Re: [Wikimedia-l] OTRS upgraded

2013-08-10 Thread Federico Leva (Nemo)

Rjd0060, 10/08/2013 01:57:

On behalf of the OTRS administrators and the entire volunteer response
team, I'd like to thank all who were involved in this process.
Specifically Jeff Green and other Wikimedia operations staff, Maggie
Dennis and the LCA team, Martin (the inventor of OTRS) and Marcel (an
OTRS developer) for all of the time and assistance that they provided
during this much-needed upgrade.


Indeed, thank you so much Jeff Green and Martin Edenhofer.

Nemo

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikidata-l] Meeting about the support of Wiktionary in Wikidata

2013-08-10 Thread Denny Vrandečić
[Sorry for cross-posting]

Yes, I agree that the OmegaWiki community should be involved in the
discussions, and I pointed GerardM to our proposals whenever and
discussions, using him as a liaison. We also looked and keep looking at the
OmegaWiki data model to see what we are missing.

Our latest proposal is different from OmegaWiki in two major points:

* our primary goal is to provide support for structured data in the
Wiktionaries. We do not plan to be the main resource ourselves, where
readers come to in order to look up something, we merely provide structured
data that a Wiktionary may or may not use. This parallels the role of
Wikidata has with regards to Wikipedia. This also highlights the difference
between Wikidata and OmegaWiki, since OmegaWiki's goal is to create a
dictionary of all words of all languages, including lexical, terminological
and ontological information.

* a smaller difference is the data model. Wikidata's latest proposal to
support Wiktionary is centered around lexemes, and we do not assume that
there is such a things as a language-independent defined meaning. But no
matter what model we end up with, it is important to ensure that the bulk
of the data could freely flow between the projects, and even though we
might disagree on this issue in the modeling, it is ensured that the
exchange of data is widely possible.

We tried to keep notes on the discussion we had today: 
http://epl.wikimedia.org/p/WiktionaryAndWikidata

My major take home message for me is that:
* the proposal needs more visual elements, especially a mock-up or sketch
of how it would look like and how it could be used on the Wiktionaries
* there is no generally accepted place for a discussion that involves all
Wiktionary projects. Still, my initial decision to have the discussion on
the Wikidata wiki was not a good one, and it should and will be moved to
Meta.

Having said that, the current proposal for the data model of how to support
Wiktionary with Wikidata seems to have garnered a lot of support so far. So
this is what I will continue building upon. Further comments are extremely
welcomed. You can find it here:

http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Wiktionary

As said, it will be moved to Meta, as soon as the requested mockups and
extensions are done.

Cheers,
Denny





2013/8/10 Samuel Klein meta...@gmail.com

 Hello,

  On Fri, Aug 9, 2013 at 6:13 PM, JP Béland lebo.bel...@gmail.com wrote:
  I agree. We also need to include the Omegawiki community.

 Agreed.

 On Fri, Aug 9, 2013 at 12:22 PM, Laura Hale la...@fanhistory.com wrote:
  Why? The question of moving them into the WMF fold was pretty much no,
  because the project has an overlapping purpose with Wiktionary,

 This is not actually the case.
 There was overwhelming community support for adopting Omegawiki - at
 least simply providing hosting.  It stalled because the code needed a
 security and style review, and Kip (the lead developer) was going to
 put some time into that.  The OW editors and dev were very interested
 in finding a way forward that involved Wikidata and led to a combined
 project with a single repository of terms, meanings, definitions and
 translations.

 Recap: The page describing the OmegaWiki project satisfies all of the
 criteria for requesting WMF adoption.
 * It is well-defined on Meta http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Omegawiki
 * It describes an interesting idea clearly aligned with expanding the
 scope of free knowledge
 * It is not a 'competing' project to Wiktionaries; it is an idea that
 grew out of the Wiktionary community, has been developed for years
 alongside it, and shares many active contributors and linguiaphiles.
 * It started an RfC which garnered 85% support for adoption.
 http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Adopt_OmegaWiki

 Even if the current OW code is not used at all for a future Wiktionary
 update -- and this idea was proposed and taken seriously by the OW
 devs -- their community of contributors should be part of discussions
 about how to solve the Wiktionary problem that they were the first to
 dedicate themselves to.

