[Wikimedia-l] New board at Wikimedia Estonia

2018-02-18 Thread Tanel Pern
Dear friends,

Wikimedia Eesti is happy to announce the election of a new board at our
yesterday's general assembly. The new board sees the return of
long-standing board member Eva Lepik. Other members of the new board
include Märt Põder, Käbi Suvi and Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren.

On my part, I would like to thank Wikimedia Eesti for their trust and
support over the last four years, and wish the new board the best of luck.

Tanel Pern,
(soon to be) ex-WMEE board
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 


Re: [Wikimedia-l] RFC on wikimedia-l posting limits

2018-02-18 Thread Pine W
For some time there have been periodic mentions of the idea of moving
Wikimedia-l to Discourse. [0]

I am considering establishing a Discourse installation myself and offering
it to host Wikimedia-l or its successor, which in addition to potential
usability improvements from Discourse would have the added benefit that it
would not be hosted on a WMF server and therefore would be somewhat
insulated from governance controversies at WMF such as we have experienced
in the past and such as the one recently experienced by WMFR. However, I am
concerned that I would be unable to provide sufficient legal protections
for the privacy of the list and its members, so I have not initiated this
project.

I think that a good first order of business would be for someone to close
the existing RfC on Meta. After that RfC is closed I think that we should
have further discussions about how we might like to continue to adjust our
communications on Wikimedia-l or its successor.

I am currently limiting myself to approximately 15 posts per month until
the RfC is closed.

Pine
( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discourse_(software)
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 


Re: [Wikimedia-l] RFC on wikimedia-l posting limits

2018-02-18 Thread Leila Zia
[writing at personal capacity.]

On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 2:55 PM, Joseph Seddon 
wrote:

> The question is, does it need a successor?
>

Whether mailing list is a good option for the kind of discussions we have
in wikimedia-l is not clear to me, however, the list is serving some
purposes and we need to make decisions about how those purposes will be
served if the list is removed. On a personal and professional level, this
list has helped me:

* find a social side to Wikimedia: When I joined WMF as a staff member four
years ago, I pretty much knew no one. Keeping an eye on this list has
helped me over the years to find a base beyond WMF staff that I know and I
can have volunteer, staff, or personal relations with. This is invaluable.
:)

* learn about Wikimedia's governance: again, for a newcomer like myself, it
was invaluable to be exposed to many different voices, opinions,
backgrounds, perspectives, etc. in one place.

* learn about the different projects going on around the Movement.

* find people who are interested to work with me in the research projects I
do at staff time.

This being said, I'm all for rethinking how we as a Movement communicate,
for what purpose, and what kind of technologies can help us do that more
efficiently and effectively.

Leila



>
> Seddon
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 10:42 PM, Pine W  wrote:
>
> > For some time there have been periodic mentions of the idea of moving
> > Wikimedia-l to Discourse. [0]
> >
> > I am considering establishing a Discourse installation myself and
> offering
> > it to host Wikimedia-l or its successor, which in addition to potential
> > usability improvements from Discourse would have the added benefit that
> it
> > would not be hosted on a WMF server and therefore would be somewhat
> > insulated from governance controversies at WMF such as we have
> experienced
> > in the past and such as the one recently experienced by WMFR. However, I
> am
> > concerned that I would be unable to provide sufficient legal protections
> > for the privacy of the list and its members, so I have not initiated this
> > project.
> >
> > I think that a good first order of business would be for someone to close
> > the existing RfC on Meta. After that RfC is closed I think that we should
> > have further discussions about how we might like to continue to adjust
> our
> > communications on Wikimedia-l or its successor.
> >
> > I am currently limiting myself to approximately 15 posts per month until
> > the RfC is closed.
> >
> > Pine
> > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> >
> > [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discourse_(software)
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Seddon
>
> *Community and Audience Engagement Associate*
> *Advancement (Fundraising), Wikimedia Foundation*
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
>
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 


Re: [Wikimedia-l] RFC on wikimedia-l posting limits

2018-02-18 Thread Craig Franklin
It would be good to conclusively and definitively close the RFC, but I'm
not sure I agree with the notion that less posts is a *bad* thing.  In some
months we've had quite a lot of traffic on this list, a lot of which has
been very low quality and only of interest to a small number of people.  I
do not see that the utility of this list can be measured accurately by
looking solely at volume metrics like the number of posts or the size of
the posts.

Plus, I would also add that a look at the history of the list shows that
posting amounts vary widely anyway.  There were more than twice as many
posts in October 2017 as compared to October 2016, for instance.

