Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on IPv6

2012-06-02 Thread MZMcBride
John Du Hart wrote:
 On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 7:08 PM, Risker risker...@gmail.com wrote:
 Erik, what time is this scheduled to go live?  And on which projects?
 Please be specific here.
 
 I am gravely concerned about the privacy issues that are attached to IPv6
 IP addresses, as they are in many cases almost personally identifying
 information, something that is not permitted to be released under our
 privacy policy.  Have arrangements been made to hash these IP addresses to
 prevent them from being publicly available?
 
 What personal information do you think is contained in an IPv6 address?

I wondered what Risker was referring to as well, so I looked up IPv6 +
privacy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPv6#Privacy.

After reading that section, it's still unclear to me whether IPv6 is
significantly more privacy invasive than IPv4.

MZMcBride



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on IPv6

2012-06-02 Thread Tim Starling
On 02/06/12 05:04, Hersfold wrote:
 I'm very concerned that this is what's going to happen with the IPv6
 change - something major is going to fail, and the wiki will become
 inaccessible, or some major security feature (blocking or protection,
 for example) will be rendered inoperable, leaving the wikis vulnerable
 to attack from all fronts. The latter situation seems to be more
 likely based on past issues, and unfortunately more problematic; once
 these issues get noted, it'll take only minutes for /b/, GNAA, and a
 long list of other vandals to figure it out and launch a full-scale
 attack that'll take weeks to clean up.

We could just allow blocking of arbitrarily large IPv6 ranges. Then if
there is some emergency, you can just block everyone who is using IPv6
from editing. The collateral damage would be smaller than the IPv4 /16
blocks which admins apply routinely.

-- Tim Starling


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on IPv6

2012-06-02 Thread Erik Moeller
Hi Risker et al,

a few important points:
* IPv6 adoption is still below 1% globally [1].
* It's likely that we'll encounter network-level issues well before we
hit application-level issues during limited production testing.
* In the event that we manage to resolve all issues, it's likely that
we'll only see very limited use/abuse of IPv6 addresses and that we'll
have plenty of time to adjust procedures and documentation.
* We can abort this fairly easily, or as Tim suggests, employ global
blocks of IPv6 addresses to manage abuse.

As noted, the plan is to engage in limited production testing this
weekend, with possible full deployment by IPv6 Day (Wednesday). I
should also note that the degree to which all the complex network and
software interactions of a deployment like this can be tested without
actually changing or affecting production operations is limited. We're
going to be debugging issues in real-time.

I appreciate that this is very short notice for lots of people and
apologize for that; thanks to Tilman for helping with the global
notice dissemination. There's pretty good likelihood that aside from
maybe some brief service interruptions, the user impact is going to be
close to nil, either due to an abort early on, or due to very limited
IPv6 usage.

Moving towards full IPv6 support is part of our responsibility as a
good Internet citizen, and this has been in the works for a long time.
It's never been an option not to do this as IPv4 addresses are being
exhausted.

Regarding privacy, both IPv4 and IPv6 addresses can be dangerously
revealing in terms of personal identity (e.g. some ISPs even tie
street address information to your IPv4 address). It's always been
fundamentally problematic that MediaWiki reveals this information
nakedly, and it's what enabled past large-scale investigations like
WikiScanner, for good and for ill. In the mid to long term, I believe
we need to investigate moving away from full disclosure of IP
addresses when editing without logging in, but this is independent of
IPv4/IPv6.

All best,
Erik

[1] https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics/

-- 
Erik Möller
VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation

Support Free Knowledge: https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate

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[Wikimedia-l] Myth Busted Re: TomTom does a Britannica

2012-06-02 Thread Kim Bruning


On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 08:08:21AM -0400, Anthony wrote:
 The difference is that Wikipedia is usable in the real world, whereas
 OSM, for the most part, is not.

OSMAndroid is fully usable for satnav in the real world.
It includes enough data on streets, buildings and POI's to
find what you need. You can download maps so you don't
need a network connection for maps; and recent upgrades
also allow one to do routing on the local CPU, so you
can use your android phone just like a tomtom, except
with OSM map data ;-)

When eg. playing tourist in Italy, this worked perfectly for me.

