Re: [Wikimedia-l] RE : Moving the technical infrastructure out of the US

2020-10-01 Thread Pascal Martin
Me again Antoine, 


I remembered this partnership between WMF and Orange, the French telecom
operator. 


https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Press_releases/Orange_and_Wikimedia_announce_partnership_April_2009/en


It seems to me to remember that during this partnership that the
database was replicated on Orange's servers in read mode, but I'm not on
that date a bit and my memory is failing me can be asked for
confirmation from Brion Vibber . 


If this is the case, Orange had taken the risk of hosting the data and
Orange was never bothered too :) 


The noticeable difference is that Orange offered money not a resilient
solution that the Criann is capable of accommodating. 

Regards, 
Pascal 


Le 2020-10-01 22:57, Pascal Martin a écrit :


Good evening Antoine,

France is a country full of laws which are not respected, it is the old 
continent that you want :)
Ex: it was not until 2013 that women could wear pants in Paris, and I assure 
you that women wore pants before that date.

https://www.liberation.fr/france/2013/02/04/le-pantalon-n-est-plus-interdit-pour-les-parisiennes_879145

More seriously and from my personal experience for which for more than 12 years 
the data of all the projects of the WMF and in all the languages ​​as well as 
the content of the source links are hosted at Criann, the Criann and I even 
have never had any problem in court.

Regarding confidentiality, my servers are locked in a room which is also 
locked; only authorized persons can physically access the server rooms which 
are partitioned.

From my point of view, I think the risk is to be measured by the Criann, 
because we are talking about making Wikipedia resilient, if the Criann accepts 
the risk apart from controversies there will be only that.

Even so, I think it is for the wikipedia community to rule on this point, even 
if the mandate of the WMF is to host Wikipedia, it does not say that the 
community is not positioning itself for a less centralized system. than today.
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Community_Wishlist_Survey

And to change the law in France, I think that given that the Criann depends on 
the President of the Region:


Maybe le criann can try giving a call to french president of the region 
normandie and see whether
some arrangement can be made: -]


De : Antoine Musso
Envoyé le :jeudi 1 octobre 2020 18:17
À : Wikimedia Mailing List; Pascal Martin
Objet :Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moving the technical infrastructure out of the US

On 30/09/2020 13:55, Pascal Martin wrote: 


Hi all,
Maybe one way in France :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renater
I could contact them if it s possible, and more particularly the criann
he would only charge for electricity.
At the same time this allows to be able to save energy for users who
consult wikipedia in Europe.

https://www.criann.fr/


Hello,

Wikimedia has caches servers located in Amsterdam in the same facility 
of AMSIX which is one of the largest internet exchange point in Europe. 
The caches thus have a very good connectivity with all the major 
internet service provider in Europe (and beyond).


France several exchange points (France-IX, PARIX, SFINX which is 
operated by renater) and possibly others. But to my knowledge none offer 
the same amount of connectivity as AMSIX.


Beside privacy, hosting would have to obey to french laws and the 
copyright laws are entirely different than the one in the USA. On top of 
my mind: there is no such thing as "fair use" and no "freedom of panorama".


Surely laws can be changed by intense lobbying and could I see the use 
case for France to relax some copyrights laws to better accommodate 
hosting.  That could potentially attract a wide range of content that 
are seeking a safe copyright heaven.  But I don't see it happening 
anytime soon and that would require a lot of lobbying by a wide range of 
organizations beside just Wikimedia.



Maybe WMF CEO can try giving a call to french president and see whether 
some arrangement can be made :-]




--
Cordialement
Pascal Martin
06 13 89 77 32
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[Wikimedia-l] Wikimedian of the Year 2020 livestream event - 15 October

2020-10-01 Thread Chris Koerner
Greetings,

The Wikimedia Foundation would like to invite you to attend a
livestream event with Wikimedia Foundation CEO Katherine Maher and
Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales to announce the 2020 Wikimedian of the
Year.

