Re: [Wikimedia-l] WaPo Wikipedia's 'complicated; relationship with net neutrality

2014-11-30 Thread Ryan Lane
Kim Bruning kim@... writes: Washington post article http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2014/11/25/wikipedias-complicated-relationship-with-net-neutrality/ The response to this is embarrassing and lacking. Wikipedia Zero is an amazing program (and is one of the only

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Why is bank transfer no longer possible?

2014-11-30 Thread
On 30 November 2014 at 07:35, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com wrote: ... Do not be daft. The Wikimedia Foundation centralised its fundraising. It said that it would do a better job. Seen from a central periphery model, it probably does, However seen from the Netherlands it is rather

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WaPo Wikipedia's 'complicated; relationship with net neutrality

2014-11-30 Thread Mark
On 11/30/14, 9:49 AM, Ryan Lane wrote: Providing free access to Wikipedia doesn't violate the concept of net neutrality. Access to Wikimedia is being subsidized by the mobile companies. Access to other sources of information isn't being slowed. There's no extra charge to access other sources of

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WaPo Wikipedia's 'complicated; relationship with net neutrality

2014-11-30 Thread rupert THURNER
On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 9:49 AM, Ryan Lane rlan...@gmail.com wrote: Kim Bruning kim@... writes: Washington post article http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2014/11/25/wikipedias-complicated-relationship-with-net-neutrality/ The response to this is embarrassing and lacking.

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Why is bank transfer no longer possible?

2014-11-30 Thread rupert THURNER
hi mz, you are right, the whole wikipedia is built by volunteer time and could have not been built otherwise. so volunteer time clearly is worth significantly more. i sometimes feel ripped off as a volunteer. first i donate my time, and then people approach me to addtionally spend money for a

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Appointment of Delphine Ménard, Lodewijk Gelauff and Bence Damokos as AffCom Advisers

2014-11-30 Thread Itzik - Wikimedia Israel
Congratulations! I know each of them personally, and I have no doubt they will bring huge expertise to the committee! Good luck! *Regards,Itzik Edri* Chairperson, Wikimedia Israel +972-(0)-54-5878078 | http://www.wikimedia.org.il Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely

[Wikimedia-l] Role and size of the Wikimedia Foundation and chapters

2014-11-30 Thread MZMcBride
Gerard Meijssen wrote: Do not be daft. The Wikimedia Foundation centralised its fundraising. It said that it would do a better job. Seen from a central periphery model, it probably does, However seen from the Netherlands it is rather silly., Pooh poohing this away with you can donate time as well

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WaPo Wikipedia's 'complicated; relationship with net neutrality

2014-11-30 Thread MZMcBride
Ryan Lane wrote: Kim Bruning kim@... writes (roughly): Washington post article: http://wapo.st/1zUXNXj The response to this is embarrassing and lacking. Wikipedia Zero is an amazing program (and is one of the only excellent non-engineering things the foundation has done). [...] I think

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WaPo Wikipedia's 'complicated; relationship with net neutrality

2014-11-30 Thread Marc A. Pelletier
On 11/30/2014 11:08 AM, MZMcBride wrote: I think it's difficult to argue that Wikipedia Zero is not, at least in the strictest sense, a violation of net neutrality. That's perfectly true, but because the traditional definition of net neutrality (and, by extension, the definition of what

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WaPo Wikipedia's 'complicated; relationship with net neutrality

2014-11-30 Thread David Gerard
On 30 November 2014 at 17:14, Marc A. Pelletier m...@uberbox.org wrote: So it's clearly neutral in the equally available sense of the term. And it remains neutral in the competition sense of the term since they are welcome to zero-rate any other service they wish alongside ours. This is

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Why is bank transfer no longer possible?

2014-11-30 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, Our community, movement and our foundation is pretty darn good. When you consider all the imperfections, there is after all room for improvement, it is really amazing how much is achieved on such a shoestring budget. We pay the prize for under-investing in our organisation, in our

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WaPo Wikipedia's 'complicated; relationship with net neutrality

2014-11-30 Thread Jens Best
2-3 short remarks to your arguments, Marc: First it's kind of interesting that net neutrality which is very clear in its definition becomes overly simplistic and unrealistic and inadequate the moment it collides with an organisations own interests. Isn't that quite an coincidence? ;) Principles

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Why is bank transfer no longer possible?

