Re: [Wikimedia-l] To Flow or not to Flow

2014-09-11 Thread John Mark Vandenberg
On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 8:21 AM, Wil Sinclair w...@wllm.com wrote: Tim, do you think that this list of all the useful stuff that talk pages can currently includes things that aren't being done because they are too advanced for newbie editors or too inconvenient for veterans? Regardless, you

Re: [Wikimedia-l] To Flow or not to Flow

2014-09-11 Thread Martijn Hoekstra
On Thursday, September 11, 2014, John Mark Vandenberg jay...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 8:21 AM, Wil Sinclair w...@wllm.com javascript:; wrote: Tim, do you think that this list of all the useful stuff that talk pages can currently includes things that aren't being done because

Re: [Wikimedia-l] To Flow or not to Flow

2014-09-11 Thread Peter Southwood
Exactly what I was thinking. Doesn’t mean it would necessarily work, but you are not alone... Cheers, Peter -Original Message- From: wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Tim Davenport Sent: 10 September 2014 11:12 PM To:

[Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

2014-09-11 Thread Anh Chung
Dear all, Wikimania has been over for a month now and it is already time to discuss the next Wikimedia event, the Wikimedia Conference. A year ago, for the very first time, the movement set up a selection process to choose the host of the conference, 4 chapters applied and WMDE was chosen to

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

2014-09-11 Thread James Forrester
On 11 September 2014 09:27, Anh Chung anh.chung.w...@gmail.com wrote: Dear all, Wikimania has been over for a month now and it is already time to discuss the next Wikimedia event, the Wikimedia Conference. Though I'm sure the event is worthy, I will repeat yet again the request from the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

2014-09-11 Thread Gregory Varnum
I think Wikimedia Affiliates Meeting or Wikimedia Movement Affiliates Meeting would better match the wording used elsewhere. -greg ___ Sent from my iPhone - a more detailed response may be sent later. On Sep 11, 2014, at 12:42 PM, James Forrester jdforres...@gmail.com wrote: On

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

2014-09-11 Thread Ilario Valdelli
On 11.09.2014 18:42, James Forrester wrote: On 11 September 2014 09:27, Anh Chung anh.chung.w...@gmail.com wrote: Dear all, Wikimania has been over for a month now and it is already time to discuss the next Wikimedia event, the Wikimedia Conference. Though I'm sure the event is worthy, I

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

2014-09-11 Thread Nathan
On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 1:52 PM, Ilario Valdelli valde...@gmail.com wrote: Against the funds of WMF. A second conference open to the public would be a second yearly Wikimania, and to open it means to have a budget more or less equal to Wikimania. In addition there are not represented some

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

2014-09-11 Thread James Forrester
On 11 September 2014 10:52, Ilario Valdelli valde...@gmail.com wrote: On 11.09.2014 18:42, James Forrester wrote: On 11 September 2014 09:27, Anh Chung anh.chung.w...@gmail.com wrote: Dear all, Wikimania has been over for a month now and it is already time to discuss the next Wikimedia

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

2014-09-11 Thread Lodewijk
/me mumbles something about a bikeshed that has a beautiful shade of blue. 2014-09-11 20:06 GMT+02:00 James Forrester ja...@jdforrester.org: On 11 September 2014 10:52, Ilario Valdelli valde...@gmail.com wrote: On 11.09.2014 18:42, James Forrester wrote: On 11 September 2014 09:27, Anh

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

2014-09-11 Thread Ilario Valdelli
On 11.09.2014 20:06, James Forrester wrote: On 11 September 2014 10:52, Ilario Valdelli valde...@gmail.com wrote: Against the funds of WMF. A second conference open to the public would be a second yearly Wikimania, and to open it means to have a budget more or less equal to Wikimania.

