Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wmcon15] Re: [Wikisource-l] Wikisource UG report on the WMCON15
I'm all for this. Juan Bautista Alegre Wikimedia Philippines — Sent from Mailbox On Saturday May 30, 2015 at 1:08 PM, Asaf Bartov abar...@wikimedia.org, wrote: Thank you for sharing this. I could not attend that session, and this was an interesting read. I would be happy to advise on some of the proposed ideas if there are people interested in leading them. A. On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 2:04 AM, David Cuenca Tudela dacu...@gmail.com wrote: Dear all, I have written a short piece on the WMCON and some interesting aspects about the organizational future of User Groups. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ew8cVJhqqenGUAVVaTQqkisyPyd1tSX-zbVfi-Uuo8U/edit?usp=sharing Cheers, Micru ___ Wikisource-l mailing list wikisourc...@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikisource-l -- Asaf Bartov Wikimedia Foundation Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality! https://donate.wikimedia.org ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wmcon15] Re: [Wikisource-l] Wikisource UG report on the WMCON15
could you pleas share that on Meta? On 30 May 2015 at 06:13, David Cuenca Tudela dacu...@gmail.com wrote: Dear Asaf and Juan Bautista, Thanks a lot for your comments, I am glad to have some feedback on these ideas that were discussed during the WMCON. They are not entirely mine, they just popped up while discussing the topic and I think they might be interesting to explore them. TBH, I think they need more discussion in person and see if there are any takers. It is a big responsibility to start leading projects, specially now that the (human) interfaces are not that clear. If the Wikisource conference does happen in the end, it will be the perfect to advance on these discussions and start experimenting with organizational structures. Better to experiment at little scale first and learn from it than to expect global change without testing it first on the local level first. Cheers, Micru On Sat, May 30, 2015 at 7:30 AM Juan Bautista H. Alegre johnny.ale...@wikimedia.org.ph wrote: I'm all for this. Juan Bautista Alegre Wikimedia Philippines — Sent from Mailbox https://www.dropbox.com/mailbox On Saturday May 30, 2015 at 1:08 PM, Asaf Bartov abar...@wikimedia.org , wrote: Thank you for sharing this. I could not attend that session, and this was an interesting read. I would be happy to advise on some of the proposed ideas if there are people interested in leading them. A. On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 2:04 AM, David Cuenca Tudela dacu...@gmail.com wrote: Dear all, I have written a short piece on the WMCON and some interesting aspects about the organizational future of User Groups. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ew8cVJhqqenGUAVVaTQqkisyPyd1tSX-zbVfi-Uuo8U/edit?usp=sharing Cheers, Micru ___ Wikisource-l mailing list wikisourc...@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikisource-l -- Asaf Bartov Wikimedia Foundation http://www.wikimediafoundation.org Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality! https://donate.wikimedia.org ___ Wmcon15_wikimedia.de mailing list wmco...@wikimedia.de https://ml06.ispgateway.de/mailman/listinfo/wmcon15_wikimedia.de ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe -- Rodrigo Tetsuo Argenton rodrigo.argen...@gmail.com +55 11 979 718 884 ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] While Election committee counts the votes...