Learn more about the event on Diff.

https://diff.wikimedia.org/2020/10/01/coming-soon-the-2020-wikimedian-of-the-year-live-event/


Yours,
Chris Koerner (he/him)
Community Relations Specialist
Wikimedia Foundation

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Updates from Wikimedia Foundation Board

2020-10-01 Thread Samuel Klein
Dear Nataliia  --

Any update on the first two points?

Does the BGC

recommend a Bylaws update or an election this calendar year?
Posting minutes  for the
last 3 meetings would be, as ever, welcome.

Warmly, Sam
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[Wikimedia-l] RE : Moving the technical infrastructure out of the US

2020-10-01 Thread Pascal Martin
Good evening Antoine,

France is a country full of laws which are not respected, it is the old 
continent that you want :)
Ex: it was not until 2013 that women could wear pants in Paris, and I assure 
you that women wore pants before that date.

https://www.liberation.fr/france/2013/02/04/le-pantalon-n-est-plus-interdit-pour-les-parisiennes_879145

More seriously and from my personal experience for which for more than 12 years 
the data of all the projects of the WMF and in all the languages ​​as well as 
the content of the source links are hosted at Criann, the Criann and I even 
have never had any problem in court.

Regarding confidentiality, my servers are locked in a room which is also 
locked; only authorized persons can physically access the server rooms which 
are partitioned.

From my point of view, I think the risk is to be measured by the Criann, 
because we are talking about making Wikipedia resilient, if the Criann accepts 
the risk apart from controversies there will be only that.

Even so, I think it is for the wikipedia community to rule on this point, even 
if the mandate of the WMF is to host Wikipedia, it does not say that the 
community is not positioning itself for a less centralized system. than today.
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Community_Wishlist_Survey

And to change the law in France, I think that given that the Criann depends on 
the President of the Region:


Maybe le criann can try giving a call to french president of the region 
normandie and see whether
some arrangement can be made: -]


De : Antoine Musso
Envoyé le :jeudi 1 octobre 2020 18:17
À : Wikimedia Mailing List; Pascal Martin
Objet :Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moving the technical infrastructure out of the US

On 30/09/2020 13:55, Pascal Martin wrote:
> Hi all,
> Maybe one way in France :
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renater
> I could contact them if it s possible, and more particularly the criann
> he would only charge for electricity.
> At the same time this allows to be able to save energy for users who
> consult wikipedia in Europe.
> 
> https://www.criann.fr/

Hello,

Wikimedia has caches servers located in Amsterdam in the same facility 
of AMSIX which is one of the largest internet exchange point in Europe. 
The caches thus have a very good connectivity with all the major 
internet service provider in Europe (and beyond).

France several exchange points (France-IX, PARIX, SFINX which is 
operated by renater) and possibly others. But to my knowledge none offer 
the same amount of connectivity as AMSIX.

Beside privacy, hosting would have to obey to french laws and the 
copyright laws are entirely different than the one in the USA. On top of 
my mind: there is no such thing as "fair use" and no "freedom of panorama".

Surely laws can be changed by intense lobbying and could I see the use 
case for France to relax some copyrights laws to better accommodate 
hosting.  That could potentially attract a wide range of content that 
are seeking a safe copyright heaven.  But I don't see it happening 
anytime soon and that would require a lot of lobbying by a wide range of 
organizations beside just Wikimedia.


Maybe WMF CEO can try giving a call to french president and see whether 
some arrangement can be made :-]



-- 
Antoine "hashar" Musso

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia CEE Online Meeting 2020

2020-10-01 Thread Shani Evenstein
 Thanks for the reminder, Kiril. Looks like a really great online program!

Good luck to all the speakers and looking forward to CEEing some of you
there. :)

Shani.