Cheers,
Craig

On 7 February 2018 at 22:01, Fæ  wrote:

> On 23 August 2017 at 05:03, John Mark Vandenberg  wrote:
> > Hi list members,
> >
> > The list admins (hereafter 'we', being Austin, Asaf, Shani and I, your
> > humble narrator) regularly receive complaints about the frequent
> > posters on this list, as well as about the unpleasant atmosphere some
> > posters (some of them frequent) create.
> >
> > It is natural that frequent posters will say specific things that more
> > frequently annoy other list members, but often the complaints are due
> > to the volume of messages rather than the content of the messages.
> >
> > We are floating some suggestions aimed specifically at reducing the
> > volume, hopefully motivating frequent posters to self-moderate more,
> > but these proposed limits are actually intending to increasing the
> > quality of the discourse without heavy subjective moderation.
> >
> > The first proposal impacts all posters to this list, and the last
> > three proposals are aimed at providing a more clear framework within
> > which criticism and whistle-blowing are permitted, but that critics
> > are prevented from drowning out other discussions. The bandwidth that
> > will be given to critics should be established in advance, reducing
> > need to use subjective moderation of the content when a limit to the
> > volume will often achieve the same result.
> ...
> >
> > The RFC is at https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/
> wikimedia-l-post-limits
> >
> > However please also feel welcome to reply on-list if you wish to
> > express explicit support or opposition to any of the four proposals
> > above (please identify them by number, to ease counting).  We will
> > count votes (here and on the meta RFC) after two weeks, and post a
> > more refined final version back to this mailing list.
> >
> > The list administrators will default to *enacting* all four proposals,
> > but will refrain from enacting any proposal receiving more opposition
> > than support.
> > --
> > John Vandenberg
>
> The RFC has yet to be closed, after being open for over five months.
> Could someone close it or reject it?
>
> In practical reality, the hardline talk about posting limits, seems to
> have resulted in significantly reduced posts to this list. The
> statistics are somewhat worrying, casting doubt on the long term
> future of this list staying active or interesting.
>
> The standard statistics [1] show participation is at a record low. My
> sense of the list is that real content discussions are now minimal,
> with announcements and thankspam outnumbering thoughtful observations
> or critiques.
>
> Picking out one trend to illustrate, here are comparative numbers for
> last month against other Januarys in the last few years, which is a
> simple way to compensate for seasonal variation:
>   2018, 139 posts
>   2017, 370 posts
>   2016, 989 posts
>   2015, 445 posts
>   2014, 571 posts
>
> Rather than increasing negative bureaucracy on the list to stop people
> posting too much, perhaps the list moderators have some views on how
> to positively encourage people to engage with the community here?
>
> Links
> 1. https://stats.wikimedia.org/mail-lists/wikimedia-l.html
>
> Thanks,
> Fae
> --
> fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
>
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
>
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 


Re: [Wikimedia-l] RFC on wikimedia-l posting limits

2018-02-18 Thread Gergo Tisza
On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 2:42 PM, Pine W  wrote:

> I am considering establishing a Discourse installation myself and offering
> it to host Wikimedia-l or its successor


There are already two experimental Discourse instances:
https://discourse.wmflabs.org/ for trialing Discourse as a mailing list
alternative (see https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Discourse )
https://discourse-mediawiki.wmflabs.org/ for trialing it as a developer
support channel (see https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Discourse )
The latter has more movement these days (it's seen as a more pressing
problem to solve, also it's a semi-official WMF project) but in any case
the technology side of introducing Discourse is well covered; it's the
social side (finding a small or new mailing list, convince them to move to
Discourse, collect feedback) that needs work.
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 


Re: [Wikimedia-l] Strategy Report Released: Wikimedia 2030: Wikimedia’s role in shaping the future of the information commons

2018-02-18 Thread Pine W
Caitlin, thanks for sharing this.

My general thoughts are below. These are not directed at Caitlin or anyone
else in particular.

I think that the document does a generally good job of outlining trends and
asking questions. I think that I agree with about 95% of what's in the
document. I agree especially strongly that there should be more emphasis on
improving the user experience for those who wish to contribute content
using mobile devices.

My most significant concern is with the question that the document asks
staff: "How will the Wikimedia Foundation assert and balance leadership of
the Wikimedia movement with its role fostering a robust volunteer culture?"
WMF's role is that of a public service organization, not a central
management agency, and "assert(ing)" leadership is the opposite of what WMF
should do. Wikimedia's culture is collective rather than monarchical. Staff
and Board members should be trained to understand that their role is to
serve the public interest, and not to manage or supervise the community.

Leadership of individual projects, initiatives, and teams happens in many
ways inside and outside of WMF, and leadership skills are important.
However, I believe that leadership of the entire movement is not and should
not be WMF's role. WMF can be the facilitator, but should not be the
manager. In the recent past we had a vivid demonstration of what happens
when there are governance problems in WMF.

