Re: [Wikimedia-l] Visual Editor temporary opt-out

2013-08-06 Thread MZMcBride
Kevin Wayne Williams wrote: Op 2013/08/05 19:35, MZMcBride schreef: Finally, and somewhat related to the complaints page, I've been thinking lately about the British and the Irish and the nature of insurgencies. I believe the VisualEditor team is now viewed by many on the English Wikipedia

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Visual Editor temporary opt-out

2013-08-06 Thread David Gerard
On 6 August 2013 07:44, MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com wrote: That said, this doubt is tempered by the _enormous_ selection bias we see in the on-wiki discussion. Namely that (a) the discussion has only been advertised to logged-in users, and (b) that nearly everyone participating in the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Visual Editor temporary opt-out

2013-08-06 Thread MZMcBride
David Gerard wrote: That is, the arguments tend towards saying you can't philosophically prove there aren't supporters! This is unconvincing for a number of reasons. This is lazy, but I'm going to quote myself. --- VisualEditor is a big project that didn't simply happen in a vacuum. The

[Wikimedia-l] Visual Editor temporary opt-out

2013-08-06 Thread Andrew Gray
I very rarely want to follow up a post to say yes, this, but I think Max has hit the nail on the head here. One other issue around 'heavy-handed' is that this is in part perception. I didn't feel the deployment heavy-handed, but then it did not cause me more than minor technical annoyance, I had

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Communication plans for community engagement

2013-08-06 Thread Romaine Wiki
Hello Nathan, I have no anti-Americanism, I only notice some differences in the culture how communities from different continents work and to me that is natural. The only thing I say is that an organisation for a worldwide movement should reflect more that diversity. Not only in people, but

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WCA Quest for the Cool Name

2013-08-06 Thread Pharos
A reminder that there's still some time to for cross-fertilization of cool name ideas, for the artist formerly known as the WCA: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Chapters_Association/Quest_for_the_Cool_Name Thanks, Richard (User:Pharos) On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 6:53 PM, Markus Glaser

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Visual Editor temporary opt-out

2013-08-06 Thread Richard Farmbrough
Apparently important. I am aware, as probably everyone is, that this is the first most obvious step to make article editing more accessible, and address certain inclusiveness goals. I am also aware that there is no data to support the theory that a visual editor means more inclusive editing,

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Visual Editor temporary opt-out

2013-08-06 Thread Todd Allen
On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 8:35 PM, MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com wrote: Todd Allen wrote: [comments about VisualEditor] Hi Todd. Thank you for writing this e-mail. Unfortunately I don't have a particularly unified reply to write here, but I can offer five thoughts. Regarding the specific

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Visual Editor temporary opt-out

2013-08-06 Thread Martijn Hoekstra
On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 3:10 PM, Richard Farmbrough rich...@farmbrough.co.uk wrote: Apparently important. I am aware, as probably everyone is, that this is the first most obvious step to make article editing more accessible, and address certain inclusiveness goals. I am also aware that there

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Visual Editor temporary opt-out

2013-08-06 Thread Kevin Wayne Williams
Op 2013/08/05 23:44, MZMcBride schreef: This leaves us to consider the biggest question: opt-in vs. opt-out. Erik and James are both quite smart, they are true Wikimedians, and they make reasonable points about choosing opt-out over opt-in. This is the point on which we fundamentally disagree.

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Visual Editor temporary opt-out

2013-08-06 Thread Martijn Hoekstra
On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 4:51 PM, Kevin Wayne Williams kwwilli...@kwwilliams.com wrote: Op 2013/08/05 23:44, MZMcBride schreef: This leaves us to consider the biggest question: opt-in vs. opt-out. Erik and James are both quite smart, they are true Wikimedians, and they make reasonable points

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Visual Editor temporary opt-out

2013-08-06 Thread Kevin Wayne Williams
Op 2013/08/06 7:55, Martijn Hoekstra schreef: On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 4:51 PM, Kevin Wayne Williams kwwilli...@kwwilliams.com wrote: Their argument for 'opt-out' is based solely upon the quality and quantity of testing that it affords to VE. VE is not a mission-critical feature: while we

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Visual Editor temporary opt-out

2013-08-06 Thread Martijn Hoekstra
On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 5:06 PM, Kevin Wayne Williams kwwilli...@kwwilliams.com wrote: Op 2013/08/06 7:55, Martijn Hoekstra schreef: On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 4:51 PM, Kevin Wayne Williams kwwilli...@kwwilliams.com wrote: Their argument for 'opt-out' is based solely upon the quality and

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Visual Editor temporary opt-out

2013-08-06 Thread Peter Southwood
Do you have data to back up your claims? Peter - Original Message - From: Kevin Wayne Williams kwwilli...@kwwilliams.com To: Wikimedia Mailing List wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 4:51 PM Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Visual Editor temporary opt-out Op

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Visual Editor temporary opt-out

