Re: [Wikimedia-l] August 2018 "Community Metrics and Activities Meeting"

[Joseph Fox]

That does sound like a pretty cool idea. :)

Joe

On Mon, 6 Aug 2018 at 13:23 Pine W  wrote:

> Thanks for the input. I had been thinking of this as a meeting where
> useful communications and discussions would happen, but maybe going in the
> opposite direction would have more appeal. I could simply host a casual
> meetup on Zoom an hour before the WMF metrics meeting. There would be no
> agenda, and the environment would be like a coffee house. People could talk
> about whatever Wikimedia-related subjects are on their minds. Does that
> sound like it would be of interest?
>
> Pine
> ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
>  Original message From: Richard Ames 
> Date: 8/5/18  6:01 PM  (GMT-08:00) To: Wikimedia Mailing List <
> wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] August 2018
> "Community Metrics and Activities
> Meeting"
> I think Rupert has a point.   I would consider getting up at 5AM for a
> general conversation but not to be bored.
>
> More loose, fun would be good.   I can't do the end of this month - will be
> travelling.
>
> Cheers, Richard.
>
> On Monday, 6 August 2018, rupert THURNER  wrote:
>
> > pine, i find the lack of feedback a pity, so let me give at least my
> > personal impression. "activities and metrics" sounded bureaucratic, and
> it
> > sounded like work, not rewarding. the opposite of fun. not sure if a
> > regular meetup would work better? a hangout? same time all the time. no
> > matter how many persons are there, maybe once a month? one would need to
> > think a little about the fun though.
> >
> > On Sun, Aug 5, 2018 at 11:09 PM, Pine W  wrote:
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > Given the lack of interest and lack of suggestions, I'm going to cancel
> > the
> > > meeting. However, if other people would like to be bold in organizing a
> > > meeting like this, they are welcome to do so.
> > >
> > > I would like to encourage interpersonal and social connections among
> > > good-faith Wikimedia content contributors and grassroots project
> > > organizers, and I'd be glad to see suggestions and initiatives which do
> > > this.
> > >
> > > Pine
> > > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> > >
> > > On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 8:36 PM, Pine W  wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi all,
> > > >
> > > > The number of people who have participated in the Doodle poll is very
> > > low.
> > > > Before I give up on the idea of having a community metrics and
> > activities
> > > > meeting, would anyone like to make a suggestion about how a meeting
> > like
> > > > this could be more interesting or useful?
> > > >
> > > > Pine
> > > > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Jul 31, 2018 at 3:11 AM, Pine W  wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> I am attempting this one more time, with more advance notice and
> some
> > > >> alterations to the agenda.
> > > >>
> > > >> Here is a Doodle poll with options for scheduling:
> > > >> https://doodle.com/poll/iycrgia2wqune63g.
> > > >>
> > > >> I have created a page on Meta where people who want to include an
> > agenda
> > > >> item can do so: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik
> > > >> i/Community_Metrics_and_Activities_Meeting
> > > >>
> > > >> This is an experiment. I hope that a meeting like this can
> facilitate
> > > and
> > > >> nurture international connections, and I hope that people will be
> > > >> interested enough to participate.
> > > >>
> > > >> The meeting platform will be Zoom .
> > >
> > ___
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> > 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] August 2018 "Community Metrics and Activities Meeting"

[Pine W]

Thanks for the input. I had been thinking of this as a meeting where useful 
communications and discussions would happen, but maybe going in the opposite 
direction would have more appeal. I could simply host a casual meetup on Zoom 
an hour before the WMF metrics meeting. There would be no agenda, and the 
environment would be like a coffee house. People could talk about whatever 
Wikimedia-related subjects are on their minds. Does that sound like it would be 
of interest?

Pine
( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
 Original message From: Richard Ames  Date: 
8/5/18  6:01 PM  (GMT-08:00) To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
 Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] August 2018 
"Community Metrics and Activities
Meeting" 
I think Rupert has a point.   I would consider getting up at 5AM for a
general conversation but not to be bored.

More loose, fun would be good.   I can't do the end of this month - will be
travelling.

Cheers, Richard.