On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 11:06 PM Kiril Simeonovski <
kiril.simeonov...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> I would like to inform you that we are almost at the onset of the Wikimedia
> CEE Online Meeting 2020
> , which
> will take place from 2–4 October. We have prepared a conference programme
> with a variety of topics covered by speakers from all around the world (the
> schedule is available on the following link
> <
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_CEE_Online_Meeting_2020/Programme#Schedule
> >
> ).
>
> Considering that this is an online event, the registration will be open
> until *2 October at 12:00 (UTC)*. You can find more instructions regarding
> the registration on this page
> <
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_CEE_Online_Meeting_2020/Participants/List
> >
> .
>
> This is a one-time opportunity for non-CEE Wikimedians to attend the
> Wikimedia CEE Meeting. Don't miss it!
>
> Stay safe and healthy!
>
> Best regards,
> Kiril Simeonovski
> Chair of the Wikimedia CEE Online Meeting 2020 organising committee
> ___
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>
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[Wikimedia-l] Wikimedians for Sustainable Development - September Newsletter

2020-10-01 Thread Jan Ainali
This is our tenth newsletter, covering September 2020. This issue has news
related to SDGs 3, 5, 6, 10, 11, 13 and 15.

*Meetings*

   - Online meeting October 4 (SDG all) [1]
   - Online meeting October 18 (SDG all) [1]

*Activities*

   - Ongoing: The 'Climate Translation Project' (SDG 13) [17]
   - Ongoing: Survey on gender equality on Wikipedia (SDG 5) [12] [13]
   - Ongoing: The 'Gender equality 2020' editing week (SDG 5) [15]
   - Ongoing: Wiki Loves Fashion 2020 (SDG 5) [16]
   - Past: Climate Justice Editathon (SDG 10 & 13) [3]
   - Past: Wikimedia Foundation hosts Sustainability Community Roundtable
   Discussion about carbon credits (SDG 13) [8]
   - Past: Wiki loves SDGs - Global Goals Week online edit-a-thon on SDG
   topics (SDG all) [9] [10] [11]
   - Past: WikiGap Skopje 2020 online edit-a-thon (SDG 5) [14]
   - Past and ongoing: Wiki Loves Monuments (SDG 11) [22]

*News*

   - Humaniki: Wikimedia Diversity Data Tools (SDG 5) [2]
   - How can I get data on all the dams in the world? Use Wikidata (SDG 6)
   [4]

*Research*

   - Using logical constraints to validate information in collaborative
   knowledge graphs: a study of COVID-19 on Wikidata (SDG 3) [6]
   - Representing COVID-19 information in collaborative knowledge graphs: a
   study of Wikidata (SDG 3) [21]

*Videos*

   - Wikipedia Weekly Network - LIVE Wikidata editing #21 - WikiDojo on the
   Global Climate Strike (SDG 13) [18]

*Featured content*

   - Zebra (SDG 15) [23]
   - Tropical Storm Vicente (SDG 11) [24]

*New Wikidata properties*

   - National Park Service place ID (SDG 15) [19]
   - Symptom Ontology ID (SDG 3) [20]

*New Wikidata query examples*

   - Map of organisations/companies developing/manufacturing a vaccine in
   trials (SDG 3) [5]
   - Top World Heritage sites by number of paintings depicting them (SDG
   11) [7]

*Links*

   - [1]
   
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedians_for_Sustainable_Development/Next_meeting
   - [2]
   
https://diff.wikimedia.org/2020/09/15/humaniki-wikimedia-diversity-data-tools/
   - [3]
   
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Climate_change/Justice#September_18th_%E2%80%93_Climate_justice_Edit-a-thon
   - [4] https://addshore.com/2020/09/wikidata-dams/
   - [5]
   
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_COVID-19/Queries#Map_of_organisations/companies_developing/manufacturing_a_vaccine_in_trials
   - [6] https://zenodo.org/record/4008359
   - [7]
   
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_sum_of_all_paintings/Top_World_Heritage_sites_by_number_of_paintings_depicting_them
   - [8] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81pIvZZTpKU
   - [9]
   
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/Online_edit-a-thon_SDGs_September_2020#Promotion_of_female_editors
   - [10]
   
