Re: [Wikimedia-l] Copyright infringement - The real elephant in the room

2013-11-20 Thread
On 19 November 2013 20:44, Samuel Klein meta...@gmail.com wrote:
 Aside @Fae: the tineye crew are curious  quite pro-freeculture, I bet they
 would be glad to help design a bot that uses their API to check image
 copyvios.

This is an area this spins off from my little experiments with better
management of uploads to Commons from mobile devices. I would like to
look at this again and perhaps get a funding proposal together (or
partnership with Tineye if they are up for it), It is one of several
creative back-burner volunteer projects that I hope to have time to
dig into again next year.

Fae

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Copyright infringement - The real elephant in the room

2013-11-20 Thread The Cunctator
Yes, let's keep on pushing for policies that drive away editors!
On Nov 20, 2013 2:10 AM, Fæ fae...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 19 November 2013 20:44, Samuel Klein meta...@gmail.com wrote:
  Aside @Fae: the tineye crew are curious  quite pro-freeculture, I bet
 they
  would be glad to help design a bot that uses their API to check image
  copyvios.

 This is an area this spins off from my little experiments with better
 management of uploads to Commons from mobile devices. I would like to
 look at this again and perhaps get a funding proposal together (or
 partnership with Tineye if they are up for it), It is one of several
 creative back-burner volunteer projects that I hope to have time to
 dig into again next year.

 Fae

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Copyright infringement - The real elephant in the room

2013-11-20 Thread Martijn Hoekstra
On Nov 20, 2013 1:13 PM, The Cunctator cuncta...@gmail.com wrote:

 Yes, let's keep on pushing for policies that drive away editors!

I'm not sure exactly what kind of policy you are getting at here. Could you
elaborate a little?

 On Nov 20, 2013 2:10 AM, Fæ fae...@gmail.com wrote:

  On 19 November 2013 20:44, Samuel Klein meta...@gmail.com wrote:
   Aside @Fae: the tineye crew are curious  quite pro-freeculture, I bet
  they
   would be glad to help design a bot that uses their API to check image
   copyvios.
 
  This is an area this spins off from my little experiments with better
  management of uploads to Commons from mobile devices. I would like to
  look at this again and perhaps get a funding proposal together (or
  partnership with Tineye if they are up for it), It is one of several
  creative back-burner volunteer projects that I hope to have time to
  dig into again next year.
 
  Fae
 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimediaindia-l] Fwd: A2K, its lies and irresponsibilities

2013-11-20 Thread Vishnu T
Dear Ansuman,

Thanks for flagging this. All the profiles of the CIS-A2K team members are
now updated. Please see [1].

Best,
Vishnu

[1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/India_Access_To_Knowledge/Team

On 28 October 2013 16:46, ansuman ansum...@gmail.com wrote:



 Me:
 Please make available the job descriptions/roles for all the employees at
 meta and share the same in the mailing list.

 Vishnu:
 YES WE ARE REWORKING THE PROFILES AS THE EARLIER ROLES ARE NO MORE
 RELEVANT. WE WILL TAKE THIS UP ON PRIORITY AND PUT IT UP ON META. THE LINKS
 TO A2K TEAM MEMBER PROFILES, SHARED EVERY MONTH IN A2K NEWSLETTERS, WILL IN
 FUTURE BE LINKED TO THE META PAGES.
 --To
 unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit
 https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimediaindia-l] Fwd: A2K, its lies and irresponsibilities

2013-11-20 Thread Vishnu T
Dear Ansuman,

On 28 October 2013 16:46, ansuman ansum...@gmail.com wrote:

 Why still *2* new recruits are missing even after several months, at
 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/India_Access_To_Knowledge/Teamhttp://bl-1.com/click/load/ADAAMlM2Um8Hb1w7CTw-b0231
 ,

 Why there is no *monthly reports* updated on meta,
 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/India_Access_To_Knowledge/Reportshttp://bl-1.com/click/load/VGRaaABlVmtQOFA3AjA-b0231

 Why there is no *community Mid-year reports* updated,
 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/India_Access_To_Knowledge/Reportshttp://bl-1.com/click/load/VmZZawdiAj9ROVUyBDc-b0231


A comprehensive mid-term grant report for the period Sept. 2012 to June
2013 of CIS-A2K is published on Meta here [1].

CIS-A2K had been publishing monthly newsletters and circulating it widely
to the community through the Indian mailing lists. These give an accurate
picture of the CIS-A2K activities on a monthly basis and serve as a monthly
report of the work done. We will also initiate measures to put up these
details on Meta as indicated here [2].

Best,
Vishnu

[1] http://bit.ly/A2K-NR
[2]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/India_Access_To_Knowledge/Reports#Monthly_Reports
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimediaindia-l] Fwd: A2K, its lies and irresponsibilities

2013-11-20 Thread Vishnu T
Dear Ansuman,


On 28 October 2013 16:46, ansuman ansum...@gmail.com wrote:


 Why there is no response to this, Evaluation results after months? *How
 long are your two weeks?*
 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:India_Access_To_Knowledge/Work_plan_April_2013_-_June_2014/Learning_and_Evaluationhttp://bl-1.com/click/load/UGAKOFw5WmcCagZhV2c-b0231

 We have clarified it here [1]


 What about *Quarterly Community Survey* mentioned here,
 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/India_Access_To_Knowledge/Work_plan_April_2013_-_June_2014/Learning_and_Evaluationhttp://bl-1.com/click/load/XW0PPQdiBzoFbVA3VGU-b0231?
 Is there any plan to do this ever?


 Yes, we are working on the Quarterly report for the period July-Sept. 2013
and will be sharing soon.

However, in terms of participatory and continuous mode of
evaluationhttps://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/India_Access_To_Knowledge/Work_plan_April_2013_-_June_2014/Learning_and_Evaluation,
we foresee a challenge in actively involving the respective language
community members in quarterly evaluation cycles. Firstly in the five
language communities that we are focusing on, such an introspection
exercise was not done systematically before and secondly a mandatory
imposition may not be productive either for the Community or for CIS-A2K.
We do not want it to end-up becoming a task to be ticked against. Our
effort is to train the community to systematically introspect, which will
go a long way in strengthening the Indian language Wikipedias and the
associated communities. For instance, we have a beginning with Telugu
Wikimedia community. See this [2].


