Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcement: WMF to file suit against the NSA
On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 7:00 AM Andreas Kolbe jayen...@gmail.com wrote: Steven Walling has written an interesting answer on Quora about one aspect of the New York Times op-ed, i.e. the threat NSA surveillance supposedly poses to Wikipedians living under oppressive regimes: https://www.quora.com/Would-stopping-NSA-surveillance- really-make-Wikipedia-editors-living-under-repressive- governments-safer/answer/Steven-Walling Chiming in since this is my answer... Keep in mind questions on Quora are pretty tightly scoped, i.e. this isn't necessarily an indictment of the rationale for suing NSA overall. It's an answer to a specific aspect of the arguments. If we want to argue about whether NSA dragnet surveillance is overall a threat to Wikipedia as an educational project, there's a whole other set of arguments that I think potentially support this action, including the fact that a complete lack of privacy has a chilling effect on editing regardless of what country you reside in, and that we promise readers that their reading activity isn't tracked.** The big tradeoff for me as a Wikipedian is whether this suit takes time, attention, and funds away from tackling core challenges like the decline in readership, editor recruitment/retention, and modernizing our software platform. I think the fact that this is being led by ACLU, and that the main cost to WMF seems to be in some time/attention of legal, comms, etc. makes me feel a bit more comfortable. I do worry about dragging away Lila's attention from these deep intractable problems with the ecosystem, but I'm not really comfortable standing up to say this whole endeavor is a waste of time or a bad use of the brand. We also don't really know how this is dominating her or any other staffer's time, because we're not their bosses. (Thankfully for them.) ** If anyone here wants to add their 2 cents, please do. There's also a question at https://www.quora.com/Wikimedia-Lawsuit-Against-the-NSA-2015/How-do-Wikipedia-editors-feel-about-the-lawsuit-against-NSA which is relevant. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/guidelineswikimedi...@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcement: WMF to file suit against the NSA
I'm generally supportive of this legal action, but I am troubled by this statement: I trust our legal team to make decisions about what legal actions to participate in. In general I think highly of Michelle, but this statement fits a long-running pattern I percieve in WMF governance of the board being deferential to the ED and staff. This goes back to Sue's tenure and possibly longer. I feel that the Board should respectfully ask tough questions about staff recommendations. Had the board done so, we might all have been saved from the MediaViewer, VisualEditor, and other product dramas because the Board would have been vigilant about project selection and quality control. WMF needs an activist board. All of the guidance that I read about boards in general says that good boards do due diligance, and I would encourage the WMF board to be proactive and ask tough questions. This can be done while maintaining a positive and respectful atmosphere. Thank you, Pine ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcement: WMF to file suit against the NSA
On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 12:04 PM, Pine W wiki.p...@gmail.com wrote: I'm generally supportive of this legal action, but I am troubled by this statement: I trust our legal team to make decisions about what legal actions to participate in. In general I think highly of Michelle, but this statement fits a long-running pattern I percieve in WMF governance of the board being deferential to the ED and staff. This goes back to Sue's tenure and possibly longer. I feel that the Board should respectfully ask tough questions about staff recommendations. Had the board done so, we might all have been saved from the MediaViewer, VisualEditor, and other product dramas because the Board would have been vigilant about project selection and quality control. WMF needs an activist board. All of the guidance that I read about boards in general says that good boards do due diligance, and I would encourage the WMF board to be proactive and ask tough questions. This can be done while maintaining a positive and respectful atmosphere. Thank you, Pine I think I would disagree Pine. Our board will always have a bit of an odd place because of our movement (this is not a bad thing) and will therefore be more hands on, however, a good board needs to be about oversight and strategic direction. They are NOT, very explicitly NOT about day to day management and they can not be because if they are they are unable to focus on the strategic direction part that is their primary responsibility. This includes the fact that while they should be consulted and notified about major decisions and actions (just like they were here, and if they had said that this was a bad mood I imagine that the staff would have reconsidered :) ). They should not be having votes or making resolutions about staff decisions like that, that is not the boards role. It is also not their role to challenge the staff in public, so therefore the fact that you see them saying they trust the staff to do X or Y does not actually mean that they are not challenging them behind the scenes and giving them a hard time/making them adjust things. Also, the only individual employee in the entire organization they oversee is the CEO/ED and it is through him or her that they do their work. If they think the organization is going in the wrong direction and needs correction then they should certainly take action (since they are ultimately responsible) but they work with the ED or they get rid of them if the ED isn't working with them. This is an important separation between the staff and the board and further encourages their distinct roles. Now this IS a bit different for very small organizations (including many of our chapters for example) but the foundation has been large enough to need the separation for quite some time now (this isn't a new thing because of our recent growth, I would say that WMDE and probably a couple of the other chapters are also at this level). I DO think we have an activist board, that's a good thing (not a bad thing) but I'm not sure you'd generally SEE when they decide to be activists and that is ALSO a good thing, not a bad thing. The board and staff disagreeing publicly and trying to hash out their differences causes enormous rifts within the organization and the community that are even harder to heal then the current ones between the foundation and the community (which we most definitely need to heal). James Alexander Community Advocacy Wikimedia Foundation (415) 839-6885 x6716 @jamesofur ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcement: WMF to file suit against the NSA
Oliver, I have thought about running more than once (: Perhaps I am reading more into that comment than was intended. James, I have mixed feelings about having discussions behind closed doors. Sometimes it's convenient or emotionally easier to do so, but I worry about losing our value of openness in the process. The majority of my evaluation is based on what I've seen in writing from board minutes, which seem pretty sparse on QA with the ED and staff. By contrast, I'm accustomed to our generally open meetings of government entities here in Washington State where we have some pretty expansive open records and open meetings laws, and these seem to viewed in a positive light by the public which wants to understand the positions of its elected officials. A mice toward more openness about board discussions might ease some of my concerns. Thanks, Pine On Mar 13, 2015 12:32 PM, Oliver Keyes ironho...@gmail.com wrote: (Personal capacity) Pine: I think you're reading far more into Phoebe's comment than it actually contained. What she said was I trust our legal team to make decisions about what legal actions to participate in. In other words, to make evaluations about the probability of success, the necessity of the thing that's being (defended|challenged) to the legal framework that lets the projects exist, and act on that basis. Unless I missed an election and the board now contains the equivalent expertise in internet law and the intricacies of our governing frameworks to an entire legal department, it seems entirely appropriate that these kinds of evaluations be left to the, you know, lawyers. I agree that boards should ask tough questions, but I've never been in a WMF board meeting and, to my knowledge, neither have you. There's a wide range of options between directly making decisions about legal questions and not asking questions; it's not as binary as you seem to believe. This applies to the VE as much as it does anything else. If you think the WMF needs a more activist board - which seems to mean a board that makes individual, specific product decisions and assumes legal expertise, I encourage you to run in the next election and we'll see what the movement as a whole thinks of that position. On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 3:04 PM, Pine W wiki.p...@gmail.com wrote: I'm generally supportive of this legal action, but I am troubled by this statement: I trust our legal team to make decisions about what legal actions to participate in. In general I think highly of Michelle, but this statement fits a long-running pattern I percieve in WMF governance of the board being deferential to the ED and staff. This goes back to Sue's tenure and possibly longer. I feel that the Board should respectfully ask tough questions about staff recommendations. Had the board done so, we might all have been saved from the MediaViewer, VisualEditor, and other product dramas because the Board would have been vigilant about project selection and quality control. WMF needs an activist board. All of the guidance that I read about boards in general says that good boards do due diligance, and I would encourage the WMF board to be proactive and ask tough questions. This can be done while maintaining a positive and respectful atmosphere. Thank you, Pine ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] SUL finalization update (no, for real this time)
Keegan: thank you, great news.SJ On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 4:07 PM, Keegan Peterzell kpeterz...@wikimedia.org wrote: Hi all, Single-user login[1] finalization will be taking place next month.[2] I know this has been said before over the past two years, but it is actually going to take place after nearly a decade of waiting :) I just posted an important announcement about the renaming process itself on Meta.[3] If you're interested, please take some time to read it over and help translate if possible. A one sentence message about this has been sent to village pumps as well, where available. All accounts that will be affected by this will be contacted on their talk page within the next couple of days.[4] All local wikis also have a publicly listed database of users who will be renamed, available at Special:UsersWhoWillBeRenamed.[4] Thanks for your time, please help spread the word to your other mailing lists and/or communities. 1. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login 2. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Single_User_Login_finalisation_announcement 3. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Single_User_Login_finalisation_announcement/Schema_announcement 4. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Single_User_Login_finalisation_announcement/Personal_announcement 5. for example, https://vo.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patikos:UsersWhoWillBeRenamedHmm -- Keegan Peterzell Community Liaison, Product Wikimedia Foundation ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe -- Samuel Klein @metasj w:user:sj +1 617 529 4266 ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] SUL finalization update (no, for real this time)
