Re: [Wikimedia-l] Please, let's save the Wikipedia - from itself

2013-09-04 Thread Lars Gardenius
I think you are completely right and it is a big problem in the Wiki-world that 
is not being addressed by anyone in a leading position.

Regards,
Lars Gardenius





 Von: Rui Correia correia@gmail.com
An: Wikimedia Mailing List wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org 
Gesendet: 23:08 Mittwoch, 4.September 2013
Betreff: [Wikimedia-l] Please, let's save the Wikipedia - from itself
 

Greetings to All

Let me start by saying that I don't do much here at the WP, not compared to
people who make hundreds of edits a week. I would love to, have a long list
of to-do, but unfortunately time is not on my side.

In my limited involvemet here, I have seen many a good editor leave the
project. Mostly, people leave because they can't take it anymore having to
fight the 'blocks' of defenders that coalesce around certain topics.

In itself, though not very healthy, such blocks forming around topis is
fine. What is not fine is that if any issue gets referred to a higher
process for a resolution, it is often the same people grouping of people
previously involved in disputes on the same topic who come to the
resolution forum to issue a decision. However, it is always the 'outsider'
that loses. He gets acused of everything under the sun, and gets 'good
advice' from supposedly neutral editors, urging him to calm down, to temper
his language etc. It is like trying to point out that the earth is round at
a monthly meetng of the fat-earthers. That is not healthy and is making the
WP processes look like a kangaroo court run by a cabal.

And I expect pretty much the same reaction to this email.

I pointed out in an ealier email to this list the difficulty that one
encounters when you include something negative about certain big
corporations. I was stoned and made to feel that I was wrong and everbody
else was right. The reaction was tantamount to a chorus of yes, we know
there are problems, but don't say it out loud, someone might hear you!.

Let's for argument's say that I was wrong. But - more importantantly - was
anything done to investigate what I was saying? What if there are legions
out there paid to sanitise the pages of big corporations? And we know that
they exist, and that WP has taken up the issue as in here,
http://nick-xomba-ceo.xomba.com/microsoft_accused_of_paying_blogger_to_alter_wikipedia_articles

I made a silly remark on a Talk page about the choice of the word
downgrade to refer to people using Windows 8 who wanted to go back to XP.
For a failed product, by Microsoft's own admission, going back to XP is an
upgrade, going back to sanity, not a downgrade.

I was first accused of trolling, then something else, then of offending the
entire community of users of Windows 8. The editor who is adamant - not the
first time - to purge ant-MS from the talkpage violated the 3RR, but
nothing gets done about it. I reported the 3RR, and it was immediately
closed, labelled as being relatiatory. There is a backlog of issues on that
page, but my entry was closed within minutes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Edit_warring#User:Codename_Lisa_reported_by_User:Rui_Gabriel_Correia_.28Result:_Closed.29

It was closed, claiming that it was already being addressed elsewhere.

So, I too will consider my stay here. Like I said right at the top, I don't
do much here, so I am certain I will not even be missed. I edit in eight
languages, small little bits here and there. I participated in a number of
initiaves on the development of Chapters in Africa and am happy to see that
things are moving. I had the honour and privilege to meet Jimmy Wales in
South Africa and to discuss a few things relating to WP in Africa.

So, it is time to wind down anr retire into a corner. I am busy with a
novel, I am sure that is where I should invest my time and energy.

Sincere regards to all, happy editing

Rui Correia






-- 
_
Rui Correia
Advocacy, Human Rights, Media and Language Work Consultant
Bridge to Angola - Angola Liaison Consultant

Mobile Number in South Africa +27 74 425 4186
Número de Telemóvel na África do Sul +27 74 425 4186
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Please, let's save the Wikipedia - from itself

2013-09-04 Thread Rui Correia
Thanks, Lars

Much appreciated.

Regards,

Rui


On 4 September 2013 23:35, Lars Gardenius lars.garden...@yahoo.de wrote:

 I think you are completely right and it is a big problem in the Wiki-world
 that is not being addressed by anyone in a leading position.

 Regards,
 Lars Gardenius




 
  Von: Rui Correia correia@gmail.com
 An: Wikimedia Mailing List wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Gesendet: 23:08 Mittwoch, 4.September 2013
 Betreff: [Wikimedia-l] Please, let's save the Wikipedia - from itself


 Greetings to All

 Let me start by saying that I don't do much here at the WP, not compared to
 people who make hundreds of edits a week. I would love to, have a long list
 of to-do, but unfortunately time is not on my side.

 In my limited involvemet here, I have seen many a good editor leave the
 project. Mostly, people leave because they can't take it anymore having to
 fight the 'blocks' of defenders that coalesce around certain topics.