Best,
Vishnu

[1]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:India_Access_To_Knowledge/Work_plan_April_2013_-_June_2014/Learning_and_Evaluation
[2]
https://te.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%B0%B5%E0%B0%BF%E0%B0%95%E0%B1%80%E0%B0%AA%E0%B1%80%E0%B0%A1%E0%B0%BF%E0%B0%AF%E0%B0%BE:%E0%B0%89%E0%B0%97%E0%B0%BE%E0%B0%A6%E0%B0%BF_%E0%B0%AE%E0%B0%B9%E0%B1%8B%E0%B0%A4%E0%B1%8D%E0%B0%B8%E0%B0%B5%E0%B0%82-2013_%E0%B0%A4%E0%B0%B0%E0%B1%8D%E0%B0%B5%E0%B0%BE%E0%B0%A4_%E0%B0%A4%E0%B1%86%E0%B0%B5%E0%B0%BF%E0%B0%95%E0%B1%80_%E0%B0%AA%E0%B1%8D%E0%B0%B0%E0%B0%97%E0%B0%A4%E0%B0%BF
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimediaindia-l] Fwd: A2K, its lies and irresponsibilities

2013-11-20 Thread Nathan
I feel like there is some context missing from this thread To me it
looks like five replies to an e-mail from a few weeks ago that wasn't sent
to the list?
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Copyright infringement - The real elephant in the room

2013-11-20 Thread Marc A. Pelletier
On 11/20/2013 07:13 AM, The Cunctator wrote:
 Yes, let's keep on pushing for policies that drive away editors!

Let's be clear here: contributions that are copyright violations are not
desirable to begin with.  If someone is driven away because they cannot
cut and paste from random websites anymore, I'm not sure that this could
reasonably be taken to be a bad thing.

-- Marc


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Copyright infringement - The real elephant in the room

2013-11-20 Thread Michael Snow

On 11/20/2013 8:31 AM, Marc A. Pelletier wrote:

On 11/20/2013 07:13 AM, The Cunctator wrote:

Yes, let's keep on pushing for policies that drive away editors!

Let's be clear here: contributions that are copyright violations are not
desirable to begin with.  If someone is driven away because they cannot
cut and paste from random websites anymore, I'm not sure that this could
reasonably be taken to be a bad thing.
Not that I encourage us to be permissive about copyright infringement, 
but there are two potential aspects here. You've touched on the first, 
which is contributors who do the copying - if they are willing to 
change, that's fine, although I'm skeptical about the value of editors 
who don't know any better and certainly repeat offenders should be 
highly unwelcome. But the second aspect is the loss of tasks other 
editors may be able to participate in, if there's potential for 
overautomation of the review process and corresponding loss of human 
judgment (What needs to be removed and what could be fixed just by 
citing the source? How thorough a rewrite is necessary to avoid 
plagiarizing source text?). An essential part of collaboration is, after 
all, reviewing each other's work. From the terseness of the comment, it 
might be alluding to either aspect or both.


--Michael Snow

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Copyright infringement - The real elephant in the room

2013-11-20 Thread The Cunctator
There's also been discussion of automatically deleting content from
contributors contributor from their own writing.
On Nov 20, 2013 8:31 AM, Marc A. Pelletier m...@uberbox.org wrote:

 On 11/20/2013 07:13 AM, The Cunctator wrote:
  Yes, let's keep on pushing for policies that drive away editors!

 Let's be clear here: contributions that are copyright violations are not
 desirable to begin with.  If someone is driven away because they cannot
 cut and paste from random websites anymore, I'm not sure that this could
 reasonably be taken to be a bad thing.

 -- Marc


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Copyright infringement - The real elephant in the room

2013-11-20 Thread Marc A. Pelletier
On 11/20/2013 11:59 AM, Michael Snow wrote:
 An essential part of collaboration is, after all, reviewing each other's
 work. From the terseness of the comment, it might be alluding to either
 aspect or both.

That's actually an interesting question that has been lurking beneath
all the editing is going down nervousness.

How much of that 'editing' was, in fact, busy work made immaterial by
technical advantage (bots, extensions, abusefilter)?  The number of
antivandalism edits a /human/ has to do in a day has most certainly come
down a *lot* since c. 2006; this no doubt contributed to a large - now
diminishing - fraction of total edits.

It's not clear to me that the number of *productive* edits has been
going down all that much (if at all) in the past several years; the
proportion of edits that were tedious and repetitive clearly has.

Are you arguing that there is *value* in volunteers spending time on
work that could be automated?  Except for artificially driving up edit
counts, that is time (and effort) that would be better spent pretty much
anywhere else!

-- Marc


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[Wikimedia-l] Some sad news

2013-11-20 Thread Jake Orlowitz
User:Jackson Peebles is no longer with us, he passed away in late
October. Jackson was a Western Michigan University Honors student
studying behavioral science and biology. He worked as an ice hockey
referreee and volunteered with the Red Cross. His Wikipedia efforts
focused on counter-vandalism and adoption, greeting new users,
encouraging civility, and [obsessively] reviewing recent changes.

Jackson was a Teahouse host, an instructor in the Education Program,
and the lead on a Video Tutorials Project through the WMF. User:Go
Phightins! originaly adopted Jackson but he went on to run his own
adoption school and facilitated a Western Michigan University course
himself. Among his userboxes he said, This user is not a Wikipedia
administrator but would like to be one someday.

Jackson was born in 1992 in Kalamazoo, Michigan. He graduated Mattawan
High School and was Senior Class President there. At Western Michigan
University, he was a 2011 Medallion Scholar. He worked at the Waldo
Library at the reference desk and volunteered for the National
Alliance for Mental Illness. He was one of three students in the
nation invited to represent the US at the International Red Cross and
Red Crescent’s Global Youth Conference in Vienna in 2012.