Excellent, thank you Keegan and all who have worked on this. Pine On Mar 13, 2015 1:07 PM, Keegan Peterzell kpeterz...@wikimedia.org wrote: Hi all, Single-user login[1] finalization will be taking place next month.[2] I know this has been said before over the past two years, but it is actually going to take place after nearly a decade of waiting :) I just posted an important announcement about the renaming process itself on Meta.[3] If you're interested, please take some time to read it over and help translate if possible. A one sentence message about this has been sent to village pumps as well, where available. All accounts that will be affected by this will be contacted on their talk page within the next couple of days.[4] All local wikis also have a publicly listed database of users who will be renamed, available at Special:UsersWhoWillBeRenamed.[4] Thanks for your time, please help spread the word to your other mailing lists and/or communities. 1. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login 2. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Single_User_Login_finalisation_announcement 3. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Single_User_Login_finalisation_announcement/Schema_announcement 4. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Single_User_Login_finalisation_announcement/Personal_announcement 5. for example, https://vo.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patikos:UsersWhoWillBeRenamedHmm -- Keegan Peterzell Community Liaison, Product Wikimedia Foundation ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
[Wikimedia-l] SUL finalization update (no, for real this time)
Hi all, Single-user login[1] finalization will be taking place next month.[2] I know this has been said before over the past two years, but it is actually going to take place after nearly a decade of waiting :) I just posted an important announcement about the renaming process itself on Meta.[3] If you're interested, please take some time to read it over and help translate if possible. A one sentence message about this has been sent to village pumps as well, where available. All accounts that will be affected by this will be contacted on their talk page within the next couple of days.[4] All local wikis also have a publicly listed database of users who will be renamed, available at Special:UsersWhoWillBeRenamed.[4] Thanks for your time, please help spread the word to your other mailing lists and/or communities. 1. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login 2. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Single_User_Login_finalisation_announcement 3. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Single_User_Login_finalisation_announcement/Schema_announcement 4. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Single_User_Login_finalisation_announcement/Personal_announcement 5. for example, https://vo.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patikos:UsersWhoWillBeRenamedHmm -- Keegan Peterzell Community Liaison, Product Wikimedia Foundation ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcement: WMF to file suit against the NSA
(Personal capacity) Pine: I think you're reading far more into Phoebe's comment than it actually contained. What she said was I trust our legal team to make decisions about what legal actions to participate in. In other words, to make evaluations about the probability of success, the necessity of the thing that's being (defended|challenged) to the legal framework that lets the projects exist, and act on that basis. Unless I missed an election and the board now contains the equivalent expertise in internet law and the intricacies of our governing frameworks to an entire legal department, it seems entirely appropriate that these kinds of evaluations be left to the, you know, lawyers. I agree that boards should ask tough questions, but I've never been in a WMF board meeting and, to my knowledge, neither have you. There's a wide range of options between directly making decisions about legal questions and not asking questions; it's not as binary as you seem to believe. This applies to the VE as much as it does anything else. If you think the WMF needs a more activist board - which seems to mean a board that makes individual, specific product decisions and assumes legal expertise, I encourage you to run in the next election and we'll see what the movement as a whole thinks of that position. On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 3:04 PM, Pine W wiki.p...@gmail.com wrote: I'm generally supportive of this legal action, but I am troubled by this statement: I trust our legal team to make decisions about what legal actions to participate in. In general I think highly of Michelle, but this statement fits a long-running pattern I percieve in WMF governance of the board being deferential to the ED and staff. This goes back to Sue's tenure and possibly longer. I feel that the Board should respectfully ask tough questions about staff recommendations. Had the board done so, we might all have been saved from the MediaViewer, VisualEditor, and other product dramas because the Board would have been vigilant about project selection and quality control. WMF needs an activist board. All of the guidance that I read about boards in general says that good boards do due diligance, and I would encourage the WMF board to be proactive and ask tough questions. This can be done while maintaining a positive and respectful atmosphere. Thank you, Pine ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcement: WMF to file suit against the NSA
