and organizations who are prepared for this necessity. (Acknowledging the potential issues others have mentioned, I'm also glad to see it while there are still few users who will be using IPv6, so the problems that arise will be much smaller than they would be in the future.) Cheers, Kat -- Your donations keep Wikipedia free: https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate Web: http://www.mindspillage.org Email: k...@wikimedia.org, k...@mindspillage.org (G)AIM, Freenode, gchat, identi.ca, twitter, various social sites: mindspillage ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] TomTom does a Britannica
On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 09:29:19AM -0400, Anthony wrote: I just tried osmand. I can't even figure out how to put in an address. WFM (Works For Me)? Also routing is not mapping. It looks like the android coders could still improve their routing algorithms a bit. As long as you take that into account, it's quite usable. (I always Use Brain(tm) in combination satnav anyway, so I've hardly noticed, myself) Note that OSMAndroid supports multiple online routing providers as well as its own local-CPU algorithm. YMMV (literally! ;) sincerely, Kim Bruning ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Larry Sanger rides again
Whatever one thinks of Larry Sanger's campaign regarding sexual material on Wikipedia or Commons, and I'm not endorsing everything he says, it should be clear from examination that he holds his views sincerely. Personally attacking him along the lines of being malicious and insincere, which is quite false, only adds weight to his critique about (my phrasing) the bunker-mentality culture. -- Seth Finkelstein Consulting Programmer http://sethf.com Infothought blog - http://sethf.com/infothought/blog/ Interview: http://sethf.com/essays/major/greplaw-interview.php ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Larry Sanger rides again
On 2 June 2012 23:33, Seth Finkelstein se...@sethf.com wrote: Whatever one thinks of Larry Sanger's campaign regarding sexual material on Wikipedia or Commons, and I'm not endorsing everything he says, it should be clear from examination that he holds his views sincerely. Personally attacking him along the lines of being malicious and insincere, which is quite false, only adds weight to his critique about (my phrasing) the bunker-mentality culture. I don't doubt that he is entirely sincere in holding that opinion, but there is a difference between holding a opinion and expressing that opinion. I think he's expressing the opinion because he is bitter and it's a convenient criticism for him to make. I don't think he holds the opinion strongly enough that he would be blogging about it if he weren't looking for something about Wikipedia to criticise. I'm really not interested in discussing Larry Sanger, though, so this will be my last email on the subject. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