 Regards,
 Sam.

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikidata-l] Meeting about the support of Wiktionary in Wikidata

2013-08-10 Thread David Cuenca
To add up a couple of comments to what Denny said, from my experience with
Wikisource, reaching out to international, loosely connected communities is
already a big challenge on its own. I would like to invite Wiktionary
contributors to take a look to this Individual Engagement Grant project
that Aubrey and me are doing for Wikisource, because maybe it would make
sense that a group of involved Wiktionarians started a similar initiative
for Wiktionary. The original application can be found here:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Elaborate_Wikisource_strategic_vision

And the midterm report:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Elaborate_Wikisource_strategic_vision

If anyone from the Wiktionary community wants to step forward, I would be
more than happy to share experiences and provide advice.

Cheers,
Micru

On Sat, Aug 10, 2013 at 3:30 AM, Denny Vrandečić 
denny.vrande...@wikimedia.de wrote:

 [Sorry for cross-posting]

 Yes, I agree that the OmegaWiki community should be involved in the
 discussions, and I pointed GerardM to our proposals whenever and
 discussions, using him as a liaison. We also looked and keep looking at the
 OmegaWiki data model to see what we are missing.

 Our latest proposal is different from OmegaWiki in two major points:

 * our primary goal is to provide support for structured data in the
 Wiktionaries. We do not plan to be the main resource ourselves, where
 readers come to in order to look up something, we merely provide structured
 data that a Wiktionary may or may not use. This parallels the role of
 Wikidata has with regards to Wikipedia. This also highlights the difference
 between Wikidata and OmegaWiki, since OmegaWiki's goal is to create a
 dictionary of all words of all languages, including lexical, terminological
 and ontological information.

 * a smaller difference is the data model. Wikidata's latest proposal to
 support Wiktionary is centered around lexemes, and we do not assume that
 there is such a things as a language-independent defined meaning. But no
 matter what model we end up with, it is important to ensure that the bulk
 of the data could freely flow between the projects, and even though we
 might disagree on this issue in the modeling, it is ensured that the
 exchange of data is widely possible.

 We tried to keep notes on the discussion we had today: 
 http://epl.wikimedia.org/p/WiktionaryAndWikidata

 My major take home message for me is that:
 * the proposal needs more visual elements, especially a mock-up or sketch
 of how it would look like and how it could be used on the Wiktionaries
 * there is no generally accepted place for a discussion that involves all
 Wiktionary projects. Still, my initial decision to have the discussion on
 the Wikidata wiki was not a good one, and it should and will be moved to
 Meta.

 Having said that, the current proposal for the data model of how to support
 Wiktionary with Wikidata seems to have garnered a lot of support so far. So
 this is what I will continue building upon. Further comments are extremely
 welcomed. You can find it here:

 http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Wiktionary

 As said, it will be moved to Meta, as soon as the requested mockups and
 extensions are done.

 Cheers,
 Denny





 2013/8/10 Samuel Klein meta...@gmail.com

  Hello,
 
   On Fri, Aug 9, 2013 at 6:13 PM, JP Béland lebo.bel...@gmail.com
 wrote:
   I agree. We also need to include the Omegawiki community.
 
  Agreed.
 
  On Fri, Aug 9, 2013 at 12:22 PM, Laura Hale la...@fanhistory.com
 wrote:
   Why? The question of moving them into the WMF fold was pretty much no,
   because the project has an overlapping purpose with Wiktionary,
 
  This is not actually the case.
  There was overwhelming community support for adopting Omegawiki - at
  least simply providing hosting.  It stalled because the code needed a
  security and style review, and Kip (the lead developer) was going to
  put some time into that.  The OW editors and dev were very interested
  in finding a way forward that involved Wikidata and led to a combined
  project with a single repository of terms, meanings, definitions and
  translations.
 