Pardon the mobile device mistype. A *move* toward more openness. Pine On Mar 13, 2015 12:49 PM, Pine W wiki.p...@gmail.com wrote: Oliver, I have thought about running more than once (: Perhaps I am reading more into that comment than was intended. James, I have mixed feelings about having discussions behind closed doors. Sometimes it's convenient or emotionally easier to do so, but I worry about losing our value of openness in the process. The majority of my evaluation is based on what I've seen in writing from board minutes, which seem pretty sparse on QA with the ED and staff. By contrast, I'm accustomed to our generally open meetings of government entities here in Washington State where we have some pretty expansive open records and open meetings laws, and these seem to viewed in a positive light by the public which wants to understand the positions of its elected officials. A mice toward more openness about board discussions might ease some of my concerns. Thanks, Pine On Mar 13, 2015 12:32 PM, Oliver Keyes ironho...@gmail.com wrote: (Personal capacity) Pine: I think you're reading far more into Phoebe's comment than it actually contained. What she said was I trust our legal team to make decisions about what legal actions to participate in. In other words, to make evaluations about the probability of success, the necessity of the thing that's being (defended|challenged) to the legal framework that lets the projects exist, and act on that basis. Unless I missed an election and the board now contains the equivalent expertise in internet law and the intricacies of our governing frameworks to an entire legal department, it seems entirely appropriate that these kinds of evaluations be left to the, you know, lawyers. I agree that boards should ask tough questions, but I've never been in a WMF board meeting and, to my knowledge, neither have you. There's a wide range of options between directly making decisions about legal questions and not asking questions; it's not as binary as you seem to believe. This applies to the VE as much as it does anything else. If you think the WMF needs a more activist board - which seems to mean a board that makes individual, specific product decisions and assumes legal expertise, I encourage you to run in the next election and we'll see what the movement as a whole thinks of that position. On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 3:04 PM, Pine W wiki.p...@gmail.com wrote: I'm generally supportive of this legal action, but I am troubled by this statement: I trust our legal team to make decisions about what legal actions to participate in. In general I think highly of Michelle, but this statement fits a long-running pattern I percieve in WMF governance of the board being deferential to the ED and staff. This goes back to Sue's tenure and possibly longer. I feel that the Board should respectfully ask tough questions about staff recommendations. Had the board done so, we might all have been saved from the MediaViewer, VisualEditor, and other product dramas because the Board would have been vigilant about project selection and quality control. WMF needs an activist board. All of the guidance that I read about boards in general says that good boards do due diligance, and I would encourage the WMF board to be proactive and ask tough questions. This can be done while maintaining a positive and respectful atmosphere. Thank you, Pine ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/guidelineswikimedi...@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] SUL finalization update (no, for real this time)
On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 3:16 PM, Risker risker...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks very much for keeping us up to date, Keegan. When I look at the Special:UsersWhoWillBeRenamed on enwiki, I note a large number of accounts whose registration date is listed as today, even though I realise that's not possible. It might be helpful to include an explanation of that apparent anomaly in the announcement and/or the schema. (I'm assuming it has something to do with the accounts being very old, but it sure looks weird.) Risker/Anne Hey Risker, Those accounts are ones older than our registration tables. The date listed in that special page will be changed once we agree on the format: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T91839 This should be fixed before any major explanation or reworded is needed, I didn't want to let that hold this up even more :) -- Keegan Peterzell Community Liaison, Product Wikimedia Foundation ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] SUL finalization update (no, for real this time)
On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 3:07 PM, Keegan Peterzell kpeterz...@wikimedia.org wrote: 5. for example, https://vo.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patikos:UsersWhoWillBeRenamedHmm That should be https://vo.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patikos:UsersWhoWillBeRenamed It does make you go hmm though. -- Keegan Peterzell Community Liaison, Product Wikimedia Foundation ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcement: WMF to file suit against the NSA
2015-03-13 10:36 GMT+01:00 Edward Saperia edsape...@gmail.com: Education is apolitical. I beg to differ. Me too. «Growing up, you know, I slowly had this process realizing that all the things around me that people had told me were just the natural way of things were, or the way things would be, weren't natural at all. There were things that could be changed. And there were things, more importantly, were WRONG and should change. And once I realized that, there was really kind of no going back [...] once I questioned the school I was in, I questioned the society that built the school, I questioned the businesses that the schools were training people for, I questioned the government that set up this whole structure.» (Aaron Swartz, from the documentary :The Intenet's Own Boy)[*] I can hardly thing of anything less apolitical as giving the access to every human being to the sum of all knowledge, let alone education. C [*] (min 01:59 -- 02:14 and 12:14 -- 12:24) ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcement: WMF to file suit against the NSA