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Encuentros/Editat%C3%B3n_en_l%C3%ADnea_SDG_septiembre_2020
   - [11] https://mk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Википедија:Цели_за_одржлив_развој
   - [12]
   
https://mk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Википедија:Анкета_за_испитување_на_родовата_еднаквост_на_Википедија
   - [13]
   
http://wikimedia.rs/anketa-za-ispitivanje-rodne-ravnopravnosti-na-vikipediji/?fbclid=IwAR1Wppdq6tPNus40I9kq_QLZR489T9GBGoBDbDEXe324uZSz_t-qUB-NIdQ
   - [14] https://mk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Википедија:WikiGap_Skopje_2020
   - [15] https://mk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Википедија:Родов_јаз_2020
   - [16] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wiki_Loves_Fashion/2020
   - [17]
   
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedians_for_Sustainable_Development/Climate_translation_project
   - [18] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2sujkCwHE0
   - [19] https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P8649
   - [20] https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P8656
   - [21] https://zenodo.org/record/4033382
   - [22] https://wikilovesmonuments.org
   - [23] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zebra
   - [24] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropical_Storm_Vicente_(2018)

This message was sent on behalf of the Wikimedians for Sustainable
Development by Jan Ainali.
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[Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia CEE Online Meeting 2020

2020-10-01 Thread Kiril Simeonovski
Dear all,

I would like to inform you that we are almost at the onset of the Wikimedia
CEE Online Meeting 2020
, which
will take place from 2–4 October. We have prepared a conference programme
with a variety of topics covered by speakers from all around the world (the
schedule is available on the following link

).

Considering that this is an online event, the registration will be open
until *2 October at 12:00 (UTC)*. You can find more instructions regarding
the registration on this page

.

This is a one-time opportunity for non-CEE Wikimedians to attend the
Wikimedia CEE Meeting. Don't miss it!

Stay safe and healthy!

Best regards,
Kiril Simeonovski
Chair of the Wikimedia CEE Online Meeting 2020 organising committee
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Board of Trustees elections, membership, quorum, and

2020-10-01 Thread Bill Takatoshi
After I asked my questions on September 4, I was sent the message
below by some role account I've never heard of, asking about claims
that have used the names of five other people. I don't edit under my
real name, but I have never used the names in the linked forum
postings.

The linked posts also claim that the Foundation's nonprofit status is
at risk. I am not a lawyer, but I am skeptical of that claim even
though five Trustees whose three-year terms expired in August
apparently voted on a Resolution in a Board meeting on September 24.
According to Section 4 of the Bylaws, "A quorum shall consist of a
majority of Trustees then in office." Section 6 says, "the Board may
continue doing business as a Board during the vacancy of any Trustee
position." Therefore, since four of the five remaining Trustees all
voted in favor, the Resolution was properly carried, in my layperson's
view. I am less certain about the propriety of allowing a Trustee
whose three year term expired to continue to serve as Chair.

The lack of any update or even ETA for an update on
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2020#Postpone%3F
is baffling. Elections have never been held in person, only online,
and so the excuse that they were postponed because of the pandemic
crisis seems extremely suspicious. Indefinitely delaying elections for
such a vacuous reason makes the Foundation look like the worst of the
bad actors in today's international political climate. Doesn't the
cancelled travel of the pandemic crisis give the Foundation more time
to hold elections, not less? Whether non-profit status is at risk or
not, I would hope that the Foundation, Board, and Elections Committee
would be more interested in upholding the principles of good
governance than failing to even announce a new schedule or even a date
by which a new schedule will be announced.

-Will

On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 10:31 PM Gender Desk  wrote:
>
> Mr. Takatoshi,
>
> Wikipediocracy has suggested that you have also used the names "Rogol 
> Domedonfors, Renée Bagslint, Jennifer Pryor-Summers, Felicity Braingut, 
> Thomas Townsend and others." 
> http://wikipediocracy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14=11567
>
> Can you comment on that?
>
> Regards,
> Genderdesk
>
> genderdesk.wordpress.com


On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 7:38 PM Samuel Klein  wrote:
>
> Can anyone from the elections committee comment?  What is the current
> plan?//S

>
> On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 8:05 PM Bill Takatoshi 
> wrote:
>
> > How long can the Foundation legally postpone Board of Trustees elections?
> >
> >
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2020#Postpone%3F

