Re: [Wikimedia-l] About the concentration of resources in SF (it was: "Communication plans for community engagement"

[Federico Leva (Nemo)]

Sorry for double post; Erik's post below is useful to illustrate my 
point which I failed to communicate 
().


Erik Moeller, 28/07/2013 09:31:

On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 8:41 PM, Craig Franklin
 wrote:

For the benefit of chapters that are interested in this space, can you
offer any examples of projects that are of an appropriate size and type for
a chapter to take on?


It's a great question, Craig. One idea that I think is worth kicking
around is how we can partner together in increasing diversity in our
developer, design & product community while working on important
problems. [...]

So, how could this work for a Wikimedia chapter? Perhaps as a new
diversity outreach program run by the chapter, inspired by OPW? Or
perhaps integrated with OPW, if GNOME Foundation is open to it? Or a
completely different approach, e.g. learning from Etsy's efforts to
increase diversity by partnering with Hacker School? [1] I don't know
- but I think it's worth experimenting with.


I don't know if this is *the* way forward, but I think this proposal is 
an example of something that makes sense. Why? It defines a scope which 
works towards the goals and plans of all involved entities together 
(overlap) but is also under the control of each of them separately 
(accountability etc.).
So, if e.g. WMF decides not to enable the new extension produced by an 
intern, at least the chapter can say it has successfully increased 
diversity in the developer community. Don't put all your eggs in one 
basket; especially if you're not holding it.


Nemo



I do think it's something a small org could pull off, because a lot of
it is about communication/coordination more than about managing a
complex cross-disciplinary engineering effort. And it's perhaps a good
way for a chapter, too, to get familiar with some of the intricacies
and complexity of doing engineering work in our context without
committing yet to building out a full-on tech department.

The important part is that we connect people new to our ecosystem with
capable mentors/reviewers -- whether those are experienced volunteers,
employed by WMF, or employed by a chapter that's already doing
engineering work like WMDE. Without that mentorship support, it
doesn't work.

Erik

[1] 
http://firstround.com/article/How-Etsy-Grew-their-Number-of-Female-Engineers-by-500-in-One-Year



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] About the concentration of resources in SF (itwas: "Communication plans for community engagement"

[Federico Leva (Nemo)]

Quim Gil, 26/08/2013 20:02:

On 08/24/2013 01:19 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote:

http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Mentorship_programs/Possible_projects



I don't see why the chapters couldn't consider this list as a source of
inspiration for software projects they could sponsor.


Well, I see several possible reasons.
1) Some of them are definitely WMF-specific, like the bugzilla
improvements. No reason for a chapter to even touch those.


office.wikimedia.org is WMF-specific. bugzilla.wikimedia.org is not.
These projects list features that would benefit the whole community, not
just the WMF.


I didn't say bugzilla is WMF-specific, but maintaining and curating 
bugzilla is very clearly in the exclusive scope of WMF as of now. Even 
the most minuscule changes like adding a keyword (stupid example) are 
decided by WMF (for a reason).




Wikidata and Kiwix are mentioned as success stories of tech projects
driven by chapters. Is Wikidata Germany-specific? Does Switzerland
really need offine Wikipedia?


The answer to these questions is actually "yes" in part, but I agree we 
can ignore it.



No, these chapters decided to go beyond
their strict duties and make a technical contribution just as useful to
the rest of us.


It's not about will but about feasibility.




2) Others rely heavily on WMF to be put in use, or interact/overlap
heavily with current work by WMF. The list is very good because it
provides a) proof of interest by WMF, b) a mentor who serves as contact
with WMF to keep things on track and avoid clashes. However, several of
those projects, if completed, could still sit on a dead end like many
GSoC projects in the past.


 From the 20 ongoing projects, all of them are generating code that has
a place in the Wikimedia servers. This is no coincidence: we set strong
filters during the selection process to avoid all these problems you are
mentioning.


