Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wiki Loves Monuments] Wiki Loves Monuments in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising
Hello everyone. Sorry for the long mail but we wanted to explain the situation for Wikimedia Italia. The conversation is going on and it's better to clear some important points. In the second week of August Wikimedia Italia has been contacted by Kalliope Tsouroupidou and later by Jessica Robell, who explained that the Wikimedia Foundation was planning to have a fundraising campaign in Italy in September. We have been surprised by that, since Wiki Loves Monuments is well-known to run in September, and it has been like that for years. Moreover, there has been a similar clash in 2014: we discussed for several days, and in the end we reached a compromise, and the FR banners went live just for the last days. It was not perfect, but we had WLM banners for almost all September. This year the clash is on the whole month of September. Given the history, and the very fact that Wikimedia Italia has planned WLM and written so in the FDC application, we feel that WMIT has not been negligible in matters of communication. We are not *happy* with the situation, the very existence of the clash, the fact that all this appeared in the middle of August, while we were all on holiday and just few weeks before the beginning of WLM. We just decided not to pick up a fight, as we believe in constructive conversation and negotiation. The agreement we reached is very painful for WMIT and WLM: it's just better than not having the banners at all, or to have them for just a few days in the middle of September. Conversations with the FR team has been firm, but polite: this does not mean that we are happy about what is happening. Moreover, we will have to discuss with FDC to renegotiate expected results for WLM in 2015. Having the fundraising campaign in September in Italy has a clear negative impact on Wiki Loves Monuments, the largest project of Wikimedia Italia. This will not only likely reduce the number of participants and uploaded pictures, but will also put us in a difficult position in front of our sponsors and partners, including 200+ municipalities, 100+ cultural institutions, and some major partners, like FIAF (the Federation of Italian photographers' associations), ICOM (the International Council of Museums), the Toscana Foto Festival (a major photo festival), Touring Club Italiano (the largest Italian touristic association), and others. WMIT spends thousands of euros in WLM each year - not because we waste money, but because we have higher stakes. This year, we will have in the Italian Jury international renowned photographers like (prabably: yet to be confirmed) Steve McCurry ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_McCurry) and Franco Fontana ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco_Fontana). This year, in June, we were received by several politicians from the Italian Parliament for an official meeting regarding the law we are fighting as WMIT. Because of the specific challenges we face, WLM in Italy goes beyond being a photographic competition and is also an opportunity to create relationships and advocate for the freedom of taking pictures of monuments. Italy does not have freedom of panorama. Worst, Italy does not have freedom of panorama for any kind of monuments, even if copyright has expired. We need to ask for permission to make pictures of monuments. For. Every. Monument. We have to create lists of monuments to be photographed. There is no official list of monuments in Italy. There is *extensive* documentation here: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Italian_cultural_heritage_on_the_Wikimedia_projects This is very important to know to put in perspective WLM Italy stats: http://stats.wikilovesmonuments.cl/italy. As an example, it is the reason why we have so many participants who contribute for few pics each. In 2014 alone, we had 1038 uploaders, but we were only 6th in terms of number of photos. The global fundraising is essential to our movement. It funds Wikipedia operations, software development, the Wikimedia Foundation, many chapters and affiliates, and, of course, also Wiki Loves Monuments (even tough in Italy it is primarily funded from other sources). The global fundraising is meant to support the Wikimedia movement: but, for this very reason, it is a pity to have it clashing to one of the very activities it is meant to support. Especially since we are not talking about a 2 hours editathon in a small library in the middle of nowhere, but about an international competition who ended up in the Guinnes World Records, bringing thousands of pictures to the Wikimedia projects. We understand that fundraising is not an easy job, especially when it is done on a global level. Yet we feel obliged to use donors money to build and deliver the best projects we can: firstly out of respect for all the people who decided to donate their time, their money or their career to the movement; secondly because a badly executed projects could also have a negative impact on the next fundraising campaigns. We are all part of the
[Wikimedia-l] Imminent block of access to Wikipedia in Russia
