Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Securing access to Wikimedia sites with HTTPS

2015-06-14 Thread Tanweer Morshed
But won't the people in Iran or China would be able to access the Wikimedia
sites through http instead of https? And what about accessing through https
within Wikipedia Zero? Is cost-free access available through https?

On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 12:54 PM, geni geni...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 14 June 2015 at 05:21, Comet styles cometsty...@gmail.com wrote:

  China and Iran blocks https (and WMF thinks https is more secure than
  http when it can be EASILY blocked lol)

 China is currently blocking HTTP and has done so quite frequently. The
 ability to block is largely unrelated to security.



  so people in these countries
  used wikipedia on http, so some here think that these countries are
  spying on them by forcing them to use http, but that https block in
  this countries was NOT to target wikipedia, it was to target social
  networking sites and  american based email sites like yahoo and gmail
  etc..but now by moving to HTTPS, we have now become a target for those
  countries..well done..


 That doesn't make sense. HTTPs doesn't hide the domain. The country can
 still tell that someone is visiting wikipedia rather than say facebook.
 What becomes more difficult is telling what a person is viewing on
 wikipedia.



  and to add to that, people who used
  wikipedia in those countries to find the truth about whats happening
  in their country and other regions can no longer do so since its
  blocked..Well Done again WMF..


 Well actually no they couldn't if they had a government with active
 blocking measures. With HTTP traffic governments and ISPs can (and did)
 block individual pages that they don't like.



 
  Someone has to be fired for this.
 
 
 That would seem to be something of an over reaction even if you disagree
 with the decision.

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Securing access to Wikimedia sites with HTTPS

2015-06-14 Thread Josh Lim
Uh, I’m from a Third World country, and while I know the Internet here in the 
Philippines is shitty, I don’t think the WMF can be blamed for that.  I’ve been 
using HTTPS for quite a while now and for the most part, it works normally.

Let’s try to avoid overly generalizing the developing world here.  However, I 
too would like to hear something from the WMF as to how they will deal with the 
situation in countries where HTTPS is actively being blocked.

Josh

 Wiadomość napisana przez Comet styles cometsty...@gmail.com w dniu 13 cze 
 2015, o godz. 06:34:
 
 Congrats, you just made internet shitty for all 3rd world countries
 and did you people even bother to find out how it will affect users in
 China or Iran where HTTPS is BANNED?.
 
 On 6/13/15, Tito Dutta trulyt...@gmail.com wrote:
 Great job. :)
 Thanks for informing
 [PS. to members, you may read the WP:VPT
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_%28technical%29#HTTPS_by_default
 discussion too]
 
 On 13 June 2015 at 03:05, Habib M'henni habib.mhe...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 This is really fantastic.
 
 Thanks,
 
 Habib
 
 Le 12 juin 2015 21:22:26 CET, Juliet Barbara jbarb...@wikimedia.org a
 écrit :
 The Wikimedia Foundation is pleased to announce that we have begun the
 transition of the Wikimedia projects and sites to the secure HTTPS
 protocol. You may have seen our blog post from this morning; it has
 also
 been posted to relevant Village Pumps (Technical).
 
 This post is available online here:
 
 https://blog.wikimedia.org/2015/06/12/securing-wikimedia-sites-with-https/
 
 Securing access to Wikimedia sites with HTTPS
 
 BY YANA WELINDER https://blog.wikimedia.org/author/ywelinder/,
 VICTORIA
 BARANETSKY https://blog.wikimedia.org/author/victoria-baranetsky/ AND
 BRANDON
 BLACK https://blog.wikimedia.org/author/brandon-black/ ON JUNE 12TH
 
 
 To be truly free, access to knowledge must be secure and uncensored. At
 the
 Wikimedia Foundation, we believe that you should be able to use
 Wikipedia
 and the Wikimedia sites without sacrificing privacy or safety.
 
 Today, we’re happy to announce that we are in the process of
 implementing
 HTTPS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTPS to encrypt all Wikimedia
 traffic. We will also use HTTP Strict Transport Security
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTP_Strict_Transport_Security (HSTS)
 to
 protect against efforts to ‘break’ HTTPS and intercept traffic. With
 this
 change, the nearly half a billion people who rely on Wikipedia and its
 sister projects every month will be able to share in the world’s
 knowledge
 more securely.
 
 The HTTPS protocol creates an encrypted connection between your
 computer
 and Wikimedia sites to ensure the security and integrity of data you
 transmit. Encryption makes it more difficult for governments and other
 third parties to monitor your traffic. It also makes it harder for
 Internet
 Service Providers (ISPs) to censor access to specific Wikipedia
 articles
 and other information.
 