Jackson had recently proposed a WMF Individual Engagment Grant called
Reimagining Wikipedia Mentorship. I think this project is incredibly
important and should be pursued, User:EpochFail wrote in an
endorsement. The grant scored highly and looked likely to be funded.
A very interesting concept...may become a 'keystone piece' in the new
editor onboarding process. wrote one IEG committee member. Another
wrote, Taking a 'Teahouse approach' in building sustained motivation
and preventing editor dropouts is a wonderful opportunity to develop a
true mentor-mentee support system that would increase the activity of
new contributors. Finally, Proposers are highly qualified and driven
mentors with a useful background in teaching new editors and
understanding the learning process.

He was excitedly planning a trip to Australia in the coming weeks.

On Wikipedia, Jackson earned barnstars in Mentorship, Random Acts of
Kindness and Resilience. Friends and teachers glowingly recalled his
sense of humor and his hard work ethic.

His last edit to our site was on October 21 2013, the day he died.
Jackson welcomed an i.p. editor to Wikipedia: Thank you for your
contributions, such as the one you made to Nikah mut‘ah. I hope you
like the place and decide to stay.

Please leave remembrances and condolences at
http://enwp.org/User_talk:Jackson_Peebes. We'll try and contact the
family and share your thoughts with them. You can read more
reflections on Jackson's amazing life there. Donations to the
Kalamazoo NAMI chapter would have made Jackson very happy and are the
family's wish.

--Ocaasi14:26, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some sad news

2013-11-20 Thread Philippe Beaudette
Corrected link:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jackson_Peebles


*Philippe Beaudette * \\  Director, Community Advocacy \\ Wikimedia
Foundation, Inc.
 T: 1-415-839-6885 x6643 |  phili...@wikimedia.org  |  :
@Philippewikihttps://twitter.com/Philippewiki


On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 9:24 AM, Jake Orlowitz jorlow...@gmail.com wrote:

 User:Jackson Peebles is no longer with us, he passed away in late
 October. Jackson was a Western Michigan University Honors student
 studying behavioral science and biology. He worked as an ice hockey
 referreee and volunteered with the Red Cross. His Wikipedia efforts
 focused on counter-vandalism and adoption, greeting new users,
 encouraging civility, and [obsessively] reviewing recent changes.

 Jackson was a Teahouse host, an instructor in the Education Program,
 and the lead on a Video Tutorials Project through the WMF. User:Go
 Phightins! originaly adopted Jackson but he went on to run his own
 adoption school and facilitated a Western Michigan University course
 himself. Among his userboxes he said, This user is not a Wikipedia
 administrator but would like to be one someday.

 Jackson was born in 1992 in Kalamazoo, Michigan. He graduated Mattawan
 High School and was Senior Class President there. At Western Michigan
 University, he was a 2011 Medallion Scholar. He worked at the Waldo
 Library at the reference desk and volunteered for the National
 Alliance for Mental Illness. He was one of three students in the
 nation invited to represent the US at the International Red Cross and
 Red Crescent’s Global Youth Conference in Vienna in 2012.

 Jackson had recently proposed a WMF Individual Engagment Grant called
 Reimagining Wikipedia Mentorship. I think this project is incredibly
 important and should be pursued, User:EpochFail wrote in an
 endorsement. The grant scored highly and looked likely to be funded.
 A very interesting concept...may become a 'keystone piece' in the new
 editor onboarding process. wrote one IEG committee member. Another
 wrote, Taking a 'Teahouse approach' in building sustained motivation
 and preventing editor dropouts is a wonderful opportunity to develop a
 true mentor-mentee support system that would increase the activity of
 new contributors. Finally, Proposers are highly qualified and driven
 mentors with a useful background in teaching new editors and
 understanding the learning process.

 He was excitedly planning a trip to Australia in the coming weeks.

 On Wikipedia, Jackson earned barnstars in Mentorship, Random Acts of
 Kindness and Resilience. Friends and teachers glowingly recalled his
 sense of humor and his hard work ethic.

 His last edit to our site was on October 21 2013, the day he died.
 Jackson welcomed an i.p. editor to Wikipedia: Thank you for your
 contributions, such as the one you made to Nikah mut‘ah. I hope you
 like the place and decide to stay.

 Please leave remembrances and condolences at
 http://enwp.org/User_talk:Jackson_Peebes. We'll try and contact the
 family and share your thoughts with them. You can read more
 reflections on Jackson's amazing life there. Donations to the
 Kalamazoo NAMI chapter would have made Jackson very happy and are the
 family's wish.

 --Ocaasi14:26, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some sad news

2013-11-20 Thread Amy Vossbrinck
Never let it be said that one person can't make a difference.  Clearly this
young man was all about reaching out to others and making an impact
everywhere he went.  The planet and many people on it benefited from his
kindness for the brief time he was here.

Thank you, Jackson for all you gave to make the word a better place.


On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 9:24 AM, Jake Orlowitz jorlow...@gmail.com wrote:

 User:Jackson Peebles is no longer with us, he passed away in late
 October. Jackson was a Western Michigan University Honors student
 studying behavioral science and biology. He worked as an ice hockey
 referreee and volunteered with the Red Cross. His Wikipedia efforts
 focused on counter-vandalism and adoption, greeting new users,
 encouraging civility, and [obsessively] reviewing recent changes.

 Jackson was a Teahouse host, an instructor in the Education Program,
 and the lead on a Video Tutorials Project through the WMF. User:Go
 Phightins! originaly adopted Jackson but he went on to run his own
 adoption school and facilitated a Western Michigan University course
 himself. Among his userboxes he said, This user is not a Wikipedia
 administrator but would like to be one someday.

 Jackson was born in 1992 in Kalamazoo, Michigan. He graduated Mattawan
 High School and was Senior Class President there. At Western Michigan
 University, he was a 2011 Medallion Scholar. He worked at the Waldo
 Library at the reference desk and volunteered for the National
 Alliance for Mental Illness. He was one of three students in the
 nation invited to represent the US at the International Red Cross and
 Red Crescent’s Global Youth Conference in Vienna in 2012.

