Re: [Wikimedia-l] WikiProject COVID-19 (English Wikipedia) is started

2020-03-15 Thread James Heilman
Because I was on a cell phone rather than my computer. But yes lets take it
elsewhere.

James

On Sun, Mar 15, 2020 at 4:08 PM Paulo Santos Perneta <
paulospern...@gmail.com> wrote:

> The thread was about COVID-19, not about "COVID", so no idea really why Doc
> James replied talking about something else. But I don't want to go on with
> that subject, at Pine's request. What I wanted to say about it, I've
> already said.
>
> Thanks,
> Paulo
>
> Andy Mabbett  escreveu no dia domingo,
> 15/03/2020 à(s) 22:01:
>
> > On Sun, 15 Mar 2020 at 21:07, Paulo Santos Perneta
> >  wrote:
> >
> > >> Covid is an abreviaton for coronavirus disease.
> >
> > > No, it's an abbreviation for *Coronavirus Disease 2019* [1]
> >
> > That would make "COVID-19" mean "Coronavirus Disease 2019-19".
> >
> > --
> > Andy Mabbett
> > @pigsonthewing
> > http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
> >
> > ___
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-- 
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[Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Café - Sat 28 March 2020...

2020-03-15 Thread Lane Rasberry
>
> Hello,

I am writing to invite anyone to join the next online meeting of Wikimedia
Café on Saturday 28 March 2020 4:30 PM UTC. Details for joining are at
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Café
> (video room open at that time) https://virginia.zoom.us/my/wikilgbt

The agenda for this month includes discussing COVID-19 and Wikipedia and
how Wikimedia community members feel about WMF/community relations.

Wikimedia Café is a modest, one-hour, monthly online meeting which for the
past few months has had fewer than 10 attendees. At these meetings anyone
can propose to discuss any topic of broad Wikimedia community interest, as
if we all were able to meet in person over coffee. The meetings themselves
are an experiment in small group Wikimedia community conversation with
video chat, phone access options, and online shared notetaking. Please see
WikiProject Remote Event Participation for more information about this
general style of online event.
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WikiProject_remote_event_participation

   - Anyone interested in joining may do so.
   - Anyone interested in reading notes of past meetings can find them on
   the meta page.
   - If there is anyone who wants to get their ideas published in the wiki
   world, consider looking at how this Café works, because voice chat with
   notetaking could be a way to organize your own wiki community.

Thanks Pine for performing as host in this and thanks to anyone who submits
topics for discussion or who is able to join.

-- 
Lane Rasberry
user:bluerasberry on Wikipedia
206.801.0814
l...@bluerasberry.com
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WikiProject COVID-19 (English Wikipedia) is started

2020-03-15 Thread Paulo Santos Perneta
The thread was about COVID-19, not about "COVID", so no idea really why Doc
James replied talking about something else. But I don't want to go on with
that subject, at Pine's request. What I wanted to say about it, I've
already said.

Thanks,
Paulo

Andy Mabbett  escreveu no dia domingo,
15/03/2020 à(s) 22:01:

> On Sun, 15 Mar 2020 at 21:07, Paulo Santos Perneta
>  wrote:
>
> >> Covid is an abreviaton for coronavirus disease.
>
> > No, it's an abbreviation for *Coronavirus Disease 2019* [1]
>
> That would make "COVID-19" mean "Coronavirus Disease 2019-19".
>
> --
> Andy Mabbett
> @pigsonthewing
> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>
> ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WikiProject COVID-19 (English Wikipedia) is started

2020-03-15 Thread Michael Peel
There was discussion at 
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category_talk:2019%E2%80%9320_COVID-19_pandemic_by_country_and_territory
 

 - I’m not sure where it was on enwp. It does seem important to make it clear 
that this is a COVID-19 pandemic, not one due to another variant of coronavirus.

Thanks,
Mike

> On 15 Mar 2020, at 21:58, Andy Mabbett  wrote:
> 
> On Sun, 15 Mar 2020 at 20:56, Paulo Santos Perneta
>  wrote:
> 
>> Even worst, it's contaminating other projects, like Wikidata and Wikimedia
>> Commons, with teams of wiki.en editors going there to revert anyone that
>> dares to move the disease to its proper name.
> 
> Diffs, please.
> 
> -- 
> Andy Mabbett
> @pigsonthewing
> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
> 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WikiProject COVID-19 (English Wikipedia) is started

2020-03-15 Thread Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l
 I took images of an almost empty Milan Central train station even before i 
think there were any specific social distancing rule 
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Milano_Centrale_train_station_during_2019%E2%80%9320_coronavirus_pandemic_in_Italy
... and created few days later  
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Social_distancing
but overall I think the topic will be covered, on line there are always many 
images with the right licenses. 

I am more interested in people taking nice images of empty towns now that it's 
possible. For example when you walk for basic chores, stop for few minutes.

Alessandro




Il domenica 15 marzo 2020, 22:53:59 CET, Paulo Santos Perneta 
 ha scritto:  
 
 I photographed the COVID-19 isolation room at our local university (it's
precisely in front of the cabinet I usually work in), and created the
category for COVID-19 isolations:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:COVID-19_isolations

Best,
Paulo

Yaroslav Blanter  escreveu no dia domingo, 15/03/2020
à(s) 21:46:

> Just to remark that I went today to a supermarket to take a picture of
> empty shelves and eventually to upload it to Commons. Which I did (and
> eventually I added one of the photographs to an English Wikipedia article),
> just to discover that several people had the same idea before me, including
> one in my city. Still, the number of relevant pictures is laughably small,
> and now it is good time to take pictures for example of places which are
> normally overcrowded by tourists and now are empty. Or queues at the
> airports due to cancellations, We need to document the event (obviously not
> compromising on the safety), and anybody with a cell phone can easily
> contribute.
>
> Best
> Yaroslav
>
>
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Empty_chips_shelves_in_AH_Delft_02.jpg
>
>
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Empty_butter_shelves_in_AH_Delft_01.jpg
>
> On Sun, Mar 15, 2020 at 10:12 PM Pine W  wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > May I suggest that the discussion regarding the name take place
> > somewhere other than Wikimedia-l? I think that a talk page of one of
> > the relevant articles on English Wikipedia, a WikiProject Medicine
> > talk page, or the WikiProject Medicine Mailing List, would all be
> > reasonable venues.
> >
> > Pine
> > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> >
> > ___
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> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
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> > 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WikiProject COVID-19 (English Wikipedia) is started

2020-03-15 Thread Andy Mabbett
On Sun, 15 Mar 2020 at 21:07, Paulo Santos Perneta
 wrote:

>> Covid is an abreviaton for coronavirus disease.

> No, it's an abbreviation for *Coronavirus Disease 2019* [1]

That would make "COVID-19" mean "Coronavirus Disease 2019-19".