2014-11-30 Thread Federico Leva (Nemo)
Michael Snow, 30/11/2014 01:03: One avenue for fraud that's facilitated by posting account numbers is small payment fraud, usually involving stolen credit cards. [.] So what all this message have to do with IBAN? Nemo ___ Wikimedia-l

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Appointment of Delphine Ménard, Lodewijk Gelauff and Bence Damokos as AffCom Advisers

2014-11-30 Thread Keilana
Thank you so much for being willing to offer your considerable expertise! -Emily On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 8:55 AM, Itzik - Wikimedia Israel it...@wikimedia.org.il wrote: Congratulations! I know each of them personally, and I have no doubt they will bring huge expertise to the committee!

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Why is bank transfer no longer possible?

2014-11-30 Thread Michael Snow
On 11/30/2014 10:19 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote: Michael Snow, 30/11/2014 01:03: One avenue for fraud that's facilitated by posting account numbers is small payment fraud, usually involving stolen credit cards. [.] So what all this message have to do with IBAN? As the rest of

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Why is bank transfer no longer possible?

2014-11-30 Thread Jan Ainali
2014-11-30 19:40 GMT+01:00 Michael Snow wikipe...@frontier.com: On 11/30/2014 10:19 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote: Michael Snow, 30/11/2014 01:03: One avenue for fraud that's facilitated by posting account numbers is small payment fraud, usually involving stolen credit cards.

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Why is bank transfer no longer possible?

2014-11-30 Thread Bence Damokos
On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 7:40 PM, Michael Snow wikipe...@frontier.com wrote: On 11/30/2014 10:19 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote: Michael Snow, 30/11/2014 01:03: One avenue for fraud that's facilitated by posting account numbers is small payment fraud, usually involving stolen credit cards.

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WaPo Wikipedia's 'complicated; relationship with net neutrality

2014-11-30 Thread Todd Allen
Second, well, of course all providers are happy to use Wikipedia (Zero) as a door opener to get the customer used to different treatment of data (which is a clear violation of net neutrality). Exactly this. Net neutrality means that the pipes are totally dumb, not favoring -any- service over any

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Why is bank transfer no longer possible?

2014-11-30 Thread Federico Leva (Nemo)
Michael Snow, 30/11/2014 19:40: As the rest of the message discussed, the fraudsters can use the IBAN to make a donation in order to test that stolen card information belongs to a real credit card. Are you sure you know what an IBAN is? Anyway, please inform the European Central Bank of your

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WaPo Wikipedia's 'complicated; relationship with net neutrality

2014-11-30 Thread Ryan Lane
Mark delirium@... writes: I don't see a distinction here, unless you're extremely naive about economics. Discriminatory pricing in any market can be done in two ways: 1. have a standard rate and add a surcharge to certain disfavored uses; or 2. have a standard rate and give a discount to

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WaPo Wikipedia's 'complicated; relationship with net neutrality

2014-11-30 Thread Ryan Lane
MZMcBride z at mzmcbride.com writes: Ryan Lane wrote: Kim Bruning kim at ... writes (roughly): Washington post article: http://wapo.st/1zUXNXj The response to this is embarrassing and lacking. Wikipedia Zero is an amazing program (and is one of the only excellent

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Role and size of the Wikimedia Foundation and chapters

2014-11-30 Thread Ryan Lane
MZMcBride z at mzmcbride.com writes: Gerard Meijssen wrote: Do not be daft. The Wikimedia Foundation centralised its fundraising. It said that it would do a better job. Seen from a central periphery model, it probably does, However seen from the Netherlands it is rather silly., Pooh

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Why is bank transfer no longer possible?

2014-11-30 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, An IBAN number is NOT a credit card ... You need a ping number in combination with some smart card functionality in order to make it work.. The combination generates a number that is always different.. You can steal my card but making use of it without the pin number is really hard, next to

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Why is bank transfer no longer possible?

2014-11-30 Thread Frédéric Schütz
On 29/11/14 10:05, Lodewijk wrote: Thanks for the clarification. It's surprising to me that posting a bank account number could lead to fraud - the bank systems are supposed to be robust enough for that. My understanding is this is mostly a problem in the US, from what I heard from Garfield.

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Need help about Wikipedia in science

2014-11-30 Thread Erlend Bjørtvedt
Thank you all for very valuable information and ideas!! Erlend Bjørtvedt WMNO Den mandag 24. november 2014 skrev Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com følgende: Hoi, Today or tomorrow, time permitting I will blog about how universities can check what alumni and employees are known for

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Appointment of Delphine Ménard, Lodewijk Gelauff and Bence Damokos as AffCom Advisers

2014-11-30 Thread Isabella Apriyana
Congratulations! On Dec 1, 2014 1:39 AM, Keilana keilanaw...@gmail.com wrote: Thank you so much for being willing to offer your considerable expertise! -Emily On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 8:55 AM, Itzik - Wikimedia Israel it...@wikimedia.org.il wrote: Congratulations! I know each of them

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Why is bank transfer no longer possible?