 HTTPS is not new to Wikimedia sites. Since 2011, we have been working
 on
 establishing the infrastructure and technical requirements, and
 understanding the policy and community implications of HTTPS for all
 Wikimedia traffic, with the ultimate goal of making it available to all
 users. In fact, for the past four years
 
 https://blog.wikimedia.org/2011/10/03/native-https-support-enabled-for-all-wikimedia-foundation-wikis/
 ,
 Wikimedia users could access our sites with HTTPS manually, through
 HTTPS
 Everywhere https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere, and when directed to
 our
 sites from major search engines. Additionally, all logged in users
 
 https://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/08/28/https-default-logged-in-users-wikimedia-sites/
 
 have been accessing via HTTPS since 2013.
 
 Over the last few years, increasing concerns about government
 surveillance
 prompted members of the Wikimedia community to push
 https://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/08/01/future-https-wikimedia-projects/
 for more broad protection through HTTPS. We agreed, and made this
 transition a priority for our policy and engineering teams.
 
 
 We believe encryption makes the web stronger for everyone. In a world
 where
 mass surveillance has become a serious threat to intellectual freedom,
 secure connections are essential for protecting users around the world.
 Without encryption, governments can more easily surveil sensitive
 information, creating a chilling effect, and deterring participation,
 or in
 extreme cases they can isolate or discipline citizens. Accounts may
 also be
 hijacked, pages may be censored, other security flaws could expose
 sensitive user information and communications. Because of these
 circumstances, we believe that the time for HTTPS for all Wikimedia
 traffic
 is now. We encourage others to join us as we move forward with this
 commitment.
 
 The technical challenges of migrating to HTTPS
 
 HTTPS migration for one of the world’s most popular websites can be
 complicated. For us, this process 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Securing access to Wikimedia sites with HTTPS

2015-06-14 Thread geni
On 14 June 2015 at 05:21, Comet styles cometsty...@gmail.com wrote:

 China and Iran blocks https (and WMF thinks https is more secure than
 http when it can be EASILY blocked lol)

China is currently blocking HTTP and has done so quite frequently. The
ability to block is largely unrelated to security.



 so people in these countries
 used wikipedia on http, so some here think that these countries are
 spying on them by forcing them to use http, but that https block in
 this countries was NOT to target wikipedia, it was to target social
 networking sites and  american based email sites like yahoo and gmail
 etc..but now by moving to HTTPS, we have now become a target for those
 countries..well done..


That doesn't make sense. HTTPs doesn't hide the domain. The country can
still tell that someone is visiting wikipedia rather than say facebook.
What becomes more difficult is telling what a person is viewing on
wikipedia.



 and to add to that, people who used
 wikipedia in those countries to find the truth about whats happening
 in their country and other regions can no longer do so since its
 blocked..Well Done again WMF..


Well actually no they couldn't if they had a government with active
blocking measures. With HTTP traffic governments and ISPs can (and did)
block individual pages that they don't like.




 Someone has to be fired for this.


That would seem to be something of an over reaction even if you disagree
with the decision.

-- 
geni
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Languages] Wikipedia article per speaker

2015-06-14 Thread Amir E. Aharoni
Dry article creation with little actual community interaction like
discussions, arguments and reverts, is problematic, but it does have one
overlooked advantage, which I myself didn't quite realize just a few months
ago: Creating a lot of texts that are known to be corresponding (a.k.a.
parallel) can be used by machine translation developers to create
statistical MT engines. When an engine exists, it may make translation of
more articles easier and faster.

Creating enough articles to bootstrap MT can be a goal for a content
creation project. I'm not sure how many is enough - 10,000?..

And either I missed it, or nobody mentioned it yet, but ahem ahem ahem
ContentTranslation. It is already helping Wikipedias in minorized languages
to create a lot of meaningful articles more easily, and with future
features like task lists and suggestions, it will be possible to use it for
tracking success conveniently.
בתאריך 8 ביוני 2015 01:23,‏ Milos Rancic mill...@gmail.com כתב:

 When you get data, at some point of time you start thinking about
 quite fringe comparisons. But that could actually give some useful
 conclusions, like this time it did [1].

 We did the next:
 * Used the number of primary speakers from Ethnologue. (Erik Zachte is
 using approximate number of primary + secondary speakers; that could
 be good for correction of this data.)
 * Categorized languages according to the logarithmic number of
 speakers: =10k, =100k, =1M, =10M, =100M.
 * Took the number of articles of Wikipedia in particular language and
 created ration (number of articles / number of speakers).
 * This list is consisted just of languages with Ethnologue status 1
 (national), 2 (provincial) or 3 (wider communication). In fact, we
 have a lot of projects (more than 100) with worse language status; a
 number of them are actually threatened or even on the edge of
 extinction.