 In itself, though not very healthy, such blocks forming around topis is
 fine. What is not fine is that if any issue gets referred to a higher
 process for a resolution, it is often the same people grouping of people
 previously involved in disputes on the same topic who come to the
 resolution forum to issue a decision. However, it is always the 'outsider'
 that loses. He gets acused of everything under the sun, and gets 'good
 advice' from supposedly neutral editors, urging him to calm down, to temper
 his language etc. It is like trying to point out that the earth is round at
 a monthly meetng of the fat-earthers. That is not healthy and is making the
 WP processes look like a kangaroo court run by a cabal.

 And I expect pretty much the same reaction to this email.

 I pointed out in an ealier email to this list the difficulty that one
 encounters when you include something negative about certain big
 corporations. I was stoned and made to feel that I was wrong and everbody
 else was right. The reaction was tantamount to a chorus of yes, we know
 there are problems, but don't say it out loud, someone might hear you!.

 Let's for argument's say that I was wrong. But - more importantantly - was
 anything done to investigate what I was saying? What if there are legions
 out there paid to sanitise the pages of big corporations? And we know that
 they exist, and that WP has taken up the issue as in here,

 http://nick-xomba-ceo.xomba.com/microsoft_accused_of_paying_blogger_to_alter_wikipedia_articles

 I made a silly remark on a Talk page about the choice of the word
 downgrade to refer to people using Windows 8 who wanted to go back to XP.
 For a failed product, by Microsoft's own admission, going back to XP is an
 upgrade, going back to sanity, not a downgrade.

 I was first accused of trolling, then something else, then of offending the
 entire community of users of Windows 8. The editor who is adamant - not the
 first time - to purge ant-MS from the talkpage violated the 3RR, but
 nothing gets done about it. I reported the 3RR, and it was immediately
 closed, labelled as being relatiatory. There is a backlog of issues on that
 page, but my entry was closed within minutes.

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Edit_warring#User:Codename_Lisa_reported_by_User:Rui_Gabriel_Correia_.28Result:_Closed.29

 It was closed, claiming that it was already being addressed elsewhere.

 So, I too will consider my stay here. Like I said right at the top, I don't
 do much here, so I am certain I will not even be missed. I edit in eight
 languages, small little bits here and there. I participated in a number of
 initiaves on the development of Chapters in Africa and am happy to see that
 things are moving. I had the honour and privilege to meet Jimmy Wales in
 South Africa and to discuss a few things relating to WP in Africa.

 So, it is time to wind down anr retire into a corner. I am busy with a
 novel, I am sure that is where I should invest my time and energy.

 Sincere regards to all, happy editing

 Rui Correia






 --
 _
 Rui Correia
 Advocacy, Human Rights, Media and Language Work Consultant
 Bridge to Angola - Angola Liaison Consultant

 Mobile Number in South Africa +27 74 425 4186
 Número de Telemóvel na África do Sul +27 74 425 4186
 ___
 ___
 Wikimedia-l mailing list
 Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
 mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
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 Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
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-- 
_
Rui Correia
Advocacy, Human Rights, Media and Language Work Consultant
Bridge to Angola - Angola Liaison 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Please, let's save the Wikipedia - from itself

2013-09-04 Thread Rui Correia
Thanks, Fred

Much appreciated.

Regards,

Rui


On 5 September 2013 01:16, Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.net wrote:

 It is addressed but by a rather complicated and demanding process. See
 Wikipedia:Dispute resolution. Not really workable for new users who bump
 up against well-established users who have bad habits, or have learned
 that nasty behavior pays off in being able to control content.

 Fred

  I think you are completely right and it is a big problem in the
  Wiki-world that is not being addressed by anyone in a leading position.
 
  Regards,
  Lars Gardenius
 
 
 
 
  
   Von: Rui Correia correia@gmail.com
  An: Wikimedia Mailing List wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
  Gesendet: 23:08 Mittwoch, 4.September 2013
  Betreff: [Wikimedia-l] Please, let's save the Wikipedia - from itself
 
 
  Greetings to All
 
  Let me start by saying that I don't do much here at the WP, not compared
  to
  people who make hundreds of edits a week. I would love to, have a long
  list
  of to-do, but unfortunately time is not on my side.
 
  In my limited involvemet here, I have seen many a good editor leave the
  project. Mostly, people leave because they can't take it anymore having
  to
  fight the 'blocks' of defenders that coalesce around certain topics.
 
  In itself, though not very healthy, such blocks forming around topis is
  fine. What is not fine is that if any issue gets referred to a higher
  process for a resolution, it is often the same people grouping of people
  previously involved in disputes on the same topic who come to the
  resolution forum to issue a decision. However, it is always the
  'outsider'
  that loses. He gets acused of everything under the sun, and gets 'good
  advice' from supposedly neutral editors, urging him to calm down, to
  temper
  his language etc. It is like trying to point out that the earth is round
  at
  a monthly meetng of the fat-earthers. That is not healthy and is making
  the
  WP processes look like a kangaroo court run by a cabal.
 
