Re: [Wikimedia-l] הודעה על מינוי מתאמת פעילות
Le 2013-08-03 23:20, Itzik Edri a écrit : Oops! Sent it from my phone to the Wikimedia-L instead to our chapter mailing list. Sorry about that :) No problem, it's always nice to see language diversity. The real shame is that we miss languages courses on Wikiversities. But as Nicole already mention, we hired a new ED, Michal Lester Levy, she not yet subscribed this mailing list as I didn't planned to announce it publicly yet and what to give her some time to enter the job before jumping to our international mailing lists, but oops, it happened. Anyway, I will give summary of the email that I intended to sent to our chapter member: Michal will starts to work with us on Sep 1st. Prior to joining Wikimedia, Michal served as regional director and head of two national programs at JDC’s Centers for Young Adults (CYA). In this capacity, she was responsible for all the activities of all 10 CYAs in the central region of Israel. Previously, within the scope of her activities at the JDC, Michal established and managed The Penni and Stephen Weinberg Center for Lay Leadership. The center is the first-of-its-kind in Israel being dedicated to lay leadership growth and change. She serves as a board member at Jindas, the nonprofit organization for urban renewal in the city of Lod. Earlier, she served as co-chair of ”Women to their Bodies”, a women's NGO working to promote comprehensive social change in regard of the health attitudes of Israeli women, both Jewish and Arab. Good luck to Michal and good luck to Wikimedia Israel :) 2013/8/3 Nicole Ebber nicole.eb...@wikimedia.de Congratulations, Wikimedia Israel! So good to hear that you hired a new ED. And welcome to the Wikimedia universe, Michal. Looking forward to working with you. Cheers, Nicole 2013/8/3 Itzik Edri it...@infra.co.il: שלום חברים, קודם כל הרשו לי להתנצל על אי הזמינות שלי לחלקכם בזמן האחרון. בחיים הפרטיים, העסקיים, וגם בחיי העמותה, אני נמצא תחת עומס גדול (חלקו גם נובע מהעדכון הבא) ואני מנסה לתמרן בין כל המחוייבויות. במהלך השבת ניסתי להשיב לכל האימיילים הפתוחים, אם לא התייחסתי עד כה לנושא פתוח שהעלתם - בבקשה תזכרו אותי. החודש החליט הוועד, לאחר תהליך מאוד ארוך של ריאיונות על מינוי מנהלת פעילות חדשה לעמותה. תכירו את מיכל לסטר לוי. מיכל, תושבת תל אביב, שימשה עד כה כמנהלת תחום צעירים בג'וינט ישראל - במסגרת זו אחראית מיכל על אזור מרכז של מרכזי הצעירים ומשמשת גם כמנהלת תחום קשרי עסקים וקהילה. קודם לכן, גם במסגרת הג'וינט, ניהלה את המרכז למנהיגות מתנדבת עש פני וסטיבן ויינברג - מרכז המוביל בשינוי תרבות ארגונית במגזר השלישי בישראל על ידי שינוי וחיזוק הסטטוס של ועדים מנהלים בעמותות. מיכל פעילה בהתנדבות גם בקבוצת מעש - התארגנות אזרחית הפועלת להתחדשות השירות הציבורי והיתה במשך 6 שנים יור עמותת נשים לגופן, עמותה המובילה שינוי בתפיסת בריאות, הגוף והמיניות בישראל. מיכל תיכנס בפועל לתפקידה ב-1.9, עם סיום תקופת עבודתה בג'וינט. עד אז תמשיך מיכל להיפגש עם חברי הוועד ובעלי תפקידים מרכזיים כחלק מהחפיפה שלה לתפקיד ותלווה את הוועד בבניית תכנית העבודה ל-2014 שתוגש ל-FDC ב-1.10. מיכל זמינה באימייל שלה, mles...@wikimedia.org.il ובטלפון 050-8996046. אך אני מבקש כי תמנעו מלעלות נושאי עבודה איתה עד אשר תחל בפועל לעבוד. אנו מאמינים במיכל, שהביעה עניין ורצון רב להשתלב בפעילות העמותה, ומקווים יחד איתה לקדם הרבה נושאים מנהלתיים ותפעוליים בעמותה שעד כה הוקפאו עקב חוסר זמן ומגבלת כוח אדם מקצועי. בהצלחה מיכל - Sent from my mobile device. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe -- Nicole Ebber International Affairs Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Obentrautstr. 72 | 10963 Berlin Tel. +49 30 219158 26-0 http://wikimedia.de Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe -- Association Culture-Libre http://www.culture-libre.org/ ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
[Wikimedia-l] The Wikinewsie Group Newsletter: Edition 2, August 6, 2013
The second edition of The Wikinewsie Group Newsletter is officially published at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/The_Wikinewsie_Group/Newsletter/2 This edition includes information on GLAM, Education, research activities, technical news, local project news and our original reporting efforts across all projects. To subscribe to our on wiki version, please list your name at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/The_Wikinewsie_Group/Newsletter . Newsletter text below. Sincerely, Laura Hale The Wikinewsie Group News There is less to report, as the group spent time focusing on behind-the-scenes aspects of obtaining thematic organization recognition. Aff-Comm application status updates - The Wikinewsie Group answered several questions from the Affiliations Committee at Talk:The Wikinewsie Group/Bylawshttp://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:The_Wikinewsie_Group/Bylaws . Education and GLAM - Members are working to create educational materials to use at training workshops in English and Spanish. Current print training materials include a one page guide to original sport reporting on English English Wikinewshttp://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikinews_Original_Sport_Reporting.pdf , a one page guide to conducting multilingual