-- 
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WikiProject COVID-19 (English Wikipedia) is started

2020-03-15 Thread Andy Mabbett
On Sun, 15 Mar 2020 at 20:56, Paulo Santos Perneta
 wrote:

> Even worst, it's contaminating other projects, like Wikidata and Wikimedia
> Commons, with teams of wiki.en editors going there to revert anyone that
> dares to move the disease to its proper name.

Diffs, please.

-- 
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WikiProject COVID-19 (English Wikipedia) is started

2020-03-15 Thread Paulo Santos Perneta
I photographed the COVID-19 isolation room at our local university (it's
precisely in front of the cabinet I usually work in), and created the
category for COVID-19 isolations:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:COVID-19_isolations

Best,
Paulo

Yaroslav Blanter  escreveu no dia domingo, 15/03/2020
à(s) 21:46:

> Just to remark that I went today to a supermarket to take a picture of
> empty shelves and eventually to upload it to Commons. Which I did (and
> eventually I added one of the photographs to an English Wikipedia article),
> just to discover that several people had the same idea before me, including
> one in my city. Still, the number of relevant pictures is laughably small,
> and now it is good time to take pictures for example of places which are
> normally overcrowded by tourists and now are empty. Or queues at the
> airports due to cancellations, We need to document the event (obviously not
> compromising on the safety), and anybody with a cell phone can easily
> contribute.
>
> Best
> Yaroslav
>
>
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Empty_chips_shelves_in_AH_Delft_02.jpg
>
>
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Empty_butter_shelves_in_AH_Delft_01.jpg
>
> On Sun, Mar 15, 2020 at 10:12 PM Pine W  wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > May I suggest that the discussion regarding the name take place
> > somewhere other than Wikimedia-l? I think that a talk page of one of
> > the relevant articles on English Wikipedia, a WikiProject Medicine
> > talk page, or the WikiProject Medicine Mailing List, would all be
> > reasonable venues.
> >
> > Pine
> > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> >
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
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> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
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> > 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WikiProject COVID-19 (English Wikipedia) is started

2020-03-15 Thread Yaroslav Blanter
Just to remark that I went today to a supermarket to take a picture of
empty shelves and eventually to upload it to Commons. Which I did (and
eventually I added one of the photographs to an English Wikipedia article),
just to discover that several people had the same idea before me, including
one in my city. Still, the number of relevant pictures is laughably small,
and now it is good time to take pictures for example of places which are
normally overcrowded by tourists and now are empty. Or queues at the
airports due to cancellations, We need to document the event (obviously not
compromising on the safety), and anybody with a cell phone can easily
contribute.

Best
Yaroslav

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Empty_chips_shelves_in_AH_Delft_02.jpg

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Empty_butter_shelves_in_AH_Delft_01.jpg

On Sun, Mar 15, 2020 at 10:12 PM Pine W  wrote:

> Hello,
>
> May I suggest that the discussion regarding the name take place
> somewhere other than Wikimedia-l? I think that a talk page of one of
> the relevant articles on English Wikipedia, a WikiProject Medicine
> talk page, or the WikiProject Medicine Mailing List, would all be
> reasonable venues.
>
> Pine
> ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
>
> ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WikiProject COVID-19 (English Wikipedia) is started

2020-03-15 Thread Pine W
Hello,

May I suggest that the discussion regarding the name take place
somewhere other than Wikimedia-l? I think that a talk page of one of
the relevant articles on English Wikipedia, a WikiProject Medicine
talk page, or the WikiProject Medicine Mailing List, would all be
reasonable venues.

Pine
( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WikiProject COVID-19 (English Wikipedia) is started

2020-03-15 Thread Paulo Santos Perneta
No, it's an abbreviation for *Coronavirus Disease 2019* [1]. There are many
other "coronavirus diseases".

[1] - https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/about/index.html

Best,
Paulo

James Heilman  escreveu no dia domingo, 15/03/2020 à(s)
21:02:

> Covid is an abreviaton for coronavirus disease.
>
> J
>
> On Sun, Mar 15, 2020, 14:56 Paulo Santos Perneta 
> wrote:
>
> > Congratulations for the new project.
> >
> > Possibly you could start by moving the "coronavirus" pandemic articles at
> > wiki.en to the proper name of the disease, COVID-19.
> > No idea why the English Wikipedia insists naming this disease with the
> name
> > of a group of virus that causes a number of other different diseases,
> > instead of the WHO recognized name, providing misleading information and
> > opening fertile ground to all kind of fake news and disinformation
> selling
> > stuff for other coronavirus diseases as if it was COVID-19.
> > Even worst, it's contaminating other projects, like Wikidata and
> Wikimedia
> > Commons, with teams of wiki.en editors going there to revert anyone that
> > dares to move the disease to its proper name.
> >
> > Please help fix this, providing accurate information, specially at a
> > situation like this, is at the core of Wikipedia mission.
> >
> > Best,
> > Paulo
> >
> > Tito Dutta  escreveu no dia domingo, 15/03/2020
> à(s)
> > 19:47:
> >
> > > Please read the noticeboard/talk page link as:
> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_COVID-19. It
> > > looks
> > > like I had another noticeboard open at that time. Apologies for the
> wrong
> > > link in the last post.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > Tito Dutta
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, 16 Mar 2020 at 01:15, Tito Dutta  wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hello,
> > > > A few Wikipedians on English Wikipedia have decided to start a
> > > WikiProject
> > > > on COVID-19 on English Wikipedia to work more systematically and
> > > > collaboratively on the subject. The WikiProject is started by
> > > > [[User:Another Believer]] on 15 March, and very quickly got ~20
> > > > participants and several discussions started on the talk page.
> > > > Please have a look at WikiProject:
> > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_COVID-19
> > > > Questions or comments or suggestions at:
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Noticeboard_for_India-related_topics
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > > Tito Dutta
> > > > [[User:Titodutta]]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > ___
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> > > 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WikiProject COVID-19 (English Wikipedia) is started

2020-03-15 Thread James Heilman
Covid is an abreviaton for coronavirus disease.

J

On Sun, Mar 15, 2020, 14:56 Paulo Santos Perneta 
wrote:

> Congratulations for the new project.
>
> Possibly you could start by moving the "coronavirus" pandemic articles at
> wiki.en to the proper name of the disease, COVID-19.
> No idea why the English Wikipedia insists naming this disease with the name
> of a group of virus that causes a number of other different diseases,
> instead of the WHO recognized name, providing misleading information and
> opening fertile ground to all kind of fake news and disinformation selling
> stuff for other coronavirus diseases as if it was COVID-19.
> Even worst, it's contaminating other projects, like Wikidata and Wikimedia
> Commons, with teams of wiki.en editors going there to revert anyone that
> dares to move the disease to its proper name.
>
> Please help fix this, providing accurate information, specially at a
> situation like this, is at the core of Wikipedia mission.
>
> Best,
> Paulo
>
> Tito Dutta  escreveu no dia domingo, 15/03/2020 à(s)
> 19:47:
>
> > Please read the noticeboard/talk page link as:
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_COVID-19. It
> > looks
> > like I had another noticeboard open at that time. Apologies for the wrong
> > link in the last post.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Tito Dutta
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 16 Mar 2020 at 01:15, Tito Dutta  wrote:
> >
> > > Hello,
> > > A few Wikipedians on English Wikipedia have decided to start a
> > WikiProject
> > > on COVID-19 on English Wikipedia to work more systematically and
> > > collaboratively on the subject. The WikiProject is started by
> > > [[User:Another Believer]] on 15 March, and very quickly got ~20
> > > participants and several discussions started on the talk page.
> > > Please have a look at WikiProject:
> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_COVID-19
> > > Questions or comments or suggestions at:
> > >
> >
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Noticeboard_for_India-related_topics
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > Tito Dutta
> > > [[User:Titodutta]]
> > >
> > >
> > ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WikiProject COVID-19 (English Wikipedia) is started

2020-03-15 Thread Paulo Santos Perneta
Congratulations for the new project.