  And I expect pretty much the same reaction to this email.
 
  I pointed out in an ealier email to this list the difficulty that one
  encounters when you include something negative about certain big
  corporations. I was stoned and made to feel that I was wrong and everbody
  else was right. The reaction was tantamount to a chorus of yes, we know
  there are problems, but don't say it out loud, someone might hear you!.
 
  Let's for argument's say that I was wrong. But - more importantantly -
  was
  anything done to investigate what I was saying? What if there are legions
  out there paid to sanitise the pages of big corporations? And we know
  that
  they exist, and that WP has taken up the issue as in here,
 
 http://nick-xomba-ceo.xomba.com/microsoft_accused_of_paying_blogger_to_alter_wikipedia_articles
 
  I made a silly remark on a Talk page about the choice of the word
  downgrade to refer to people using Windows 8 who wanted to go back to
  XP.
  For a failed product, by Microsoft's own admission, going back to XP is
  an
  upgrade, going back to sanity, not a downgrade.
 
  I was first accused of trolling, then something else, then of offending
  the
  entire community of users of Windows 8. The editor who is adamant - not
  the
  first time - to purge ant-MS from the talkpage violated the 3RR, but
  nothing gets done about it. I reported the 3RR, and it was immediately
  closed, labelled as being relatiatory. There is a backlog of issues on
  that
  page, but my entry was closed within minutes.
 
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Edit_warring#User:Codename_Lisa_reported_by_User:Rui_Gabriel_Correia_.28Result:_Closed.29
 
  It was closed, claiming that it was already being addressed elsewhere.
 
  So, I too will consider my stay here. Like I said right at the top, I
  don't
  do much here, so I am certain I will not even be missed. I edit in eight
  languages, small little bits here and there. I participated in a number
  of
  initiaves on the development of Chapters in Africa and am happy to see
  that
  things are moving. I had the honour and privilege to meet Jimmy Wales in
  South Africa and to discuss a few things relating to WP in Africa.
 
  So, it is time to wind down anr retire into a corner. I am busy with a
  novel, I am sure that is where I should invest my time and energy.
 
  Sincere regards to all, happy editing
 
  Rui Correia
 
 
 
 
 
 
  --
  _
  Rui Correia
  Advocacy, Human Rights, Media and Language Work Consultant
  Bridge to Angola - Angola Liaison Consultant
 
  Mobile Number in South Africa +27 74 425 4186
  Número de Telemóvel na à frica do Sul +27 74 425 4186
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  ___
  Wikimedia-l mailing list
  Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
  Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
  

[Wikimedia-l] Etherpad Lite labs instance going down in two days - backup time

2013-09-04 Thread Sumana Harihareswara
Reminder: etherpad.wmflabs.org will end in two days.
-Sumana

On 08/23/2013 01:20 PM, Sumana Harihareswara wrote:
 And just as a reminder: etherpad.wikimedia.org is not a production-level
 service, and therefore any data within an etherpad
 should be considered both public and able to disappear at any time.
 This is one reason I recommend that people use Etherpads for short-term
 defined collaboration sessions, and frequently do backups, and always
 archive documents to a wiki after a session ends.
 
 -- Sumana Harihareswara Engineering Community Manager Wikimedia
 Foundation On 08/23/2013 04:16 PM, Sumana Harihareswara wrote:
  Thanks to Mark Holmquist for maintaining http://etherpad.wmflabs.org for
  the past long while. It is going down in 2 weeks, so please retrieve
  your text.
  
  I recommend that you:
  
  * go into your browser history
  * search it for etherpad.wmflabs.org
  * go to each of those pads and copy-and-paste the content someplace,
  preferably on a public wiki, even if it's just in your userspace
  * replace the content of the Etherpad with a link to the wiki page
  you've moved the text to
  
  -Sumana
  
  
   Original Message 
  Subject: [Wikitech-l] Etherpad Lite labs instance going down in two
  weeks - backup time
  Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2013 13:02:13 -0700
  From: Mark Holmquist mtrac...@member.fsf.org
  Reply-To: Wikimedia developers wikitec...@lists.wikimedia.org
  To: wikitec...@lists.wikimedia.org, engineer...@lists.wikimedia.org,
  lab...@lists.wikimedia.org
  
  The day we have all equally hoped for and dreaded is come to pass: Etherpad
  Lite has now replaced Etherpad Classic in production, and the labs
  instance
  is on its way out.
  
  This is my as-wide-as-possible email warning to say that everything on the
  labs instance, as really should have been expected, is going to be gone
  soon.
  Not immediately - we intend to give you two weeks to get your important 
  data
  off the instance and onto the new one at https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/ -
  but you should _absolutely_ be moving things as soon as possible. We will
  also keep a data dump around, in case anything else needs to get pulled out
  of the pads, but I would suggest not relying on that if you don't have to.
  