interviewshttp://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Conducting_multilingual_interviews_for_wikinews.pdf , a guide to getting photo essays publishedhttp://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Photo_Essays_for_Wikinews.pdf and a guide to writing for English Wikinewshttp://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikinews_Guide.pdf . - The University of Wollongong class participation on English *Wikinews* is winding up as the semester ended. It looks like a new semester may be starting soon. The instructor has created a presentation about the class on *Wikinews* that can be found at StudentsInWikinewshttp://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:StudentsInWikinews.ogv . - A member of The Wikinewsie Group met with a GLAM partner about the value of English *Wikinews* and Wikinoticias for freely sharing knowledge about culture. Technical updates - Pi zero has moved to a new phase in the development of an improved reviewing tool for English *Wikinews*. - Gryllida is working on the development of a tool to make translating material from one project to another easier. The new beta *wmtrans* translation tool here https://tools.wmflabs.org/wmtran/, which you can use to translate*Wikipedia* and *Wikinews* articles from one language to another. Its difference from the Meta translation tools is include the the ability to translate an article as a whole, per-paragraph, and add new paragraphs if desired; a dictionary box for you to look up geographical names without loading entire Wikipedia pages; and whole-page translation philosophy instead of translating by parts. The tool also features a multilingual interface; you can add new sections to data.inihttps://tools.wmflabs.org/wmtran/data.ini to add your own. You are encouraged to send them, and bug reports, to Gryllida http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Gryllida. - Discussions have been going on behind the scenes about the potential for The Wikinewsie Group to support the technical aspects for Wikinews project development following suggestions on Wikimedia-l that this would be a place chapters could demonstrate leadership potential and work with the Foundation. There are currently a number of developers active in the Wikinews community. Research - Given feedback by a member of the Wikimedia Foundation Board (Samuel Klien http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Sj) that the English language project should consider content import from other free news sources as a way of increasing community participation, content output and traffic, research was done inside the community using another language project as a baseline to determine the potential impact in terms of achieving those goals. A copy of this research can be found at Research:Wikinews Content Import Analysishttp://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:Wikinews_Content_Import_Analysis. In a nutshell, the findings are: content import did *not* result in increased community output or increased community size. Content import also resulted in fewer page views per published article. Content import was not successful at achieving a positive community or traffic related impact. - A tiny piece of research done examining relative article popularity by year on English *Wikinews* can found at Article rank and article datehttp://en.wikinews.org/wiki/User:LauraHale/Article_rank_and_article_date. More in-depth research along these lines may produce interesting results. Across the languages - Over on Italian Wikinews http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/it: on July 25, they hit 30,000 total pages. - English Wikinews completed elections for their Arbitration
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Visual Editor temporary opt-out
On Sun, Aug 4, 2013 at 7:07 PM, Todd Allen toddmal...@gmail.com wrote: I realize this was brought up a couple of weeks ago and I apologize for the late response on this, but it was just recently brought to my attention that the VE opt-out was intended to be only temporary. Firstly: Currently, as per the overwhelming consensus on en.wikipedia at least, VE needs to be opt-in, not opt-out. It's not even stable or usable to the beta stage, but it might be ready for some early user tests. Even beta testing, however, should only be opt-in. Opt-out should only occur once the product is feature-complete and has no (yes, zero) known major flaws or incomplete features. That means it should be capable of making -any- edit to -any- page, and in the manner that its user would want it to, including parsing, not no-wiki'ing, of wikimarkup, as the community has clearly stated. That aside, it's now come to my attention that the opt-out is meant to last only until the project is out of beta. There are some problems with this. First, your (and by your, I specifically mean the project managers) judgment on project readiness is obviously way off. VE isn't even -in- beta. It's not feature-complete, it's not ready, and it's got massive numbers of known bugs. It could be barely described as ready for alpha. Yet it's being treated as release-ready, such