Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia and the politics of encryption

[Brion Vibber]

Tim sets out some excellent points; in particular it's a good reminder that
there is a continuum of options.

I've tended to advocate on the protest side of things, but I would like to
posit another option: we don't have to operate *everything* under the
auspices of Wikimedia Foundation, Inc (a Florida not-for-profit
corporation).

Our organizational goal is not "make Wikipedia.org a popular web site in
all countries", it's to make knowledge available to everyone in their own
language.

I would love to see Wikipedia content made available in China on Chinese
infrastructure operated by a Chinese organization, with total ability to
determine their own security and censorship policies.

"But that's what Baidu did and we hate them!" you say?

We could work *with* such an organization to coordinate, share content,
etc, without compromising basic web security for our sites or giving up our
liberal content policies on Wikipedia "proper".

I know this runs counter to our group tendency to centralization but we
should remember that Open Content is *meant* to be distributed and
redistributable. Centralization is often convenient but shouldn't be
mandatory.

-- brion
 On Sep 3, 2013 8:22 PM, "Tim Starling"  wrote:

> On 04/09/13 05:38, Terry Chay wrote:
> > This part of the discussion has strayed a bit far from the politics
> > of encryption. ;-)
> >
> > Not that it doesn't have value, but if I can bring it back on-topic
> > for a moment…
> >
> > The gist of the HTTPS issues is that it's simply not an engineering
> > discussion, it's a political one.
>
> Yes, obviously, hence the subject line.
>
> > It's important to outline what our choices are and
> > the consequences of those choices, and derive consensus on what the
> > right choice is going forward, as it is clear what we have now[1]
> > is a temporary band-aid.[2]
>
> I don't think it is clear. We have a variety of options open to us, on
> a spectrum of appeasement versus protest. From the former to the
> latter, we have:
>
> 1. Make ourselves subject to Chinese law and do what they tell us to
> (i.e. open a datacentre in China).
> 2. Use a technical setup which implicitly cooperates with their
> existing system for censorship of foreign content (i.e. use
> unencrypted HTTP).
> 3. Use a technical setup which is inherently incompatible with the
> existing system of censorship, thus forcing the Chinese government to
> block us (i.e. use HTTPS).
>
> I don't see option 2 as a band-aid, I see it as a moderate path
> between appeasement and protest, which allows us to remain popular in
> China without explicitly supporting censorship, with minimal risk to
> our staff. Of course, it has its down sides.
>
> None of the three options are without risk to our users. Probably the
> most risky for our users is option 3, which encourages users to
> circumvent censorship, in violation of Chinese law. It turns our users
> into activists.
>
> There's nothing inherently wrong with activism, but I think we have an
> ethical responsibility to be fully aware of the risks we are
> encouraging our users to take, and also to understand the benefits
> which are likely to come from successful activism, so that we can
> decide whether the action we are inciting is rational and prudent.
>
> -- Tim Starling
>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia and the politics of encryption

[David Gerard]

On 4 September 2013 15:46, Brion Vibber  wrote:

> "But that's what Baidu did and we hate them!" you say?



AIUI our quibble with Baidu was that they didn't respect the licenses.
A suitable license on the content and it'd all be fine. Did we ever
get anywhere with that?


- d.

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia and the politics of encryption

[Federico Leva (Nemo)]

David Gerard, 04/09/2013 16:52:

On 4 September 2013 15:46, Brion Vibber  wrote:


"But that's what Baidu did and we hate them!" you say?




AIUI our quibble with Baidu was that they didn't respect the licenses.
A suitable license on the content and it'd all be fine. Did we ever
get anywhere with that?


The recent comparisons between Baidu and Wikipedia which popped up 
around Wikimania pointed out that Baidu is mainly a parking lot of 
copyright violations and self-promotion copied from all over the web, so 
I doubt they'd be able to use or apply any licensing scheme even if they 
wanted.