On 13 March 2015 at 19:04, Pine W wiki.p...@gmail.com wrote: In general I think highly of Michelle, but this statement fits a long-running pattern I percieve in WMF governance of the board being deferential to the ED and staff. This goes back to Sue's tenure and possibly longer. I feel that the Board should respectfully ask tough questions about staff recommendations. Had the board done so, we might all have been saved from the MediaViewer, VisualEditor, and other product dramas because the Board would have been vigilant about project selection and quality control. WMF needs an activist board. All of the guidance that I read about boards in general says that good boards do due diligance, and I would encourage the WMF board to be proactive and ask tough questions. This can be done while maintaining a positive and respectful atmosphere. I think you're completely incorrect here. Professional charities desperately need the separation, and being on the board of a professional-level nonprofit board is enough work. This sort of detailed overview of every initiative is precisely what a board needs to evolve the charity to *get away from*. - d. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcement: WMF to file suit against the NSA
On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 12:34 AM, Pine W wiki.p...@gmail.com wrote: I'm generally supportive of this legal action, but I am troubled by this statement: I trust our legal team to make decisions about what legal actions to participate in. ...WMF needs an activist board. All of the guidance that I read about boards in general says that good boards do due diligance, and I would encourage the WMF board to be proactive and ask tough questions. This can be done while maintaining a positive and respectful atmosphere. Dear Pine, As a recently-retired board member, I want to briefly chime in here. Apologies for dragging this thread off-course from the announcement. There seems to be an assumption that board members don't ask good questions unless they are 'activists' - that is simply not true of any board I'm on, and most certainly not of the WMF board. To combine this with James' email replying to yours, 'providing oversight', 'strategic direction' and 'doing due diligence' often means asking the right questions, including 'tough' questions - at board meetings or via email, but not publicly. Over the last five years, we've seen greater and greater clarity in separating board and staff roles at the WMF - that's a good thing that most organizations need to do as they mature, and helps both the board and the staff do what they should be doing, instead of getting their roles mixed up. Best Bishakha ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcement: WMF to file suit against the NSA
Hmm. It's more like we have little evidence that the former is happening, perhaps because of the latter. Anyway, yes, I think I've made my point and will let this thread get back on its main track. Pine On Mar 13, 2015 5:43 PM, Oliver Keyes ironho...@gmail.com wrote: So we've now moved from the board doesn't ask hard enough questions! to the board doesn't tell us enough? Those are distinct concerns. If you have them, I'd suggest spinning off a thread so we can keep this one to what it's meant to be discussing. On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 3:51 PM, Pine W wiki.p...@gmail.com wrote: Pardon the mobile device mistype. A *move* toward more openness. Pine On Mar 13, 2015 12:49 PM, Pine W wiki.p...@gmail.com wrote: Oliver, I have thought about running more than once (: Perhaps I am reading more into that comment than was intended. James, I have mixed feelings about having discussions behind closed doors. Sometimes it's convenient or emotionally easier to do so, but I worry about losing our value of openness in the process. The majority of my evaluation is based on what I've seen in writing from board minutes, which seem pretty sparse on QA with the ED and staff. By contrast, I'm accustomed to our generally open meetings of government entities here in Washington State where we have some pretty expansive open records and open meetings laws, and these seem to viewed in a positive light by the public which wants to understand the positions of its elected officials. A mice toward more openness about board discussions might ease some of my concerns. Thanks, Pine On Mar 13, 2015 12:32 PM, Oliver Keyes ironho...@gmail.com wrote: (Personal capacity) Pine: I think you're reading far more into Phoebe's comment than it actually contained. What she said was I trust our legal team to make decisions about what legal actions to participate in. In other words, to make evaluations about the probability of success, the necessity of the thing that's being (defended|challenged) to the legal framework that lets the projects exist, and act on that basis. Unless I missed an election and the board now contains the equivalent expertise in internet law and the intricacies of our governing frameworks to an entire legal department, it seems entirely appropriate that these kinds of evaluations be left to the, you know, lawyers. I agree that boards should ask tough questions, but I've never been in a WMF board meeting and, to my knowledge, neither have you. There's a wide range of options between directly making decisions about legal questions and not asking questions; it's not as binary as you seem to believe. This applies to the VE as much as it does anything else. If you think the WMF needs a more activist board - which seems to mean a board that makes individual, specific product decisions and assumes legal expertise, I encourage you to run in the next election and we'll see what the movement as a whole thinks of that position. On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 3:04 PM, Pine W wiki.p...@gmail.com wrote: I'm generally supportive of this legal action, but I am troubled by this statement: I trust our legal team to make decisions about what legal actions to participate in. In general I think highly of Michelle, but this statement fits a long-running pattern I percieve in WMF governance of the board being deferential to the ED and staff. This goes back to Sue's tenure and possibly longer. I feel that the Board should respectfully ask tough questions about staff recommendations. Had the board done so, we might all have been saved from the MediaViewer, VisualEditor, and other product dramas because the Board would have been vigilant about project selection and quality control. WMF needs an activist board. All of the guidance that I read about boards in general says that good boards do due diligance, and I would encourage the WMF board to be proactive and ask tough questions. This can be done while maintaining a positive and respectful atmosphere. Thank you, Pine ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/guidelineswikimedi...@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcement: WMF to file suit against the NSA