Today, the Russian Federal Service for Supervision in the Sphere of Telecom, Information Technologies and Mass Communications instructed all Russian internet providers to block all user access to Wikipedia. All involved parties are aware of the development. I am not sure whether only ru.wikipedia.org will be blocked, or all WMF projects. In the latter case, if you are going to travel to Russia, you will need to gen an IP exempt flag in advance in the projects you are going to edit. Cheers Yaroslav ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Imminent block of access to Wikipedia in Russia
Greetings, there is a note online at the Roskomnadzor (the russian agency in question) web site referring to the block: http://rkn.gov.ru/news/rsoc/news34253.htm Mathias On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 5:24 PM, Yaroslav M. Blanter pute...@mccme.ru wrote: Today, the Russian Federal Service for Supervision in the Sphere of Telecom, Information Technologies and Mass Communications instructed all Russian internet providers to block all user access to Wikipedia. All involved parties are aware of the development. I am not sure whether only ru.wikipedia.org will be blocked, or all WMF projects. In the latter case, if you are going to travel to Russia, you will need to gen an IP exempt flag in advance in the projects you are going to edit. Cheers Yaroslav ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Imminent block of access to Wikipedia in Russia
Does anyone know more about the article on an illegal drug they are referring to? Sounds like it’s just Russian Wikipedia and not the other languages or projects. Anyone able to verify? -greg On Aug 24, 2015, at 11:43 AM, Mathias Schindler mathias.schind...@gmail.com wrote: Greetings, there is a note online at the Roskomnadzor (the russian agency in question) web site referring to the block: http://rkn.gov.ru/news/rsoc/news34253.htm Mathias On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 5:24 PM, Yaroslav M. Blanter pute...@mccme.ru wrote: Today, the Russian Federal Service for Supervision in the Sphere of Telecom, Information Technologies and Mass Communications instructed all Russian internet providers to block all user access to Wikipedia. All involved parties are aware of the development. I am not sure whether only ru.wikipedia.org will be blocked, or all WMF projects. In the latter case, if you are going to travel to Russia, you will need to gen an IP exempt flag in advance in the projects you are going to edit. Cheers Yaroslav ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Imminent block of access to Wikipedia in Russia
On 2015-08-24 17:46, Gregory Varnum wrote: Does anyone know more about the article on an illegal drug they are referring to? Sounds like it’s just Russian Wikipedia and not the other languages or projects. Anyone able to verify? -greg This is the article: https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A7%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%81_%28%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%BA%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B8%D1%87%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B5_%D0%B2%D0%B5%D1%89%D0%B5%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B2%D0%BE%29 (it was moved from the origibal location, which is now a dab). The intention of the agency was to only block access to this page. What they will be actually blocking depends on how the https routing works. I do not know, it is either only the Russian Wikipedia, or all WMF projects. Cheers Yaroslav ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wiki Loves Monuments in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising
2015-08-18 21:42 GMT+03:00 Romaine Wiki romaine.w...@gmail.com: Wiki Loves Monuments depends for at least 99% on the banner. It's more like 85-90% in my experience, but still a lot. *What is the situation?* * The fundraising team plans to have a fundraising banner in Italy during the month September. * The local team of Wiki Loves Monuments in Italy is organising the contest in Italy and needs a banner as well. Why not use the sitenotice? Strainu ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wiki Loves Monuments] Wiki Loves Monuments in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising
Il giorno lun, 24/08/2015 alle 13.08 +0200, Jane Darnell ha scritto: What I meant to say is that though the impact of no banner might be great, it is not so great as it would be for those countries who can attract newbies to the competition. The Italian situation is so complicated that I don't think their proportion of casual uploaders/experienced uploaders is the same as for other countries, ergo, the banner would be less of an issue, though still an issue. In any country you have a list of monuments and you can submit a picture of one of those monuments. In Italy it's exactly the same. The problem lies in building the list of monuments! But for the users, it is not more difficult than in any other country. What we do is asking to the organizations that have the rights on the monuments to provide an authorization for uploading the pictures on Commons during the contest. The participants to the contest do not have any specific work to do related to this. Laurentius ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wiki Loves Monuments] Wiki Loves Monuments in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising
Hi Jane, Yes, Italy is one of those odd countries without freedom of panorama. The copyright on photos of monuments is held by local governments. Wikimedia Italy has as large task to get permission from these hundreds/thousands local administrations for the photos uploaded. Therefore organising Wiki Loves Monuments in Italy is a very very heavy and extensive task in comparison with other countries. The Italian Wiki Loves Monuments team does a great job in getting all the permissions. You can't derive from the situation that there is no FoP, that thus the impact won't be too great. Te kort door de bocht. Romaine 2015-08-24 12:19 GMT+02:00 Jane Darnell jane...@gmail.com: Isn't Italy one of those odd European countries that won't allow freedom of panorama? Surely the impact won't be too great, considering that the type of people who can participate are at least savvy enough to understand the oddities of the Italian monuments situation Commons. Italy was late to join the WLM party for this reason, and I understand it is only specific municipalities that take part now. On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 11:31 AM, Romaine Wiki romaine.w...@gmail.com wrote: Giving Wiki Loves Monuments the worst possible situation is certainly not a compromise, but a situation in what users from the community are crushed under the weight of the foundation. A compromise is, according to the dictionary, a situation in what both parties concede something. In this case, WLM concedes everything and WMF nothing. I have seen already users asking if this will be the next big clash between WMF and the community, after the VisualEditor, MediaViewer, Superprotect and other issues. I personally hope not. You are of course free to think how much negative impact it will have, but I base my numbers on the statistics from the past years. We have seen each time a big influence from conflicting banners or outage. We have followed the statistics and the impact of past years and we have learned from the past that it has a big impact we certainly should not underestimate. And I disagree with your statement that there always will be a clash somewhere. There is no need for a clash if people work together on the planning. September is not the only month in autumn, and not all countries are occupied by Wiki Loves Monuments. Suggesting otherwise are fairy tales. This is one of the strongest examples of bad planning I have seen in all the years. Of every country that organises Wiki Loves Monuments, they have picked the worst possible country. You reduce this problem to just a number of emotive emails, with what you make clear you missed the essence of this case. Romaine 2015-08-24 10:53 GMT+02:00 Chris Keating chriskeatingw...@gmail.com: Hi Romaine, And the outcome is ridiculous. This is not a compromise. The Italian WLM team has been crashed under the weight and preponderance of the Wikimedia Foundation. Well - it *is* a compromise. It isn't what you want and I think I understand your reasons for thinking it will have a very big impact. I know from plenty of past experience of being a volunteer disagreeing with WMF staff how frustrating this is (though actually I think the impact on WLM will be less than you expect in this case). But it is plainly not the case that the WMF has just blundered ahead with what it was going to do anyway. And even if WMF were not involved at all and there were some other method of allocating banner space, if Autumn has the peak fundraising potential and is when WLM happens, there will always be some kind of clash somewhere, and someone or other will not get what they want. No number of emotive emails will change that. Regards, Chris ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/guidelineswikimedi...@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list wikilovesmonume...@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org ___ Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list wikilovesmonume...@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wiki Loves Monuments] Wiki Loves Monuments in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising
I think you misunderstand me. What I meant to say is that though the impact of no banner might be great, it is not so great as it would be for those countries who can attract newbies to the competition. The Italian situation is so complicated that I don't think their proportion of casual uploaders/experienced uploaders is the same as for other countries, ergo, the banner would be less of an issue, though still an issue. On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 12:54 PM, Romaine Wiki romaine.w...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Jane, Yes, Italy is one of those odd countries without freedom of panorama. The copyright on photos of monuments is held by local governments. Wikimedia Italy has as large task to get permission from these hundreds/thousands local administrations for the photos uploaded. Therefore organising Wiki Loves Monuments in Italy is a very very heavy and extensive task in comparison with other countries. The Italian Wiki Loves Monuments team does a great job in getting all the permissions. You can't derive from the situation that there is no FoP, that thus the impact won't be too great. Te kort door de bocht. Romaine 2015-08-24 12:19 GMT+02:00 Jane Darnell jane...