 Jackson had recently proposed a WMF Individual Engagment Grant called
 Reimagining Wikipedia Mentorship. I think this project is incredibly
 important and should be pursued, User:EpochFail wrote in an
 endorsement. The grant scored highly and looked likely to be funded.
 A very interesting concept...may become a 'keystone piece' in the new
 editor onboarding process. wrote one IEG committee member. Another
 wrote, Taking a 'Teahouse approach' in building sustained motivation
 and preventing editor dropouts is a wonderful opportunity to develop a
 true mentor-mentee support system that would increase the activity of
 new contributors. Finally, Proposers are highly qualified and driven
 mentors with a useful background in teaching new editors and
 understanding the learning process.

 He was excitedly planning a trip to Australia in the coming weeks.

 On Wikipedia, Jackson earned barnstars in Mentorship, Random Acts of
 Kindness and Resilience. Friends and teachers glowingly recalled his
 sense of humor and his hard work ethic.

 His last edit to our site was on October 21 2013, the day he died.
 Jackson welcomed an i.p. editor to Wikipedia: Thank you for your
 contributions, such as the one you made to Nikah mut‘ah. I hope you
 like the place and decide to stay.

 Please leave remembrances and condolences at
 http://enwp.org/User_talk:Jackson_Peebes. We'll try and contact the
 family and share your thoughts with them. You can read more
 reflections on Jackson's amazing life there. Donations to the
 Kalamazoo NAMI chapter would have made Jackson very happy and are the
 family's wish.

 --Ocaasi14:26, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

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-- 
*Amy Vossbrinck*
*Executive Assistant to the*
*Chief of Finance and Administration*
*Wikimedia Foundation*
*149 New Montgomery Street*
*San Francisco, CA 94105*
*415.839.6885  ext 6628*
*avossbri...@wikimedia.org avossbri...@wikimedia.org*
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Copyright infringement - The real elephant in the room

2013-11-20 Thread Richard Symonds
Not quite: I would argue that anti-vandalism work is a gateway drug to
the rest of the project. Just a hunch, though.
On Nov 20, 2013 5:21 PM, Marc A. Pelletier m...@uberbox.org wrote:

 On 11/20/2013 11:59 AM, Michael Snow wrote:
  An essential part of collaboration is, after all, reviewing each other's
  work. From the terseness of the comment, it might be alluding to either
  aspect or both.

 That's actually an interesting question that has been lurking beneath
 all the editing is going down nervousness.

 How much of that 'editing' was, in fact, busy work made immaterial by
 technical advantage (bots, extensions, abusefilter)?  The number of
 antivandalism edits a /human/ has to do in a day has most certainly come
 down a *lot* since c. 2006; this no doubt contributed to a large - now
 diminishing - fraction of total edits.

 It's not clear to me that the number of *productive* edits has been
 going down all that much (if at all) in the past several years; the
 proportion of edits that were tedious and repetitive clearly has.

 Are you arguing that there is *value* in volunteers spending time on
 work that could be automated?  Except for artificially driving up edit
 counts, that is time (and effort) that would be better spent pretty much
 anywhere else!

 -- Marc


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Copyright infringement - The real elephant in the room

2013-11-20 Thread Michael Snow

On 11/20/2013 9:20 AM, Marc A. Pelletier wrote:

That's actually an interesting question that has been lurking beneath
all the editing is going down nervousness.

How much of that 'editing' was, in fact, busy work made immaterial by
technical advantage (bots, extensions, abusefilter)?  The number of
antivandalism edits a /human/ has to do in a day has most certainly come
down a *lot* since c. 2006; this no doubt contributed to a large - now
diminishing - fraction of total edits.

It's not clear to me that the number of *productive* edits has been
going down all that much (if at all) in the past several years; the
proportion of edits that were tedious and repetitive clearly has.

Are you arguing that there is *value* in volunteers spending time on
work that could be automated?  Except for artificially driving up edit
counts, that is time (and effort) that would be better spent pretty much
anywhere else!
A lot of work that gets automated is not necessarily difficult for 
humans, just time-consuming. But volunteer time is not a resource we get 
to allocate or control; the volunteers do. Simple tasks can help recruit 
or retain contributors--providing a way to ease people into 
participation, or a break to prevent burnout between tackling more 
challenging projects. And while that time and effort might appear more 
valuable if spent on other tasks, there's no guarantee that it in fact 
would be.


For tasks that most contributors find unpleasant (dealing with certain 
types of vandalism, perhaps), automation is clearly the way to go. But 
repetition does not necessarily equal tedium in all circumstances or for 
all people. Nor do we need to apply some business-type evaluation of 
what constitutes productive effort, at least in the context of 
volunteer work. If a task simply makes someone feel productive, their 
own evaluation is what matters, and it can help them feel more engaged 
and part of the community.


My general point is that opportunities for automation are best 
considered with our overall mission in mind, not just the speed or 
efficiency of a particular workflow. In certain situations, automation 
that creates more work rather than removing it (such as by identifying 
potential tasks and feeding them to editors) might be preferable. And 
some of our tools already use such an approach, which is a good thing.


--Michael Snow

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Copyright infringement - The real elephant in the room

2013-11-20 Thread Marc A. Pelletier
On 11/20/2013 01:06 PM, Richard Symonds wrote:
 Not quite: I would argue that anti-vandalism work is a gateway drug to
 the rest of the project. Just a hunch, though.

I'm pretty sure that typo correction fills pretty much the same niche,
though.

-- Marc


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Copyright infringement - The real elephant in the room

2013-11-20 Thread Marc A. Pelletier
On 11/20/2013 01:13 PM, Michael Snow wrote:
 My general point is that opportunities for automation are best
 considered with our overall mission in mind, not just the speed or
 efficiency of a particular workflow. In certain situations, automation
 that creates more work rather than removing it (such as by identifying
 potential tasks and feeding them to editors) might be preferable. And
 some of our tools already use such an approach, which is a good thing.