Nemo

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia and the politics of encryption

[Erik Moeller]

On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 7:46 AM, Brion Vibber  wrote:

> I would love to see Wikipedia content made available in China on Chinese
> infrastructure operated by a Chinese organization, with total ability to
> determine their own security and censorship policies.
>
> "But that's what Baidu did and we hate them!" you say?
>
> We could work *with* such an organization to coordinate, share content,
> etc, without compromising basic web security for our sites or giving up our
> liberal content policies on Wikipedia "proper".

I don't buy the argument. Last time I checked, Hudong (now just
"Baike") and Baidu Baike were the main wiki-like encyclopedias
operating out of and serving mainland China. Both use non-free
licensing terms, and both are subject to local censorship policies and
practices. That may include turning over contributors if they post
content that's deemed to be problematic by local authorities.

At least on the surface, the projects are successful, with millions of
articles and lots of traffic. I have no idea what the quality of the
content is, but looking at an article like DNA, I'm guessing it
provides useful value to its readers:

http://www.baike.com/wiki/DNA&prd=button_doc_jinru

Where they are failing to do so, they can improve, if necessary by
copying Wikipedia content. But the one thing that they _cannot_
provide, and that a neutral encyclopedia _must_ provide, is precisely
information of the kind that the Chinese government would censor.
Neutral information about people, politics and history, irrespective
of whether that information afflicts a comfortable bureaucrat
somewhere.

I would posit a different argument. The problem of providing basic
information about any subject _is_ being solved for by local
information providers. China isn't some backwater waiting for us to
educate them about physics and disease control. The problem of
providing a neutral, uncensored encyclopedia in the Chinese language,
on the other hand, isn't being solved for by anyone but us. The answer
is not to water down our security or partner with local information
providers that allow censorship and are willing to turn over user
data. It's to find ways to get that information to people, including
the bits they'd rather have people not see.

Erik

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[Wikimedia-l] Please, let's save the Wikipedia - from itself

[Rui Correia]

Greetings to All

Let me start by saying that I don't do much here at the WP, not compared to
people who make hundreds of edits a week. I would love to, have a long list
of "to-do", but unfortunately time is not on my side.

In my limited involvemet here, I have seen many a good editor leave the
project. Mostly, people leave because they can't take it anymore having to
fight the 'blocks' of defenders that coalesce around certain topics.

In itself, though not very healthy, such blocks forming around topis is
fine. What is not fine is that if any issue gets referred to a higher
process for a resolution, it is often the same people grouping of people
previously involved in disputes on the same topic who come to the
resolution forum to issue a decision. However, it is always the 'outsider'
that loses. He gets acused of everything under the sun, and gets 'good
advice' from supposedly neutral editors, urging him to calm down, to temper
his language etc. It is like trying to point out that the earth is round at
a monthly meetng of the fat-earthers. That is not healthy and is making the
WP processes look like a kangaroo court run by a cabal.

And I expect pretty much the same reaction to this email.

I pointed out in an ealier email to this list the difficulty that one
encounters when you include something negative about certain big
corporations. I was stoned and made to feel that I was wrong and everbody
else was right. The reaction was tantamount to a chorus of "yes, we know
there are problems, but don't say it out loud, someone might hear you!".

Let's for argument's say that I was wrong. But - more importantantly - was
anything done to investigate what I was saying? What if there are legions
out there paid to sanitise the pages of big corporations? And we know that
they exist, and that WP has taken up the issue as in here,
http://nick-xomba-ceo.xomba.com/microsoft_accused_of_paying_blogger_to_alter_wikipedia_articles

I made a silly remark on a Talk page about the choice of the word
"downgrade" to refer to people using Windows 8 who wanted to go back to XP.
For a failed product, by Microsoft's own admission, going back to XP is an
upgrade, going back to sanity, not a downgrade.

I was first accused of trolling, then something else, then of offending the
entire community of users of Windows 8. The editor who is adamant - not the
first time - to purge ant-MS from the talkpage violated the 3RR, but
nothing gets done about it. I reported the 3RR, and it was immediately
closed, labelled as being relatiatory. There is a backlog of issues on that
page, but my entry was closed within minutes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Edit_warring#User:Codename_Lisa_reported_by_User:Rui_Gabriel_Correia_.28Result:_Closed.29

It was closed, claiming that it was already being addressed elsewhere.