@gmail.com: Isn't Italy one of those odd European countries that won't allow freedom of panorama? Surely the impact won't be too great, considering that the type of people who can participate are at least savvy enough to understand the oddities of the Italian monuments situation Commons. Italy was late to join the WLM party for this reason, and I understand it is only specific municipalities that take part now. On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 11:31 AM, Romaine Wiki romaine.w...@gmail.com wrote: Giving Wiki Loves Monuments the worst possible situation is certainly not a compromise, but a situation in what users from the community are crushed under the weight of the foundation. A compromise is, according to the dictionary, a situation in what both parties concede something. In this case, WLM concedes everything and WMF nothing. I have seen already users asking if this will be the next big clash between WMF and the community, after the VisualEditor, MediaViewer, Superprotect and other issues. I personally hope not. You are of course free to think how much negative impact it will have, but I base my numbers on the statistics from the past years. We have seen each time a big influence from conflicting banners or outage. We have followed the statistics and the impact of past years and we have learned from the past that it has a big impact we certainly should not underestimate. And I disagree with your statement that there always will be a clash somewhere. There is no need for a clash if people work together on the planning. September is not the only month in autumn, and not all countries are occupied by Wiki Loves Monuments. Suggesting otherwise are fairy tales. This is one of the strongest examples of bad planning I have seen in all the years. Of every country that organises Wiki Loves Monuments, they have picked the worst possible country. You reduce this problem to just a number of emotive emails, with what you make clear you missed the essence of this case. Romaine 2015-08-24 10:53 GMT+02:00 Chris Keating chriskeatingw...@gmail.com: Hi Romaine, And the outcome is ridiculous. This is not a compromise. The Italian WLM team has been crashed under the weight and preponderance of the Wikimedia Foundation. Well - it *is* a compromise. It isn't what you want and I think I understand your reasons for thinking it will have a very big impact. I know from plenty of past experience of being a volunteer disagreeing with WMF staff how frustrating this is (though actually I think the impact on WLM will be less than you expect in this case). But it is plainly not the case that the WMF has just blundered ahead with what it was going to do anyway. And even if WMF were not involved at all and there were some other method of allocating banner space, if Autumn has the peak fundraising potential and is when WLM happens, there will always be some kind of clash somewhere, and someone or other will not get what they want. No number of emotive emails will change that. Regards, Chris ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/guidelineswikimedi...@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list wikilovesmonume...@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org ___ Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list
Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wiki Loves Monuments] Wiki Loves Monuments in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising
Hi Romaine, And the outcome is ridiculous. This is not a compromise. The Italian WLM team has been crashed under the weight and preponderance of the Wikimedia Foundation. Well - it *is* a compromise. It isn't what you want and I think I understand your reasons for thinking it will have a very big impact. I know from plenty of past experience of being a volunteer disagreeing with WMF staff how frustrating this is (though actually I think the impact on WLM will be less than you expect in this case). But it is plainly not the case that the WMF has just blundered ahead with what it was going to do anyway. And even if WMF were not involved at all and there were some other method of allocating banner space, if Autumn has the peak fundraising potential and is when WLM happens, there will always be some kind of clash somewhere, and someone or other will not get what they want. No number of emotive emails will change that. Regards, Chris ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wiki Loves Monuments] Wiki Loves Monuments in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising
Giving Wiki Loves Monuments the worst possible situation is certainly not a compromise, but a situation in what users from the community are crushed under the weight of the foundation. A compromise is, according to the dictionary, a situation in what both parties concede something. In this case, WLM concedes everything and WMF nothing. I have seen already users asking if this will be the next big clash between WMF and the community, after the VisualEditor, MediaViewer, Superprotect and other issues. I personally hope not. You are of course free to think how much negative impact it will have, but I base my numbers on the statistics from the past years. We have seen each time a big influence from conflicting banners or outage. We have followed the statistics and the impact of past years and we have learned from the past that it has a big impact we certainly should not underestimate. And I disagree with your statement that there always will be a clash somewhere. There is no need for a clash if people work together on the planning. September is not the only month in autumn, and not all countries are occupied by Wiki Loves Monuments. Suggesting otherwise are fairy tales. This is one of the strongest examples of bad planning I have seen in all the years. Of every country that organises Wiki Loves Monuments, they have picked the worst possible country. You reduce this problem to just a number of emotive emails, with what you make clear you missed the essence of this case. Romaine 2015-08-24 10:53 GMT+02:00 Chris Keating chriskeatingw...