That's an interesting approach, but I'm not sure how constructive it is
in the long run.  I suppose it depends greatly on whether one considers
our mission to be 'building an encyclopedia to share in the sum[...]' or
'having an encyclopedia to share in the sum[...]' (I'm not sure if I
make the subtle distinction here clear).

Perhaps another way of putting it is to ask whether the
encyclopedia-building community is the means or the ends.  To my eyes,
having more contributors is not valuable unless it has better
encyclopedia as a direct consequence.

-- Marc


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some sad news

2013-11-20 Thread Steve Zhang
The loss of someone always hits us hard; the loss of one of us even more
so. I was lucky enough to work with Jackson, albeit briefly.  He will be
very sorely missed and I wish his family all the best during these tough
times.
On 21/11/2013 4:33 AM, Amy Vossbrinck avossbri...@wikimedia.org wrote:

 Never let it be said that one person can't make a difference.  Clearly this
 young man was all about reaching out to others and making an impact
 everywhere he went.  The planet and many people on it benefited from his
 kindness for the brief time he was here.

 Thank you, Jackson for all you gave to make the word a better place.


 On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 9:24 AM, Jake Orlowitz jorlow...@gmail.com
 wrote:

  User:Jackson Peebles is no longer with us, he passed away in late
  October. Jackson was a Western Michigan University Honors student
  studying behavioral science and biology. He worked as an ice hockey
  referreee and volunteered with the Red Cross. His Wikipedia efforts
  focused on counter-vandalism and adoption, greeting new users,
  encouraging civility, and [obsessively] reviewing recent changes.
 
  Jackson was a Teahouse host, an instructor in the Education Program,
  and the lead on a Video Tutorials Project through the WMF. User:Go
  Phightins! originaly adopted Jackson but he went on to run his own
  adoption school and facilitated a Western Michigan University course
  himself. Among his userboxes he said, This user is not a Wikipedia
  administrator but would like to be one someday.
 
  Jackson was born in 1992 in Kalamazoo, Michigan. He graduated Mattawan
  High School and was Senior Class President there. At Western Michigan
  University, he was a 2011 Medallion Scholar. He worked at the Waldo
  Library at the reference desk and volunteered for the National
  Alliance for Mental Illness. He was one of three students in the
  nation invited to represent the US at the International Red Cross and
  Red Crescent’s Global Youth Conference in Vienna in 2012.
 
  Jackson had recently proposed a WMF Individual Engagment Grant called
  Reimagining Wikipedia Mentorship. I think this project is incredibly
  important and should be pursued, User:EpochFail wrote in an
  endorsement. The grant scored highly and looked likely to be funded.
  A very interesting concept...may become a 'keystone piece' in the new
  editor onboarding process. wrote one IEG committee member. Another
  wrote, Taking a 'Teahouse approach' in building sustained motivation
  and preventing editor dropouts is a wonderful opportunity to develop a
  true mentor-mentee support system that would increase the activity of
  new contributors. Finally, Proposers are highly qualified and driven
  mentors with a useful background in teaching new editors and
  understanding the learning process.
 
  He was excitedly planning a trip to Australia in the coming weeks.
 
  On Wikipedia, Jackson earned barnstars in Mentorship, Random Acts of
  Kindness and Resilience. Friends and teachers glowingly recalled his
  sense of humor and his hard work ethic.
 
  His last edit to our site was on October 21 2013, the day he died.
  Jackson welcomed an i.p. editor to Wikipedia: Thank you for your
  contributions, such as the one you made to Nikah mut‘ah. I hope you
  like the place and decide to stay.
 
  Please leave remembrances and condolences at
  http://enwp.org/User_talk:Jackson_Peebes. We'll try and contact the
  family and share your thoughts with them. You can read more
  reflections on Jackson's amazing life there. Donations to the
  Kalamazoo NAMI chapter would have made Jackson very happy and are the
  family's wish.
 
  --Ocaasi14:26, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Copyright infringement - The real elephant in the room

2013-11-20 Thread Michael Snow

On 11/20/2013 10:52 AM, Marc A. Pelletier wrote:

Perhaps another way of putting it is to ask whether the
encyclopedia-building community is the means or the ends.  To my eyes,
having more contributors is not valuable unless it has better
encyclopedia as a direct consequence.
I believe the mission is sufficiently large in scope that having more 
people involved is fundamentally desirable in general. Although to 
circle back to an earlier point in the discussion, that doesn't require 
that we accept involvement that is counterproductive. Maintaining our 
standards is a way of acknowledging that the number of people involved 
is not itself the end goal.


--Michael Snow

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] wikimediafoundation.org coup: six months later

2013-11-20 Thread Samuel Klein
On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 3:03 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.comwrote:


 maybe – as suggested by Luis in a copyright-related discussion[2] – they
 could make some interns assess their content (what can become public, what
 needs to stay private to the same group of people, what can be shared on
 Internal) and then start consolidating stuff. Or even better, just merge
 them all to Internal, moving each to its own namespace with WMDE's Lockdown
 extension as interim solution; and move stuff there


This would be a fine use for Internal.   SJ
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[Wikimedia-l] September 11 wiki

2013-11-20 Thread Tim Starling
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Sep11wiki

I think it's disrespectful to solicit contributions towards a memorial
website, and then to fail to maintain that memorial website in a
searchable format.

Today, searching the web for phrases in contributed memorial pages
brings up only ancient, presumably unmaintained Wikipedia mirrors,
such as these:

http://encyclopedia.kids.net.au/page/da/Daniel_Brandhorst
http://www.knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclopedia/Daniel_Brandhorst/

In time, those will disappear from the web, as all other copies have
done. Thus, relatives of the deceased will have no way to discover
that these pages ever existed.

In 2007, the September 11 wiki was moved to a non-Wikimedia site,
evidently hosted by an individual without the capacity to preserve
that content for posterity. It was offline after only 3 years.