  And in the future: If a URL has wmflabs.org in it...don't put anything,
  ANYTHING, important there. The purpose of labs is to let us experiment with
  new technology without having to worry about reliability.
  
  Thanks so much for your help and understanding in the course of this
  migration.
  
  tl;dr: http://etherpad.wmflabs.org is going down in 2 weeks, get yer
  stuff off it.


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Please, let's save the Wikipedia - from itself

2013-09-04 Thread Josh Lim
I think what we need to consider here is where the loyalties of many of these 
so-called problematic editors reside, whether their dedication to maintaining 
the content where their expertise has been valuable has been harmful to the 
overall health of the community.  While I think we are all on the side of 
Wikipedia here and we all have a genuine interest in improving the encyclopedia 
for everyone, we have gone to the point where we have started to perpetuate the 
idea that some are better at it than others, similar to that declaration in 
Animal Farmthat all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others.

There are many reasons as to why this is the case, but I guess we need to 
reiterate the need for us to break down barriers here, both between ourselves 
as editors (step away from compartmentalizing ourselves into spaces where 
everyone else will agree with us because we are familiar with them), and 
between ourselves as people.  The latter, however, is very difficult to do, and 
it is one of the challenges that we have to face if we will want to assure 
Wikipedia's future success.

Regards,

Josh

 
JAMES JOSHUA G. LIM
Block I1, AB Political Science
Major in Global Politics, Minor in Chinese Studies
Class of 2013, Ateneo de Manila University
Quezon City, Metro Manila, Philippines

Trustee (2010-2013), Wikimedia Philippines
Member, Ateneo Debate Society
Member, The Assembly

jamesjoshua...@yahoo.com | +63 (927) 531-8301
Friendster/Facebook/Twitter: akiestar | Wikimedia: Sky Harbor
http://akira123323.livejournal.com




 From: Rui Correia correia@gmail.com
To: Wikimedia Mailing List wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org 
Sent: Thursday, September 5, 2013 5:08 AM
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Please, let's save the Wikipedia - from itself
 

Greetings to All

Let me start by saying that I don't do much here at the WP, not compared to
people who make hundreds of edits a week. I would love to, have a long list
of to-do, but unfortunately time is not on my side.

In my limited involvemet here, I have seen many a good editor leave the
project. Mostly, people leave because they can't take it anymore having to
fight the 'blocks' of defenders that coalesce around certain topics.

In itself, though not very healthy, such blocks forming around topis is
fine. What is not fine is that if any issue gets referred to a higher
process for a resolution, it is often the same people grouping of people
previously involved in disputes on the same topic who come to the
resolution forum to issue a decision. However, it is always the 'outsider'
that loses. He gets acused of everything under the sun, and gets 'good
advice' from supposedly neutral editors, urging him to calm down, to temper
his language etc. It is like trying to point out that the earth is round at
a monthly meetng of the fat-earthers. That is not healthy and is making the
WP processes look like a kangaroo court run by a cabal.

And I expect pretty much the same reaction to this email.

I pointed out in an ealier email to this list the difficulty that one
encounters when you include something negative about certain big
corporations. I was stoned and made to feel that I was wrong and everbody
else was right. The reaction was tantamount to a chorus of yes, we know
there are problems, but don't say it out loud, someone might hear you!.

Let's for argument's say that I was wrong. But - more importantantly - was
anything done to investigate what I was saying? What if there are legions
out there paid to sanitise the pages of big corporations? And we know that
they exist, and that WP has taken up the issue as in here,
http://nick-xomba-ceo.xomba.com/microsoft_accused_of_paying_blogger_to_alter_wikipedia_articles

I made a silly remark on a Talk page about the choice of the word
downgrade to refer to people using Windows 8 who wanted to go back to XP.
For a failed product, by Microsoft's own admission, going back to XP is an
upgrade, going back to sanity, not a downgrade.

I was first accused of trolling, then something else, then of offending the
entire community of users of Windows 8. The editor who is adamant - not the
first time - to purge ant-MS from the talkpage violated the 3RR, but
nothing gets done about it. I reported the 3RR, and it was immediately
closed, labelled as being relatiatory. There is a backlog of issues on that
page, but my entry was closed within minutes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Edit_warring#User:Codename_Lisa_reported_by_User:Rui_Gabriel_Correia_.28Result:_Closed.29

It was closed, claiming that it was already being addressed elsewhere.

So, I too will consider my stay here. Like I said right at the top, I don't
do much here, so I am certain I will not even be missed. I edit in eight
languages, small little bits here and there. I participated in a number of
initiaves on the development of Chapters in Africa and am happy to see that
things are moving. I had the