On Tue, Jun 2, 2015 at 4:38 AM, Luis Villa lvi...@wikimedia.org wrote: (I know some FOSS communities are having good experiences with discourse.org, for example.) Please, please, can we do that too? :-) FWIW, I studied Discourse a bit and I think it has enormous potential. It is developed with the explicit goal of fostering rational discussion and discouraging trolling and harassment and all the awful things that make the Internet the awful place it often is. As we are the awesome, shiny part of the Internet, we should know better. It's worth a try. Aubrey ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
[Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [Wikitech-l] API BREAKING CHANGE: Default continuation mode for action=query will change at the end of this month
Forwarding because of the significance of the change for bots. My understanding is that this affects all wikis, so please get this information out to relevant bot operators on all wikis. Translated messages may be very much appreciated. Pine -- Forwarded message -- From: Brad Jorsch (Anomie) bjor...@wikimedia.org Date: Jun 2, 2015 1:43 PM Subject: [Wikitech-l] API BREAKING CHANGE: Default continuation mode for action=query will change at the end of this month To: Wikimedia developers wikitec...@lists.wikimedia.org, mediawiki-api-annou...@lists.wikimedia.org Cc: As has been announced several times (most recently at https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2015-April/081559.html), the default continuation mode for action=query requests to api.php will be changing to be easier for new coders to use correctly. *The date is now set:* we intend to merge the change to ride the deployment train at the end of June. That should be 1.26wmf12, to be deployed to test wikis on June 30, non-Wikipedias on July 1, and Wikipedias on July 2. If your bot or script is receiving the warning about this upcoming change (as seen here https://www.mediawiki.org/w/api.php?action=querylist=allpages, for example), it's time to fix your code! - The simple solution is to simply include the rawcontinue parameter with your request to continue receiving the raw continuation data ( example https://www.mediawiki.org/w/api.php?action=querylist=allpagesrawcontinue=1 ). No other code changes should be necessary. - Or you could update your code to use the simplified continuation documented at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/API:Query#Continuing_queries (example https://www.mediawiki.org/w/api.php?action=querylist=allpagescontinue= ), which is much easier for clients to implement correctly. Either of the above solutions may be tested immediately, you'll know it works because you stop seeing the warning. I've compiled a list of bots that have hit the deprecation warning more than 1 times over the course of the week May 23–29. If you are responsible for any of these bots, please fix them. If you know who is, please make sure they've seen this notification. Thanks. AAlertBot AboHeidiBot AbshirBot Acebot Ameenbot ArnauBot Beau.bot Begemot-Bot BeneBot* BeriBot BOT-Superzerocool CalakBot CamelBot CandalBot CategorizationBot CatWatchBot ClueBot_III ClueBot_NG CobainBot CorenSearchBot Cyberbot_I Cyberbot_II DanmicholoBot DeltaQuadBot Dexbot Dibot EdinBot ElphiBot ErfgoedBot Faebot Fatemibot FawikiPatroller HAL HasteurBot HerculeBot Hexabot HRoestBot IluvatarBot Invadibot Irclogbot Irfan-bot Jimmy-abot JYBot Krdbot Legobot Lowercase_sigmabot_III MahdiBot MalarzBOT MastiBot Merge_bot NaggoBot NasirkhanBot NirvanaBot Obaid-bot PatruBOT PBot Phe-bot Rezabot RMCD_bot Shuaib-bot SineBot SteinsplitterBot SvickBOT TaxonBot Theo's_Little_Bot W2Bot WLE-SpainBot Xqbot YaCBot ZedlikBot ZkBot -- Brad Jorsch (Anomie) Software Engineer Wikimedia Foundation ___ Wikitech-l mailing list wikitec...@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [Wikitech-l] API BREAKING CHANGE: Default continuation mode for action=query will change at the end of this month
This is something that the pywiki devs need to fix in compat. Please dont give me shit about moving to core. I have yet to have it not fatally error out in less than 10 minutes of using it. There are still a lot of features that core doesnt have, or that are poorly implemented. On Tue, Jun 2, 2015 at 8:27 PM, Pine W wiki.p...@gmail.com wrote: Forwarding because of the significance of the change for bots. My understanding is that this affects all wikis, so please get this information out to relevant bot operators on all wikis. Translated messages may be very much appreciated. Pine -- Forwarded message -- From: Brad Jorsch (Anomie) bjor...@wikimedia.org Date: Jun 2, 2015 1:43 PM Subject: [Wikitech-l] API BREAKING CHANGE: Default continuation mode for action=query will change at the end of this month To: Wikimedia developers wikitec...@lists.wikimedia.org, mediawiki-api-annou...