I think that good questions would be:

1. How can WMF better align its internal priorities with those of the
community? There has been progress on this during the past few years, and I
would like to see continued progress.

2. How can WMF evolve such that if WMF became dysfunctional or inoperable,
the remaining organizations and people in the Wikimedia ecosystem could
continue to thrive?

I also would like to see questions about the governance and financial
transparency of the Wikimedia Foundation, for example by asking questions
such as "Should WMF decentralize some of its current functions?", "Should
WMF become a membership organization?", and "Should WMF increase its
financial transparency?"

After reading the document, I'm left wondering how to make progress on some
of the issues that the document outlines. We've known about some of these
issues for years, and in a number of cases WMF has funded efforts to
address them, but in multiple cases we have had limited success.

Even when we have agreement about the nature of challenges and that we'd
like to address them, we don't necessarily know how to address them
effectively. I think that the document does a good job of asking us
questions that we should explore, and probably will continue to explore for
many years.

We need considerably more human resources than we have now on many fronts,
including more contributors in diverse languages, contributors with the
skills and tools improve the visual experience of Wikimedia content, and
contributors who can protect the sites from interference from people who
harm the integrity of the information on Wikimedia sites. I am not sure how
we make that happen, or that it will happen. I fear that it will only
happen after AI takes over a considerable number of jobs that humans do
today, so that there is a significant increase of global unemployment and
under-employment of people who have the skills and the will to contribute
to Wikimedia. I hope that I'm wrong.

I realize that this email sounds a bit pessimistic. I think that there are
numerous significant challenges for us. I am hoping for the best. In the
short term we are doing okay, and we continue to numerous incremental
successes. In the long term, I am worried.

Pine
( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 


Re: [Wikimedia-l] RFC on wikimedia-l posting limits

2018-02-18 Thread Joseph Seddon
The question is, does it need a successor?

Seddon


On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 10:42 PM, Pine W  wrote:

> For some time there have been periodic mentions of the idea of moving
> Wikimedia-l to Discourse. [0]
>
> I am considering establishing a Discourse installation myself and offering
> it to host Wikimedia-l or its successor, which in addition to potential
> usability improvements from Discourse would have the added benefit that it
> would not be hosted on a WMF server and therefore would be somewhat
> insulated from governance controversies at WMF such as we have experienced
> in the past and such as the one recently experienced by WMFR. However, I am
> concerned that I would be unable to provide sufficient legal protections
> for the privacy of the list and its members, so I have not initiated this
> project.
>
> I think that a good first order of business would be for someone to close
> the existing RfC on Meta. After that RfC is closed I think that we should
> have further discussions about how we might like to continue to adjust our
> communications on Wikimedia-l or its successor.
>
> I am currently limiting myself to approximately 15 posts per month until
> the RfC is closed.
>
> Pine
> ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
>
> [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discourse_(software)
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
>



-- 
Seddon

*Community and Audience Engagement Associate*
*Advancement (Fundraising), Wikimedia Foundation*
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 


Re: [Wikimedia-l] New board at Wikimedia Estonia

2018-02-18 Thread Eileen Hershenov
Congratulations and congratulations and welcome back Eva!

Eileen

On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 7:07 AM Tanel Pern  wrote:

> Dear friends,
>
> Wikimedia Eesti is happy to announce the election of a new board at our
> yesterday's general assembly. The new board sees the return of
> long-standing board member Eva Lepik. Other members of the new board
> include Märt Põder, Käbi Suvi and Nicolás Tamargo de Eguren.
>
> On my part, I would like to thank Wikimedia Eesti for their trust and
> support over the last four years, and wish the new board the best of luck.
>
> Tanel Pern,
> (soon to be) ex-WMEE board
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 

-- 
Eileen B. Hershenov
General Counsel
Wikimedia Foundation
1 Montgomery Street, Suite 1600

San Francisco, CA 94104

(Licensed in New York; applying for California Registered In-House Counsel
status)
ehershe...@wikimedia.org
(US) 415-483-6676

*NOTICE: This message may be confidential or legally privileged. If you
have received it by accident, please delete it and let us know about the
mistake. As an attorney for the Wikimedia Foundation and for legal/ethical
reasons, I cannot give legal advice to, or serve as a lawyer for, community
members, volunteers, or staff members in their personal capacity. For more
on what this means, please see our legal disclaimer
.*
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 


[Wikimedia-l] What's making you happy this week? (Week of 18 February 2018)

2018-02-18 Thread Pine W
What's making me happy this week is Isarra's persistence in working on the
Timeless skin. Timeless is based on Winter. [0] [1]

For anyone who would like to try Timeless, it's available in Preferences
under Appearance / Skin.

What's making you happy this week?

Pine
( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )

[0] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Skin:Timeless
[1] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Winter
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,