So, I too will consider my stay here. Like I said right at the top, I don't
do much here, so I am certain I will not even be missed. I edit in eight
languages, small little bits here and there. I participated in a number of
initiaves on the development of Chapters in Africa and am happy to see that
things are moving. I had the honour and privilege to meet Jimmy Wales in
South Africa and to discuss a few things relating to WP in Africa.

So, it is time to wind down anr retire into a corner. I am busy with a
novel, I am sure that is where I should invest my time and energy.

Sincere regards to all, happy editing

Rui Correia






-- 
_
Rui Correia
Advocacy, Human Rights, Media and Language Work Consultant
Bridge to Angola - Angola Liaison Consultant

Mobile Number in South Africa +27 74 425 4186
Número de Telemóvel na África do Sul +27 74 425 4186
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Please, let's save the Wikipedia - from itself

[Lars Gardenius]

I think you are completely right and it is a big problem in the Wiki-world that 
is not being addressed by anyone in a leading position.

Regards,
Lars Gardenius





 Von: Rui Correia 
An: Wikimedia Mailing List  
Gesendet: 23:08 Mittwoch, 4.September 2013
Betreff: [Wikimedia-l] Please, let's save the Wikipedia - from itself
 

Greetings to All

Let me start by saying that I don't do much here at the WP, not compared to
people who make hundreds of edits a week. I would love to, have a long list
of "to-do", but unfortunately time is not on my side.

In my limited involvemet here, I have seen many a good editor leave the
project. Mostly, people leave because they can't take it anymore having to
fight the 'blocks' of defenders that coalesce around certain topics.

In itself, though not very healthy, such blocks forming around topis is
fine. What is not fine is that if any issue gets referred to a higher
process for a resolution, it is often the same people grouping of people
previously involved in disputes on the same topic who come to the
resolution forum to issue a decision. However, it is always the 'outsider'
that loses. He gets acused of everything under the sun, and gets 'good
advice' from supposedly neutral editors, urging him to calm down, to temper
his language etc. It is like trying to point out that the earth is round at
a monthly meetng of the fat-earthers. That is not healthy and is making the
WP processes look like a kangaroo court run by a cabal.

And I expect pretty much the same reaction to this email.

I pointed out in an ealier email to this list the difficulty that one
encounters when you include something negative about certain big
corporations. I was stoned and made to feel that I was wrong and everbody
else was right. The reaction was tantamount to a chorus of "yes, we know
there are problems, but don't say it out loud, someone might hear you!".

Let's for argument's say that I was wrong. But - more importantantly - was
anything done to investigate what I was saying? What if there are legions
out there paid to sanitise the pages of big corporations? And we know that
they exist, and that WP has taken up the issue as in here,
http://nick-xomba-ceo.xomba.com/microsoft_accused_of_paying_blogger_to_alter_wikipedia_articles

I made a silly remark on a Talk page about the choice of the word
"downgrade" to refer to people using Windows 8 who wanted to go back to XP.
For a failed product, by Microsoft's own admission, going back to XP is an
upgrade, going back to sanity, not a downgrade.

I was first accused of trolling, then something else, then of offending the
entire community of users of Windows 8. The editor who is adamant - not the
first time - to purge ant-MS from the talkpage violated the 3RR, but
nothing gets done about it. I reported the 3RR, and it was immediately
closed, labelled as being relatiatory. There is a backlog of issues on that
page, but my entry was closed within minutes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Edit_warring#User:Codename_Lisa_reported_by_User:Rui_Gabriel_Correia_.28Result:_Closed.29

It was closed, claiming that it was already being addressed elsewhere.

So, I too will consider my stay here. Like I said right at the top, I don't
do much here, so I am certain I will not even be missed. I edit in eight
languages, small little bits here and there. I participated in a number of
initiaves on the development of Chapters in Africa and am happy to see that
things are moving. I had the honour and privilege to meet Jimmy Wales in
South Africa and to discuss a few things relating to WP in Africa.

So, it is time to wind down anr retire into a corner. I am busy with a
novel, I am sure that is where I should invest my time and energy.