I'm going to say that this myth is busted ;-) 

sincerely,
Kim Bruning

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on IPv6

2012-06-02 Thread Anthony
On Sat, Jun 2, 2012 at 8:49 AM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 2 June 2012 13:44, Anthony wikim...@inbox.org wrote:
 On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 7:27 PM, John Du Hart compwhi...@gmail.com wrote:
 What personal information do you think is contained in an IPv6 address?

 Don't they sometimes contain MAC address information?

 I don't know, but I wouldn't consider my MAC address to be personal
 information... you might be able to work out what brand of computer
 I'm using, but I can live with that.

I'm not sure what you're defining personal information as, then.

Is your vehicle's VIN personal information?

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on IPv6

2012-06-02 Thread Leslie Carr
On Sat, Jun 2, 2012 at 6:13 AM, Anthony wikim...@inbox.org wrote:
 On Sat, Jun 2, 2012 at 8:49 AM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 2 June 2012 13:44, Anthony wikim...@inbox.org wrote:
 On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 7:27 PM, John Du Hart compwhi...@gmail.com wrote:
 What personal information do you think is contained in an IPv6 address?

 Don't they sometimes contain MAC address information?

 I don't know, but I wouldn't consider my MAC address to be personal
 information... you might be able to work out what brand of computer
 I'm using, but I can live with that.

I think that having a problem with the implementation of IPv6 is about
10 years too late now ;) The IPv4 space is being exhausted, and we're
going to soon run into the opposite problem that IPv4 addresses will
be not identifiable enough as ISP's use NAT.

If someone cares about their mac address information, they can use
privacy extensions - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipv6#Privacy .
Considering that in the vast, vast majority of the consumer (versus
production) world, you have to purposefully enable IPv6 (usually with
some sort of tunneling), and that these are turned on in most
operating systems by default, mac addressing is starting to only
become applicable in production environments.

Leslie

-- 
Leslie Carr
Wikimedia Foundation
AS 14907, 43821
http://as14907.peeringdb.com/

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[Wikimedia-l] Larry Sanger rides again

2012-06-02 Thread Milos Rancic
Fortunately, average Slashdotter is not a moron [1], like he is.

Does anyone know does he have some new project which needs promotion
in media? And may WMF give some money to him, not to mess around?

[1] 
http://news.slashdot.org/story/12/06/01/2119248/what-should-we-do-about-wikipedias-porn-problem

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on IPv6

2012-06-02 Thread Birgitte_sb




On Jun 2, 2012, at 5:06 AM, Erik Moeller e...@wikimedia.org wrote:

 
 
 
 Moving towards full IPv6 support is part of our responsibility as a
 good Internet citizen, and this has been in the works for a long time.
 It's never been an option not to do this as IPv4 addresses are being
 exhausted.
 
 

This is the relavent point.  For what it is worth I, who am less inclined to 
follow technical discussions than other kinds, remember that there was enough 
talk about approaching IPv6 day last year to feel it was settled that WMF was 
unprepared to participate at that time would make it happen in 2012.  It was 
either here or on wikitech-l.

I am not sure how someone who has strong opinions on the subject would be left 
unable to follow this when I followed with no such interest.  Moe importantly, 
I don't understand what exactly the objectors see as a better option.  No one 
will fix the scripts until they are broken, it is just the nature of the beast. 
 It seems the whole point of IPv6 day is that no one is very confident about 
level of breakage of things with IPv6 and no one will be able to gain this 
confidence until a significant number of sites turn it on and there is not 
another choice on the matter. Objecting to turning on IPv6 because things will 
break does not seem to be very informed. This is the point. If anyone doesn't 
trust that WMF will only make a day of it if the breakage is unmanageable, then 
they've bigger issues than IPv6.  And even still, the sun will rise and we will 
have a few less IPv4 addresses everyday; there are much better battles to pick.