> > has a comment from April saying, "Once things get moving again,
> > appopriate [sic] date for the election will be decided and an
> > announcement will be made."
> >
> >
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_of_Trustees#Current_members
> > suggests that five board members terms end on "Wikimania 2020" -- but
> > is that accurate?
> >
> >
> > https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Term_Limit_Proposal_for_Bylaws
> > is clear that "All Board terms are three years" and "the term of each
> > such appointment shall not exceed three years."
> >
> > Who are the current members of the Board of Trustees?
> >
> > Can the board achieve a quorum in its present state?
> >
> > Who is the Chair currently?
> >
>
> --
> Samuel Klein  @metasj   w:user:sj  +1 617 529 4266

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moving the technical infrastructure out of the US

2020-10-01 Thread Antoine Musso

On 30/09/2020 13:55, Pascal Martin wrote:

Hi all,
Maybe one way in France :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renater
I could contact them if it s possible, and more particularly the criann
he would only charge for electricity.
At the same time this allows to be able to save energy for users who
consult wikipedia in Europe.

https://www.criann.fr/


Hello,

Wikimedia has caches servers located in Amsterdam in the same facility 
of AMSIX which is one of the largest internet exchange point in Europe. 
The caches thus have a very good connectivity with all the major 
internet service provider in Europe (and beyond).


France several exchange points (France-IX, PARIX, SFINX which is 
operated by renater) and possibly others. But to my knowledge none offer 
the same amount of connectivity as AMSIX.


Beside privacy, hosting would have to obey to french laws and the 
copyright laws are entirely different than the one in the USA. On top of 
my mind: there is no such thing as "fair use" and no "freedom of panorama".


Surely laws can be changed by intense lobbying and could I see the use 
case for France to relax some copyrights laws to better accommodate 
hosting.  That could potentially attract a wide range of content that 
are seeking a safe copyright heaven.  But I don't see it happening 
anytime soon and that would require a lot of lobbying by a wide range of 
organizations beside just Wikimedia.



Maybe WMF CEO can try giving a call to french president and see whether 
some arrangement can be made :-]




--
Antoine "hashar" Musso

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[Wikimedia-l] 2021 Ombuds Commission nominations now open

2020-10-01 Thread Karen Brown
Hello all,

Please accept my apologies if you are receiving this a number of times
today. We have sent it out to multiple mailing lists in order to reach as
many community members as possible. Please feel free to forward this to any
other community mailing lists you believe are relevant.

It's coming close to time for annual appointments of community members to
serve on the Ombudsman commission (OC). This commission works on all
Wikimedia projects to investigate complaints about violations of the
privacy policy, especially in use of CheckUser and Oversight tools, and to
mediate between the complaining party and the individual whose work is
being investigated. They may also assist the General Counsel, the Executive
Director or the Board of Trustees in investigations of these issues. For
more on their duties and roles, see
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Ombuds_commission

This is a call for community members interested in volunteering for
appointment to this commission. Volunteers serving in this role should be
experienced Wikimedians, active on any project, who have previously used
the CheckUser tool OR who have the technical ability to understand the
CheckUser tool and the willingness to learn it. They are expected to be
able to engage neutrally in investigating these concerns and to know when
to recuse when other roles and relationships may cause conflict.

Commissioners are required to identify to the Wikimedia Foundation and must
be willing to comply with the appropriate Wikimedia Foundation board
policies (such as the access to non-public data policy[1] and the privacy
policy[2]). This is a position that requires a high degree of discretion
and trust.

If you are interested in serving on this commission, please write me an
email off-list (kbrown(at)wikimedia.org) to detail your experience on the
projects, your thoughts on the commission and what you hope to bring to the
role. The commission consists of ten members; all applications are
appreciated and will be carefully considered. The deadline for applications
is the end of day on 31 December, 2020.

Please feel free to pass this invitation along to any users who you think
may be qualified and  interested.

Thank you!