as being released as the default for most users. That calls into serious question the judgment of the project managers on this project. I, and many others, do not trust you to properly determine when this project should be released, as you've already made a hugely premature release of software that wasn't even near ready. Secondly, even if VE worked perfectly, some editors will never be interested in using it. An opt-out clarifies that the development team recognizes a significant group of those editors exists, and will ensure their wishes are respected. Some editors will just want raw-text editing, some will be running bots or scripts that depend on it, some just won't want to change, some will be doing tasks VE has been explicitly noted not to support. All must be respected, and raw editing must remain supported, not be squashed by yet another heavy-handed gesture from the same team that's already made far too many of those. I don't want to hear, in a year or two It works great! Source editing is deprecated and we'll be removing it soon!. And believe me, many of us, me included, expect just that, absent a firm commitment. Thirdly, a confirmation that VE will always include opt-out will clearly notify editors not interested in using it that it will always remain optional, and that source editing will remain supported. Currently, given the ram it through approach by WMF and its technical staff, such trust is severely eroded. A clear statement that You may always opt out of VE would go a long way toward rebuilding it, while You may only opt out while we say you can further erodes that already damaged trust. Please make a clear statement that VE will always have an officially supported opt-out for editors who would like to use it, not only during beta. Regards, Todd Allen This went into my spam-folder, along with other posts to Wikimedia-related lists lately. One quick comment on the content of Todd's e-mail - making VE opt-out is not synonymous with preserving the option to edit in raw text. If I understand correctly, the Edit source button (which is not the opt out) is going to remain. That means any editor, independent of VE status, retains the option to edit in the traditional manner. ~Nathan ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Updates from the WMF Grantmaking department
Anasuya Sengupta, 05/08/2013 01:53: [...] In addition, we are moving our Brazil catalyst program into a ‘Partnership Grant’ model as we did with India last year. I will be sharing more details on this in the next few weeks, but essentially, Partnership Grants will be with significant allied organisations - particularly in the Global South - who support our communities in expanding reach and participation. These grant proposals will go through substantial on wiki review by the local community (for e.g. the Brazilian PT community), and then a short review by the global Wikimedia community. After this, the proposal will be approved (or not) by the Grantmaking team, primarily Asaf Bartov and Anasuya Sengupta. This model is likely to be used sparingly, and only when the opportunities offered by an allied organisation are significant to the growth of a community. We hope that these allies will, after the initial grants through this model, be familiar enough with our movement to apply directly for annual plan grants through the FDC or project grants through the GAC. [...] As for the FDC/annual plan grants, that would require for them to be recognised Wikimedia partner orgs in the new affiliation model, right? Nemo ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Updates from the WMF Grantmaking department
On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 10:53 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.comwrote: As for the FDC/annual plan grants, that would require for them to be recognised Wikimedia partner orgs in the new affiliation model, right? Nemo Unless I am mistaken, it would, yeah. I'm assuming that Anasuya is hoping that they would be able to achieve affcom recognition in their partnership grant funded period of operation so that they could apply for FDC funding going forward. Kevin Gorman ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
[Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] WMF Board agenda for Hong Kong meeting
Hi all, The Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees is meeting in Hong Kong on August 7-8, 2013, before our annual Wikimania conference.[1] Please find below the Board's tentative agenda: == Wednesday, August 7, 2013 == * Greetings and introductions * Committee Reports ** Audit Committee Report ** Governance Committee Report ** Human Resources Committee Report * Executive Session * Term limits * FDC update * Board evaluation and retreat * Executive Director Search Update * Discussion on the Advisory Board == Thursday, August 8, 2013 == * Welcoming the newly elected trustees * Trustee Officer and Committee Selection * Transition Committee update * Wikimania Committee * Strategy Discussion * House keeping resolutions * Executive Session == Friday, August 9, 2013 == * Board Governance Committee Meeting [1] http://wikimania2013.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_page -- Geoff Brigham General Counsel Secretary of the Board Wikimedia Foundation ___ Please note: all replies sent to this mailing list will be immediately directed to Wikimedia-l, the public mailing list of the Wikimedia community. For more information about Wikimedia-l: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l ___ WikimediaAnnounce-l mailing list wikimediaannounc...@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaannounce-l ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] WMF Board agenda for Hong Kong meeting