Sincere regards to all, happy editing

Rui Correia






-- 
_
Rui Correia
Advocacy, Human Rights, Media and Language Work Consultant
Bridge to Angola - Angola Liaison Consultant

Mobile Number in South Africa +27 74 425 4186
Número de Telemóvel na África do Sul +27 74 425 4186
___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Please, let's save the Wikipedia - from itself

[Fred Bauder]

It is addressed but by a rather complicated and demanding process. See
Wikipedia:Dispute resolution. Not really workable for new users who bump
up against well-established users who have bad habits, or have learned
that nasty behavior pays off in being able to control content.

Fred

> I think you are completely right and it is a big problem in the
> Wiki-world that is not being addressed by anyone in a leading position.
>
> Regards,
> Lars Gardenius
>
>
>
>
> 
>  Von: Rui Correia 
> An: Wikimedia Mailing List 
> Gesendet: 23:08 Mittwoch, 4.September 2013
> Betreff: [Wikimedia-l] Please, let's save the Wikipedia - from itself
>
>
> Greetings to All
>
> Let me start by saying that I don't do much here at the WP, not compared
> to
> people who make hundreds of edits a week. I would love to, have a long
> list
> of "to-do", but unfortunately time is not on my side.
>
> In my limited involvemet here, I have seen many a good editor leave the
> project. Mostly, people leave because they can't take it anymore having
> to
> fight the 'blocks' of defenders that coalesce around certain topics.
>
> In itself, though not very healthy, such blocks forming around topis is
> fine. What is not fine is that if any issue gets referred to a higher
> process for a resolution, it is often the same people grouping of people
> previously involved in disputes on the same topic who come to the
> resolution forum to issue a decision. However, it is always the
> 'outsider'
> that loses. He gets acused of everything under the sun, and gets 'good
> advice' from supposedly neutral editors, urging him to calm down, to
> temper
> his language etc. It is like trying to point out that the earth is round
> at
> a monthly meetng of the fat-earthers. That is not healthy and is making
> the
> WP processes look like a kangaroo court run by a cabal.
>
> And I expect pretty much the same reaction to this email.
>
> I pointed out in an ealier email to this list the difficulty that one
> encounters when you include something negative about certain big
> corporations. I was stoned and made to feel that I was wrong and everbody
> else was right. The reaction was tantamount to a chorus of "yes, we know
> there are problems, but don't say it out loud, someone might hear you!".
>
> Let's for argument's say that I was wrong. But - more importantantly -
> was
> anything done to investigate what I was saying? What if there are legions
> out there paid to sanitise the pages of big corporations? And we know
> that
> they exist, and that WP has taken up the issue as in here,
> http://nick-xomba-ceo.xomba.com/microsoft_accused_of_paying_blogger_to_alter_wikipedia_articles
>
> I made a silly remark on a Talk page about the choice of the word
> "downgrade" to refer to people using Windows 8 who wanted to go back to
> XP.
> For a failed product, by Microsoft's own admission, going back to XP is
> an
> upgrade, going back to sanity, not a downgrade.
>
> I was first accused of trolling, then something else, then of offending
> the
> entire community of users of Windows 8. The editor who is adamant - not
> the
> first time - to purge ant-MS from the talkpage violated the 3RR, but
> nothing gets done about it. I reported the 3RR, and it was immediately
> closed, labelled as being relatiatory. There is a backlog of issues on
> that
> page, but my entry was closed within minutes.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Edit_warring#User:Codename_Lisa_reported_by_User:Rui_Gabriel_Correia_.28Result:_Closed.29
>
> It was closed, claiming that it was already being addressed elsewhere.
>
> So, I too will consider my stay here. Like I said right at the top, I
> don't
> do much here, so I am certain I will not even be missed. I edit in eight
> languages, small little bits here and there. I participated in a number
> of
> initiaves on the development of Chapters in Africa and am happy to see
> that
> things are moving. I had the honour and privilege to meet Jimmy Wales in
> South Africa and to discuss a few things relating to WP in Africa.
>
> So, it is time to wind down anr retire into a corner. I am busy with a
> novel, I am sure that is where I should invest my time and energy.
>
> Sincere regards to all, happy editing
>
> Rui Correia
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> _
> Rui Correia
> Advocacy, Human Rights, Media and Language Work Consultant
> Bridge to Angola - Angola Liaison Consultant
>
> Mobile Number in South Africa +27 74 425 4186
> Número de Telemóvel na África do Sul +27 74 425 4186
> ___
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Please, let's save the Wikipedia - from itself

[Rui Correia]

Thanks, Lars

Much appreciated.

