Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikipedia-Mania in the New York Times

2014-01-10 Thread Federico Leva (Nemo)
MZMcBride, 10/01/2014 08:26: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/09/fashion/Wikipedia-Judith-Newman.html This piece by Judith Newman has some amusing snippets. :-) Very funny and looks like her sockpuppet public call to arms has worked. :) At its root however it's just pokémon test all over the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikitech-l] A Multimedia Vision for 2016

2014-01-10 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, Fabrice, I very much love the two stories described in the vision. It describes not only a functionality that is technical, it also describes how our community may interact. That is great. What I missed are the consequences of the planned integration of Commons with Wikidata. I blogged about

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid editing v. paid advocacy (editing)

2014-01-10 Thread Christophe Henner
Hi everyone, I'll try to elaborate on this topic :) First of all, in 2011 in Haifa I did a first talk about companies and Wikipedia. I did that because I was making a study (emphasis on the as I'm not keen to say it's a study and more of a detailed observation) of the state of the articles of

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid editing v. paid advocacy (editing)

2014-01-10 Thread Ting Chen
Hello dear all, I would like to be more cautious about the difference between the good paid editing and the bad paid advocacy. There are two reasons why I don't want to separate in this way. First of there is no clear boundary between the good and bad like black and white. There is a

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid editing v. paid advocacy (editing)

2014-01-10 Thread Anders Wennersten
Thanks Christophe for your long ,but very good thoughts and experiences from paid editing from pro-profit organization. I fully support your approach and hope we can put energy, instead of just being against, to elaborate on how to best handle the reality that pro-profit organization do paid

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid editing v. paid advocacy (editing)

2014-01-10 Thread Erlend Bjørtvedt
A museum is a commercial entity. They live from ticket incomes from customers. Universities live from tuition fees from students who freely choose which university is most attractive to them. The difference between these institutions editing, and a private railway company when it comes to coi

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid editing v. paid advocacy (editing)

2014-01-10 Thread Erlend Bjørtvedt
But even they sell souvenires and books.. Den 10. jan. 2014 16:05 skrev Katie Chan k...@ktchan.info følgende: On 10/01/2014 15:01, Erlend Bjørtvedt wrote: A museum is a commercial entity. They live from ticket incomes from customers. Not all museum charges people entry... ;) --

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid editing v. paid advocacy (editing)

2014-01-10 Thread Brad Jorsch (Anomie)
(Note these are my own personal views and in no way reflect any views of the WMF or anyone else) On Fri, Jan 10, 2014 at 7:34 AM, Christophe Henner christophe.hen...@gmail.com wrote: Now, the question about paid advocacy. Again, one of our core principle is NPOV. We don't want people to push

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid editing v. paid advocacy (editing)

2014-01-10 Thread Andrew Lih
Ting and Christophe, Glad to hear we are moving forward on finding more sophisticated ways of thinking about paid editing. At least for the English Wikipedians I've talked to, many are pleasantly surprised that the European editions are able to find a cooperative relationship with paid, corporate

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid editing v. paid advocacy (editing)

2014-01-10 Thread Peter Gervai
On Fri, Jan 10, 2014 at 1:40 PM, Ting Chen wing.phil...@gmx.de wrote: Wikipedia articles. So they pay 10.000 Dollar to Bryce DeWitt (I know, he is dead, I just don't want to name any living people) to write about field theory, or John Wheeler to write about general relativity, and so on and so

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid editing v. paid advocacy (editing)

2014-01-10 Thread Christophe Henner
A track about that \o/ It took me years to have 2 sessions and they were the only 2 tackling that issue last year :) -- Christophe On 10 January 2014 16:17, Andrew Lih andrew@gmail.com wrote: Ting and Christophe, Glad to hear we are moving forward on finding more sophisticated ways of

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid editing v. paid advocacy (editing)

2014-01-10 Thread Lionel Allorge
Hi, I agree it's an important distinction. I personally think it could be worthwhile to think about a separate non-profit organization which receives payments and manages contracts to systematically expand Wikipedia coverage, with payment entirely or largely decoupled from specific articles

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid editing v. paid advocacy (editing)