Possibly you could start by moving the "coronavirus" pandemic articles at
wiki.en to the proper name of the disease, COVID-19.
No idea why the English Wikipedia insists naming this disease with the name
of a group of virus that causes a number of other different diseases,
instead of the WHO recognized name, providing misleading information and
opening fertile ground to all kind of fake news and disinformation selling
stuff for other coronavirus diseases as if it was COVID-19.
Even worst, it's contaminating other projects, like Wikidata and Wikimedia
Commons, with teams of wiki.en editors going there to revert anyone that
dares to move the disease to its proper name.

Please help fix this, providing accurate information, specially at a
situation like this, is at the core of Wikipedia mission.

Best,
Paulo

Tito Dutta  escreveu no dia domingo, 15/03/2020 à(s)
19:47:

> Please read the noticeboard/talk page link as:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_COVID-19. It
> looks
> like I had another noticeboard open at that time. Apologies for the wrong
> link in the last post.
>
> Thanks
> Tito Dutta
>
>
> On Mon, 16 Mar 2020 at 01:15, Tito Dutta  wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> > A few Wikipedians on English Wikipedia have decided to start a
> WikiProject
> > on COVID-19 on English Wikipedia to work more systematically and
> > collaboratively on the subject. The WikiProject is started by
> > [[User:Another Believer]] on 15 March, and very quickly got ~20
> > participants and several discussions started on the talk page.
> > Please have a look at WikiProject:
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_COVID-19
> > Questions or comments or suggestions at:
> >
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Noticeboard_for_India-related_topics
> >
> > Thanks
> > Tito Dutta
> > [[User:Titodutta]]
> >
> >
> ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WikiProject COVID-19 (English Wikipedia) is started

2020-03-15 Thread Tito Dutta
Please read the noticeboard/talk page link as:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_COVID-19. It looks
like I had another noticeboard open at that time. Apologies for the wrong
link in the last post.

Thanks
Tito Dutta


On Mon, 16 Mar 2020 at 01:15, Tito Dutta  wrote:

> Hello,
> A few Wikipedians on English Wikipedia have decided to start a WikiProject
> on COVID-19 on English Wikipedia to work more systematically and
> collaboratively on the subject. The WikiProject is started by
> [[User:Another Believer]] on 15 March, and very quickly got ~20
> participants and several discussions started on the talk page.
> Please have a look at WikiProject:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_COVID-19
> Questions or comments or suggestions at:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Noticeboard_for_India-related_topics
>
> Thanks
> Tito Dutta
> [[User:Titodutta]]
>
>
___
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[Wikimedia-l] WikiProject COVID-19 (English Wikipedia) is started

2020-03-15 Thread Tito Dutta
Hello,
A few Wikipedians on English Wikipedia have decided to start a WikiProject
on COVID-19 on English Wikipedia to work more systematically and
collaboratively on the subject. The WikiProject is started by
[[User:Another Believer]] on 15 March, and very quickly got ~20
participants and several discussions started on the talk page.
Please have a look at WikiProject:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_COVID-19
Questions or comments or suggestions at:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Noticeboard_for_India-related_topics

Thanks
Tito Dutta
[[User:Titodutta]]
___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

2020-03-15 Thread Peter Southwood
Fair enough, I agree that the bias towards the English Wikipedia exists. It is 
natural and to be expected within English Wikipedia, but should not exist 
elsewhere in the Wikimedia community. I also agree that sometimes a regional 
bias exists because people from that region add more content, and we tend to 
add the content we know and care about and for which we have sources. I also 
agree that making Wikipedia the primary brand is likely to increase bias and 
tend to marginalise the non-Wikipedia projects even more.
Cheers, 
Peter

-Original Message-
From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of 
Gerard Meijssen
Sent: 15 March 2020 12:47
To: Wikimedia Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

Hoi,
Back your pardon. I do not blame the English Wikipedia for the
shortcomings of other Wikipedias. It does a reasonable job at informing an
English reading public. The point that I make is that we do not consider
how the bias towards English Wikipedia prevents us from reaching out and
sharing in the sum of all knowledge.

There is documentation that Cebuan Wikipedia articles are well presented
and provide a more complete coverage of the knowledge domains it covers.
Also please remember that all US places were added to English Wikipedia by
bot.

When I document bias, it is for you to understand that this bias exists. I
stopped writing in English Wikipedia because the American perspective was
more relevant that an international perspective.

At stake in this thread is making Wikipedia a central brand. I indicated
earlier that those living the English Wikipedia reality are not aware of
the negative effects of its bias. In effect you tell me to do something
about it. Well, I have been blogging about Wikimedia for the last 15 years
[1] and I learned that documentation may be relevant but it is unlikely to
make people see what is in front of them.
Thanks,
  GerardM

[1] https://ultimategerardm.blogspot.com/

On Sun, 15 Mar 2020 at 11:16, Peter Southwood 
wrote:

> It is grossly unrealistic to blame English Wikipedia and its editing
> community for what you appear to consider the shortcomings of other
> Wikipedias. En: does not require or pressurise other projects to comply
> with its editorial standards, which are those developed by en:WP, and for
> en:WP. Other projects are free to set and use their own standards for
> content, within the general WMF terms of use, and generally do. If they
> choose to emulate en:WP that is their prerogative.
> If you think that Cebuan Wikipedia does a better job of informing on the
> subject matter it covers than other projects, and would like to convince
> other projects that this is a realistic and rational opinion, and that they
> should follow that example, you are free to produce documentary evidence
> from experts that this is the case, and present it to the editing
> communities of those projects for consideration.
> If Commons are exceeding their remit by refusing to host material that is
> not used on en:WP, that is not the policy or the fault of the en:WP
> community who have no authority over Commons.
> As a general rule, when discussing a topic where there is scope for
> confusion, there is less likely for confusion to occur when you are
> sufficiently specific when referring to the ambiguous entities.
> Cheers,
> Peter
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On
> Behalf Of Gerard Meijssen
> Sent: 15 March 2020 08:37
> To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?
>
> Hoi,
> By making the point that there is no Wikipedia AND that almost universally
> but particularly people who buy into English Wikipedia consider Wikipedia
> English Wikipedia, I expected that this is understood. I then address
> English Wikipedia specifically because it is its conventions that prevent
> the sum of all our knowledge to be shared.
>
> Just to make that point specific, Cebuan Wikipedia does a better job
> informing on the total of the subject matters it covers, it is a project of
> a father who wants his children to have access to knowledge in their
> maternal language. From a Wiki point of view he deserves praise and
> gratitude in stead he gets scorn because it is against English Wikipedia
> conventions. Furthermore the approach of using data to bring knowledge in
> other languages is frustrated from within WMF.  We could do a better job, a
> job that will work for any language but it is actively discouraged. The
> result is that we do NOT share in the sum of all knowledge, not even the
> knowledge that is available to us. In other words, English Wikipedia
> conventions prevent us from working towards our stated goal.
> Thanks,
>GerardM
>
> On Sun, 15 Mar 2020 at 06:19, Peter Southwood <
> peter.southw...@telkomsa.net>
> wrote:
>
> > Gerard, You start off by correctly specifying that 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

2020-03-15 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi,
I would rather answer a different question: What would it take for us to
share the sum of all knowledge available to us to any and all people in any
and all languages they can read.

The benefit of such a marketing approach and not an antagonistic approach
is that English Wikipedia may do what it does, it may even fit in with what
is shown to work. When we are to share the sum of all the knowledge
available to us, we seek out where this information is and, how we open it
up best to our public. Let me be clear, so far the English Wikipedia has
been my go to project to liberate information to Wikidata. Once it it
there, it becomes easier to provide proper disambiguation and prevent false
friends to pop up later. Maintenance is easier; you do it only once for any
and all our projects.

We have come a long way in getting to the point where Commons is truly
multilingual.. My favourite example is "appelmoes" [1]. What we now really
need is have marketeers to opening Commons up to a public. We should talk
to Google and seek synergy, Commons is valuable when people are to use
legal material for illustration. They have to find it first.

The same goes for Wikisource, what is available for use to a public. How do
we leverage what we have and find all this hard work a public.

We do need research. We do need marketing research and we need a marketing
approach to getting the sum of the knowledge that we have to a public. I do
not want to argue the rights and wrongs of English Wikipedia. I trust them
to appreciate that they are part of the Wikimedia mission to get the public
well informed and provide our information with a neural point of view.
Never mind where this information is or in what language.
Thanks,
   GerardM



[1]
https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch=haswbstatement%3AP180%3DQ618345=1=1=1=1=1=1

On Sun, 15 Mar 2020 at 16:48, Peter Southwood 
wrote:

> The question then is whether it is the community of English Wikipedia
> exerting this influence, or WMF failing to allocate resources fairly, and
> if so, why? Is it just that the massive internet presence of English
> Wikipedia exerts an irresistible gravitational attraction on the resources
> like a black hole?
> Cheers,
> Peter
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On
> Behalf Of Aron Demian
> Sent: 15 March 2020 12:25
> To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?
>
> My 2 cents: Imho the pressure from English Wikipedia on other projects of
> the movement is very realistic in many kinds of matters, that I've
> experienced myself too. Other projects are not independent socially or
> culturally, the rules, practices, expectations and editorial behaviour is
> strongly related to that on enwp with all its positive *and* negative
> benefits. Often the negative benefits seem to outweigh the positive,
> unfortunately.
>
> Aron
>
> On Sun, 15 Mar 2020 at 11:17, Peter Southwood <
> peter.southw...@telkomsa.net>
> wrote:
>
> > It is grossly unrealistic to blame English Wikipedia and its editing
> > community for what you appear to consider the shortcomings of other
> > Wikipedias.
>
> En: does not require or pressurise other projects to comply with its
> > editorial standards, which are those developed by en:WP, and for en:WP.
> > Other projects are free to set and use their own standards for content,
> > within the general WMF terms of use, and generally do. If they choose to
> > emulate en:WP that is their prerogative.
> > If you think that Cebuan Wikipedia does a better job of informing on the
> > subject matter it covers than other projects, and would like to convince
> > other projects that this is a realistic and rational opinion, and that
> they
> > should follow that example, you are free to produce documentary evidence
> > from experts that this is the case, and present it to the editing
> > communities of those projects for consideration.
> > If Commons are exceeding their remit by refusing to host material that is
> > not used on en:WP, that is not the policy or the fault of the en:WP
> > community who have no authority over Commons.
> > As a general rule, when discussing a topic where there is scope for
> > confusion, there is less likely for confusion to occur when you are
> > sufficiently specific when referring to the ambiguous entities.
> > Cheers,
> > Peter
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On
> > Behalf Of Gerard Meijssen
> > Sent: 15 March 2020 08:37
> > To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?
> >
> > Hoi,
> > By making the point that there is no Wikipedia AND that almost
> universally
> > but particularly people who buy into English Wikipedia consider Wikipedia
> > English Wikipedia, I expected that this is understood. I then address
> > English Wikipedia specifically 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia-l Digest, Vol 192, Issue 28

2020-03-15 Thread joko suwito
Send email. Thank you.

Pada tanggal Min, 15 Mar 2020 19.01, <
wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org> menulis:

> Send Wikimedia-l mailing list submissions to
> wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>
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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Wikimedia-l digest..."
> Today's Topics:
>
>1. Re: Brand Project: Who are we as a movement? (Aron Demian)
>2. Re: Brand Project: Who are we as a movement? (Gerard Meijssen)
>
>
>
> -- Forwarded message --
> From: Aron Demian 
> To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2020 11:24:51 +0100
> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?
> My 2 cents: Imho the pressure from English Wikipedia on other projects of
> the movement is very realistic in many kinds of matters, that I've
> experienced myself too. Other projects are not independent socially or
> culturally, the rules, practices, expectations and editorial behaviour is
> strongly related to that on enwp with all its positive *and* negative
> benefits. Often the negative benefits seem to outweigh the positive,
> unfortunately.
>
> Aron
>
> On Sun, 15 Mar 2020 at 11:17, Peter Southwood <
> peter.southw...@telkomsa.net>
> wrote:
>
> > It is grossly unrealistic to blame English Wikipedia and its editing
> > community for what you appear to consider the shortcomings of other
> > Wikipedias.
>
> En: does not require or pressurise other projects to comply with its
> > editorial standards, which are those developed by en:WP, and for en:WP.
> > Other projects are free to set and use their own standards for content,
> > within the general WMF terms of use, and generally do. If they choose to
> > emulate en:WP that is their prerogative.
> > If you think that Cebuan Wikipedia does a better job of informing on the
> > subject matter it covers than other projects, and would like to convince
> > other projects that this is a realistic and rational opinion, and that
> they
> > should follow that example, you are free to produce documentary evidence
> > from experts that this is the case, and present it to the editing
> > communities of those projects for consideration.
> > If Commons are exceeding their remit by refusing to host material that is
> > not used on en:WP, that is not the policy or the fault of the en:WP
> > community who have no authority over Commons.
> > As a general rule, when discussing a topic where there is scope for
> > confusion, there is less likely for confusion to occur when you are
> > sufficiently specific when referring to the ambiguous entities.
> > Cheers,
> > Peter
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On
> > Behalf Of Gerard Meijssen
> > Sent: 15 March 2020 08:37
> > To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?
> >
> > Hoi,
> > By making the point that there is no Wikipedia AND that almost
> universally
> > but particularly people who buy into English Wikipedia consider Wikipedia
> > English Wikipedia, I expected that this is understood. I then address
> > English Wikipedia specifically because it is its conventions that prevent
> > the sum of all our knowledge to be shared.
> >
> > Just to make that point specific, Cebuan Wikipedia does a better job
> > informing on the total of the subject matters it covers, it is a project
> of
> > a father who wants his children to have access to knowledge in their
> > maternal language. From a Wiki point of view he deserves praise and
> > gratitude in stead he gets scorn because it is against English Wikipedia
> > conventions. Furthermore the approach of using data to bring knowledge in
> > other languages is frustrated from within WMF.  We could do a better
> job, a
> > job that will work for any language but it is actively discouraged. The
> > result is that we do NOT share in the sum of all knowledge, not even the
> > knowledge that is available to us. In other words, English Wikipedia
> > conventions prevent us from working towards our stated goal.
> > Thanks,
> >GerardM
> >
> > On Sun, 15 Mar 2020 at 06:19, Peter Southwood <
> > peter.southw...@telkomsa.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Gerard, You start off by correctly specifying that Wikipedia is about
> 300
> > > projects and make several good points about how people confuse
> Wikipedia
> > > with English Wikipedia, how this bias adversely affects various other
> > > projects, and then claim that "Wikipedia" is "universally understood to
> > be
> > > highly toxic".  Are you referring to all 300 odd projects, or are you
> > using

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

2020-03-15 Thread Peter Southwood
The question then is whether it is the community of English Wikipedia exerting 
this influence, or WMF failing to allocate resources fairly, and if so, why? Is 
it just that the massive internet presence of English Wikipedia exerts an 
irresistible gravitational attraction on the resources like a black hole?
Cheers, 
Peter

-Original Message-
From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of 
Aron Demian
Sent: 15 March 2020 12:25
To: Wikimedia Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

My 2 cents: Imho the pressure from English Wikipedia on other projects of
the movement is very realistic in many kinds of matters, that I've
experienced myself too. Other projects are not independent socially or
culturally, the rules, practices, expectations and editorial behaviour is
strongly related to that on enwp with all its positive *and* negative
benefits. Often the negative benefits seem to outweigh the positive,
unfortunately.

Aron

On Sun, 15 Mar 2020 at 11:17, Peter Southwood 
wrote:

> It is grossly unrealistic to blame English Wikipedia and its editing
> community for what you appear to consider the shortcomings of other
> Wikipedias.

En: does not require or pressurise other projects to comply with its
> editorial standards, which are those developed by en:WP, and for en:WP.
> Other projects are free to set and use their own standards for content,
> within the general WMF terms of use, and generally do. If they choose to
> emulate en:WP that is their prerogative.
> If you think that Cebuan Wikipedia does a better job of informing on the
> subject matter it covers than other projects, and would like to convince
> other projects that this is a realistic and rational opinion, and that they
> should follow that example, you are free to produce documentary evidence
> from experts that this is the case, and present it to the editing
> communities of those projects for consideration.
> If Commons are exceeding their remit by refusing to host material that is
> not used on en:WP, that is not the policy or the fault of the en:WP
> community who have no authority over Commons.
> As a general rule, when discussing a topic where there is scope for
> confusion, there is less likely for confusion to occur when you are
> sufficiently specific when referring to the ambiguous entities.
> Cheers,
> Peter
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On
> Behalf Of Gerard Meijssen
> Sent: 15 March 2020 08:37
> To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?
>
> Hoi,
> By making the point that there is no Wikipedia AND that almost universally
> but particularly people who buy into English Wikipedia consider Wikipedia
> English Wikipedia, I expected that this is understood. I then address
> English Wikipedia specifically because it is its conventions that prevent
> the sum of all our knowledge to be shared.
>
> Just to make that point specific, Cebuan Wikipedia does a better job
> informing on the total of the subject matters it covers, it is a project of
> a father who wants his children to have access to knowledge in their
> maternal language. From a Wiki point of view he deserves praise and
> gratitude in stead he gets scorn because it is against English Wikipedia
> conventions. Furthermore the approach of using data to bring knowledge in
> other languages is frustrated from within WMF.  We could do a better job, a
> job that will work for any language but it is actively discouraged. The
> result is that we do NOT share in the sum of all knowledge, not even the
> knowledge that is available to us. In other words, English Wikipedia
> conventions prevent us from working towards our stated goal.
> Thanks,
>GerardM
>
> On Sun, 15 Mar 2020 at 06:19, Peter Southwood <
> peter.southw...@telkomsa.net>
> wrote:
>
> > Gerard, You start off by correctly specifying that Wikipedia is about 300
> > projects and make several good points about how people confuse Wikipedia
> > with English Wikipedia, how this bias adversely affects various other
> > projects, and then claim that "Wikipedia" is "universally understood to
> be
> > highly toxic".  Are you referring to all 300 odd projects, or are you
> using
> > the generic term for the specific project in the way you previously
> > objected to? Something else that is not obvious?
> > Cheers,
> > Peter
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On
> > Behalf Of Gerard Meijssen
> > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2020 2:12 PM
> > To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?
> >
> > Hoi,
> > Essie, the work done by Snøhetta centres on the notion of Wikipedia as a
> > unifying brand. The problem is that Wikipedia on its own is 300 projects
> > and that for many, if not most people English Wikipedia *is 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

2020-03-15 Thread Samuel Klein
Hello Essie,

Given all of the feedback so far, it seems we need a strong brand *network*,
more than a struggle over a single brand; and strong shared identity
*within* the communities and their contributors.

I am glad that recent discussions seem to be grounded in identity and
clarity.  If we want to start leading more with Wikipedia in outreach, in
every language of the world, *nothing* is stopping us.  But a* re*branding &
the resulting ongoing turmoil would have a predictable cost, at a time when
we have many other things to focus on, that needs to be balanced with
obvious gain.



Thank you (all) for your extensive work on this.  It would help to be even
more exquisitely clear about the expected outcomes in May and beyond.*

Wikilove, SJ

* I still think of the Wikidata newsletter as a model of regular clarity in
terms of setting expectations.