 Those are the preliminary results and I will definitely have to pass
 through all the numbers. I fixed manually some serious errors, like
 not having English Wikipedia itself inside of data :D

 Putting the languages into the logarithmic categories proved to be
 useful, as we are now able to compare the Wikipedias according to
 their gross capacity (numbers of speakers). I suppose somebody well
 introduced into statistics could even create the function which could
 be used to check how good one project stays, no matter of those strict
 categories.

 It's obvious that as more speakers one language has, it's harder to
 the community to follow the ratio.

 So, the winners per category are:
 1) = 1k: Hawaiian, ratio 0.96900
 2) = 10k: Mirandese, ratio 0.18073
 3) = 100k: Basque, ratio 0.38061
 4) = 1M: Swedish, ratio 0.21381
 5) = 10M: Dutch, ratio 0.08305
 6) = 100M: English, ratio 0.01447

 However, keep in mind that we removed languages not inside categories
 1, 2 or 3. That affected =10k languages, as, for example, Upper
 Sorbian stays much better than Mirandese (0.67). (Will fix it while
 creating the full report. Obviously, in this case logarithmic
 categories of numbers of speakers are much more important than what's
 the state of the language.)

 It's obvious that we could draw the line between 1:1 for 1-10k
 speakers to 10:1 for =100M speakers. But, again, I would like to get
 input of somebody more competent.

 One very important category is missing here and it's about the level
 of development of the speakers. That could be added: GDP/PPP per
 capita for spoken country or countries would be useful as measurement.
 And I suppose somebody with statistical knowledge would be able to
 give us the number which would have meaning ability to create
 Wikipedia article.

 Completed in such way, we'd be able to measure the success of
 particular Wikimedia groups and organizations. OK. Articles per
 speaker are not the only way to do so, but we could use other
 parameters, as well: number of new/active/very active editors etc. And
 we could put it into time scale.

 I'll make some other results. And to remind: I'd like to have the
 formula to count ability to create Wikipedia article and then to
 produce level of particular community success in creating Wikipedia
 articles. And, of course, to implement it for editors.

 [1]
 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1TYyhETevEJ5MhfRheRn-aGc4cs_6k45Gwk_ic14TXY4/edit?usp=sharing

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Languages] Wikipedia article per speaker

2015-06-14 Thread Milos Rancic
On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 5:17 PM, Amir E. Aharoni
amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il wrote:
 And either I missed it, or nobody mentioned it yet, but ahem ahem ahem
 ContentTranslation. It is already helping Wikipedias in minorized languages
 to create a lot of meaningful articles more easily, and with future features
 like task lists and suggestions, it will be possible to use it for tracking
 success conveniently.

Just a short note here... The complexity of the task, which I think I
comprehend, is so significant, that I made the lamest mistake from my
own perspective. Please note that the page Names of Wikimedia
languages [1] assumes that there is only one variant of Serbian
(although some languages have full four written varieties in Serbian:
Немачка / Nemačka / Њемачка / Njemačka).

So, yes, ContentTranslation. (To be honest, one of my priorities
should be to actually see how it works...) Besides the tools (and I
think there are some other tools, as well), there is a lot of
documentation, which should be gathered inside of one user friendly
howto.

Creating correlations between Wikimedia projects data and data about
languages is not a simple task. In relation to the languages, we know
which information we need, but we often don't have enough of data; in
relation to Wikimedia, we have data, but we often don't know what to
do with it. And the most important danger of dealing with such sets is
not to have enough data and don't know what to do with it.

While the lack of reliable data about languages could be fixed through
necessary approximations, while searching for more relevant data, the
part which says that we should know what we should do with data could
be easily fixed by sharing the ideas here. That's the main reason why
I am sharing here work in progress.

(Now back to linking languages: 208th Wikipedia edition by size,
Karachay-Balkar...)

[1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Names_of_Wikimedia_languages

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Securing access to Wikimedia sites with HTTPS

2015-06-14 Thread Yana Welinder
Hi all,

Our understanding is that there is currently no country where only HTTPS
access to Wikipedia is blocked. In Iran
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_of_Wikipedia#Iran, the
government appears to have been blocking select Wikipedia articles at
different times.[1] The Great Firewall of China
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_of_Wikipedia#China has also been
blocking select articles on Chinese and English Wikipedia.[2] While it
previously blocked all HTTPS access to Chinese Wikipedia, that block has
more recently been extended to HTTP access as well. The transition to HTTPS
by default therefore shouldn't block anyone's access to all of Wikipedia
due to censorship. Rather it should help prevent censorship of select
Wikipedia articles, which we know is a problem in different parts of the
world.