2014-11-30 Thread Michael Snow
On 11/30/2014 1:14 PM, Gerard Meijssen wrote: Hoi, An IBAN number is NOT a credit card ... You need a ping number in combination with some smart card functionality in order to make it work.. The combination generates a number that is always different.. You seem to have misunderstood the scenario

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Why is bank transfer no longer possible?

2014-11-30 Thread Michael Snow
On 11/30/2014 11:12 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote: Anyway, please inform the European Central Bank of your findings, I'm sure they'll be interested in hearing them. Currently their website seems unaware of such fraud possibilities and contains statements such as «Sensitive data payment: Data

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WaPo Wikipedia's 'complicated; relationship with net neutrality

2014-11-30 Thread Tim Starling
On 01/12/14 06:10, Todd Allen wrote: Second, well, of course all providers are happy to use Wikipedia (Zero) as a door opener to get the customer used to different treatment of data (which is a clear violation of net neutrality). Exactly this. Net neutrality means that the pipes are totally

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WaPo Wikipedia's 'complicated; relationship with net neutrality

2014-11-30 Thread svetlana
On Mon, 1 Dec 2014, at 15:21, Tim Starling wrote: On 01/12/14 06:10, Todd Allen wrote: Second, well, of course all providers are happy to use Wikipedia (Zero) as a door opener to get the customer used to different treatment of data (which is a clear violation of net neutrality).

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Why is bank transfer no longer possible?

2014-11-30 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, IMHO we need to advertise how people can transfer money to us. It requires an account number. Now if the USA is not able to accommodate this, FINE, let us do it in Europe at least.. WHAT AM I MISSING HERE ? Thanks, GerardM On 1 December 2014 at 03:38, Michael Snow

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Why is bank transfer no longer possible?

2014-11-30 Thread Risker
Ummm. We have all kinds of ways for people to donate, and the process for transferring is pretty clear. Having been in a situation where I had to make bank transfers, I felt honestly like I was handing over the keys to the kingdom just for the right to pay someone money: far more personal

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WaPo Wikipedia's 'complicated; relationship with net neutrality

2014-11-30 Thread Milos Rancic
I don't see economics here, unless you are extremely naive about reality. There are some items -- abused or not for marketing purposes of the entities used for achieving interests of their shareholders -- which belong to the corpus of common good. Like air and free knowledge are, for example.

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Why is bank transfer no longer possible?

2014-11-30 Thread Tim Landscheidt
Frédéric Schütz sch...@mathgen.ch wrote: Thanks for the clarification. It's surprising to me that posting a bank account number could lead to fraud - the bank systems are supposed to be robust enough for that. My understanding is this is mostly a problem in the US, from what I heard from

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Why is bank transfer no longer possible?

2014-11-30 Thread Tim Landscheidt
Michael Snow wikipe...@frontier.com wrote: [...] Also, I'm no expert on EU regulations, but I do observe that according to the European Payments Council, it seems payees receiving SEPA credit transfers are advised to communicate the IBAN only where necessary:

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WaPo Wikipedia's 'complicated; relationship with net neutrality

2014-11-30 Thread Tim Landscheidt
Mike Godwin mnemo...@gmail.com wrote: [...] Trying to understand Wikipedia Zero as some kind of self-interested organizational move is a mistake, in my view. What it is, IMHO, is a logical development based on the core mission statement of Wikipedia. And in the long term it's actually

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Why is bank transfer no longer possible?

2014-11-30 Thread Lodewijk
just for the record: the IBAN we have been talking about al this time is the bank account number of a WMF bank account in euro, at a bank located in Paris (and previously in Brussels). Of course the WMF has a euro bank account, it would be odd if they didn't. Lodewijk ps: no need to shout. On

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WaPo Wikipedia's 'complicated; relationship with net neutrality

2014-11-30 Thread Mark
On 12/1/14, 7:11 AM, Milos Rancic wrote: There are some items -- abused or not for marketing purposes of the entities used for achieving interests of their shareholders -- which belong to the corpus of common good. Like air and free knowledge are, for example. If an ISP wanted to make *all*