2014-01-10 Thread Arne Klempert
On Fri, Jan 10, 2014 at 4:13 PM, Brad Jorsch (Anomie) bjor...@wikimedia.org wrote: On the other hand, a paid advocate may perhaps be more concerning from a community standpoint because it's likely that the paid advocate is going to have more time and resources to devote to inserting POV content

[Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Wikimedia Argentina report: December 2013

2014-01-10 Thread Osmar Valdebenito
Dear Wikimedians, Here is the monthly report of Wikimedia Argentina for December 2013. You can read the full report (in Spanish and English) here: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Argentina/Reportes/2013-12 Also, the full reports of past months are available at

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikitech-l] A Multimedia Vision for 2016

2014-01-10 Thread Keegan Peterzell
On Fri, Jan 10, 2014 at 2:33 AM, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.comwrote: Hoi, Fabrice, I very much love the two stories described in the vision. It describes not only a functionality that is technical, it also describes how our community may interact. That is great. What I missed

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid editing v. paid advocacy (editing)

2014-01-10 Thread Federico Leva (Nemo)
Arne Klempert, 10/01/2014 17:51: I've heard that before from Wikipedians. However, it does not match with what communication professionals keep telling me. Even larger companies with solid communication departments are usually not in a place to spend enough ressources to correct their articles

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-10 Thread Ryan Kaldari
These are two reason we don't have Thanks for anonymous editors: 1. Anonymous editors don't get notifications 2. Multiple editors often share the same IP address Problem #2 isn't as prominent as it use to be, but there are still many large companies and schools that connect to the internet through

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid editing v. paid advocacy (editing)

2014-01-10 Thread Anders Wennersten
Martijn Hoekstra skrev 2014-01-10 20:12: I very much agree with this. Currently we just don't have the manpower to explain to 'the corporate world' Who do you refer to when you talk of we. I it a group of people or a language community. You are certainly not laking for all communities, as

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid editing v. paid advocacy (editing)

2014-01-10 Thread Michel Vuijlsteke
On 10 January 2014 20:12, Martijn Hoekstra martijnhoeks...@gmail.comwrote: I very much agree with this. Currently we just don't have the manpower to explain to 'the corporate world' in an understanding and clear fashion that what they are trying to do is *all wrong*, and what it is they *can*

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-10 Thread Isarra Yos
On 10/01/14 19:21, Ryan Kaldari wrote: These are two reason we don't have Thanks for anonymous editors: 1. Anonymous editors don't get notifications 2. Multiple editors often share the same IP address Problem #2 isn't as prominent as it use to be, but there are still many large companies and

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-10 Thread Oliver Keyes
For 1: because it'd be impossible to accurately associate notifications with the person, I assume. On 10 January 2014 12:11, Isarra Yos zhoris...@gmail.com wrote: On 10/01/14 19:21, Ryan Kaldari wrote: These are two reason we don't have Thanks for anonymous editors: 1. Anonymous editors

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-10 Thread Jasper Deng
I imagine that once IPv6 is widely in use, this problem will go away and we'll be able to turn on all notifications (including Thanks) for anonymous editors. Not completely correct when it comes to public computers and mobile IPs. On Fri, Jan 10, 2014 at 12:28 PM, Oliver Keyes

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-10 Thread MF-Warburg
On that occasion, do IPs still receive information about messages on their talk page? (Since the orange bar was abolished and they now go through echo notifications all well) Am 10.01.2014 21:29 schrieb Oliver Keyes oke...@wikimedia.org: For 1: because it'd be impossible to accurately associate

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid editing v. paid advocacy (editing)

2014-01-10 Thread Ting Chen
Hello Peter, I see the following two possibilities: Either the paid editing brings a higher quality and thus by that quality imposes itself as an authority and thus discourage further unqualified editing Or the paid editing does not bring a higher quality, then an unpaid volunteer editor

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid editing v. paid advocacy (editing)

2014-01-10 Thread Ting Chen
Hello Peter, I see the following two possibilities: Either the paid editing brings a higher quality and thus by that quality imposes itself as an authority and thus discourage further unqualified editing Or the paid editing does not bring a higher quality, then an unpaid volunteer editor