I should also mention that while we try to be as transparent as possible in
all our work (including holding community consultations around all major
legal policies and providing frequent updates on our work), there are very
limited situations where public discussions could actually hurt free access
to Wikipedia. If you have thoughts about the evolving censorship landscape,
feel free to email me directly, if possible via encrypted email.

With respect to Wikipedia Zero, we have been working with mobile carriers
for over a year to make sure that they are able to provide access free of
data charges over HTTPS. For many carriers, this required them to adjust
the technical implementation of how they waive data charges. We are now
finally ready to transition Wikipedia Zero access to HTTPS by default.

Best,
Yana

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_of_Wikipedia#Iran
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_of_Wikipedia#China

On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 6:27 AM, Tanweer Morshed wiki.tanw...@gmail.com
wrote:

 But won't the people in Iran or China would be able to access the Wikimedia
 sites through http instead of https? And what about accessing through https
 within Wikipedia Zero? Is cost-free access available through https?

 On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 12:54 PM, geni geni...@gmail.com wrote:

  On 14 June 2015 at 05:21, Comet styles cometsty...@gmail.com wrote:
 
   China and Iran blocks https (and WMF thinks https is more secure than
   http when it can be EASILY blocked lol)
 
  China is currently blocking HTTP and has done so quite frequently. The
  ability to block is largely unrelated to security.
 
 
 
   so people in these countries
   used wikipedia on http, so some here think that these countries are
   spying on them by forcing them to use http, but that https block in
   this countries was NOT to target wikipedia, it was to target social
   networking sites and  american based email sites like yahoo and gmail
   etc..but now by moving to HTTPS, we have now become a target for those
   countries..well done..
 
 
  That doesn't make sense. HTTPs doesn't hide the domain. The country can
  still tell that someone is visiting wikipedia rather than say facebook.
  What becomes more difficult is telling what a person is viewing on
  wikipedia.
 
 
 
   and to add to that, people who used
   wikipedia in those countries to find the truth about whats happening
   in their country and other regions can no longer do so since its
   blocked..Well Done again WMF..
 
 
  Well actually no they couldn't if they had a government with active
  blocking measures. With HTTP traffic governments and ISPs can (and did)
  block individual pages that they don't like.
 
 
 
  
   Someone has to be fired for this.
  
  
  That would seem to be something of an over reaction even if you disagree
  with the decision.
 
  --
  geni
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415.839.6885 ext. 6867
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NOTICE: This message may be confidential or legally privileged. If you have
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As an attorney for the Wikimedia Foundation, for legal/ethical reasons I
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volunteers, or staff members in their personal capacity. In other words,
IANYL 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Languages] Wikipedia article per speaker

2015-06-14 Thread Milos Rancic
On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 5:38 PM, Milos Rancic mill...@gmail.com wrote:
 One more lame mistake: It's not about countries, but about languages.
 Thus: немачки, njemački, њемачки, njemački,

Khm... немачки, nemački, њемачки, njemački,
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Languages] Wikipedia article per speaker

2015-06-14 Thread Milos Rancic
On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 5:35 PM, Milos Rancic mill...@gmail.com wrote:
 Just a short note here... The complexity of the task, which I think I
 comprehend, is so significant, that I made the lamest mistake from my
 own perspective. Please note that the page Names of Wikimedia
 languages [1] assumes that there is only one variant of Serbian
 (although some languages have full four written varieties in Serbian:
 Немачка / Nemačka / Њемачка / Njemačka).

One more lame mistake: It's not about countries, but about languages.
Thus: немачки, njemački, њемачки, njemački,

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[Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Securing access to Wikimedia sites with HTTPS

2015-06-14 Thread Brian Wolff
I should also mention that while we try to be as transparent as possible in
all our work (including holding community consultations around all major
legal policies and providing frequent updates on our work), there are very
limited situations where public discussions could actually hurt free access
to Wikipedia. If you have thoughts about the evolving censorship landscape,
feel free to email me directly, if possible via encrypted email.

I find the secrecy surrounding the HTTPS rollout to be odd (To put it mildly).

What are we worried about. A censor who follows wikimedia-l, but not
the press release the WMF issued?

All the technical details are public (The git repo is public. Not to
mention the whole fact we're using https is going to be painfully
obvious when you visit the site, and its in https). We aren't doing
anything surprising, we are in the process of simply following what
many people consider best practices. We've publicly stated our
intention to do this for years now. And its pretty obvious what the
next steps of the deployment are going to be. The only thing really
being kept secret is the timetable, and which specific projects are up
next.

--
bawolff

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