Regards,

Rui


On 4 September 2013 23:35, Lars Gardenius  wrote:

> I think you are completely right and it is a big problem in the Wiki-world
> that is not being addressed by anyone in a leading position.
>
> Regards,
> Lars Gardenius
>
>
>
>
> 
>  Von: Rui Correia 
> An: Wikimedia Mailing List 
> Gesendet: 23:08 Mittwoch, 4.September 2013
> Betreff: [Wikimedia-l] Please, let's save the Wikipedia - from itself
>
>
> Greetings to All
>
> Let me start by saying that I don't do much here at the WP, not compared to
> people who make hundreds of edits a week. I would love to, have a long list
> of "to-do", but unfortunately time is not on my side.
>
> In my limited involvemet here, I have seen many a good editor leave the
> project. Mostly, people leave because they can't take it anymore having to
> fight the 'blocks' of defenders that coalesce around certain topics.
>
> In itself, though not very healthy, such blocks forming around topis is
> fine. What is not fine is that if any issue gets referred to a higher
> process for a resolution, it is often the same people grouping of people
> previously involved in disputes on the same topic who come to the
> resolution forum to issue a decision. However, it is always the 'outsider'
> that loses. He gets acused of everything under the sun, and gets 'good
> advice' from supposedly neutral editors, urging him to calm down, to temper
> his language etc. It is like trying to point out that the earth is round at
> a monthly meetng of the fat-earthers. That is not healthy and is making the
> WP processes look like a kangaroo court run by a cabal.
>
> And I expect pretty much the same reaction to this email.
>
> I pointed out in an ealier email to this list the difficulty that one
> encounters when you include something negative about certain big
> corporations. I was stoned and made to feel that I was wrong and everbody
> else was right. The reaction was tantamount to a chorus of "yes, we know
> there are problems, but don't say it out loud, someone might hear you!".
>
> Let's for argument's say that I was wrong. But - more importantantly - was
> anything done to investigate what I was saying? What if there are legions
> out there paid to sanitise the pages of big corporations? And we know that
> they exist, and that WP has taken up the issue as in here,
>
> http://nick-xomba-ceo.xomba.com/microsoft_accused_of_paying_blogger_to_alter_wikipedia_articles
>
> I made a silly remark on a Talk page about the choice of the word
> "downgrade" to refer to people using Windows 8 who wanted to go back to XP.
> For a failed product, by Microsoft's own admission, going back to XP is an
> upgrade, going back to sanity, not a downgrade.
>
> I was first accused of trolling, then something else, then of offending the
> entire community of users of Windows 8. The editor who is adamant - not the
> first time - to purge ant-MS from the talkpage violated the 3RR, but
> nothing gets done about it. I reported the 3RR, and it was immediately
> closed, labelled as being relatiatory. There is a backlog of issues on that
> page, but my entry was closed within minutes.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Edit_warring#User:Codename_Lisa_reported_by_User:Rui_Gabriel_Correia_.28Result:_Closed.29
>
> It was closed, claiming that it was already being addressed elsewhere.
>
> So, I too will consider my stay here. Like I said right at the top, I don't
> do much here, so I am certain I will not even be missed. I edit in eight
> languages, small little bits here and there. I participated in a number of
> initiaves on the development of Chapters in Africa and am happy to see that
> things are moving. I had the honour and privilege to meet Jimmy Wales in
> South Africa and to discuss a few things relating to WP in Africa.
>
> So, it is time to wind down anr retire into a corner. I am busy with a
> novel, I am sure that is where I should invest my time and energy.
>
> Sincere regards to all, happy editing
>
> Rui Correia
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> _
> Rui Correia
> Advocacy, Human Rights, Media and Language Work Consultant
> Bridge to Angola - Angola Liaison Consultant
>
> Mobile Number in South Africa +27 74 425 4186
> Número de Telemóvel na África do Sul +27 74 425 4186
> ___
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
> ___
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> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 