You can't eliminate them, only reduce the risks. So this is only 
tangential to what I was saying (i.e. all the parts you cut out of your 
quote).


Nemo



To anybody willing to take a tech project: just ask or share your plans
in advance to make sure your contributions will be as useful for the
community as you expect.


Typically, a chapter would be interested either because "its" language
communities have a particular interest in something, or as a part of
some other project of the chapter (Commons improvements are probably the
easiest to fit in here).


Sure, I'm just trying to encourage chapters and other orgs to ask their
communities about tech projects they would like to help developing. And
to consider budget, grants, hackathons etc to complete those projects.
If these orgs don't do this then any tech decentralization will be harder.



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia blog moving to WordPress.com

[K. Peachey]

A text editor, pushing to git, and then running a script and isn't hard.

It would just a few new skills that they can learn.


On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 3:10 PM, User Mono  wrote:

> Yeah,  that's convenient.  Make the press team use programming software to
> write a blog post?  That is absurd.
>
> There comes a point when things need to get done and they just need to
> work imho.
>
> --- Original Message ---
>
> From: "K. Peachey" 
> Sent: September 8, 2013 8:59 PM
> To: "Wikimedia Mailing List" 
> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia blog moving to WordPress.com
>
> If self hosting WP is being a issue, We should look at sustianiable
> alternatives compared to just chucking the baby out with the bath water
> because it's "too hard".
>
> I personally would love to see us usign a ncie GIT based backend produces
> static html outputs for the blog (Cachability++ Security++).
>
> The only issue I forsee with such a option is choosing a comment system
> that we could embed.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia blog moving to WordPress.com

[User Mono]

Yeah,  that's convenient.  Make the press team use programming software to 
write a blog post?  That is absurd.

There comes a point when things need to get done and they just need to work 
imho.

--- Original Message ---

From: "K. Peachey" 
Sent: September 8, 2013 8:59 PM
To: "Wikimedia Mailing List" 
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia blog moving to WordPress.com

If self hosting WP is being a issue, We should look at sustianiable
alternatives compared to just chucking the baby out with the bath water
because it's "too hard".

I personally would love to see us usign a ncie GIT based backend produces
static html outputs for the blog (Cachability++ Security++).

The only issue I forsee with such a option is choosing a comment system
that we could embed.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia blog moving to WordPress.com

[K. Peachey]

If self hosting WP is being a issue, We should look at sustianiable
alternatives compared to just chucking the baby out with the bath water
because it's "too hard".

I personally would love to see us usign a ncie GIT based backend produces
static html outputs for the blog (Cachability++ Security++).

The only issue I forsee with such a option is choosing a comment system
that we could embed.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Please, let's save the Wikipedia - from itself

[David Goodman]

All live societies have conflict.   WP, with perhaps the greatest personal
and social diversity of any organization, will inevitably have quite a bit
of it.  All societies also have some form of dispute resolution. In all
societies, the purpose  of dispute resolution is to resolve disputes, not
necessarily to bring about Justice. In practice, the effect is almost
always  to resolve disputes by reinforcing the structure of the established
society against dissidents and mavericks.  A DR process sponsored and
controlled by the central organization using professionals, will do this
effectively--that is, they will effectively support the existing power
structure and the people in positions of authority. If they are clever,
they will manage to reconcile as many dissidents as possible with the
overall structure, without being too harsh on them. But if they are to be
effective, they must also deal with those who wish to subvert the structure
of the society, though a sophisticated process can also do this relatively
gently.

The centralizing tendencies of WP are already very great--in some cases too
great to permit the users to have the necessary flexibility and
independence to remain creative. The effect of multiple layers of appeal
can be to correct some injustices, but it can also more effectively
suppress individualism, by diverting direct conflicts into bureaucratic
channels & exhausting the participants with elaborate procedure.  People
may wish an arrangement to correct injustice against them--but what if the
result is to decide for their opponents? At least in the enWP, I advise
people against using any level or variant of formal DR if there is any
alternative: if you bring  a case for decision, you may permanently lose;
if you avoid formal process, you can keep trying.  Those people who have
asked me for advice and gone to arb com or AN/I or other process against my
invariable advice not to, have always been the worse for it.  The better
remedy for losing a particular argument on an issue is to work on other
issues. The better remedy for pervasive injustice is to organize
opposition.