-Karen Brown

On behalf of the Wikimedia Foundation Trust & Safety team

1. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Access_to_nonpublic_information_policy
2. https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Privacy_policy

-- 
Karen Brown
Trust & Safety Specialist
Wikimedia Foundation
kbr...@wikimedia.org
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moving the technical infrastructure out of the US

2020-10-01 Thread WereSpielChequers
For many years my part of England used to rely on a radio station based in
Luxembourg. When it comes to potential host countries for Wikimedia there
is a lot to be said for choosing a country that is small enough to rather
like the idea of hosting the world's favourite reference site, even if that
means a few changes to copyright and publishing laws and some upset to
international relations. Somehow I don't see the US, or a country a
thirtieth that size, being overly bothered at ceasing to be the host nation
for an organisation the size of this movement

Norway, Iceland or pretty much any Scandinavian country has a case here,
though Norway and Finland both border Russia, which could be an issue.

Switzerland might work, though their banking industry would make them an
odd host for a site that amongst other things documents the doings of the
rich and powerful. However, like Luxembourg, San Marino, Andorra and
Liechtenstein, they do have that rare advantage of being immune to gunboat
diplomacy.

Ireland and New Zealand are also interesting possibilities, small enough
and independent minded enough that they might see the extra jobs and
international impact as more than worth any aggro.

A sensible way forward would be to write up the specification for such a
location, including the technology - you'd want to connect to a major spine
of the internet; But also the publishing, copyright and libel laws that we
need, and then have the WMF email the business development agencies of the
governments concerned inviting them to express an  interest.

The net result might involve us making a change, for example I would hope
we'd be willing to lose the Fair Use protection of US law in order to find
a more congenial home for the movement.

Regards

WSC


> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2020 11:58:22 -0400
> From: Samuel Klein 
> To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moving the technical infrastructure out of
> the US
> Message-ID:
> <
> caatu9wllusdklowsxpshmojyvzeqpaiilsweyok+0dzxkew...@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> We should have technical partners in multiple other jurisdictions that
> could help in a crisis, and load bearing infrastructure in at least one of
> them, and a plan for how and when to switch. (The walkthrough of what would
> be needed for a smooth transfer send most important, and useful for general
> reliability planning)
>
> We should also fully support and realize Wikimedia-on-ipfs, similar to what
> the internet archive had been doing. (Santhosh has some excellent ideas
> there)
>
> 
>
> On Wed., Sep. 30, 2020, 5:35 a.m. Dan Garry (Deskana), 
> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 30 Sep 2020 at 09:49, Erik Moeller  wrote:
> >
> > > I hope that some preliminary contingency plans exist or are being
> > > developed, and I'm sure that the movement-wide debate will widen if
> > > the US continues its downward slide into authoritarianism.
> > >
> >
> > I agree with Erik. Even under the Obama administration, there were
> threats
> > to the existence of the movement, such as SOPA [1] which lead to a
> blackout
> > [2]. One can extrapolate from current events that these threats could
> well
> > get larger and more frequent, rather than smaller and less frequent,
> should
> > someone in the US Government decide to focus their attention on attacking
> > Wikipedia and free knowledge. It would be prudent to create a contingency
> > plan which includes an exploration of other options for a location of
> > operation for the Wikimedia Foundation and/or its servers, with their
> > advantages and disadvantages. I personally wouldn't necessarily advocate
> > for making the plan public; that would be ideal, but I'd be comforted
> > merely to know it exists.
> >
> > On Tue, 29 Sep 2020 at 23:36, Joseph Seddon 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I believe options are going to be explored for sustainability but right
> > now
> > > legally speaking the US is the best jurisdiction for hosting us now and
> > the
> > > foreseeable future.
> > >
> >
> > I agree with this too. For now, the United States remains the best place
> > for the organisation to operate out of, and a move should not be actively
> > considered.
> >
> > Dan
> >
> > [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_Online_Piracy_Act
> > [2]:
> >
> >
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protests_against_SOPA_and_PIPA#Wikimedia_community
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moving the technical infrastructure out of the US