-- 
_
Rui Correia
Advocacy, Human Rights, Media and Language Work Consultant

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Please, let's save the Wikipedia - from itself

[Rui Correia]

Thanks, Fred

Much appreciated.

Regards,

Rui


On 5 September 2013 01:16, Fred Bauder  wrote:

> It is addressed but by a rather complicated and demanding process. See
> Wikipedia:Dispute resolution. Not really workable for new users who bump
> up against well-established users who have bad habits, or have learned
> that nasty behavior pays off in being able to control content.
>
> Fred
>
> > I think you are completely right and it is a big problem in the
> > Wiki-world that is not being addressed by anyone in a leading position.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Lars Gardenius
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> >  Von: Rui Correia 
> > An: Wikimedia Mailing List 
> > Gesendet: 23:08 Mittwoch, 4.September 2013
> > Betreff: [Wikimedia-l] Please, let's save the Wikipedia - from itself
> >
> >
> > Greetings to All
> >
> > Let me start by saying that I don't do much here at the WP, not compared
> > to
> > people who make hundreds of edits a week. I would love to, have a long
> > list
> > of "to-do", but unfortunately time is not on my side.
> >
> > In my limited involvemet here, I have seen many a good editor leave the
> > project. Mostly, people leave because they can't take it anymore having
> > to
> > fight the 'blocks' of defenders that coalesce around certain topics.
> >
> > In itself, though not very healthy, such blocks forming around topis is
> > fine. What is not fine is that if any issue gets referred to a higher
> > process for a resolution, it is often the same people grouping of people
> > previously involved in disputes on the same topic who come to the
> > resolution forum to issue a decision. However, it is always the
> > 'outsider'
> > that loses. He gets acused of everything under the sun, and gets 'good
> > advice' from supposedly neutral editors, urging him to calm down, to
> > temper
> > his language etc. It is like trying to point out that the earth is round
> > at
> > a monthly meetng of the fat-earthers. That is not healthy and is making
> > the
> > WP processes look like a kangaroo court run by a cabal.
> >
> > And I expect pretty much the same reaction to this email.
> >
> > I pointed out in an ealier email to this list the difficulty that one
> > encounters when you include something negative about certain big
> > corporations. I was stoned and made to feel that I was wrong and everbody
> > else was right. The reaction was tantamount to a chorus of "yes, we know
> > there are problems, but don't say it out loud, someone might hear you!".
> >
> > Let's for argument's say that I was wrong. But - more importantantly -
> > was
> > anything done to investigate what I was saying? What if there are legions
> > out there paid to sanitise the pages of big corporations? And we know
> > that
> > they exist, and that WP has taken up the issue as in here,
> >
> http://nick-xomba-ceo.xomba.com/microsoft_accused_of_paying_blogger_to_alter_wikipedia_articles
> >
> > I made a silly remark on a Talk page about the choice of the word
> > "downgrade" to refer to people using Windows 8 who wanted to go back to
> > XP.
> > For a failed product, by Microsoft's own admission, going back to XP is
> > an
> > upgrade, going back to sanity, not a downgrade.
> >
> > I was first accused of trolling, then something else, then of offending
> > the
> > entire community of users of Windows 8. The editor who is adamant - not
> > the
> > first time - to purge ant-MS from the talkpage violated the 3RR, but
> > nothing gets done about it. I reported the 3RR, and it was immediately
> > closed, labelled as being relatiatory. There is a backlog of issues on
> > that
> > page, but my entry was closed within minutes.
> >
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Edit_warring#User:Codename_Lisa_reported_by_User:Rui_Gabriel_Correia_.28Result:_Closed.29
> >
> > It was closed, claiming that it was already being addressed elsewhere.
> >
> > So, I too will consider my stay here. Like I said right at the top, I
> > don't
> > do much here, so I am certain I will not even be missed. I edit in eight
> > languages, small little bits here and there. I participated in a number
> > of
> > initiaves on the development of Chapters in Africa and am happy to see
> > that
> > things are moving. I had the honour and privilege to meet Jimmy Wales in
> > South Africa and to discuss a few things relating to WP in Africa.
> >
> > So, it is time to wind down anr retire into a corner. I am busy with a
> > novel, I am sure that is where I should invest my time and energy.
> >
> > Sincere regards to all, happy editing
> >
> > Rui Correia
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > _
> > Rui Correia
> > Advocacy, Human Rights, Media and Language Work Consultant
> > Bridge to Angola - Angola Liaison Consultant
> >
> > Mobile Number in South Africa +27 74 425 4186
> > Número de Telemóvel na à frica do Sul +27 74 425 4186
> > ___
> > ___
> > Wikim

