Re: [Wikimedia-l] TomTom does a Britannica

2012-06-07 Thread Marcin Cieslak
 Yaroslav M. Blanter pute...@mccme.ru wrote:
 On Tue, 29 May 2012 13:23:25 +0100, Tom Morris wrote:
 On 29 May 2012 13:08, Anthony wikim...@inbox.org wrote:
 The difference is that Wikipedia is usable in the real world, 
 whereas
 OSM, for the most part, is not.

 Yes, TomTom is dying.  But it's because of Google, not because of 
 OSM.


 I'd say OSM is beginning to be pretty usable in the real world. It's
 usable for a lot of things where there's not so much commercial
 interest in the map data...


  From my personal experience: Twice per year I travel into middle-size 
 towns of Russia, usually visiting several of then on a single trip. 
 Google maps suck badly; Google's Russian counterpart, Yandex Maps, are 
 better, but they suck as well; TomTom is nonexistent, and OSM had for 
 all places I visited in 2010 (with one exception - for the record, this 
 was the city of Tayga, Kemerovo Region in Siberia) reasonably good maps, 
 often with reliable house numbering.

I can confirm this too - even in a large city of Kiev my coworkers
tried to explain to each other how to reach something using
very inaccurate Google Map. We tried openstreetmap.org (they
didn't now it even exists) and we all were amazed by the level
of detail the city was described. Even all traffic lights and
bus stops were in place as they should.

//Saper


___
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l


Re: [Wikimedia-l] TomTom does a Britannica

2012-06-07 Thread Richard Symonds
Oddly, I checked a family home in Missouri the other day.

On Google maps, it's set about 1 mile from where it should be... and on the
wrong side of the Missouri river. It shows roads where there are none, and
is thoroughly unusable. UPS etc don't deliver to the house because it's not
on their navigation systems...

https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=ensafe=offq=google+maps+336+rose+lee+lane,+MOie=UTF-8hq=hnear=0x87d9437774ae90b1:0xe097361aeae6e007,336+Rose+Lee+Ln,+Union,+MO+63084,+USAgl=ukei=C4rQT_bNH8TZ8APbgeHRDAoi=geocode_resultved=0CBUQ8gEwAA


Of course, OSM is more accurate than any others - compare the link above,
with this link, showing a more accurate - but incomplete - map:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=38.396220356226lon=-91.0328784584999zoom=18


Richard Symonds
Wikimedia UK
0207 065 0992
Disclaimer viewable at
http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia:Email_disclaimer
Visit http://www.wikimedia.org.uk/ and @wikimediauk



On 7 June 2012 11:57, Marcin Cieslak sa...@saper.info wrote:

  Yaroslav M. Blanter pute...@mccme.ru wrote:
  On Tue, 29 May 2012 13:23:25 +0100, Tom Morris wrote:
  On 29 May 2012 13:08, Anthony wikim...@inbox.org wrote:
  The difference is that Wikipedia is usable in the real world,
  whereas
  OSM, for the most part, is not.
 
  Yes, TomTom is dying.  But it's because of Google, not because of
  OSM.
 
 
  I'd say OSM is beginning to be pretty usable in the real world. It's
  usable for a lot of things where there's not so much commercial
  interest in the map data...
 
 
   From my personal experience: Twice per year I travel into middle-size
  towns of Russia, usually visiting several of then on a single trip.
  Google maps suck badly; Google's Russian counterpart, Yandex Maps, are
  better, but they suck as well; TomTom is nonexistent, and OSM had for
  all places I visited in 2010 (with one exception - for the record, this
  was the city of Tayga, Kemerovo Region in Siberia) reasonably good maps,
  often with reliable house numbering.

 I can confirm this too - even in a large city of Kiev my coworkers
 tried to explain to each other how to reach something using
 very inaccurate Google Map. We tried openstreetmap.org (they
 didn't now it even exists) and we all were amazed by the level
 of detail the city was described. Even all traffic lights and
 bus stops were in place as they should.