  Recap: The page describing the OmegaWiki project satisfies all of the
  criteria for requesting WMF adoption.
  * It is well-defined on Meta http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Omegawiki
  * It describes an interesting idea clearly aligned with expanding the
  scope of free knowledge
  * It is not a 'competing' project to Wiktionaries; it is an idea that
  grew out of the Wiktionary community, has been developed for years
  alongside it, and shares many active contributors and linguiaphiles.
  * It started an RfC which garnered 85% support for adoption.
  http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Adopt_OmegaWiki
 
  Even if the current OW code is not used at all for a future Wiktionary
  update -- and this idea was proposed and taken seriously by the OW
  devs -- their community of contributors should be part of 

[Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [Wikimania-l] git.wikimedia.org dead due to wikimania ; )

2013-08-10 Thread Huib Laurens
Hello,

I always believed that our servers where monitored 24/7? But nobody seems
to be arround to fix a core part in our systems?

Huib

-- Forwarded message --
From: rupert THURNER rupert.thur...@gmail.com
Date: Sat, Aug 10, 2013 at 5:24 PM
Subject: [Wikimania-l] git.wikimedia.org dead due to wikimania ;)
To: Wikimania general list (open subscription) 
wikimani...@lists.wikimedia.org


it seems git.wikimedia.org is down due:
* no volunteer has access
* no paid person works on weekends
* everybody else is at wikimania

rupert.

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Met vriendelijke groet,

Huib Laurens
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [Wikimania-l] git.wikimedia.org dead due to wikimania ; )

2013-08-10 Thread Martijn Hoekstra
On Sat, Aug 10, 2013 at 5:31 PM, Huib Laurens sterke...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hello,

 I always believed that our servers where monitored 24/7? But nobody seems
 to be arround to fix a core part in our systems?

 Huib

 -- Forwarded message --
 From: rupert THURNER rupert.thur...@gmail.com
 Date: Sat, Aug 10, 2013 at 5:24 PM
 Subject: [Wikimania-l] git.wikimedia.org dead due to wikimania ;)
 To: Wikimania general list (open subscription) 
 wikimani...@lists.wikimedia.org


 it seems git.wikimedia.org is down due:
 * no volunteer has access
 * no paid person works on weekends
 * everybody else is at wikimania

 rupert.



Doesn't this imply that nobody is at Wikimania?



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 Met vriendelijke groet,

 Huib Laurens
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [Wikimania-l] git.wikimedia.org dead due to wikimania ; )

2013-08-10 Thread Federico Leva (Nemo)

Huib Laurens, 10/08/2013 17:31:

I always believed that our servers where monitored 24/7?


Not magically, despite the amount of unicorns bought by the WMF. You're 
looking for https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=51983



But nobody seems
to be arround to fix a core part in our systems?


No development is really prevented by gitblit being down; business as 
usual continues on gerrit.wikimedia.org and this additional reliability 
is actually what they wanted to achieve by moving gitblit (formerly 
gitweb) to a separate server.


Nemo

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [Wikimania-l] git.wikimedia.org dead due to wikimania ; )

2013-08-10 Thread MZMcBride
Huib Laurens wrote:
I always believed that our servers were monitored 24/7? But nobody seems
to be around to fix a core part in our systems?

Hi Huib.

You've been around quite a long time, so it shouldn't be new information
to you that the appropriate mailing list for an issue like this is
wikitech-l (where there's already an ongoing thread), not wikimedia-l. And
you should also know that for issues like this, the best place to search
is Bugzilla, as both Nemo and myself have now pointed out (specifically
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/51769).

You seem to be a bit confused about core v. non-core services. In the
Wikimedia world, core functionality generally means that the wikis are
accessible for, at the very minimum, read access. Peripheral services and
sites have varying levels of criticality, though there's no rating system
in which git.wikimedia.org (a simple Git repository viewer) would be
considered core (though it being completely down can be considered
critical, as it makes development work more tedious and annoying).

Obviously the operations team has a number of monitoring systems in place.
The public monitoring dashboard is here: http://status.wikimedia.org.

MZMcBride



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