[Wikimedia-l] Etherpad Lite labs instance going down in two days - backup time

[Sumana Harihareswara]

Reminder: etherpad.wmflabs.org will end in two days.
-Sumana

On 08/23/2013 01:20 PM, Sumana Harihareswara wrote:
> And just as a reminder: etherpad.wikimedia.org is not a production-level
> service, and therefore any data within an etherpad
> should be considered both public and able to disappear at any time.
> This is one reason I recommend that people use Etherpads for short-term
> defined collaboration sessions, and frequently do backups, and always
> archive documents to a wiki after a session ends.
> 
> -- Sumana Harihareswara Engineering Community Manager Wikimedia
> Foundation On 08/23/2013 04:16 PM, Sumana Harihareswara wrote:
>> > Thanks to Mark Holmquist for maintaining http://etherpad.wmflabs.org for
>> > the past long while. It is going down in 2 weeks, so please retrieve
>> > your text.
>> > 
>> > I recommend that you:
>> > 
>> > * go into your browser history
>> > * search it for etherpad.wmflabs.org
>> > * go to each of those pads and copy-and-paste the content someplace,
>> > preferably on a public wiki, even if it's just in your userspace
>> > * replace the content of the Etherpad with a link to the wiki page
>> > you've moved the text to
>> > 
>> > -Sumana
>> > 
>> > 
>> >  Original Message 
>> > Subject: [Wikitech-l] Etherpad Lite labs instance going down in two
>> > weeks - backup time
>> > Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2013 13:02:13 -0700
>> > From: Mark Holmquist 
>> > Reply-To: Wikimedia developers 
>> > To: wikitec...@lists.wikimedia.org, engineer...@lists.wikimedia.org,
>> > lab...@lists.wikimedia.org
>> > 
>> > The day we have all equally hoped for and dreaded is come to pass: Etherpad
>> > Lite has now replaced Etherpad "Classic" in production, and the labs
>> > instance
>> > is on its way out.
>> > 
>> > This is my as-wide-as-possible email warning to say that everything on the
>> > labs instance, as really should have been expected, is going to be gone
>> > soon.
>> > Not immediately - we intend to give you two weeks to get your important 
>> > data
>> > off the instance and onto the new one at https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/ -
>> > but you should _absolutely_ be moving things as soon as possible. We will
>> > also keep a data dump around, in case anything else needs to get pulled out
>> > of the pads, but I would suggest not relying on that if you don't have to.
>> > 
>> > And in the future: If a URL has "wmflabs.org" in it...don't put anything,
>> > ANYTHING, important there. The purpose of labs is to let us experiment with
>> > new technology without having to worry about reliability.
>> > 
>> > Thanks so much for your help and understanding in the course of this
>> > migration.
>> > 
>> > tl;dr: http://etherpad.wmflabs.org is going down in 2 weeks, get yer
>> > stuff off it.