Geoff Brigham, 05/08/2013 16:26: == Thursday, August 8, 2013 == * Welcoming the newly elected trustees [...] So the new trustees enter in office only on the second day? Nemo ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
[Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Wikimedia engineering July 2013 report
Hi, The report covering Wikimedia engineering activities in July 2013 is now available. Wiki version: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_engineering_report/2013/July Blog version: https://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/08/05/engineering-july-2013-report/ We're also proposing a shorter, simpler and translatable version of this report that does not assume specialized technical knowledge: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_engineering_report/2013/July/summary Below is the full HTML text of the report. As always, feedback is appreciated on the usefulness of the report and its summary, and on how to improve them. -- Major news in July include: - Givinghttps://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/07/01/visualeditor-beta-rollout/more editors an easy-to-use editing interface (the VisualEditor) on several Wikipedias - Improving language support on our sites via summer interns' projectshttps://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/07/23/updates-from-the-language-engineering-google-summer-of-code-projects/and easier configuration optionshttps://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/07/01/universal-language-selector-uls-deployed-on-more-than-150-wikis/, and askinghttps://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/07/31/translate-ui-wikipedias-visual-editor/for help translating the VisualEditor interface - Enablinghttps://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/07/25/edit-wikipedia-on-the-go/users to edit our sites from mobile devices, like phones and tablets, and announcinghttps://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/07/31/cooper-ux-bootcamp-wikipedia-mobile-editing/a future user experience bootcamp focusing on mobile editing - Finishinghttps://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/07/23/pywikipediabot-moving-to-git-on-july-26/our transition from keeping source code in Subversion to storing it in Git - Launchinghttps://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/07/25/aircel-partnership-brings-wikipedia-zero-to-india/a Wikipedia Zero partnership with Aircel, giving mobile subscribers in India the potential to access Wikipedia at no data cost - Updatinghttps://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/08/01/future-https-wikimedia-projects/the Wikimedia movement on how we intend to protect our users' privacy with HTTPS - Signinghttps://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/07/26/future-third-party-releases-mediawiki/a contract with longtime MediaWiki contributors to manage MediaWiki releases for the open source community - Explaininghttps://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/07/03/wikimedia-foundation-fixes-software-bugs/how we find and gather software problems and deliver the fixes to users *Note: We're also providing a shorter, simpler and translatable version of this reporthttps://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_engineering_report/2013/July/summarythat does not assume specialized technical knowledge. * Personnel Work with us https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Work_with_us Are you looking to work for Wikimedia? We have a lot of hiring coming up, and we really love talking to active community members about these roles. - Software Engineer - Fundraisinghttp://hire.jobvite.com/Jobvite/Job.aspx?j=oawpXfwM - Software Engineer - Language Engineeringhttp://hire.jobvite.com/Jobvite/Job.aspx?j=oH3gXfwH - Software Engineer - Multimedia Systemshttp://hire.jobvite.com/Jobvite/Job.aspx?j=oj40Wfw3 - Senior Software Engineer - Platformhttp://hire.jobvite.com/Jobvite/Job.aspx?j=ouLnWfwi - Product Manager - Platformhttp://hire.jobvite.com/Jobvite/Job.aspx?j=o3vtXfwI - Dev-Ops Engineer - SREhttp://hire.jobvite.com/Jobvite/Job.aspx?j=ocLCWfwf - Software Engineer - Editor Engagement Experimentationhttp://hire.jobvite.com/Jobvite/Job.aspx?j=o8NJXfwl - Software Engineer - Editor Engagementhttp://hire.jobvite.com/Jobvite/Job.aspx?j=o6NJXfwj - Director of Program - Mobilehttp://hire.jobvite.com/Jobvite/Job.aspx?j=oGqAXfwn - Front-end Developer - Analyticshttp://hire.jobvite.com/Jobvite/Job.aspx?j=olyGXfwg