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid editing v. paid advocacy (editing)

2014-01-10 Thread Andreas Kolbe
Christophe's comment about Wikipedia's company articles not being very complete reminded me of a fun infographic: http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5474/11871822903_714f36a83e_h.jpg There is a strange, systemic hostility towards business at work in the English Wikipedia. Combined with a love for pop

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-10 Thread Sam Klein
I would very much enjoy notifications as an IP for IPs. We can make a few carve-outs: - major hubs (schools, businesses, wifi providers with thousands of users) can be excluded. The message/framing to IPs would be slightly different than that for logged-in users: since we can't be sure it's

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-10 Thread Nathan
I think we should just thank everyone, on at least a yearly basis, with a thank you drive similar to what we do for fundraising. It doesn't need to be for a specific edit or tied to any one IP. After the fundraiser hits the goal we usually run it a little with a thank you banner, and if we did

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-10 Thread David Gerard
On 10 January 2014 20:28, Oliver Keyes oke...@wikimedia.org wrote: For 1: because it'd be impossible to accurately associate notifications with the person, I assume. Apparently that's the reason. However, being able to thank IP contributors for their contribution would be FANTASTIC. Saying

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid editing v. paid advocacy (editing)

2014-01-10 Thread Andreas Kolbe
Quite. Museums' self-interest in employing a Wikipedian-in-Residence is often quite evident from the way the position is described (raise our profile etc.) And what about, say, the Henry Ford Museum? Or the Volkswagen museum? Is that not knowledge? Is it evil, because it's part of a business?

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid editing v. paid advocacy (editing)

2014-01-10 Thread Andreas Kolbe
On Fri, Jan 10, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Brad Jorsch (Anomie) bjor...@wikimedia.org wrote: (Note these are my own personal views and in no way reflect any views of the WMF or anyone else) On Fri, Jan 10, 2014 at 7:34 AM, Christophe Henner christophe.hen...@gmail.com wrote: Now, the question

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid editing v. paid advocacy (editing)

2014-01-10 Thread Andreas Kolbe
On Fri, Jan 10, 2014 at 3:17 PM, Andrew Lih andrew@gmail.com wrote: Ting and Christophe, Glad to hear we are moving forward on finding more sophisticated ways of thinking about paid editing. At least for the English Wikipedians I've talked to, many are pleasantly surprised that the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-10 Thread Kevin Rutherford
The downside of this is when we inevitably start thanking vandals by accident. Kevin Rutherford Sent from my iPhone On Jan 10, 2014, at 4:03 PM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: On 10 January 2014 20:28, Oliver Keyes oke...@wikimedia.org wrote: For 1: because it'd be impossible to

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-10 Thread David Gerard
Yeah. It shouldn't be like welcome messages, it should be specifically for thanking for good edits. But this is a cultural issue, not a software issue. On 10 January 2014 21:30, Kevin Rutherford ktr...@hotmail.com wrote: The downside of this is when we inevitably start thanking vandals by

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thanking anonymous users

2014-01-10 Thread Federico Leva (Nemo)
David Gerard, 10/01/2014 22:02: However, being able to thank IP contributors for their contribution would be FANTASTIC. Saying thank you to casual drive-by contributors would give them quite a buzz, I'd think. You already can, even on the unwelcoming ;) en.wiki and de.wiki: talk pages have

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid editing v. paid advocacy (editing)

2014-01-10 Thread geni
On 10 January 2014 21:06, Andreas Kolbe jayen...@gmail.com wrote: Quite. Museums' self-interest in employing a Wikipedian-in-Residence is often quite evident from the way the position is described (raise our profile etc.) And what about, say, the Henry Ford Museum? Or the Volkswagen museum?

[Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] The Signpost -- Volume 10, Issue 1 -- 08 January 2014

2014-01-10 Thread Wikipedia Signpost
News and notes: WMF sacks employee over paid editing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2014-01-08/News_and_notes Public Domain Day: Why the year 2019 is so significant http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2014-01-08/Public_Domain_Day Op-ed: WikiCup