On Monday, 6 August 2018, rupert THURNER  wrote:

> pine, i find the lack of feedback a pity, so let me give at least my
> personal impression. "activities and metrics" sounded bureaucratic, and it
> sounded like work, not rewarding. the opposite of fun. not sure if a
> regular meetup would work better? a hangout? same time all the time. no
> matter how many persons are there, maybe once a month? one would need to
> think a little about the fun though.
>
> On Sun, Aug 5, 2018 at 11:09 PM, Pine W  wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Given the lack of interest and lack of suggestions, I'm going to cancel
> the
> > meeting. However, if other people would like to be bold in organizing a
> > meeting like this, they are welcome to do so.
> >
> > I would like to encourage interpersonal and social connections among
> > good-faith Wikimedia content contributors and grassroots project
> > organizers, and I'd be glad to see suggestions and initiatives which do
> > this.
> >
> > Pine
> > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 8:36 PM, Pine W  wrote:
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > The number of people who have participated in the Doodle poll is very
> > low.
> > > Before I give up on the idea of having a community metrics and
> activities
> > > meeting, would anyone like to make a suggestion about how a meeting
> like
> > > this could be more interesting or useful?
> > >
> > > Pine
> > > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Jul 31, 2018 at 3:11 AM, Pine W  wrote:
> > >
> > >> I am attempting this one more time, with more advance notice and some
> > >> alterations to the agenda.
> > >>
> > >> Here is a Doodle poll with options for scheduling:
> > >> https://doodle.com/poll/iycrgia2wqune63g.
> > >>
> > >> I have created a page on Meta where people who want to include an
> agenda
> > >> item can do so: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik
> > >> i/Community_Metrics_and_Activities_Meeting
> > >>
> > >> This is an experiment. I hope that a meeting like this can facilitate
> > and
> > >> nurture international connections, and I hope that people will be
> > >> interested enough to participate.
> > >>
> > >> The meeting platform will be Zoom .
> >
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] New Wikimedia Foundation has soft launched!

[Lodewijk]

I can imagine that this alternate privacy policy is actually covering a
wider range of sites that are non-wiki, such as the fundraising
infrastructure and the survey websites, voting websites etc. Rather than
having a different privacy policy for each of those instances, I think it
is actually clearer to have two policies: one for the content delivery (the
'wikis') that have practically zero cookie tracking to the best of my
knowledge and one for the other websites that may require other methods to
be functional.

As a sidenote, I think it actually could be a totally fair statement to say
that wikimediafoundation.org is, relative to the content projects, not a
'major site' of the WMF. It is supporting infrastructure at best. (no
offense :) )

Lodewijk

On Mon, Aug 6, 2018 at 7:23 AM Chico Venancio 
wrote:

> Indeed an special watered down privacy policy is strange. It is worth
> noting that the standard privacy policy[1] does not state that it only
> applies to "wiki based websites" but instead lists what it does and does
> not cover[2], the only interpretation that allows a separate policy for the
> new website weirdly leaves* https://wikimediafoundation.org/
>  as being defined to not be a major site
> of WMF. *
>
> Irregardless of possible poor wording of both privacy policies, I find it
> strange that the main website for WMF has a tracking pixel and forces
> visitors to provide users' personal information (as defined by either
> privacy policies) to Google and Wordpress.com.
>
> Perhaps this is something WMF could revisit?
>
> Best regards,
> Chico Venancio
>
> [1]https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Privacy_policy
> [2]https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Privacy_policy#coverage
>
>
>
> 2018-08-06 2:06 GMT-03:00 Yair Rand :
>
> > There are several more issues I've noticed with the new website:
> > * According to the notice at the bottom, the company "Automattic Inc." is
> > receiving all sorts of data about all visitors to the site, including
> > location information, cookie data, data from pixel tags/web beacons used
> to
> > track visitors and target ads on other WordPress sites, and other data.
> > * The "non-wiki privacy policy of the Wikimedia Foundation" linked at the
> > bottom is different than the regular privacy policy. Why is this?
> > * Much of the content is essentially English-Wikipedia-only. "Visit The
> > Teahouse for a friendly place to learn about editing" Most Wikipedias
> don't
> > have teahouses or equivalents.
> > * In "Wikimedia projects": "Wikipedia - All the world's knowledge". See
> > [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of
> information]].
> > * "Working with partners like Google, the Metropolitan Museum of Art, and
> > UNESCO, Wikimedia...". I don't think most Wikimedians are okay with the
> WMF
> > describing Google as among its partners. Nor the Met or UNESCO, for that
> > matter.
> > * In the "Technology" section, there's a paragraph devoted to bragging
> > about how NASA has an internal Mediawiki wiki. I don't think that belongs
> > there.
> > * The actual Wikimedia Foundation Mission is kind of buried deep in the
> > site. The Mission is the definitive version of what the WMF is supposed
> to
> > be doing, and I really think it should be highlighted somewhere in a more
> > prominent position.
> >
> > "The mission of the Wikimedia Foundation is to empower and engage people
> > around the world to collect and develop educational content under a free
> > license or in the public domain, and to disseminate it effectively and
> > globally.
> >
> > In collaboration with a network of chapters, the Wikimedia Foundation
> > provides the essential infrastructure and an organizational framework for
> > the support and development of multilingual wiki projects and other
> > endeavors which serve this mission. The Foundation will make and keep
> > useful information from its projects available on the Internet free of
> > charge, in perpetuity."
> >
> > -- Yair Rand
> >
> > 2018-08-03 17:12 GMT-04:00 Andy Mabbett :
> >
> > > On 2 August 2018 at 02:51, Gregory Varnum 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > You can check it out for yourself here (you may need to clear your
> > > browser's cache):  https://wikimediafoundation.org/
> > >
> > > The home page currently says:
> > >
> > >" Everything on a Wikimedia site is available as Creative Commons
> > > material. "
> > >
> > > That is not true. Material includes:
> > >
> > > * PD content (copyright expires; US government, etc)
> > > * Fair-use copyright material.
> > >
> > > In the latter case, suggesting otherwise could be harmful to our users.
> > >
> > >
> > > Furthermore, the "Sesame Street" image used on the site's home page
> > > and the linked article, is labelled on Commons: "This work might not
> > > be available under a free license in the United States because it is
> > > based on an artwork or sculpture that may be protected by copyright
> > > under U.S. law."
> > >
> > > --
> 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] New Wikimedia Foundation has soft launched!