Announcements - Bryan Davis joined the Platform Engineering team as a Senior Software Engineer, working generally on backend software issues and starting off supporting multimedia (announcementhttp://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2013-July/070923.html ). - C. Scott Ananian joined the Parsoid team as a Senior Features Engineer (announcementhttp://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2013-July/070316.html ). - Kenan Wang joined the Product team as Product Manager for Mobile ( announcementhttps://twitter.com/wikimediaatwork/status/359473872527044609 ). Technical Operations *Site infrastructure* Lots of Puppethttps://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/02/01/from-duct-tape-to-puppets/refactoring work got done this month, including considerable reorganization of the puppet masters. Several manifests have been moved into modules, but completing this project will take many months. *Data Dumps https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/WMF_Projects/Data_Dumps* The English Wikipedia dumps ran out of our Ashburn data
Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] WMF Board agenda for Hong Kong meeting
Hi No, they are observers on the first day and will be present. Just like Kat will be an observer on the first day. We have always done this, but the Wikimania meeting was always one day, so the transition took place somewhere in the middle of the day. This time the break is more obvious, thats all. Jan-Bart de Vreede Vice Chair Wikimedia Board of Trustees On Aug 6, 2013, at 2:27 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.com wrote: Geoff Brigham, 05/08/2013 16:26: == Thursday, August 8, 2013 == * Welcoming the newly elected trustees [...] So the new trustees enter in office only on the second day? Nemo ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] WMF Board agenda for Hong Kong meeting
Its a bit early in jet lag time , that should of course Kat will be an observer on the SECOND day :) Jan-Bart On Aug 6, 2013, at 9:10 AM, Jan-Bart de Vreede jdevre...@wikimedia.org wrote: Hi No, they are observers on the first day and will be present. Just like Kat will be an observer on the first day. We have always done this, but the Wikimania meeting was always one day, so the transition took place somewhere in the middle of the day. This time the break is more obvious, thats all. Jan-Bart de Vreede Vice Chair Wikimedia Board of Trustees On Aug 6, 2013, at 2:27 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.com wrote: Geoff Brigham, 05/08/2013 16:26: == Thursday, August 8, 2013 == * Welcoming the newly elected trustees [...] So the new trustees enter in office only on the second day? Nemo ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Let's have the courage to sit down and talk about VisualEditor
Erik, I don't agree with everything you're saying here, but I for one appreciate the candour and openness you're displaying in this discussion, not to mention a willingness to act on ideas from the community. You've already implemented what my suggestion was going to be (sticking the word Beta in the tab so people know what they're getting), so there's not much left except to say thanks and I appreciate it. Cheers, Craig Franklin On 2 August 2013 03:05, Erik Moeller e...@wikimedia.org wrote: On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 9:36 AM, Kevin Wayne Williams kwwilli...@kwwilliams.com wrote: The editor was able to change a 4 to a 5 in an existing table, that's true. Could that editor add a row? No. Add a column? No. Delete a row or a column? No. Are all of those operations part of the bare minimum feature set for table editing? Absolutely. No, I don't agree -- it's actually totally fine to say for now if you want to add rows etc., use the source editor. And as you know, once you start going into complex table manipulations, the product becomes a _lot_ more complex, because you need to be able to do so in a way that matches existing expectations of how a table should be structured, which vary by page (some augmented by templates, some using various inline CSS approaches, etc.). However, I do agree that we should do a better job communicating VE's limitations (they are listed pretty clearly in a bunch of places, but obviously you're not going to look if you're a new editor). This is why I think the approach of adding VE as a second tab with a clear beta label and an explanation when you open it is a reasonable way forward. It's not dirty diffs: the articles get converted to gibberish on saves: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Big_Time_Rush_episodesdiff=565906957oldid=565898974 Wholesale destruction of articles is *not* a dirty diff. The use of dirty diff was not intended to minimize that - we've seen destructive changes with VE, and we take them very seriously. Like I said, cleanly roundtripping has always been a top priority. The way we've prioritized them is by handcoding actual diffs we see in the real world and fixing things that occur frequently first. I also like the approach of shielding page content if needed. I just don't