 //Saper


 ___
 Wikimedia-l mailing list
 Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

___
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l


Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikitech-l] Update on IPv6

2012-06-07 Thread David Richfield
I'm glad to see that Navigation Popups works nicely with IPv6.

-- 
David Richfield
[[:en:User:Slashme]]
+27718539985

___
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l


Re: [Wikimedia-l] TomTom does a Britannica

2012-06-07 Thread Dan Rosenthal
OSM is great. Here in Addis Ababa, street names are not used except in a
handful of major thoroughfares; people navigate by landmark. OSM has far
more navigable map of the city than googlemaps does.  In some areas it
labels the street name in the local fashion (e.g. Road to Gerji Giorgis).
Yet it fails in other aspects -- the U.S. embassy is the most recognizable
landmark on Intoto street, and is not listed; neither are the French,
German, or British embassies. The EU Commission is not listed on Cape Verde
st. even though that street is commonly known as EU Road. Yet, the
Brazilian Ambassador's residence, not a particularly well known landmark,
is known.


Dan Rosenthal


On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 3:32 PM, Cristian Consonni
kikkocrist...@gmail.comwrote:

 2012/6/7 Richard Symonds richard.symo...@wikimedia.org.uk:
  the house because it's not
  on their navigation systems...

 May I thank evebody participating in this discussion for the
 throughout update on navigation system?
 I am finding it very interesting, above all the comparising among
 different countries. =)

 Cristian

 ___
 Wikimedia-l mailing list
 Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

___
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l


Re: [Wikimedia-l] TomTom does a Britannica

2012-06-07 Thread David Gerard
On 7 June 2012 15:30, Dan Rosenthal swatjes...@gmail.com wrote:

  Yet it fails in other aspects -- the U.S. embassy is the most recognizable
 landmark on Intoto street, and is not listed; neither are the French,
 German, or British embassies. The EU Commission is not listed on Cape Verde
 st. even though that street is commonly known as EU Road. Yet, the
 Brazilian Ambassador's residence, not a particularly well known landmark,
 is known.


{{sofixit}}

;-)


- d.

___
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l


Re: [Wikimedia-l] TomTom does a Britannica

2012-06-07 Thread Tom Morris
The more you play with OpenStreetMap, the more magical ways you start
discovering that you can use the data. Two that I've recently found...

1. Water fountains. Here in London, we used to have lots of water
fountains. Then modern capitalism found a much better way of
delivering water to people: put it in plastic bottles, drive it half
way around the country (or world) and sell it to people and a massive
profit, who then drink it and throw the plastic bottle away.  There
are a few water fountains in London though, and they are listed on
OpenStreetMap. Any movement to campaign for change requires actual
data to start with.

2. Stopped clocks. There are hundreds of beautiful, historical clocks
on public buildings across the country. It's possible to mark clocks
on OSM, and I've just been discussing on the wiki how we can mark
disused clocks. Having the data lets us campaign to have these clocks
restarted.

I'm also finding that in the process of doing OpenStreetMapping, I
take a lot of photos which are also usable on Commons. Quite a lot of
them aren't (for copyright reasons or scope reasons or just because
they are pretty crappy photographs), but a lot of the time you can
find uses for them on Commons. (Just need to go through and write
descriptions, categorise and upload.)

I heartily recommend any Wikimedians grab themselves the relevant
tools for OSMing (which don't necessarily mean a standalone GPS
device: things like iPhones and Android smartphones can be used, and
you can even go low-tech and print out walking maps), go out and do
it. If there's an OSM community in your area, go hang out with them.

The systemic bias issues that Wikipedia face also exist on OSM: here
in London, the city is richly documented and the OSMers are mostly
just tweaking, fixing and maintaining (most of my edits in London are
just metadata improvement rather than actually adding any new shape
information). But if you go and look at many non-Western countries,
you'll find whole towns which just aren't covered at all.

-- 
Tom Morris
http://tommorris.org/

___
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l