The data is still on our servers. I propose bringing the wiki back up,
in read only mode, and leaving it like that either until such time as
there is interest from a non-profit or government organisation in
taking over the responsibility of indefinite hosting. It would only
take an hour or so of ops work. It could stay like that for decades
without needing any further maintenance.

-- Tim Starling


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] September 11 wiki

2013-11-20 Thread Nathan
I think it would be better to reformulate it into book format and make it
available as an e-book, for free download either directly from Wikimedia or
other outlets like iTunes or Amazon. That would be searchable, and I don't
know that hosting it in wiki form provides any benefits. Certainly as a
wiki it will never be rescued from permanent obscurity.


On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 7:09 PM, Tim Starling tstarl...@wikimedia.orgwrote:

 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Sep11wiki

 I think it's disrespectful to solicit contributions towards a memorial
 website, and then to fail to maintain that memorial website in a
 searchable format.

 Today, searching the web for phrases in contributed memorial pages
 brings up only ancient, presumably unmaintained Wikipedia mirrors,
 such as these:

 http://encyclopedia.kids.net.au/page/da/Daniel_Brandhorst
 http://www.knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclopedia/Daniel_Brandhorst/

 In time, those will disappear from the web, as all other copies have
 done. Thus, relatives of the deceased will have no way to discover
 that these pages ever existed.

 In 2007, the September 11 wiki was moved to a non-Wikimedia site,
 evidently hosted by an individual without the capacity to preserve
 that content for posterity. It was offline after only 3 years.

 The data is still on our servers. I propose bringing the wiki back up,
 in read only mode, and leaving it like that either until such time as
 there is interest from a non-profit or government organisation in
 taking over the responsibility of indefinite hosting. It would only
 take an hour or so of ops work. It could stay like that for decades
 without needing any further maintenance.

 -- Tim Starling


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] September 11 wiki

2013-11-20 Thread MZMcBride
Tim Starling wrote:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Sep11wiki

I think it's disrespectful to solicit contributions towards a memorial
website, and then to fail to maintain that memorial website in a
searchable format.

I think there's general agreement that setting up this wiki was a mistake.
This isn't said out of callousness or indifference, it's just the
historical reality. Wikipedia was only eight months old when these attacks
took place. No subsequent major world event (e.g., the 2004 Indian Ocean
earthquake and tsunami) has had its own Wikimedia memorial wiki
established and it's very unlikely that we would ever set up another.

The data is still on our servers. I propose bringing the wiki back up,
in read only mode, and leaving it like that either until such time as
there is interest from a non-profit or government organisation in
taking over the responsibility of indefinite hosting.

We provide a dump of the September 11 wiki's contents here:
http://dumps.wikimedia.org/backups-of-old-wikis.html. Memorial sites,
while depressing and touching, are completely outside the scope of
Wikimedia's mission. I don't believe Wikimedia has an obligation, moral
or otherwise, to host this content in an Internet searchable format in
perpetuity. Anyone, including non-profits and government organizations,
can use the dump we provide as they see fit. Deciding to host this site
again would be a mistake and one that we happen to have already made once.

MZMcBride



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] September 11 wiki

2013-11-20 Thread Erik Moeller
On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 4:38 PM, MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com wrote:
 We provide a dump of the September 11 wiki's contents here:
 http://dumps.wikimedia.org/backups-of-old-wikis.html. Memorial sites,
 while depressing and touching, are completely outside the scope of
 Wikimedia's mission. I don't believe Wikimedia has an obligation, moral
 or otherwise, to host this content in an Internet searchable format in
 perpetuity. Anyone, including non-profits and government organizations,
 can use the dump we provide as they see fit. Deciding to host this site
 again would be a mistake and one that we happen to have already made once.

+1. sep11.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foo already redirects to the IA copy, as
well. Anything else is a distraction and a waste of time, sorry.

Erik
-- 
Erik Möller
VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] September 11 wiki

2013-11-20 Thread Matthew Flaschen

On 11/20/2013 07:09 PM, Tim Starling wrote:

In 2007, the September 11 wiki was moved to a non-Wikimedia site,
evidently hosted by an individual without the capacity to preserve
that content for posterity. It was offline after only 3 years.


It is still accessible at the Internet Archive's Wayback Machine 
(http://wayback.archive.org/web/20060111221201/http://sep11.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page) 
(if I try a later year, it seems to redirect to sep11memories.org).


Considering it will not be opened for editing again, that and the dumps 
should be enough.


Matt Flaschen


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] September 11 wiki

2013-11-20 Thread Thehelpfulone

 On 21 Nov 2013, at 00:52, Erik Moeller e...@wikimedia.org wrote:
 
 +1. sep11.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foo already redirects to the IA copy, as
 well. Anything else is a distraction and a waste of time, sorry.

Perhaps it would be worth fixing the mobile redirect for the wiki, currently it 
doesn't seem to work/exist?

--
Thehelpfulone
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Thehelpfulone
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] September 11 wiki

2013-11-20 Thread Tim Starling
On 21/11/13 11:38, MZMcBride wrote:
 Tim Starling wrote:
 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Sep11wiki

 I think it's disrespectful to solicit contributions towards a memorial
 website, and then to fail to maintain that memorial website in a
 searchable format.
 
 I think there's general agreement that setting up this wiki was a mistake.
 This isn't said out of callousness or indifference, it's just the
 historical reality. Wikipedia was only eight months old when these attacks
 took place. No subsequent major world event (e.g., the 2004 Indian Ocean
 earthquake and tsunami) has had its own Wikimedia memorial wiki
 established and it's very unlikely that we would ever set up another.

Sure, but you can't undo it, once it is done. Maybe it was stupid to
take on this responsibility, but deleting the site is not an ethical
way to rectify the mistake.

-- Tim Starling



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] September 11 wiki

2013-11-20 Thread Erik Moeller
On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 7:23 PM, Tim Starling tstarl...@wikimedia.org wrote:
 Sure, but you can't undo it, once it is done. Maybe it was stupid to
 take on this responsibility, but deleting the site is not an ethical
 way to rectify the mistake.