@lists.wikimedia.org Cc: As has been announced several times (most recently at https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2015-April/081559.html), the default continuation mode for action=query requests to api.php will be changing to be easier for new coders to use correctly. *The date is now set:* we intend to merge the change to ride the deployment train at the end of June. That should be 1.26wmf12, to be deployed to test wikis on June 30, non-Wikipedias on July 1, and Wikipedias on July 2. If your bot or script is receiving the warning about this upcoming change (as seen here https://www.mediawiki.org/w/api.php?action=querylist=allpages, for example), it's time to fix your code! - The simple solution is to simply include the rawcontinue parameter with your request to continue receiving the raw continuation data ( example https://www.mediawiki.org/w/api.php?action=querylist=allpagesrawcontinue=1 ). No other code changes should be necessary. - Or you could update your code to use the simplified continuation documented at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/API:Query#Continuing_queries (example https://www.mediawiki.org/w/api.php?action=querylist=allpagescontinue= ), which is much easier for clients to implement correctly. Either of the above solutions may be tested immediately, you'll know it works because you stop seeing the warning. I've compiled a list of bots that have hit the deprecation warning more than 1 times over the course of the week May 23–29. If you are responsible for any of these bots, please fix them. If you know who is, please make sure they've seen this notification. Thanks. AAlertBot AboHeidiBot AbshirBot Acebot Ameenbot ArnauBot Beau.bot Begemot-Bot BeneBot* BeriBot BOT-Superzerocool CalakBot CamelBot CandalBot CategorizationBot CatWatchBot ClueBot_III ClueBot_NG CobainBot CorenSearchBot Cyberbot_I Cyberbot_II DanmicholoBot DeltaQuadBot Dexbot Dibot EdinBot ElphiBot ErfgoedBot Faebot Fatemibot FawikiPatroller HAL HasteurBot HerculeBot Hexabot HRoestBot IluvatarBot Invadibot Irclogbot Irfan-bot Jimmy-abot JYBot Krdbot Legobot Lowercase_sigmabot_III MahdiBot MalarzBOT MastiBot Merge_bot NaggoBot NasirkhanBot NirvanaBot Obaid-bot PatruBOT PBot Phe-bot Rezabot RMCD_bot Shuaib-bot SineBot SteinsplitterBot SvickBOT TaxonBot Theo's_Little_Bot W2Bot WLE-SpainBot Xqbot YaCBot ZedlikBot ZkBot -- Brad Jorsch (Anomie) Software Engineer Wikimedia Foundation ___ Wikitech-l mailing list wikitec...@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] While Election committee counts the votes...
Luis, I have to say that you are the first person on WMF side who has substantially engaged into this issue and I am very glad to see that :) The products of your work are of the highest importance, as the community is the most important part of our movement, not to say that it's the movement itself. I am finally relieved to know that we are on the path to rationally understand what's going on inside of the community after short 14.5 years. It would be good if you'd share your results with the rest of us. As for this list: As MZ said, this list is important. However, there is no doubt that it's far from being the only or even the most important indicator of community health. It is just about one of the rare publicly accessible data which could give a clue of what's going on inside of the community, but could mislead, as well. On Jun 2, 2015 04:39, Luis Villa lvi...@wikimedia.org wrote: On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 10:57 AM, Milos Rancic mill...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 7:51 PM, Luis Villa lvi...@wikimedia.org wrote: On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 9:26 AM, Andrew Lih andrew@gmail.com wrote: 3. Participation in the mailing list may be a misleading indicator of activity or interest, as other regional or specialized forums (eg. Facebook, GLAM-oriented lists, etc) have emerged in recent years. Let me second this. My department is thinking about community health metrics (constructive suggestions welcome!), but I would not personally propose mailing list participation (especially this list) as a good metric - decreased participation here may reflect many, many things, only some of which are actually negative. This is not the only one indicator, but it's pretty consistent since 2011 (take a look into [1]). In other words, something happened in May. Maybe it's actually about the elections because people used other means of communication for that. Looking briefly at some of the highest-traffic months, it could simply be that people got tired of discussing high-controversy topics here. (Flamewars are good for traffic volume; not so great for community health.) I'm sure Facebook's increased acceptance also has a role. I suspect also that some announcements that used to come here now go to other, more specialized mailing lists. That last one points to a key thing: as MZ says, many people are subscribed to this list, but many don't read and don't participate, because this mailing list has an *awful* reputation, and people who want to get things done are going elsewhere. So the decline of wikimedia-l may be a sign of bad health of the overall community, or it may simply mean that the healthy and constructive parts of the community has moved elsewhere. To re-iterate what I said in the last email, I'm all ears for suggestions on creative community metrics. I'll add here that I'm also very open to suggestions on what a new wikimedia-l might look like. (I know some FOSS communities are having good experiences with discourse.org, for example.) No commitment that WMF can act on either immediately, of course, but I think it is worth starting both of those discussions. Luis -- Luis Villa Sr. Director of Community Engagement Wikimedia Foundation *Working towards a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge.* ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] FDC annual plan grant recommendations for 2014-2015 Round 2