Birgitte SB
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on IPv6

2012-06-02 Thread Kat Walsh
On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 5:12 PM, Erik Moeller e...@wikimedia.org wrote:
 Hi all,

 June 6, 2012 is IPv6 Day ( http://www.worldipv6day.org/ ). The goal of
 this global event is to move more ISPs, equipment manufacturers and
 web services to permanent adoption of IPv6.

 We're planning to do limited production testing of IPv6 during the
 Berlin Hackathon 2012 (June 2-3). Provided that the number of issues
 we encounter are manageable, we may fully enable IPv6 on IPv6 day, and
 keep it enabled.

Thanks Erik and all who are working on this! It's important work and
I'm glad to see us joining the community of sites and organizations
who are prepared for this necessity.

(Acknowledging the potential issues others have mentioned, I'm also
glad to see it while there are still few users who will be using IPv6,
so the problems that arise will be much smaller than they would be in
the future.)

Cheers,
Kat

-- 
Your donations keep Wikipedia free: https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate
Web: http://www.mindspillage.org Email: k...@wikimedia.org, 
k...@mindspillage.org
(G)AIM, Freenode, gchat, identi.ca, twitter, various social sites: mindspillage

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] TomTom does a Britannica

2012-06-02 Thread Kim Bruning
On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 09:29:19AM -0400, Anthony wrote:
 I just tried osmand.  I can't even figure out how to put in an
 address.  

WFM (Works For Me)? Also routing is not mapping. It looks like the
android coders could still improve their routing algorithms a bit. As
long as you take that into account, it's quite usable. (I always Use
Brain(tm) in combination satnav anyway, so I've hardly noticed, myself)

Note that OSMAndroid supports multiple online routing providers as well as
its own local-CPU algorithm. YMMV (literally! ;)

sincerely,
Kim Bruning

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Larry Sanger rides again

2012-06-02 Thread Seth Finkelstein
Whatever one thinks of Larry Sanger's campaign regarding
sexual material on Wikipedia or Commons, and I'm not endorsing
everything he says, it should be clear from examination that he holds
his views sincerely. Personally attacking him along the lines of being
malicious and insincere, which is quite false, only adds weight to his
critique about (my phrasing) the bunker-mentality culture.

-- 
Seth Finkelstein  Consulting Programmer  http://sethf.com
Infothought blog - http://sethf.com/infothought/blog/
Interview: http://sethf.com/essays/major/greplaw-interview.php

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Larry Sanger rides again

2012-06-02 Thread Thomas Dalton
On 2 June 2012 23:33, Seth Finkelstein se...@sethf.com wrote:
        Whatever one thinks of Larry Sanger's campaign regarding
 sexual material on Wikipedia or Commons, and I'm not endorsing
 everything he says, it should be clear from examination that he holds
 his views sincerely. Personally attacking him along the lines of being
 malicious and insincere, which is quite false, only adds weight to his
 critique about (my phrasing) the bunker-mentality culture.

I don't doubt that he is entirely sincere in holding that opinion, but
there is a difference between holding a opinion and expressing that
opinion. I think he's expressing the opinion because he is bitter and
it's a convenient criticism for him to make. I don't think he holds
the opinion strongly enough that he would be blogging about it if he
weren't looking for something about Wikipedia to criticise.

I'm really not interested in discussing Larry Sanger, though, so this
will be my last email on the subject.

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Larry Sanger rides again

2012-06-02 Thread geni
On 2 June 2012 23:33, Seth Finkelstein se...@sethf.com wrote:
        Whatever one thinks of Larry Sanger's campaign regarding
 sexual material on Wikipedia or Commons, and I'm not endorsing
 everything he says, it should be clear from examination that he holds
 his views sincerely. Personally attacking him along the lines of being
 malicious and insincere, which is quite false, only adds weight to his
 critique about (my phrasing) the bunker-mentality culture.

I think that's something of a miss-statement of his position. In fact
he explicitly states that he thinks the problem is due to the attitude
of  adolescent-minded-young-men. His proposed solution of the 21
century equiv of letter writing again suggests that he doesn't view a
bunker mentality as the problem.


-- 
geni

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