If you _really really_ want to take this on, please consider just
creating a static HTML dump without the MediaWiki skin in a
subdirectory of dumps.wm.o (mebbe
http://dumps.wikimedia.org/other/static_html_dumps/ ), with robots.txt
rules to allow for indexing, rather than returning it to its previous
undead status.
-- 
Erik Möller
VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] September 11 wiki

2013-11-20 Thread Yann Forget
Hello,

2013/11/21 Nathan nawr...@gmail.com

 I think it would be better to reformulate it into book format and make it
 available as an e-book, for free download either directly from Wikimedia or
 other outlets like iTunes or Amazon. That would be searchable, and I don't
 know that hosting it in wiki form provides any benefits. Certainly as a
 wiki it will never be rescued from permanent obscurity.


I think that would be the best. I am sure many people could easily offer a
copy that way.

Regards,

Yann
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] September 11 wiki

2013-11-20 Thread Victor Grigas
Tim,

You could start an indiegogo or a kickstarter campaign for this. I'm sure
you'd find funding and volunteers to keep it online. There is also a museum
on the ground zero site that you may want to get in touch with about such
an effort : http://www.911memorial.org/  They may be interested in telling
the story of the Sept11wiki, and possibly keeping it online.

When WP was new and still finding it's character, such efforts like what
you propose were not outside WP's potential scope. I just don't feel that
WP is the place for it currently or in the future.




On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 9:55 PM, Yann Forget yan...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hello,

 2013/11/21 Nathan nawr...@gmail.com

  I think it would be better to reformulate it into book format and make it
  available as an e-book, for free download either directly from Wikimedia
 or
  other outlets like iTunes or Amazon. That would be searchable, and I
 don't
  know that hosting it in wiki form provides any benefits. Certainly as a
  wiki it will never be rescued from permanent obscurity.
 

 I think that would be the best. I am sure many people could easily offer a
 copy that way.

 Regards,

 Yann
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Wikimedia Foundation
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some sad news

2013-11-20 Thread Keegan Peterzell
Thank you for sharing this, Ocaasi. Sad, sad news indeed.

~ Keegan

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Keegan
On Nov 20, 2013 1:09 PM, Steve Zhang cro0...@gmail.com wrote:

 The loss of someone always hits us hard; the loss of one of us even more
 so. I was lucky enough to work with Jackson, albeit briefly.  He will be
 very sorely missed and I wish his family all the best during these tough
 times.
 On 21/11/2013 4:33 AM, Amy Vossbrinck avossbri...@wikimedia.org wrote:

  Never let it be said that one person can't make a difference.  Clearly
 this
  young man was all about reaching out to others and making an impact
  everywhere he went.  The planet and many people on it benefited from his
  kindness for the brief time he was here.
 
  Thank you, Jackson for all you gave to make the word a better place.
 
 
  On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 9:24 AM, Jake Orlowitz jorlow...@gmail.com
  wrote:
 
   User:Jackson Peebles is no longer with us, he passed away in late
   October. Jackson was a Western Michigan University Honors student
   studying behavioral science and biology. He worked as an ice hockey
   referreee and volunteered with the Red Cross. His Wikipedia efforts
   focused on counter-vandalism and adoption, greeting new users,
   encouraging civility, and [obsessively] reviewing recent changes.
  
   Jackson was a Teahouse host, an instructor in the Education Program,
   and the lead on a Video Tutorials Project through the WMF. User:Go
   Phightins! originaly adopted Jackson but he went on to run his own
   adoption school and facilitated a Western Michigan University course
   himself. Among his userboxes he said, This user is not a Wikipedia
   administrator but would like to be one someday.
  
   Jackson was born in 1992 in Kalamazoo, Michigan. He graduated Mattawan
   High School and was Senior Class President there. At Western Michigan
   University, he was a 2011 Medallion Scholar. He worked at the Waldo
   Library at the reference desk and volunteered for the National
   Alliance for Mental Illness. He was one of three students in the
   nation invited to represent the US at the International Red Cross and
   Red Crescent’s Global Youth Conference in Vienna in 2012.
  
   Jackson had recently proposed a WMF Individual Engagment Grant called
   Reimagining Wikipedia Mentorship. I think this project is incredibly
   important and should be pursued, User:EpochFail wrote in an
   endorsement. The grant scored highly and looked likely to be funded.
   A very interesting concept...may become a 'keystone piece' in the new
   editor onboarding process. wrote one IEG committee member. Another
   wrote, Taking a 'Teahouse approach' in building sustained motivation
   and preventing editor dropouts is a wonderful opportunity to develop a
   true mentor-mentee support system that would increase the activity of
   new contributors. Finally, Proposers are highly qualified and driven
   mentors with a useful background in teaching new editors and
   understanding the learning process.
  
   He was excitedly planning a trip to Australia in the coming weeks.
  
   On Wikipedia, Jackson earned barnstars in Mentorship, Random Acts of
   Kindness and Resilience. Friends and teachers glowingly recalled his
   sense of humor and his hard work ethic.
  
   His last edit to our site was on October 21 2013, the day he died.
   Jackson welcomed an i.p. editor to Wikipedia: Thank you for your
   contributions, such as the one you made to Nikah mut‘ah. I hope you
   like the place and decide to stay.
  
   Please leave remembrances and condolences at
   http://enwp.org/User_talk:Jackson_Peebes. We'll try and contact the
   family and share your thoughts with them. You can read more
   reflections on Jackson's amazing life there. Donations to the
   Kalamazoo NAMI chapter would have made Jackson very happy and are the
   family's wish.
  
   --Ocaasi14:26, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
  
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[Wikimedia-l] Ongoing searches for Wikimedia Foundation Executive Director and VP of Engineering

2013-11-20 Thread MZMcBride
Hi.

Is there a status update about the search for a new Executive Director? I
checked https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/ED_Transition_Team.

Relatedly, there's now a position opening for a VP of Engineering
(http://hire.jobvite.com/Jobvite/Job.aspx?j=ods8Xfwu).