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

2014-09-11 Thread Isarra Yos
On 11/09/14 18:42, Ilario Valdelli wrote: On 11.09.2014 20:06, James Forrester wrote: On 11 September 2014 10:52, Ilario Valdelli valde...@gmail.com wrote: Against the funds of WMF. A second conference open to the public would be a second yearly Wikimania, and to open it means to have a

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

2014-09-11 Thread Ilario Valdelli
On 11.09.2014 20:48, Isarra Yos wrote: I'm part of the Wikimedia movement, but there are no chapters nearby, nor are there any user groups that I know of relevant to my interests as yet. Thus there is nobody to represent me but myself. If this is Wikimedia, why can't I go to a Wikimedia

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

2014-09-11 Thread Risker
I'm with James and Isarra here. Only a small minority of Wikimedians are part of chapters and affiliated groups; being a member of an organized group has nothing to do with being a Wikimedian, or even directly with Wikimedia itself. This is an exclusionary conference - not only do you have to be

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

2014-09-11 Thread Leigh Thelmadatter
AHEM it is *NOT* easy to create a user group, especially if a chapter is against it. Look at how long the Wiki Borregos application has been left in limbo by Aff Comm and Ive saved some real doozies of emails from several members of said committee. Just a small taste... one of the first

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

2014-09-11 Thread Nathan
Since before planning gets underway is the perfect time to clarify the conference title, and Anh Chung was kind enough to create the pages, I've taken the liberty of moving them to [[Wikimedia Affiliates Conference 2015]]. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list,

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

2014-09-11 Thread Bence Damokos
I believe names and how we treat them both hold great power and tell a lot about the name-giver and power relationships. Wikimedia means different things to different people (possibly all valid), it is both the name for the concept of the different sister projects and their combined ethos forming

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

2014-09-11 Thread Nathan
Hi Bence, We strive not to be bound by bureaucracy, don't we? If we discover that a simple name (as generic as Wikimedia Conference) is slightly misleading, or not completely accurate, then why should we avoid changing it? Particularly as it appears that no process has begun to plan the next

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

2014-09-11 Thread Bence Damokos
The name could be changed if the participants/organisers want to change it. As I tried to point out, I don't see the name as the underlying problem people really have, and changing it will not solve the problem of exclusion people see. We can make a conference that has a participants list that

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

2014-09-11 Thread Ilario Valdelli
On 11.09.2014 21:26, Risker wrote: Please do not call it the Wikimedia conference. It may be many things, but it's not that. Wikimedia Affiliates Conference will do fine. Risker/Anne I think that the misunderstanding is here. This is not the Wikimedia Conference, this is one of several

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

2014-09-11 Thread Nathan
On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 4:13 PM, Bence Damokos bdamo...@gmail.com wrote: The name could be changed if the participants/organisers want to change it. As I tried to point out, I don't see the name as the underlying problem people really have, and changing it will not solve the problem of

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

2014-09-11 Thread Ilario Valdelli
On 11.09.2014 22:27, Nathan wrote: On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 4:13 PM, Bence Damokos bdamo...@gmail.com wrote: But in closing, I will once again point to my statements that names are symbolic and they can be changed. If the participants change the name that sends a totally different vibe than if

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

2014-09-11 Thread Bence Damokos
I can see that people who are (also/only/additionally) part of different interpretations of the word Wikimedia might feel excluded by the use of the name by a subset of people who also make up a valid constellation under the name Wikimedia. I cannot tell if this feeling involves the small number

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

2014-09-11 Thread Alice Wiegand
Is this really a discussion about the name of a conference or is it more a discussion about inclusion and exclusion with the underlying question if this conference, which once was set up as a meeting for the organizations within the Wikimedia movement, should be open for non-organized Wikimedians

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

2014-09-11 Thread Ziko van Dijk
There is no reason to change the name, and no reason to invent a second Wikimania. Also because of finances, the Spring meeting should be really limited to people who make the movement work better. I repeat that, in my opinion, some newer or smaller organisations don't fit really in, or should

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

2014-09-11 Thread Leigh Thelmadatter
If it is to be limited to certain people, why not just have a pre conference with Wikimania? Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 23:36:36 +0200 From: zvand...@gmail.com To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015 There is no reason to change the name, and

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

2014-09-11 Thread Pete Forsyth
On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 1:47 PM, Alice Wiegand me.ly...@gmail.com wrote: Is this really a discussion about the name of a conference or is it more a discussion about inclusion and exclusion with the underlying question if this conference, which once was set up as a meeting for the organizations