On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 5:44 PM, Fred Bauder  wrote:

> > привет Ð¯Ñ€Ð¾Ñ Ð»Ð°Ð²,
> >
> > Yes, I am very serious. I was though only arguing about the members of
> > this instance, be it an 'arbitration committe' or an ombudsman or
> > whatever, with the duty to protect users from mobbing and abuses in the
> > Wikis.
> >
> > We must though be aware that there are very different countries in the
> > world. What is possible in one part of the world is not possible in
> > another. I am aware of the present situation in Russia and pity the
> > Russians. I think the Wikis should at least reflect the society they are
> > working in, not be worse, and it could be difficult to be better (I am
> > still just talking about stopping mobbing and abuses in the Wikis).
> >
> > I am certain that a committe could help against mobbing in Wikis even in
> > Russia and in other countries with similar kind of problems. You could
> > though perhaps, for reason that you express, not get any help from the
> > outside society. If the members of such a committe would have any
> > problems with the authorities or hooligans in such a country I don't
> > know, but that could be an argument for placing it outside Russia (and
> > other countries). Perhaps even just have one international instance.
> >
> > Let me tell you a little about my own experiences to explain what I
> > wrote. In my country we have a lot of ombudsmen to protect citizens from
> > child abuse, harassment of immigrants and a lot of other things. The
> > persons working with these questions are very public, you can find their
> > names, photos etc. on the web. I have had a lot of contacts with these
> > people during the last year. I have never heard of one single instance
> > when they have been attacked, harassed or anything else. That is quite
> > natural, I think, they have the protection of the surrounding society. If
> > someone harassed or abused them, he/she be sued or arrested.
> >
> > The situation is the same for people working against mobbing in schools
> > and companies. They are of course also public persons. Still I have never
> > heard of anyone being attacked. The reason is the same as above. If these
> > persons were anonymous it would partly look very stupid and partly they
> > could not do their job properly.
> >
> > I do not see any reason why the situation wouldn't be the same for such
> > an instance in the Wikis. As I said above the persons must be
> > professional and hired by the Wikis, to get the right authority and
> > respect. Where they are placed physically is not so important since there
> > role is only to act within the Wikis (not in the society), perhaps one
> > shouldn't choose Russia though.
> >
> > I really think that it also has a psychological role not to be anonymous.
> > The method of mobbers and extreme political movements is to dehumanize

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia blog moving to WordPress.com

[Andrew Gray]

Once we have Flow working well, then a Media-Wiki based public blog
with comments might actually be workable (and it'd be nice to have
comments mesh seamlessly with WM accounts).

However, that's still a year or two off - I don't think it's any
reason not to transfer the blog for now, assuming we can handle the
privacy issues that implies. We can always move back if we develop the
mediawiki magic bullet :-)

A.

On 8 September 2013 14:08, David Gerard  wrote:
> On 8 September 2013 13:16, David Gerard  wrote:
>
>> Because turning MediaWiki from a terrible blogging platform into a
>> good one (comment management and blog-style RSS at absolute minimum)
>> would be more work than even maintaining our own WordPress
>> installation.
>
>
>
> Chatting with Rupert about this just now, he pointed out that Wikinews
> does RSS just fine:
>
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:GoogleNewsSitemap
>
> The URL is ugly (but that's why mod_rewrite exists):
>
> https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Special:NewsFeed&feed=atom&categories=Published¬categories=No%20publish|Archived|AutoArchived|disputed&namespace=0&count=30&hourcount=124&ordermethod=categoryadd&stablepages=only
>
> So that's that problem actually solved (and I thought that'd be the hard one).
>
> Comments remain a problem: LiquidThreads is unloved and largely
> unmaintained, and Flow is barely started.
>
>
> - d.
>
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-- 
- Andrew Gray
  andrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia blog moving to WordPress.com

[David Gerard]

That said, WordPress is the best blogging software because it does
everything you'd want a blog to do. Moving from that to cobbling
together a blog in MediaWiki would be like moving to TiddlyWiki
because MediaWiki is hard.