Big changes ahead, it seems.

MZMcBride



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Ongoing searches for Wikimedia Foundation Executive Director and VP of Engineering

2013-11-20 Thread Erik Moeller
On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 10:23 PM, MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com wrote:
 Relatedly, there's now a position opening for a VP of Engineering
 (http://hire.jobvite.com/Jobvite/Job.aspx?j=ods8Xfwu).

Blog post with background:
https://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/11/20/wikimedia-foundation-is-looking-for-a-vice-president-of-engineering/


-- 
Erik Möller
VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] September 11 wiki

2013-11-20 Thread MZMcBride
Tim Starling wrote:
On 21/11/13 11:38, MZMcBride wrote:
 
No subsequent major world event (e.g., the 2004 Indian Ocean
 earthquake and tsunami) has had its own Wikimedia memorial wiki
 established and it's very unlikely that we would ever set up another.

Sure, but you can't undo it, once it is done. Maybe it was stupid to
take on this responsibility, but deleting the site is not an ethical
way to rectify the mistake.

Your comments reminded me of one of my favorite quotes (immortalized as a
quip in our Bugzilla installation at https://bugs.wikimedia.org/):
creating a wiki is like creating a baby: yes you should have a good
reason to create one, but if you don't for whatever reason, you should
have an _extra_ good reason for killing one. :-)

MZMcBride



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] September 11 wiki

2013-11-20 Thread Srikanth Ramakrishnan
Personally I think it is unfair for one incident ti have a wiki and not
others. It will someday open a huge Pandora's box.

Sent from the touchscreen equivalent of a Nokia 1100, pardon the sender.
--
Srikanth Ramakrishnan,
Treasurer.
On Nov 21, 2013 6:08 AM, MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com wrote:

 Tim Starling wrote:
 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Sep11wiki
 
 I think it's disrespectful to solicit contributions towards a memorial
 website, and then to fail to maintain that memorial website in a
 searchable format.

 I think there's general agreement that setting up this wiki was a mistake.
 This isn't said out of callousness or indifference, it's just the
 historical reality. Wikipedia was only eight months old when these attacks
 took place. No subsequent major world event (e.g., the 2004 Indian Ocean
 earthquake and tsunami) has had its own Wikimedia memorial wiki
 established and it's very unlikely that we would ever set up another.

 The data is still on our servers. I propose bringing the wiki back up,
 in read only mode, and leaving it like that either until such time as
 there is interest from a non-profit or government organisation in
 taking over the responsibility of indefinite hosting.

 We provide a dump of the September 11 wiki's contents here:
 http://dumps.wikimedia.org/backups-of-old-wikis.html. Memorial sites,
 while depressing and touching, are completely outside the scope of
 Wikimedia's mission. I don't believe Wikimedia has an obligation, moral
 or otherwise, to host this content in an Internet searchable format in
 perpetuity. Anyone, including non-profits and government organizations,
 can use the dump we provide as they see fit. Deciding to host this site
 again would be a mistake and one that we happen to have already made once.

 MZMcBride



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some sad news

2013-11-20 Thread Samuel Klein
Thank you so much for posting this Jake.  I will dearly miss Jackson and
his flow of good spirit and ideas.

SJ


On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 12:24 PM, Jake Orlowitz jorlow...@gmail.com wrote:

 User:Jackson Peebles is no longer with us, he passed away in late
 October. Jackson was a Western Michigan University Honors student
 studying behavioral science and biology. He worked as an ice hockey
 referreee and volunteered with the Red Cross. His Wikipedia efforts
 focused on counter-vandalism and adoption, greeting new users,
 encouraging civility, and [obsessively] reviewing recent changes.

 Jackson was a Teahouse host, an instructor in the Education Program,
 and the lead on a Video Tutorials Project through the WMF. User:Go
 Phightins! originaly adopted Jackson but he went on to run his own
 adoption school and facilitated a Western Michigan University course
 himself. Among his userboxes he said, This user is not a Wikipedia
 administrator but would like to be one someday.

 Jackson was born in 1992 in Kalamazoo, Michigan. He graduated Mattawan
 High School and was Senior Class President there. At Western Michigan
 University, he was a 2011 Medallion Scholar. He worked at the Waldo
 Library at the reference desk and volunteered for the National
 Alliance for Mental Illness. He was one of three students in the
 nation invited to represent the US at the International Red Cross and
 Red Crescent’s Global Youth Conference in Vienna in 2012.

 Jackson had recently proposed a WMF Individual Engagment Grant called
 Reimagining Wikipedia Mentorship. I think this project is incredibly
 important and should be pursued, User:EpochFail wrote in an
 endorsement. The grant scored highly and looked likely to be funded.
 A very interesting concept...may become a 'keystone piece' in the new
 editor onboarding process. wrote one IEG committee member. Another
 wrote, Taking a 'Teahouse approach' in building sustained motivation
 and preventing editor dropouts is a wonderful opportunity to develop a
 true mentor-mentee support system that would increase the activity of
 new contributors. Finally, Proposers are highly qualified and driven
 mentors with a useful background in teaching new editors and
 understanding the learning process.

 He was excitedly planning a trip to Australia in the coming weeks.

 On Wikipedia, Jackson earned barnstars in Mentorship, Random Acts of
 Kindness and Resilience. Friends and teachers glowingly recalled his
 sense of humor and his hard work ethic.

 His last edit to our site was on October 21 2013, the day he died.
 Jackson welcomed an i.p. editor to Wikipedia: Thank you for your
 contributions, such as the one you made to Nikah mut‘ah. I hope you
 like the place and decide to stay.

 Please leave remembrances and condolences at
 http://enwp.org/User_talk:Jackson_Peebes. We'll try and contact the
 family and share your thoughts with them. You can read more
 reflections on Jackson's amazing life there. Donations to the
 Kalamazoo NAMI chapter would have made Jackson very happy and are the
 family's wish.

 --Ocaasi14:26, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

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-- 
Samuel Klein  @metasj   w:user:sj  +1 617 529 4266
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