So we've now moved from the board doesn't ask hard enough questions! to the board doesn't tell us enough? Those are distinct concerns. If you have them, I'd suggest spinning off a thread so we can keep this one to what it's meant to be discussing. On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 3:51 PM, Pine W wiki.p...@gmail.com wrote: Pardon the mobile device mistype. A *move* toward more openness. Pine On Mar 13, 2015 12:49 PM, Pine W wiki.p...@gmail.com wrote: Oliver, I have thought about running more than once (: Perhaps I am reading more into that comment than was intended. James, I have mixed feelings about having discussions behind closed doors. Sometimes it's convenient or emotionally easier to do so, but I worry about losing our value of openness in the process. The majority of my evaluation is based on what I've seen in writing from board minutes, which seem pretty sparse on QA with the ED and staff. By contrast, I'm accustomed to our generally open meetings of government entities here in Washington State where we have some pretty expansive open records and open meetings laws, and these seem to viewed in a positive light by the public which wants to understand the positions of its elected officials. A mice toward more openness about board discussions might ease some of my concerns. Thanks, Pine On Mar 13, 2015 12:32 PM, Oliver Keyes ironho...@gmail.com wrote: (Personal capacity) Pine: I think you're reading far more into Phoebe's comment than it actually contained. What she said was I trust our legal team to make decisions about what legal actions to participate in. In other words, to make evaluations about the probability of success, the necessity of the thing that's being (defended|challenged) to the legal framework that lets the projects exist, and act on that basis. Unless I missed an election and the board now contains the equivalent expertise in internet law and the intricacies of our governing frameworks to an entire legal department, it seems entirely appropriate that these kinds of evaluations be left to the, you know, lawyers. I agree that boards should ask tough questions, but I've never been in a WMF board meeting and, to my knowledge, neither have you. There's a wide range of options between directly making decisions about legal questions and not asking questions; it's not as binary as you seem to believe. This applies to the VE as much as it does anything else. If you think the WMF needs a more activist board - which seems to mean a board that makes individual, specific product decisions and assumes legal expertise, I encourage you to run in the next election and we'll see what the movement as a whole thinks of that position. On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 3:04 PM, Pine W wiki.p...@gmail.com wrote: I'm generally supportive of this legal action, but I am troubled by this statement: I trust our legal team to make decisions about what legal actions to participate in. In general I think highly of Michelle, but this statement fits a long-running pattern I percieve in WMF governance of the board being deferential to the ED and staff. This goes back to Sue's tenure and possibly longer. I feel that the Board should respectfully ask tough questions about staff recommendations. Had the board done so, we might all have been saved from the MediaViewer, VisualEditor, and other product dramas because the Board would have been vigilant about project selection and quality control. WMF needs an activist board. All of the guidance that I read about boards in general says that good boards do due diligance, and I would encourage the WMF board to be proactive and ask tough questions. This can be done while maintaining a positive and respectful atmosphere. Thank you, Pine ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/guidelineswikimedi...@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Patrolling photographs of living people
2015-03-12 20:50 GMT+02:00 Fæ fae...@gmail.com: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:BLP_overwrites A quick reminder about this report which helps vandalism patrollers for the English Wikipedia spot when images used in Wikipedia biographies are being overwritten by newbie accounts. I recommend more admins add the report to their watch-list. Fae, you are aware that this is NOT the list for en.wp, right? Strainu ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Patrolling photographs of living people
On 13 March 2015 at 09:06, Strainu strain...@gmail.com wrote: Fae, you are aware that this is NOT the list for en.wp, right? Perhaps you missed the part of Fae's email which read: If there are other Wikipedias that may benefit from a similar report, please drop me a note on Commons or email me. together with the lengthy part of his email which discussed matters relating to Wikimedia Commons. I'm sure Fae will appreciate your apology. -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Patrolling photographs of living people