[Chico Venancio]

Indeed an special watered down privacy policy is strange. It is worth
noting that the standard privacy policy[1] does not state that it only
applies to "wiki based websites" but instead lists what it does and does
not cover[2], the only interpretation that allows a separate policy for the
new website weirdly leaves* https://wikimediafoundation.org/
 as being defined to not be a major site
of WMF. *

Irregardless of possible poor wording of both privacy policies, I find it
strange that the main website for WMF has a tracking pixel and forces
visitors to provide users' personal information (as defined by either
privacy policies) to Google and Wordpress.com.

Perhaps this is something WMF could revisit?

Best regards,
Chico Venancio

[1]https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Privacy_policy
[2]https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Privacy_policy#coverage



2018-08-06 2:06 GMT-03:00 Yair Rand :

> There are several more issues I've noticed with the new website:
> * According to the notice at the bottom, the company "Automattic Inc." is
> receiving all sorts of data about all visitors to the site, including
> location information, cookie data, data from pixel tags/web beacons used to
> track visitors and target ads on other WordPress sites, and other data.
> * The "non-wiki privacy policy of the Wikimedia Foundation" linked at the
> bottom is different than the regular privacy policy. Why is this?
> * Much of the content is essentially English-Wikipedia-only. "Visit The
> Teahouse for a friendly place to learn about editing" Most Wikipedias don't
> have teahouses or equivalents.
> * In "Wikimedia projects": "Wikipedia - All the world's knowledge". See
> [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information]].
> * "Working with partners like Google, the Metropolitan Museum of Art, and
> UNESCO, Wikimedia...". I don't think most Wikimedians are okay with the WMF
> describing Google as among its partners. Nor the Met or UNESCO, for that
> matter.
> * In the "Technology" section, there's a paragraph devoted to bragging
> about how NASA has an internal Mediawiki wiki. I don't think that belongs
> there.
> * The actual Wikimedia Foundation Mission is kind of buried deep in the
> site. The Mission is the definitive version of what the WMF is supposed to
> be doing, and I really think it should be highlighted somewhere in a more
> prominent position.
>
> "The mission of the Wikimedia Foundation is to empower and engage people
> around the world to collect and develop educational content under a free
> license or in the public domain, and to disseminate it effectively and
> globally.
>
> In collaboration with a network of chapters, the Wikimedia Foundation
> provides the essential infrastructure and an organizational framework for
> the support and development of multilingual wiki projects and other
> endeavors which serve this mission. The Foundation will make and keep
> useful information from its projects available on the Internet free of
> charge, in perpetuity."
>
> -- Yair Rand
>
> 2018-08-03 17:12 GMT-04:00 Andy Mabbett :
>
> > On 2 August 2018 at 02:51, Gregory Varnum  wrote:
> >
> > > You can check it out for yourself here (you may need to clear your
> > browser's cache):  https://wikimediafoundation.org/
> >
> > The home page currently says:
> >
> >" Everything on a Wikimedia site is available as Creative Commons
> > material. "
> >
> > That is not true. Material includes:
> >
> > * PD content (copyright expires; US government, etc)
> > * Fair-use copyright material.
> >
> > In the latter case, suggesting otherwise could be harmful to our users.
> >
> >
> > Furthermore, the "Sesame Street" image used on the site's home page
> > and the linked article, is labelled on Commons: "This work might not
> > be available under a free license in the United States because it is
> > based on an artwork or sculpture that may be protected by copyright
> > under U.S. law."
> >
> > --
> > Andy Mabbett
> > @pigsonthewing
> > http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
> >
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
> >
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