2013-08-06 Thread Kevin Wayne Williams
Op 2013/08/06 9:07, Peter Southwood schreef: Do you have data to back up your claims? Peter What do you need? Evidence that Wikipedia has survived for years? Evidence that its decline is not so rapid as to indicate an emergency situation? Quotes from Erik where he states that he disrupted

Re: [Wikimedia-l] An idea that may improve Wikipedia's fundraising

2013-08-06 Thread Tobias
On 08/06/2013 06:01 PM, Ziyuan Yao wrote: Dear All, Besides asking for direct donations, there is another way that can potentially help Wikipedia's fundraising: There was also the idea of having beside the free App an (nearly identical) App-with-donation that is not free but costs a few

Re: [Wikimedia-l] An idea that may improve Wikipedia's fundraising

2013-08-06 Thread Ziyuan Yao
The key point in my original idea is that you make buyers believe that they're not just giving money away, but also getting some solid value in return. A Wikipedia DVD is a kind of solid value. On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 12:28 AM, Tobias church.of.emacs...@googlemail.comwrote: On 08/06/2013 06:01

Re: [Wikimedia-l] An idea that may improve Wikipedia's fundraising

2013-08-06 Thread Kevin Wayne Williams
Op 2013/08/06 9:40, Ziyuan Yao schreef: The key point in my original idea is that you make buyers believe that they're not just giving money away, but also getting some solid value in return. A Wikipedia DVD is a kind of solid value. More like a complete set of Wikipedia Blu-Rays. I forget the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] An idea that may improve Wikipedia's fundraising

2013-08-06 Thread Federico Leva (Nemo)
We did it in the past, https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/DVD Kevin Wayne Williams, 06/08/2013 18:52: Op 2013/08/06 9:40, Ziyuan Yao schreef: The key point in my original idea is that you make buyers believe that they're not just giving money away, but also getting some solid value in return. A

Re: [Wikimedia-l] An idea that may improve Wikipedia's fundraising

2013-08-06 Thread Matthew Walker
Ziyuan, Thanks for the idea! :) Technology limitations aside, there are two things we throw around in the team a lot; that we should not give the impression that a user *must* pay to use a WMF property, and that we will never ever do gift premiums. From my perspective buying a DVD set sounds

Re: [Wikimedia-l] An idea that may improve Wikipedia's fundraising

2013-08-06 Thread Richard Farmbrough
enwiki-20130708-pages-articles.xml.bz2 http://dumps.wikimedia.org/enwiki/20130708/enwiki-20130708-pages-articles.xml.bz2 9.3 GB - a double sided single layer DVD (9.4gb). The images would be more challenging. On 06/08/2013 17:52, Kevin Wayne Williams wrote: More like a complete set of

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Communication plans for community engagement

2013-08-06 Thread Nathan
You argued that a North American bias, or differences between American culture and that of Europe and elsewhere, might be part of the problem in why the VE is getting a backlash on projects for European languages. I'll take on faith that anti-Americanism doesn't explain why you jump to this

Re: [Wikimedia-l] An idea that may improve Wikipedia's fundraising

2013-08-06 Thread David Gerard
On 6 August 2013 18:46, Matthew Walker mwal...@wikimedia.org wrote: In addition what use would giving a donor a DVD set serve? They clearly already have access to the site -- with the caveat that some countries have restricted use restrictions from the local government. If instead we are

Re: [Wikimedia-l] An idea that may improve Wikipedia's fundraising

2013-08-06 Thread MZMcBride
Matthew Walker wrote: Technology limitations aside, there are two things we throw around in the team a lot; that we should not give the impression that a user *must* pay to use a WMF property, and that we will never ever do gift premiums. Hi Matt. This sounds a bit like Fundraising principles or

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Visual Editor temporary opt-out

2013-08-06 Thread Kevin Wayne Williams
I've made no claim about most long-term editors, but any perusal of the two RFCs and the Feedback page would demonstrate that there's a fairly large group. Or are you arguing that deploying bug-ridden software that corrupts articles, hangs browsers, crashes unexpectedly, and doesn't have

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Visual Editor temporary opt-out

2013-08-06 Thread Peter Southwood
To me it looks like a fairly small number of editors are making a fairly large amount of noise, A very small number making a disproportionately large amount, and a much larger number, probably the majority, have not even bothered to comment at all. I also have not analysed the numbers, but to

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Visual Editor temporary opt-out

2013-08-06 Thread Kevin Wayne Williams
Op 2013/08/06 13:05, Peter Southwood schreef: This is Wikipedia, there are always a small number who make a lot of noise. I think that's part of the problem: any change hits a nerve *somewhere*, so even when it's a real problem, observers are likely to dismiss it as being just more of the

[Wikimedia-l] A proposal towards a multilingual Wikipedia

2013-08-06 Thread Denny Vrandečić
I have been thinking about this for a while, and now finally managed to write it down as a proposal. Details are on meta on the following link, below is the intro to the proposal: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/A_proposal_towards_a_multilingual_Wikipedia I tried to anticipate some possible