2020-10-01 Thread Peter Southwood
If things are as bad as that then there should be and might already be an 
offshore backup, possibly more than one, as it is a no-brainer, and I don’t 
think WMF tech management  and the board are stupid, and nor are those who 
would wish to prevent it from happening. But plausible deniability. Cheers, 
Peter

-Original Message-
From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of 
Christophe Henner
Sent: 30 September 2020 23:07
To: Wikimedia Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moving the technical infrastructure out of the US

Hi everyone,

Options to mitigate any risks are numerous, especially when it comes to
content distribution (private/semi-private/public/delegated/federated/a mix
of everything) but given the current context I would restrain from having
this as a public / community discussion.

We, community members, would most probably have great inputs but when one
is dealing with this kind of topic, designing contingencies plan, one has
to be ful of what information can be public. I have no idea whether staff
is working on such a topic, and it is better that way.

But we, as community members and awesome human beings, must be mindful of
some things:

   - The people in charge of that topic are mostly US Citizens. The current
   political and social climate is most probably draining their energy.
   Imagine having to manage it both from a personal and professional
   standpoint. Top that doing it for something as important as our projects.
   We cannot fathom their anxiety levels and should not add any to it.
   - Sending email about this topic, they have to read it. They most
   probably have to discuss, debate and balance whether they should answer or
   not. Imagine adding that to the first point.
   - They know for a fact, remember a lot of community members are staff,
   that community could be helping. But they can't ask for it.
   - Top all of that with them knowing that whatever course of action they
   might pick, it comes with a toll. Whether it is to talk about it here, and
   perhaps hinder their efforts, or not talk about it here and be perceived as
   ignoring the community.
   - Top all of that with the stress of trying to do their job in a global
   pandemic situation that might have them with loved ones at risk. Or with
   the need to care daily for young / elderly people.
   - Top that with the fact that they most probably all have relatives that
   at best are in financial struggle, or health struggles or are managing with
   the loss of loved ones.

Take a pause. Try to step in that space. Imagine how you would feel.
Multiply that by a hundred.

I would recommend we (community members) restrain from talking about it.
Perhaps what could be helpful, I am saying could, is for the people that do
actually have knowledge on those topics to just say they are available to
help if needs be with your area of expertise.

If no one at the Foundation acknowledges this thread or your emails, it is
ok. It doesn't mean you are not valued, it means that you are being spared
from that weight. We can provide support, but we should be mindful not to
increase their current level of stress.

Please all take care of yourselves, loved ones and each other

PS: I said staff, but read it as "anyone with an official Wikimedia
Foundation capacity". I know for a fact how those situations can be hard to
manage when you are a volunteer board member in the shadow too.


--
Christophe


On Wed, 30 Sep 2020 at 21:32, Steven Walling 
wrote:

> On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 12:22 PM Nathan  wrote:
>
> > Well, to Steven's point that you might need a jurisdiction where
> corporate
> > officers and employees aren't subject to extradition... I believe Germany
> > does in fact have an extradition treaty with the United States.
> >
>
> The chapters do seem like the obvious potentially viable easy
> solution here, if WMF set up that contingency plan.
>
> For instance, if WMDE did take over in an emergency, then the critical
> difference is that Germany doesn't extradite its own citizens to the US. So
> there'd just have to be a complete handoff of primary hosting to outside
> the US and some kind of agreement for WMDE (or pick your chapter) to take
> over operational control. There's probably a lot that real lawyers, of
> which I am not one, would know better here.
>
>
> > So far the criteria I'm hearing from the comments here:
> >
> > 1) Politically stable
> > 2) Liberal political environment
> > 3) Strong protections against government interference in relevant
> > operations
> > 4) Section 230-like protection against liability for user content
> > 5) No natural disasters like fires, floods, hurricanes, volcanoes, etc.
> > 6) Strong technological sophistication - preferably a robust technology
> > industry that can supply local talent for WMF needs
> > 7) Protections in the law for data privacy
> > 8) Availability of renewable energy sources and other resources that
> allow
> > for