Thank you Dariusz and all and the other outgoing FDC members for your hard and impressive work! I think the latest round of decisions proves just how much effort the committee puts into making thoughtful and independent decisions. Best regards from Vienna Claudia -- Claudia Garád Geschäftsführerin Wikimedia Österreich - Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens www.wikimedia.at http://www.wikimedia.at Am 01.06.2015 um 17:18 schrieb Dariusz Jemielniak: Hello Wikimedians, The Funds Dissemination Committee (FDC) meets twice a year to help make decisions about how to effectively allocate movement funds to achieve the Wikimedia movement's mission, vision, and strategy. [1] Just before the Wikimedia Conference, the FDC met in Berlin to deliberate on the five proposals submitted for this Round. [2] We thank these organizations for their hard work on their annual plans and their proposals. The FDC has now posted our recommendations on Meta for Round 2 2014-2015 on the annual plan grants to the Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees. [3] Thanks to the leadership of the FDC’s two Board Representatives (Maria Sefidari and Frieda Brioschi), the WMF Board will review the recommendations and then make their decision on them by 1 July 2015. This round, the six proposals were submitted to the FDC. One proposal was withdrawn before we met to deliberate. We recommended allocations totaling roughly $1,248,913 USD for these five organizations. Note that all allocations were made in local currency. A total of $5,060,913 was allocated in both rounds in this year (2014-2015). The remaining $939,087 from the FDC’s $6 million budget will be returned to the Wikimedia Foundation. Before our face-to-face deliberations, the FDC reviewed the proposals in careful detail. We also reviewed staff assessments and analysis on impact, finances, and programs, as well as community comments on the proposals. We also took into consideration the discussion pages of relevant documents. There is a formal process for grant applicants to submit complaints or appeals about these recommendations. Here are the steps for both: Any organization that would like to submit an appeal on the FDC’s Round 2 recommendation should submit it to the Board representatives to the FDC by 23:59 UTC on 8 July 2015 in accordance with the appeal process outlined in the FDC Framework. A formal appeal to challenge the FDC’s recommendation should be in the form of a 500-or-fewer word summary directed to the two non-voting WMF Board representatives to the FDC (Maria Sefidari and Frieda Brioschi). The appeal should be submitted on-wiki, [4] and must be submitted by the Board Chair of a funding-seeking applicant. The Board will publish its decision on this and all recommendations by 1 July 2015. Complaints to the ombudsperson about the FDC process can be filed by anyone with the Ombudsperson and can be made any time. The complaint should be submitted on wiki, as well. [5] The ombudsperson will publicly document the complaint, and investigate as needed. The FDC would like to thank Wikimedia Deutschland for hosting this Round’s deliberations. We appreciate the team that worked hard to make our deliberations meeting a smooth and successful event. Finally, we offer our sincere thanks to the six organizations who submitted annual plan grant proposals to the FDC. On behalf of the FDC, pundit Dariusz Jemielniak (FDC Chair) [1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:APG [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:APG/Proposals/2014-2015_round2 [3] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:APG/FDC_portal/FDC_recommendations/2014-2015_round2 [4] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:APG/Appeals_to_the_Board_on_the_recommendations_of_the_FDC [5] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:APG/Complaints_about_the_FDC_process ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wmcon15] Re: [Wikisource-l] Wikisource UG report on the WMCON15
Hi Rodrigo, I shared it on the meta page of the Wikisource Community User Group, 2015 update https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikisource_Community_User_Group#Updates Is there any other place where you want me to share it? Cheers, Micru On Tue, Jun 2, 2015 at 9:08 AM, Rodrigo Tetsuo Argenton rodrigo.argen...@gmail.com wrote: could you pleas share that on Meta? On 30 May 2015 at 06:13, David Cuenca Tudela dacu...@gmail.com wrote: Dear Asaf and Juan Bautista, Thanks a lot for your comments, I am glad to have some feedback on these ideas that were discussed during the WMCON. They are not entirely mine, they just popped up while discussing the topic and I think they might be interesting to explore them. TBH, I think they need more discussion in person and see if there are any takers. It is a big responsibility to start leading projects, specially now that the (human) interfaces are not that clear. If the Wikisource conference does happen in the end, it will be the perfect to advance on these discussions and start experimenting with organizational structures. Better to experiment at little scale first and learn from it than to expect global change without testing it first on the local level first. Cheers, Micru On Sat, May 30, 2015 at 7:30 AM Juan Bautista H. Alegre johnny.ale...