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:BLP_overwrites It was chance that the English Wikipedia was the first noticeable target of a revenge porn attack. The serious concern about potential public impact started me looking at how to build a report to help address the problem of image overwrites not being visible to biography article patrollers. I would be happy to hear of non-English Wikipedia cases that would provide an incentive to extend the report to other projects based on experience. The SQL underpinning the report identifies images of living people by searching relevant categories on the English Wikipedia for images, but several language databases could be added in (I would need local language help in choosing similar categories), with a constraint that it would be nice to keep the report updates within the current 5 minute cycle. This is a report for Commons hosted images which are used on *all* other projects. The majority of images currently listed are used in many languages, so if they are being overwritten with defamatory material, the internet footprint can be extremely large. For a real example, the current report highlights http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:JohnTerry.JPG which is used on 28 different Wikimedia projects. Cheers, Fae -- fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae On 13 March 2015 at 09:56, Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote: On 13 March 2015 at 09:06, Strainu strain...@gmail.com wrote: Fae, you are aware that this is NOT the list for en.wp, right? Perhaps you missed the part of Fae's email which read: If there are other Wikipedias that may benefit from a similar report, please drop me a note on Commons or email me. together with the lengthy part of his email which discussed matters relating to Wikimedia Commons. I'm sure Fae will appreciate your apology. -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcement: WMF to file suit against the NSA
Education is apolitical. I beg to differ. Saying that Wikipedia is apolitical is like saying democracy is apolitical. Control of information is at the heart of politics, and the knowledge that people have access to profoundly changes the way that they interact with society over their lifetimes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_revisionism_(negationism) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_manipulation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_design https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malala_Yousafzai etc *Edward Saperia* Conference Director Wikimania 2014 http://www.wikimanialondon.org email edsape...@gmail.com • facebook http://www.facebook.com/edsaperia • twitter http://www.twitter.com/edsaperia • 07796955572 133-135 Bethnal Green Road, E2 7DG ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
[Wikimedia-l] Understanding and building digital democracy
Hello everyone, Apologies for cross posting. Wikimedia UK, along with the Open Coalition http://open-coalition.org/ and Demos http://www.demos.co.uk/, are developing a project called From ticks to clicks - understanding and building digital democracy. We have just made a proposal https://www.newschallenge.org/challenge/elections/entries/from-ticks-to-clicks-understanding-and-building-digital-democracy-in-britain to the Knight News Challenge and we would really appreciate your feedback and support. If you can spare just a couple of minutes please do take a look and let us know what you think. Comments on the site, rather than here, are especially appreciated! With thanks and regards, Stevie -- Stevie Benton Head of External Relations Wikimedia UK +44 (0) 20 7065 0993 / +44 (0) 7803 505 173 @StevieBenton Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). *Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.* ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Patrolling photographs of living people
I think we can agree to disagree - I don't want to clutter other people's inboxes even more. Still, I'll hold you to this PoV next time I'll feel the need to constantly remember other people about my initiatives. Best regards, Strainu 2015-03-13 15:30 GMT+02:00 Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk: On 13 March 2015 at 11:36, Strainu strain...@gmail.com wrote: I'm sure Fae will appreciate your apology. There is nothing to apologize for. There is a place for such announcements, and wikimedia-l is not that. ORly? From: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l quote Wikimedia-l Wikimedia Mailing List Discussion list for the Wikimedia community and the larger network of organizations (Wikimedia Foundation, chapter organizations, affiliates, partners) supporting its work. This mailing list can, for example, be used for: The initial planning phase of potential new Wikimedia projects and initiatives [...] Other Wikimedia-related issues /quote -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcement: WMF to file suit against the NSA
I think that making us not-a-source-of-referred-traffic might be a good thing. (It disincentivises those who should be disincentivised, while not harming anyone else) sincerely, Kim Bruning On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 09:21:57AM -0700, Pete Forsyth wrote: There's a relevant research project outlined on Meta, about HTTPS: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:Wikimedia_referrer_policy Here's the nutshell description: Since we started switching to HTTPS and an increasing portion of inbound traffic happens over SSL, Wikimedia sites stopped advertising themselves as sources of referred traffic to external sites. While this is a literal implication of HTTPS, it means that Wikimedia's impact on traffic directed to other sites is becoming largely invisible: *is Wikimedia turning into a large source of dark traffic?* I review a use case (traffic directed to CrossRef) and discuss how other top web properties deal with this issue by adopting a so-called Referrer Policy. I don't know anything about this beyond what I've read on Meta, but I think it offers some useful background for this discussion. Pete -- Pete Forsyth [[User:Peteforsyth]] on English Wikipedia, Wikisource, Commons, etc. On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 7:58 AM, Andrew Lih andrew@gmail.com wrote: Probably a good time for everyone to know about EFF's HTTPS Everywhere: HTTPS Everywhere is a Firefox, Chrome, and Opera extension that encrypts your communications with many major websites, making your browsing more secure. Encrypt the web: Install HTTPS Everywhere today. https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 10:02 AM, Johan J??nsson brevlis...