On Fri., Mar. 13, 2020, 1:33 p.m. Essie Zar,  wrote:

> Hello Everyone,
>
> There are some new updates and opportunities to engage with the Brand
> project. Thank you to Lodewijk for bringing some attention to a few of
> these opportunities. We were actively drafting this update for this group
> when your email went out.
>
> As Zack indicated in September,[1] we have been regularly discussing with
> the members of the brand network (which people can still join )[2] ideas
> around an evolved brand system with "Wikipedia" as a center point. To
> assist in this evolution of the movement brand, we chose to partner with
> Snøhetta,[3] an internationally renowned design firm known for working on
> complex and multi-stakeholder projects like the modern Library of
> Alexandria (Bibliotheca Alexandrina) and the 9/11 Memorial in New York
> City. Snøhetta has been tasked with figuring out precisely what this
> improved brand system will look like. They will release a proposed naming
> convention for movement-wide feedback in April, and a proposed design for
> movement-wide feedback in May. [4] The result of this process will be a new
> branding system that will be opt-in for affiliates.
>
> In order to have enough knowledge and context to arrive at these proposals,
> Snøhetta is reviewing feedback from the many points at which it has already
> been given, and has created a process with built-in community involvement.
> The
> process thus far has included workshops in Norway, India and online with 97
> volunteers from the brand network (movement affiliates, volunteers,
> foundation staff, and board members) reflecting 41 nations. At the
> workshops, community participants were asked to break into small groups to
> answer the question "Who are we?". Through these workshops, groups
> developed rich concepts* that they think best represent who we are as a
> movement.
>
> Now, we would like to invite you to review the 23 concepts that came out of
> the community workshops by “liking” and providing feedback on the one(s)
> you think best represent the Wikimedia movement. You can click on any
> concept to see an expanded explanation and photos of the actual concepts
> built or selected by workshop participants.
>
> Approximate time to complete this exercise is around 10-15 min.
>
> https://brandingwikipedia.org/concepts/
>
> Feel free to leave feedback directly on Snøhetta’s website, on the project
> talk page on Meta [5], or on the Brand Network [2], which will also be
> available on Meta starting next month.
>
> Snøhetta will use the feedback from the concepts to develop one single
> concept to act as a tool that will help guide the proposals around naming
> (expected for April) and around design (expected around May). They are
> scheduled to begin reviewing feedback on Tuesday, 17 March, but can
> continue taking feedback for a few more days if there is interest.
>
> We also invite you to share what free knowledge means to you in Snøhetta's
> open exercise. Please take a moment and share your thoughts in any of the
> channels mentioned.
>
>
> https://brandingwikipedia.org/2020/02/17/what-does-free-knowledge-mean-to-you/
>
> Finally, we want to acknowledge that we have feedback, from various points
> in this process so far, from several communities and in several areas of
> the wikis, including Meta. We understand that some people believe that we
> don’t need this project. Our shared vision is for every single human being
> to freely share in the sum of all knowledge -- and that means billions of
> people. There are many people and cultures we still need to reach and
> include. We will need a strong well known brand to achieve the goals the
> movement has set for itself and we have a lot of work to do to get us
> there.
>
> Want to learn more? Check out the project hub at brandingwikipedia.org and
> the project page on Meta [5]. Participate in discussions on the project
> talk page, or by joining the Brand Network [2]. Also feel free to drop us a
> note at brandproj...@wikimedia.org if you have questions.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Essie Zar
>
> (from the movement brand identity 

[Wikimedia-l] Cautionary steps from Wikimedia Bangladesh in response to COVID-19 pandemic

2020-03-15 Thread Shabab Mustafa
Wikimedia Bangladesh has been closely observing the developments and
impacts of the COVID-19 pandemic worldwide including Bangladesh. In
response of recent outbreak reported in Bangladesh, the Executive Committee
of Wikimedia Bangladesh held an emergency online meeting and come upon to
the following decisions:

To prevent the possible spread of coronavirus and to ensure the health and
safety of the members of the Wikimedia community, all offline activities
(meetups, workshops, seminars) and in-person public events related to
Wikimedia Bangladesh and its sub-regional communities have been suspended
until further notice, effective from March 14, 2020.

Simultaneously, the Bangla Wikipedia Annual Conference which was scheduled
next April has been canceled. The Annual General Meeting of Wikimedia
Bangladesh and the award ceremony of WLE 2019 and WLM 2019 has been
postponed until further announcement.

Wikimedia Bangladesh urges to all Wikipedia and Wikimedia project
contributors to follow the public health advice to ensure their health and
safety.
---
Shabab Mustafa
President
Wikimedia Bangladesh
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

2020-03-15 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi,
Back your pardon. I do not blame the English Wikipedia for the
shortcomings of other Wikipedias. It does a reasonable job at informing an
English reading public. The point that I make is that we do not consider
how the bias towards English Wikipedia prevents us from reaching out and
sharing in the sum of all knowledge.

There is documentation that Cebuan Wikipedia articles are well presented
and provide a more complete coverage of the knowledge domains it covers.
Also please remember that all US places were added to English Wikipedia by
bot.

When I document bias, it is for you to understand that this bias exists. I
stopped writing in English Wikipedia because the American perspective was
more relevant that an international perspective.

At stake in this thread is making Wikipedia a central brand. I indicated
earlier that those living the English Wikipedia reality are not aware of
the negative effects of its bias. In effect you tell me to do something
about it. Well, I have been blogging about Wikimedia for the last 15 years
[1] and I learned that documentation may be relevant but it is unlikely to
make people see what is in front of them.
Thanks,
  GerardM

[1] https://ultimategerardm.blogspot.com/

On Sun, 15 Mar 2020 at 11:16, Peter Southwood 
wrote:

> It is grossly unrealistic to blame English Wikipedia and its editing
> community for what you appear to consider the shortcomings of other
> Wikipedias. En: does not require or pressurise other projects to comply
> with its editorial standards, which are those developed by en:WP, and for
> en:WP. Other projects are free to set and use their own standards for
> content, within the general WMF terms of use, and generally do. If they
> choose to emulate en:WP that is their prerogative.
> If you think that Cebuan Wikipedia does a better job of informing on the
> subject matter it covers than other projects, and would like to convince
> other projects that this is a realistic and rational opinion, and that they
> should follow that example, you are free to produce documentary evidence
> from experts that this is the case, and present it to the editing
> communities of those projects for consideration.
> If Commons are exceeding their remit by refusing to host material that is
> not used on en:WP, that is not the policy or the fault of the en:WP
> community who have no authority over Commons.
> As a general rule, when discussing a topic where there is scope for
> confusion, there is less likely for confusion to occur when you are
> sufficiently specific when referring to the ambiguous entities.
> Cheers,
> Peter
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On
> Behalf Of Gerard Meijssen
> Sent: 15 March 2020 08:37
> To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?
>
> Hoi,
> By making the point that there is no Wikipedia AND that almost universally
> but particularly people who buy into English Wikipedia consider Wikipedia
> English Wikipedia, I expected that this is understood. I then address
> English Wikipedia specifically because it is its conventions that prevent
> the sum of all our knowledge to be shared.
>
> Just to make that point specific, Cebuan Wikipedia does a better job
> informing on the total of the subject matters it covers, it is a project of
> a father who wants his children to have access to knowledge in their
> maternal language. From a Wiki point of view he deserves praise and
> gratitude in stead he gets scorn because it is against English Wikipedia
> conventions. Furthermore the approach of using data to bring knowledge in
> other languages is frustrated from within WMF.  We could do a better job, a
> job that will work for any language but it is actively discouraged. The
> result is that we do NOT share in the sum of all knowledge, not even the
> knowledge that is available to us. In other words, English Wikipedia
> conventions prevent us from working towards our stated goal.
> Thanks,
>GerardM
>
> On Sun, 15 Mar 2020 at 06:19, Peter Southwood <
> peter.southw...@telkomsa.net>
> wrote:
>
> > Gerard, You start off by correctly specifying that Wikipedia is about 300
> > projects and make several good points about how people confuse Wikipedia
> > with English Wikipedia, how this bias adversely affects various other
> > projects, and then claim that "Wikipedia" is "universally understood to
> be
> > highly toxic".  Are you referring to all 300 odd projects, or are you
> using
> > the generic term for the specific project in the way you previously
> > objected to? Something else that is not obvious?
> > Cheers,
> > Peter
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On
> > Behalf Of Gerard Meijssen
> > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2020 2:12 PM
> > To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?
> >
> > Hoi,
> > 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

2020-03-15 Thread Aron Demian
My 2 cents: Imho the pressure from English Wikipedia on other projects of
the movement is very realistic in many kinds of matters, that I've
experienced myself too. Other projects are not independent socially or
culturally, the rules, practices, expectations and editorial behaviour is
strongly related to that on enwp with all its positive *and* negative
benefits. Often the negative benefits seem to outweigh the positive,
unfortunately.

Aron

On Sun, 15 Mar 2020 at 11:17, Peter Southwood 
wrote:

> It is grossly unrealistic to blame English Wikipedia and its editing
> community for what you appear to consider the shortcomings of other
> Wikipedias.

En: does not require or pressurise other projects to comply with its
> editorial standards, which are those developed by en:WP, and for en:WP.
> Other projects are free to set and use their own standards for content,
> within the general WMF terms of use, and generally do. If they choose to
> emulate en:WP that is their prerogative.
> If you think that Cebuan Wikipedia does a better job of informing on the
> subject matter it covers than other projects, and would like to convince
> other projects that this is a realistic and rational opinion, and that they
> should follow that example, you are free to produce documentary evidence
> from experts that this is the case, and present it to the editing
> communities of those projects for consideration.
> If Commons are exceeding their remit by refusing to host material that is
> not used on en:WP, that is not the policy or the fault of the en:WP
> community who have no authority over Commons.
> As a general rule, when discussing a topic where there is scope for
> confusion, there is less likely for confusion to occur when you are
> sufficiently specific when referring to the ambiguous entities.
> Cheers,
> Peter
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On
> Behalf Of Gerard Meijssen
> Sent: 15 March 2020 08:37
> To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?
>
> Hoi,
> By making the point that there is no Wikipedia AND that almost universally
> but particularly people who buy into English Wikipedia consider Wikipedia
> English Wikipedia, I expected that this is understood. I then address
> English Wikipedia specifically because it is its conventions that prevent
> the sum of all our knowledge to be shared.
>
> Just to make that point specific, Cebuan Wikipedia does a better job
> informing on the total of the subject matters it covers, it is a project of
> a father who wants his children to have access to knowledge in their
> maternal language. From a Wiki point of view he deserves praise and
> gratitude in stead he gets scorn because it is against English Wikipedia
> conventions. Furthermore the approach of using data to bring knowledge in
> other languages is frustrated from within WMF.  We could do a better job, a
> job that will work for any language but it is actively discouraged. The
> result is that we do NOT share in the sum of all knowledge, not even the
> knowledge that is available to us. In other words, English Wikipedia
> conventions prevent us from working towards our stated goal.
> Thanks,
>GerardM
>
> On Sun, 15 Mar 2020 at 06:19, Peter Southwood <
> peter.southw...@telkomsa.net>
> wrote:
>
> > Gerard, You start off by correctly specifying that Wikipedia is about 300
> > projects and make several good points about how people confuse Wikipedia
> > with English Wikipedia, how this bias adversely affects various other
> > projects, and then claim that "Wikipedia" is "universally understood to
> be
> > highly toxic".  Are you referring to all 300 odd projects, or are you
> using
> > the generic term for the specific project in the way you previously
> > objected to? Something else that is not obvious?
> > Cheers,
> > Peter
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On
> > Behalf Of Gerard Meijssen
> > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2020 2:12 PM
> > To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?
> >
> > Hoi,
> > Essie, the work done by Snøhetta centres on the notion of Wikipedia as a
> > unifying brand. The problem is that Wikipedia on its own is 300 projects
> > and that for many, if not most people English Wikipedia *is *Wikipedia.
> >
> > When we are all to be Wikipedia we will all suffer from the bias that
> > English Wikipedia brings us. The problem with bias is that the negative
> > effects are not felt, considered by those people who self identify with
> > English Wikipedia.
> >
> > * Research centres on English Wikipedia, when research is done for
> projects
> > other than English Wikipedia, it is hard to get research published
> > * New functionality is almost always written for the English Wikipedia,
> the
> > notion of the "other languages" is often not considered in the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

2020-03-15 Thread Peter Southwood
It is grossly unrealistic to blame English Wikipedia and its editing community 
for what you appear to consider the shortcomings of other Wikipedias. En: does 
not require or pressurise other projects to comply with its editorial 
standards, which are those developed by en:WP, and for en:WP. Other projects 
are free to set and use their own standards for content, within the general WMF 
terms of use, and generally do. If they choose to emulate en:WP that is their 
prerogative.
If you think that Cebuan Wikipedia does a better job of informing on the 
subject matter it covers than other projects, and would like to convince other 
projects that this is a realistic and rational opinion, and that they should 
follow that example, you are free to produce documentary evidence from experts 
that this is the case, and present it to the editing communities of those 
projects for consideration. 
If Commons are exceeding their remit by refusing to host material that is not 
used on en:WP, that is not the policy or the fault of the en:WP community who 
have no authority over Commons.
As a general rule, when discussing a topic where there is scope for confusion, 
there is less likely for confusion to occur when you are sufficiently specific 
when referring to the ambiguous entities.
Cheers, 
Peter

-Original Message-
From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of 
Gerard Meijssen
Sent: 15 March 2020 08:37
To: Wikimedia Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

Hoi,
By making the point that there is no Wikipedia AND that almost universally
but particularly people who buy into English Wikipedia consider Wikipedia
English Wikipedia, I expected that this is understood. I then address
English Wikipedia specifically because it is its conventions that prevent
the sum of all our knowledge to be shared.