@wikimedia.org.ph wrote: I'm all for this. Juan Bautista Alegre Wikimedia Philippines — Sent from Mailbox https://www.dropbox.com/mailbox On Saturday May 30, 2015 at 1:08 PM, Asaf Bartov abar...@wikimedia.org , wrote: Thank you for sharing this. I could not attend that session, and this was an interesting read. I would be happy to advise on some of the proposed ideas if there are people interested in leading them. A. On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 2:04 AM, David Cuenca Tudela dacu...@gmail.com wrote: Dear all, I have written a short piece on the WMCON and some interesting aspects about the organizational future of User Groups. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ew8cVJhqqenGUAVVaTQqkisyPyd1tSX-zbVfi-Uuo8U/edit?usp=sharing Cheers, Micru ___ Wikisource-l mailing list wikisourc...@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikisource-l -- Asaf Bartov Wikimedia Foundation http://www.wikimediafoundation.org Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality! https://donate.wikimedia.org ___ Wmcon15_wikimedia.de mailing list wmco...@wikimedia.de https://ml06.ispgateway.de/mailman/listinfo/wmcon15_wikimedia.de ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe -- Rodrigo Tetsuo Argenton rodrigo.argen...@gmail.com +55 11 979 718 884 ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe -- Etiamsi omnes, ego non ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
[Wikimedia-l] Community health (retitled thread)
Speaking of specialized lists, I'd like to suggest that this discussion would be well suited to Research-l, where many people who are interested in these kinds of questions read and write about them more frequently than they do on Wikimedia-l. I'm boldly adding that list to the recipients for this thread. I have some thoughts about the substance of this discussion but they're a bit rushed at the moment. I may write more later. Regards, Pine On Jun 2, 2015 4:32 AM, Milos Rancic mill...@gmail.com wrote: Luis, I have to say that you are the first person on WMF side who has substantially engaged into this issue and I am very glad to see that :) The products of your work are of the highest importance, as the community is the most important part of our movement, not to say that it's the movement itself. I am finally relieved to know that we are on the path to rationally understand what's going on inside of the community after short 14.5 years. It would be good if you'd share your results with the rest of us. As for this list: As MZ said, this list is important. However, there is no doubt that it's far from being the only or even the most important indicator of community health. It is just about one of the rare publicly accessible data which could give a clue of what's going on inside of the community, but could mislead, as well. On Jun 2, 2015 04:39, Luis Villa lvi...@wikimedia.org wrote: On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 10:57 AM, Milos Rancic mill...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 7:51 PM, Luis Villa lvi...@wikimedia.org wrote: On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 9:26 AM, Andrew Lih andrew@gmail.com wrote: 3. Participation in the mailing list may be a misleading indicator of activity or interest, as other regional or specialized forums (eg. Facebook, GLAM-oriented lists, etc) have emerged in recent years. Let me second this. My department is thinking about community health metrics (constructive suggestions welcome!), but I would not personally propose mailing list participation (especially this list) as a good metric - decreased participation here may reflect many, many things, only some of which are actually negative. This is not the only one indicator, but it's pretty consistent since 2011 (take a look into [1]). In other words, something happened in May. Maybe it's actually about the elections because people used other means of communication for that. Looking briefly at some of the highest-traffic months, it could simply be that people got tired of discussing high-controversy topics here. (Flamewars are good for traffic volume; not so great for community health.) I'm sure Facebook's increased acceptance also has a role. I suspect also that some announcements that used to come here now go to other, more specialized mailing lists. That last one points to a key thing: as MZ says, many people are subscribed to this list, but many don't read and don't participate, because this mailing list has an *awful* reputation, and people who want to get things done are going elsewhere. So the decline of wikimedia-l may be a sign of bad health of the overall community, or it may simply mean that the healthy and constructive parts of the community has moved elsewhere. To re-iterate what I said in the last email, I'm all ears for suggestions on creative community metrics. I'll add here that I'm also very open to suggestions on what a new wikimedia-l might look like. (I know some FOSS communities are having good experiences with discourse.org, for example.) No commitment that WMF can act on either immediately, of course, but I think it is worth starting both of those discussions. Luis -- Luis Villa Sr. Director of Community Engagement Wikimedia Foundation *Working towards a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge.* ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