agree that providing a clean experience for _editing_ that type of masterfully template-constructed table is a fair expectation for a first release. You're right that copy/paste is badly broken across tabs, and still pretty broken even inside tabs, and we should have tried harder for the first release. But if I have time later today, I'll make you a video of how badly broken and slow copy/paste is in Google Docs across tabs, which has been around for many years now and seen a huge amount of world-wide usage -- not to even mention other less widely used web-based RTEs. Again, I'm not minimizing it -- just saying that what look like obvious easy issues often turns out to be a very complex problem that you end up being better served iterating on in the real world. What I do agree with is that we need to now make a change to the user experience to acknowledge the legitimate issues with the current experience, dial back the firehose, and more prominently inform users about VE's limitations. Erik -- Erik Möller VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Visual Editor temporary opt-out
Todd Allen wrote: [comments about VisualEditor] Hi Todd. Thank you for writing this e-mail. Unfortunately I don't have a particularly unified reply to write here, but I can offer five thoughts. Regarding the specific issue you mention (the labeling of the user preference), I think there should be at least a little recognition that much more than half of the battle was getting this user preference re-added, supported for future VisualEditor releases, and appropriately positioned under the Editing user preferences tab rather than the Gadgets user preferences tab. Now that we've made forward progress on those fronts, re-labeling the user preference is a simple matter of editing the page MediaWiki:Visualeditor-preference-betatempdisable. Broadly, looking at your e-mail, I wonder what your thoughts are on the extent to which one wiki, even the golden goose, can dictate Wikimedia Foundation product engineering and development. While the English Wikipedia is certainly a formidable force, do you think it should be capable, through an on-wiki discussion, of setting or changing high-level priorities and their implementation strategies? If so, why and how? I started https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:VisualEditor/Improvements to discuss actionable improvements that can be made right now related to VisualEditor and its deployment. Please participate. :-) And I started https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/VisualEditor/Complaints to examine the pattern of complaints related to VisualEditor. Finally, and somewhat related to the complaints page, I've been thinking lately about the British and the Irish and the nature of insurgencies. I believe the VisualEditor team is now viewed by many on the English Wikipedia (and other wikis) as an occupying force. Consequently, this has created an insurgency composed of long-time editors. This isn't meant to be hyperbolic: nobody is rioting in the streets or planning warfare (yet). However, the anger felt by many in the editing community toward the VisualEditor team is very real and very worrying, as is the seemingly heavy-handed way in which VisualEditor has been deployed. Just a few weeks ago, VisualEditor was receiving accolades for the way in which it had been slowly and thoughtfully developed and deployed. However, seemingly arbitrary deadlines and a few key bad decisions have greatly hurt it. The wounds are deep, but it remains to be seen whether they will be fatal. MZMcBride ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] WMF Board agenda for Hong Kong meeting
Jan-Bart de Vreede, 06/08/2013 03:14: Its a bit early in jet lag time , that should of course Kat will be an observer on the SECOND day Ah, ok, I was twice as confused after reading. :) Thanks for the reply. Nemo ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Visual Editor temporary opt-out
Op 2013/08/05 19:35, MZMcBride schreef: Finally, and somewhat related to the complaints page, I've been thinking lately about the British and the Irish and the nature of insurgencies. I believe the VisualEditor team is now viewed by many on the English Wikipedia (and other wikis) as an occupying force. Consequently, this has created an insurgency composed of long-time editors. This isn't meant to be hyperbolic: nobody is rioting in the streets or planning warfare (yet). However, the anger felt by many in the editing community toward the VisualEditor team is very real and very worrying, as is the seemingly heavy-handed way in which VisualEditor has been deployed. Just a few weeks ago, VisualEditor was receiving accolades for the way in which it had been slowly and thoughtfully developed and deployed. However, seemingly arbitrary deadlines and a few key bad decisions have greatly hurt it. The wounds are deep, but it remains to be seen whether they will be fatal. I notice you used the phrase seemingly heavy-handed above. Do you truly believe that this was not *actually* heavy-handed? KWW ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