Just to make that point specific, Cebuan Wikipedia does a better job
informing on the total of the subject matters it covers, it is a project of
a father who wants his children to have access to knowledge in their
maternal language. From a Wiki point of view he deserves praise and
gratitude in stead he gets scorn because it is against English Wikipedia
conventions. Furthermore the approach of using data to bring knowledge in
other languages is frustrated from within WMF.  We could do a better job, a
job that will work for any language but it is actively discouraged. The
result is that we do NOT share in the sum of all knowledge, not even the
knowledge that is available to us. In other words, English Wikipedia
conventions prevent us from working towards our stated goal.
Thanks,
   GerardM

On Sun, 15 Mar 2020 at 06:19, Peter Southwood 
wrote:

> Gerard, You start off by correctly specifying that Wikipedia is about 300
> projects and make several good points about how people confuse Wikipedia
> with English Wikipedia, how this bias adversely affects various other
> projects, and then claim that "Wikipedia" is "universally understood to be
> highly toxic".  Are you referring to all 300 odd projects, or are you using
> the generic term for the specific project in the way you previously
> objected to? Something else that is not obvious?
> Cheers,
> Peter
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On
> Behalf Of Gerard Meijssen
> Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2020 2:12 PM
> To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?
>
> Hoi,
> Essie, the work done by Snøhetta centres on the notion of Wikipedia as a
> unifying brand. The problem is that Wikipedia on its own is 300 projects
> and that for many, if not most people English Wikipedia *is *Wikipedia.
>
> When we are all to be Wikipedia we will all suffer from the bias that
> English Wikipedia brings us. The problem with bias is that the negative
> effects are not felt, considered by those people who self identify with
> English Wikipedia.
>
> * Research centres on English Wikipedia, when research is done for projects
> other than English Wikipedia, it is hard to get research published
> * New functionality is almost always written for the English Wikipedia, the
> notion of the "other languages" is often not considered in the architecture
> * It is assumed that functionality works for projects other than Wikipedia,
> specific functionality is hardly ever developed
> * In OTRS, the notions of notability are hard coded for English notability.
> Consequently many pictures have been removed that were explicitly requested
> for use with Wikidata
> * there has been no marketing for other Wikimedia products - products. Many
> Wikisource books are available in final form. We do not serve a purpose
> because we do not seek an audience for them
> * even though internationalisation and localisation for MediaWiki is really
> good, we do not consider how we can make use of data in other languages.
>
> It is 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

2020-03-15 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi,
By making the point that there is no Wikipedia AND that almost universally
but particularly people who buy into English Wikipedia consider Wikipedia
English Wikipedia, I expected that this is understood. I then address
English Wikipedia specifically because it is its conventions that prevent
the sum of all our knowledge to be shared.

Just to make that point specific, Cebuan Wikipedia does a better job
informing on the total of the subject matters it covers, it is a project of
a father who wants his children to have access to knowledge in their
maternal language. From a Wiki point of view he deserves praise and
gratitude in stead he gets scorn because it is against English Wikipedia
conventions. Furthermore the approach of using data to bring knowledge in
other languages is frustrated from within WMF.  We could do a better job, a
job that will work for any language but it is actively discouraged. The
result is that we do NOT share in the sum of all knowledge, not even the
knowledge that is available to us. In other words, English Wikipedia
conventions prevent us from working towards our stated goal.
Thanks,
   GerardM

On Sun, 15 Mar 2020 at 06:19, Peter Southwood 
wrote:

> Gerard, You start off by correctly specifying that Wikipedia is about 300
> projects and make several good points about how people confuse Wikipedia
> with English Wikipedia, how this bias adversely affects various other
> projects, and then claim that "Wikipedia" is "universally understood to be
> highly toxic".  Are you referring to all 300 odd projects, or are you using
> the generic term for the specific project in the way you previously
> objected to? Something else that is not obvious?
> Cheers,
> Peter
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On
> Behalf Of Gerard Meijssen
> Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2020 2:12 PM
> To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?
>
> Hoi,
> Essie, the work done by Snøhetta centres on the notion of Wikipedia as a
> unifying brand. The problem is that Wikipedia on its own is 300 projects
> and that for many, if not most people English Wikipedia *is *Wikipedia.
>
> When we are all to be Wikipedia we will all suffer from the bias that
> English Wikipedia brings us. The problem with bias is that the negative
> effects are not felt, considered by those people who self identify with
> English Wikipedia.
>
> * Research centres on English Wikipedia, when research is done for projects
> other than English Wikipedia, it is hard to get research published
> * New functionality is almost always written for the English Wikipedia, the
> notion of the "other languages" is often not considered in the architecture
> * It is assumed that functionality works for projects other than Wikipedia,
> specific functionality is hardly ever developed
> * In OTRS, the notions of notability are hard coded for English notability.
> Consequently many pictures have been removed that were explicitly requested
> for use with Wikidata
> * there has been no marketing for other Wikimedia products - products. Many
> Wikisource books are available in final form. We do not serve a purpose
> because we do not seek an audience for them
> * even though internationalisation and localisation for MediaWiki is really
> good, we do not consider how we can make use of data in other languages.
>
> It is universally understood that Wikipedia is highly toxic and it may be
> that for external marketing Wikipedia makes sense. Internally I will
> welcome a unified message only once English Wikipedia accepts that its
> consensus is not considered as "Wikipedia" consensus.. Our aim is to share
> in the sum of all knowledge and it is not only in English and it is not
> what English Wikipedia deems notable.
> Thanks,
>GerardM
>
> On Fri, 13 Mar 2020 at 18:33, Essie Zar  wrote:
>
> > Hello Everyone,
> >
> > There are some new updates and opportunities to engage with the Brand
> > project. Thank you to Lodewijk for bringing some attention to a few of
> > these opportunities. We were actively drafting this update for this group
> > when your email went out.
> >
> > As Zack indicated in September,[1] we have been regularly discussing with
> > the members of the brand network (which people can still join )[2] ideas
> > around an evolved brand system with "Wikipedia" as a center point. To
> > assist in this evolution of the movement brand, we chose to partner with
> > Snøhetta,[3] an internationally renowned design firm known for working on
> > complex and multi-stakeholder projects like the modern Library of
> > Alexandria (Bibliotheca Alexandrina) and the 9/11 Memorial in New York
> > City. Snøhetta has been tasked with figuring out precisely what this
> > improved brand system will look like. They will release a proposed naming
> > convention for movement-wide feedback in April, and a proposed design for
> > movement-wide feedback in 

[Wikimedia-l] February 2020 Newsletter [OFWA]

2020-03-15 Thread Joy Agyepong
Hello Everyone!

Happy Women's History Month!

We are happy to share with you activities that happened in February in our
newsletter  and
some virtual activities to be held in this month.

Please subscribe to keep updated.

Cheers, stay safe and do enjoy!


Joy Agyepong,
Open Foundation West Africa
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New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
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