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

2014-09-11 Thread Isarra Yos
On 11/09/14 22:06, Pete Forsyth wrote: On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 1:47 PM, Alice Wiegand me.ly...@gmail.com wrote: Is this really a discussion about the name of a conference or is it more a discussion about inclusion and exclusion with the underlying question if this conference, which once was

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

2014-09-11 Thread Charles Gregory
On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 8:34 AM, Isarra Yos zhoris...@gmail.com wrote: On 11/09/14 22:06, Pete Forsyth wrote: Personally, I have no problem with the existence of the conference, but I find its name alienating. Not everyone agrees with that assessment, but clearly some others in this thread

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

2014-09-11 Thread Richard Symonds
I personally prefer silver unpainted bikesheds. That way, they don't need constant repainting. Perhaps it would be best to decide the program. Or indeed something else about it. Targets. Audience. Anything. Our conference baby will indeed need a name, and a name is important, but let's have a

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

2014-09-11 Thread Risker
On 11 September 2014 19:19, Charles Gregory wmau.li...@chuq.net wrote: On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 8:34 AM, Isarra Yos zhoris...@gmail.com wrote: On 11/09/14 22:06, Pete Forsyth wrote: Personally, I have no problem with the existence of the conference, but I find its name alienating. Not

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

2014-09-11 Thread Richard Symonds
But we don't even have a bikeshed or a community centre yet :-P On 12 Sep 2014 00:52, Risker risker...@gmail.com wrote: On 11 September 2014 19:19, Charles Gregory wmau.li...@chuq.net wrote: On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 8:34 AM, Isarra Yos zhoris...@gmail.com wrote: On 11/09/14 22:06, Pete

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

2014-09-11 Thread Risker
We do have a community centre. It's called Meta. It may not be a very elegant one, and there are definitely parts that can be improved, but it's our virtual community centre. Risker/Anne On 11 September 2014 19:54, Richard Symonds richard.symo...@wikimedia.org.uk wrote: But we don't even

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

2014-09-11 Thread Richard Symonds
What I'm saying is, let's plan a conference before we argue over the name. On 12 Sep 2014 00:57, Risker risker...@gmail.com wrote: We do have a community centre. It's called Meta. It may not be a very elegant one, and there are definitely parts that can be improved, but it's our virtual

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

2014-09-11 Thread Pete Forsyth
On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Richard Symonds richard.symo...@wikimedia.org.uk wrote: What I'm saying is, let's plan a conference before we argue over the name. But, most of the people on this list wouldn't have anything to do with this conference -- surely there's a better resource for

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

2014-09-11 Thread Pine W
I like the idea of having this event be a pre-conference for Wikimania. That may reduce total travel costs and travel time for the people who usually attend both events. This may also simplify planning for people and thorgs. Pine On Sep 11, 2014 5:25 PM, Pete Forsyth petefors...@gmail.com wrote:

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

2014-09-11 Thread Charles Gregory
... but the conference has been running for a few years, and has gradually evolved over that time, from primarily chapters, to other affiliate organisations, AffCom itself, FDC in recent years, etc. I don't think anyone is suggesting any revolutionary changes for the next one? Just a change in

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

2014-09-11 Thread Nathan
An editor has moved the pages back, for anyone interested. Amusingly illogical rationale in the edit summary, but what can you do. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

2014-09-11 Thread Risker
On 11 September 2014 22:07, Charles Gregory wmau.li...@chuq.net wrote: ... but the conference has been running for a few years, and has gradually evolved over that time, from primarily chapters, to other affiliate organisations, AffCom itself, FDC in recent years, etc. I don't think anyone

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Quarterly reviews of high priority WMF initiatives

2014-09-11 Thread Tilman Bayer
Minutes and slides from last week's quarterly review of the Foundation's Release Engineering and QA team are now available at https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WMF_Metrics_and_activities_meetings/Quarterly_reviews/Release_Engineering/September_2014 . On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 6:49 PM, Erik Moeller

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2015

2014-09-11 Thread Lodewijk
So basically you're arguing that if people want to have a more sensible discussion about the who, what where, they should use a closed mailing list? Like it was done in the past? Fine with me. Please continue the discussion about the color, but it would be more effective to have started a