@gmail.com wrote: 2015-03-10 13:26 GMT+01:00 Comet styles cometsty...@gmail.com: for an organization taking on the NSA for spying..why are we using https? doesn't that show that we are already scared of them and running with our tail between our legs? (For non-technical readers: the HTTP protocol is the normal way to send around information on the web. HTTPS is the secure way of sending said information, adding encryption among other things, to avoid eavesdropping.) HTTP traffic can easily be tracked by people sharing the same network, by your Internet service provider and so on. If one cares about privacy, HTTPS is always important. It's worth noting that the NSA is not the only government agency in the world. I'd be even more worried about a number of countries where there would be little chance to fight the intruding party in the courtroom. Side note: you could probably track most HTTPS traffic to Wikipedia as well, even if you're not the NSA. Normally you would see that the user has accessed Wikipedia, but not which article. A way around that would be to let a spider (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_crawler) track the byte size of Wikipedia articles, which should be individual enough as soon as images are involved and compare it to the size of the page the user just accessed. If two articles happen to be of exactly the same size, compare with incoming and outgoing wiki links and see if the user accessed any page linking to or linked from one the articles to determine which one. But it would at least take some sort of effort, and wouldn't be perfect. //Johan J??nsson -- ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe -- [Non-pgp mail clients may show pgp-signature as attachment] gpg (www.gnupg.org) Fingerprint for key FEF9DD72 5ED6 E215 73EE AD84 E03A 01C5 94AC 7B0E FEF9 DD72 ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Patrolling photographs of living people
2015-03-13 11:56 GMT+02:00 Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk: On 13 March 2015 at 09:06, Strainu strain...@gmail.com wrote: Fae, you are aware that this is NOT the list for en.wp, right? Perhaps you missed the part of Fae's email which read: I did not. The place for such announcements is the village pump of various projects, using Global delivery. Out here this is at best reaching a tiny minority of interested people, at worst plain old spam. If there are other Wikipedias that may benefit from a similar report, please drop me a note on Commons or email me. together with the lengthy part of his email which discussed matters relating to Wikimedia Commons. I'm sure Fae will appreciate your apology. There is nothing to apologize for. There is a place for such announcements, and wikimedia-l is not that. Strainu -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcement: WMF to file suit against the NSA
Steven Walling has written an interesting answer on Quora about one aspect of the New York Times op-ed, i.e. the threat NSA surveillance supposedly poses to Wikipedians living under oppressive regimes: https://www.quora.com/Would-stopping-NSA-surveillance-really-make-Wikipedia-editors-living-under-repressive-governments-safer/answer/Steven-Walling ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Patrolling photographs of living people
On 13 March 2015 at 11:36, Strainu strain...@gmail.com wrote: I'm sure Fae will appreciate your apology. There is nothing to apologize for. There is a place for such announcements, and wikimedia-l is not that. ORly? From: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l quote Wikimedia-l Wikimedia Mailing List Discussion list for the Wikimedia community and the larger network of organizations (Wikimedia Foundation, chapter organizations, affiliates, partners) supporting its work. This mailing list can, for example, be used for: The initial planning phase of potential new Wikimedia projects and initiatives [...] Other Wikimedia-related issues /quote -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcement: WMF to file suit against the NSA
On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 5:03 AM, MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com wrote: How does the Wikimedia Foundation intend to protect the rights of users around the world when it will have a nearly impossible time of protecting Americans, much less non-Americans? U.S. courts and the U.S. Congress have made it very clear that spying on non-Americans is completely acceptable, so when I read that the aim is to protect users worldwide, I'm pretty skeptical. A good point. Again, in the case of Kazakhstan, that regime – which by general agreement is orders of magnitude more abusive than the US government – reportedly received nothing but praise from the Wikimedia Foundation.[1] This would have been worrying coming from anyone else, but was all the more so coming from Jimmy Wales. [1] https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2015-March/077053.html ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Patrolling photographs of living people
On 13 March 2015 at 14:32, Strainu strain...@gmail.com wrote: I'll hold you to this PoV next time I'll feel the need to constantly remember other people about my initiatives. constantly? How many times has Fae made such posts in, say, the last three months? -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Patrolling photographs of living people
No more, please. If needed, start a thread to discuss the scope of wikimedia-l. Regards, Thyge 2015-03-13 16:57 GMT+01:00 Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk: On 13 March 2015 at 14:32, Strainu strain...@gmail.com wrote: I'll hold you to this PoV next time I'll feel the need to constantly remember other people about my initiatives. constantly? How many times has Fae made such posts in, say, the last three months? -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