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Please, let's save the Wikipedia - from itself

[Josh Lim]

I think what we need to consider here is where the loyalties of many of these 
so-called "problematic" editors reside, whether their dedication to maintaining 
the content where their expertise has been valuable has been harmful to the 
overall health of the community.  While I think we are all on the side of 
Wikipedia here and we all have a genuine interest in improving the encyclopedia 
for everyone, we have gone to the point where we have started to perpetuate the 
idea that some are better at it than others, similar to that declaration in 
Animal Farmthat "all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others".

There are many reasons as to why this is the case, but I guess we need to 
reiterate the need for us to break down barriers here, both between ourselves 
as editors (step away from compartmentalizing ourselves into spaces where 
everyone else will agree with us because we are familiar with them), and 
between ourselves as people.  The latter, however, is very difficult to do, and 
it is one of the challenges that we have to face if we will want to assure 
Wikipedia's future success.

Regards,

Josh

 
JAMES JOSHUA G. LIM
Block I1, AB Political Science
Major in Global Politics, Minor in Chinese Studies
Class of 2013, Ateneo de Manila University
Quezon City, Metro Manila, Philippines

Trustee (2010-2013), Wikimedia Philippines
Member, Ateneo Debate Society
Member, The Assembly

jamesjoshua...@yahoo.com | +63 (927) 531-8301
Friendster/Facebook/Twitter: akiestar | Wikimedia: Sky Harbor
http://akira123323.livejournal.com




 From: Rui Correia 
To: Wikimedia Mailing List  
Sent: Thursday, September 5, 2013 5:08 AM
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Please, let's save the Wikipedia - from itself
 

Greetings to All

Let me start by saying that I don't do much here at the WP, not compared to
people who make hundreds of edits a week. I would love to, have a long list
of "to-do", but unfortunately time is not on my side.

In my limited involvemet here, I have seen many a good editor leave the
project. Mostly, people leave because they can't take it anymore having to
fight the 'blocks' of defenders that coalesce around certain topics.

In itself, though not very healthy, such blocks forming around topis is
fine. What is not fine is that if any issue gets referred to a higher
process for a resolution, it is often the same people grouping of people
previously involved in disputes on the same topic who come to the
resolution forum to issue a decision. However, it is always the 'outsider'
that loses. He gets acused of everything under the sun, and gets 'good
advice' from supposedly neutral editors, urging him to calm down, to temper
his language etc. It is like trying to point out that the earth is round at
a monthly meetng of the fat-earthers. That is not healthy and is making the
WP processes look like a kangaroo court run by a cabal.

And I expect pretty much the same reaction to this email.

I pointed out in an ealier email to this list the difficulty that one
encounters when you include something negative about certain big
corporations. I was stoned and made to feel that I was wrong and everbody
else was right. The reaction was tantamount to a chorus of "yes, we know
there are problems, but don't say it out loud, someone might hear you!".

Let's for argument's say that I was wrong. But - more importantantly - was
anything done to investigate what I was saying? What if there are legions
out there paid to sanitise the pages of big corporations? And we know that
they exist, and that WP has taken up the issue as in here,
http://nick-xomba-ceo.xomba.com/microsoft_accused_of_paying_blogger_to_alter_wikipedia_articles

I made a silly remark on a Talk page about the choice of the word
"downgrade" to refer to people using Windows 8 who wanted to go back to XP.
For a failed product, by Microsoft's own admission, going back to XP is an
upgrade, going back to sanity, not a downgrade.

I was first accused of trolling, then something else, then of offending the
entire community of users of Windows 8. The editor who is adamant - not the
first time - to purge ant-MS from the talkpage violated the 3RR, but
nothing gets done about it. I reported the 3RR, and it was immediately
closed, labelled as being relatiatory. There is a backlog of issues on that
page, but my entry was closed within minutes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Edit_warring#User:Codename_Lisa_reported_by_User:Rui_Gabriel_Correia_.28Result:_Closed.29

It was closed, claiming that it was already being addressed elsewhere.

So, I too will consider my stay here. Like I said right at the top, I don't
do much here, so I am certain I will not even be missed. I edit in eight
languages, small little bits here and there. I participated in a number of
initiaves on the development of Chapters in Africa and am happy to see that
things are moving. I had the honour and privilege to meet Jimmy Wales in
Sout