As someone who has to administer WordPress for work, I think almost
everyone who self-hosts WordPress should just be outsourcing it to
wordpress.com. (I self-host my own sites 'cos I'm a control addict and
because I know enough to do it relatively safely.)

* security hole of the month, requiring immediate upgrade to latest
* keeping PHP from eating all your memory (fiddling with fcgid)
* multisite functionality is weird, clunky and frequently just doesn't
work properly
* wp-cron.php is an abomination and should be disabled wherever possible
* etc etc.

So outsourcing it is basically a good idea - if we can meet privacy
policy and, more stringently, privacy *expectations*. Expectations are
going to be more stringent than the letter of the policy, but we
should still meet them for the blog just as well as we presently do.


- d.

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia blog moving to WordPress.com

[David Gerard]

On 8 September 2013 13:16, David Gerard  wrote:

> Because turning MediaWiki from a terrible blogging platform into a
> good one (comment management and blog-style RSS at absolute minimum)
> would be more work than even maintaining our own WordPress
> installation.



Chatting with Rupert about this just now, he pointed out that Wikinews
does RSS just fine:

https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:GoogleNewsSitemap

The URL is ugly (but that's why mod_rewrite exists):

https://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Special:NewsFeed&feed=atom&categories=Published¬categories=No%20publish|Archived|AutoArchived|disputed&namespace=0&count=30&hourcount=124&ordermethod=categoryadd&stablepages=only

So that's that problem actually solved (and I thought that'd be the hard one).

Comments remain a problem: LiquidThreads is unloved and largely
unmaintained, and Flow is barely started.


- d.

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia blog moving to WordPress.com

[David Gerard]

On 8 September 2013 13:06, rupert THURNER  wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 10:20 PM, Matthew Roth  wrote:

>> Drafting on wiki is more of a good process than an ideal way to publish the
>> content, in my opinion.

> why?


Because turning MediaWiki from a terrible blogging platform into a
good one (comment management and blog-style RSS at absolute minimum)
would be more work than even maintaining our own WordPress
installation.


- d.

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia blog moving to WordPress.com

[rupert THURNER]

On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 10:20 PM, Matthew Roth  wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 12:53 PM, rupert THURNER 
> wrote:
>
>> What should not be missed out in the discussion is the fact that blog post
>> according to current guidelines should be written on the wiki.
>
>
> We started drafting blog posts on Meta to encourage transparency and make
> it easier to translate them. Mike Peel suggested we start doing it and it
> makes sense for most posts (rather than drafting them locally on your
> computer, or in another program). It's also easier this way for blog
> editors because Tilman has written a
> scriptthat
> quickly converts markup to html.
>
> Drafting on wiki is more of a good process than an ideal way to publish the
> content, in my opinion.

why?

rupert.

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia DC Q3 2012-13 Activity Report

[Itzik Edri]

Great design and a great report. Thank you Kirill


On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 3:17 AM, Kirill Lokshin <
kirill.loks...@wikimediadc.org> wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> Wikimedia DC has now published its activity report for the third quarter of
> the 2012-13 fiscal year.  The report is available on our wiki at
> http://wikimediadc.org/wiki/Activity_report_(Q3_2012–2013); a copy will be
> uploaded to meta shortly.
>
> As always, comments or suggestions are very welcome!
>
> Cheers,
> Kirill
>
> --
> Kirill Lokshin
> Secretary | Wikimedia District of Columbia
> http://wikimediadc.org | @wikimediadc
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