@gmail.com: Hi Romaine, And the outcome is ridiculous. This is not a compromise. The Italian WLM team has been crashed under the weight and preponderance of the Wikimedia Foundation. Well - it *is* a compromise. It isn't what you want and I think I understand your reasons for thinking it will have a very big impact. I know from plenty of past experience of being a volunteer disagreeing with WMF staff how frustrating this is (though actually I think the impact on WLM will be less than you expect in this case). But it is plainly not the case that the WMF has just blundered ahead with what it was going to do anyway. And even if WMF were not involved at all and there were some other method of allocating banner space, if Autumn has the peak fundraising potential and is when WLM happens, there will always be some kind of clash somewhere, and someone or other will not get what they want. No number of emotive emails will change that. Regards, Chris ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wiki Loves Monuments] Wiki Loves Monuments in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising
I am not sure how the Italian WLM works, but I believe they do still attract newbies to the competition. I am not sure about their proportion of casual uploaders/experienced uploaders but we haven't seen figures either way there. Richard Symonds Wikimedia UK 0207 065 0992 Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). *Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.* On 24 August 2015 at 12:08, Jane Darnell jane...@gmail.com wrote: I think you misunderstand me. What I meant to say is that though the impact of no banner might be great, it is not so great as it would be for those countries who can attract newbies to the competition. The Italian situation is so complicated that I don't think their proportion of casual uploaders/experienced uploaders is the same as for other countries, ergo, the banner would be less of an issue, though still an issue. On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 12:54 PM, Romaine Wiki romaine.w...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Jane, Yes, Italy is one of those odd countries without freedom of panorama. The copyright on photos of monuments is held by local governments. Wikimedia Italy has as large task to get permission from these hundreds/thousands local administrations for the photos uploaded. Therefore organising Wiki Loves Monuments in Italy is a very very heavy and extensive task in comparison with other countries. The Italian Wiki Loves Monuments team does a great job in getting all the permissions. You can't derive from the situation that there is no FoP, that thus the impact won't be too great. Te kort door de bocht. Romaine 2015-08-24 12:19 GMT+02:00 Jane Darnell jane...@gmail.com: Isn't Italy one of those odd European countries that won't allow freedom of panorama? Surely the impact won't be too great, considering that the type of people who can participate are at least savvy enough to understand the oddities of the Italian monuments situation Commons. Italy was late to join the WLM party for this reason, and I understand it is only specific municipalities that take part now. On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 11:31 AM, Romaine Wiki romaine.w...@gmail.com wrote: Giving Wiki Loves Monuments the worst possible situation is certainly not a compromise, but a situation in what users from the community are crushed under the weight of the foundation. A compromise is, according to the dictionary, a situation in what both parties concede something. In this case, WLM concedes everything and WMF nothing. I have seen already users asking if this will be the next big clash between WMF and the community, after the VisualEditor, MediaViewer, Superprotect and other issues. I personally hope not. You are of course free to think how much negative impact it will have, but I base my numbers on the statistics from the past years. We have seen each time a big influence from conflicting banners or outage. We have followed the statistics and the impact of past years and we have learned from the past that it has a big impact we certainly should not underestimate. And I disagree with your statement that there always will be a clash somewhere. There is no need for a clash if people work together on the planning. September is not the only month in autumn, and not all countries are occupied by Wiki Loves Monuments. Suggesting otherwise are fairy tales. This is one of the strongest examples of bad planning I have seen in all the years. Of every country that organises Wiki Loves Monuments, they have picked the worst possible country. You reduce this problem to just a number of emotive emails, with what you make clear you missed the essence of this case. Romaine 2015-08-24 10:53 GMT+02:00 Chris Keating chriskeatingw...@gmail.com: Hi Romaine, And the outcome is ridiculous. This is not a compromise. The Italian WLM team has been crashed under the weight and preponderance of the Wikimedia Foundation. Well - it *is* a compromise. It isn't what you want and I think I understand your reasons for thinking it will have a very big impact. I know from plenty of past experience of being a volunteer disagreeing with WMF staff how frustrating this is (though actually I think the impact on WLM will be less than you expect in this case). But it is plainly not the case that the WMF has just blundered ahead with what it was going to do anyway. And even if WMF were not involved at all and there were some other method of allocating banner space,
Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wiki Loves Monuments] Wiki Loves Monuments in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising
Hi Jane, The situation is more complicated for the organisers, yes. But for participants in the contest it is not complicated. The Italian WLM team has organised it in such way it is easy to participate. Greetings, Romaine 2015-08-24 13:08 GMT+02:00 Jane Darnell jane...@gmail.com: I think you misunderstand me. What I meant to say is that though the impact of no banner might be great, it is not so great as it would be for those countries who can attract newbies to the competition. The Italian situation is so complicated that I don't think their proportion of casual uploaders/experienced uploaders is the same as for other countries, ergo, the banner would be less of an issue, though still an issue. On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 12:54 PM, Romaine Wiki romaine.w...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Jane, Yes, Italy is one of those odd countries without freedom of panorama. The copyright on photos of monuments is held by local governments. Wikimedia Italy has as large task to get permission from these hundreds/thousands local administrations for the photos uploaded. Therefore organising Wiki Loves Monuments in Italy is a very very heavy and extensive task in comparison with other countries. The Italian Wiki Loves Monuments team does a great job in getting all the permissions. You can't derive from the situation that there is no FoP, that thus the impact won't be too great. Te kort door de bocht. Romaine 2015-08-24 12:19 GMT+02:00 Jane Darnell jane...@gmail.com: Isn't Italy one of those odd European countries that won't allow freedom of panorama? Surely the impact won't be too great, considering that the type of people who can participate are at least savvy enough to understand the oddities of the Italian monuments situation Commons. Italy was late to join the WLM party for this reason, and I understand it is only specific municipalities that take part now. On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 11:31 AM, Romaine Wiki romaine.w...@gmail.com wrote: Giving Wiki Loves Monuments the worst possible situation is certainly not a compromise, but a situation in what users from the community are crushed under the weight of the foundation. A compromise is, according to the dictionary, a situation in what both parties concede something. In this case, WLM concedes everything and WMF nothing. I have seen already users asking if this will be the next big clash between WMF and the community, after the VisualEditor, MediaViewer, Superprotect and other issues. I personally hope not. You are of course free to think how much negative impact it will have, but I base my numbers on the statistics from the past years. We have seen each time a big influence from conflicting banners or outage. We have followed the statistics and the impact of past years and we have learned from the past that it has a big impact we certainly should not underestimate. And I disagree with your statement that there always will be a clash somewhere. There is no need for a clash if people work together on the planning. September is not the only month in autumn, and not all countries are occupied by Wiki Loves Monuments. Suggesting otherwise are fairy tales. This is one of the strongest examples of bad planning I have seen in all the years. Of every country that organises Wiki Loves Monuments, they have picked the worst possible country. You reduce this problem to just a number of emotive emails, with what you make clear you missed the essence of this case. Romaine 2015-08-24 10:53 GMT+02:00 Chris Keating chriskeatingw...@gmail.com: Hi Romaine, And the outcome is ridiculous. This is not a compromise. The Italian WLM team has been crashed under the weight and preponderance of the Wikimedia Foundation. Well - it *is* a compromise. It isn't what you want and I think I understand your reasons for thinking it will have a very big impact. I know from plenty of past experience of being a volunteer disagreeing with WMF staff how frustrating this is (though actually I think the impact on WLM will be less than you expect in this case). But it is plainly not the case that the WMF has just blundered ahead with what it was going to do anyway. And even if WMF were not involved at all and there were some other method of allocating banner space, if Autumn has the peak fundraising potential and is when WLM happens, there will always be some kind of clash somewhere, and someone or other will not get what they want. No number of emotive emails will change that. Regards, Chris ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/guidelineswikimedi...@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wiki Loves Monuments] Wiki Loves Monuments in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising
Not sure how to measure this, but it would be interesting for our stats if we COULD measure this. I define a casual uploader as someone who comes to the upload wizard through the WLM easy upload link from a Wikipedia page rather than some other way. On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 1:11 PM, Richard Symonds richard.symo...@wikimedia.org.uk wrote: I am not sure how the Italian WLM works, but I believe they do still attract newbies to the competition. I am not sure about their proportion of casual uploaders/experienced uploaders but we haven't seen figures either way there. Richard Symonds Wikimedia UK 0207 065 0992 Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). *Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.* On 24 August 2015 at 12:08, Jane Darnell jane...@gmail.com wrote: I think you misunderstand me. What I meant to say is that though the impact of no banner might be great, it is not so great as it would be for those countries who can attract newbies to the competition. The Italian situation is so complicated that I don't think their proportion of casual uploaders/experienced uploaders is the same as for other countries, ergo, the banner would be less of an issue, though still an issue. On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 12:54 PM, Romaine Wiki romaine.w...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Jane, Yes, Italy is one of those odd countries without freedom of panorama. The copyright on photos of monuments is held by local governments. Wikimedia Italy has as large task to get permission from these hundreds/thousands local administrations for the photos uploaded. Therefore organising Wiki Loves Monuments in Italy is a very very heavy and extensive task in comparison with other countries. The Italian Wiki Loves Monuments team does a great job in getting all the permissions. You can't derive from the situation that there is no FoP, that thus the impact won't be too great. Te kort door de bocht. Romaine 2015-08-24 12:19 GMT+02:00 Jane Darnell jane...@gmail.com: Isn't Italy one of those odd European countries that won't allow freedom of panorama? Surely the impact won't be too great, considering that the type of people who can participate are at least savvy enough to understand the oddities of the Italian monuments situation Commons. Italy was late to join the WLM party for this reason, and I understand it is only specific municipalities that take part now. On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 11:31 AM, Romaine Wiki romaine.w...@gmail.com wrote: Giving Wiki Loves Monuments the worst possible situation is certainly not a compromise, but a situation in what users from the community are crushed under the weight of the foundation. A compromise is, according to the dictionary, a situation in what both parties concede something. In this case, WLM concedes everything and WMF nothing. I have seen already users asking if this will be the next big clash between WMF and the community, after the VisualEditor, MediaViewer, Superprotect and other issues. I personally hope not. You are of course free to think how much negative impact it will have, but I base my numbers on the statistics from the past years. We have seen each time a big influence from conflicting banners or outage. We have followed the statistics and the impact of past years and we have learned from the past that it has a big impact we certainly should not underestimate. And I disagree with your statement that there always will be a clash somewhere. There is no need for a clash if people work together on the planning. September is not the only month in autumn, and not all countries are occupied by Wiki Loves Monuments. Suggesting otherwise are fairy tales. This is one of the strongest examples of bad planning I have seen in all the years. Of every country that organises Wiki Loves Monuments, they have picked the worst possible country. You reduce this problem to just a number of emotive emails, with what you make clear you missed the essence of this case. Romaine 2015-08-24 10:53 GMT+02:00 Chris Keating chriskeatingw...@gmail.com : Hi Romaine, And the outcome is ridiculous. This is not a compromise. The Italian WLM team has been crashed under the weight and preponderance of the Wikimedia Foundation. Well - it *is* a compromise. It isn't what you want and I think I understand your reasons for thinking it will have a very big impact. I know from plenty of past experience of being a
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Superprotect's first birthday
Thanks for the (single) use case: Trouble is it just pushes the question further down the road. inadequate for some compelling reason On 13/08/2015 09:25, Pine W wrote: A*few* legitimate use cases could be: *Superprotection by stewards of legally or technically sensitive pages, to prevent damage caused by a hijacked admin account. The theory here is that admin accounts are more numerous than steward accounts, so the liklihood of a successful admin account hijack may be higher. Superprotection would proactively limit possible damage. Admins doing routine maintenance work, or taking actions with community consent, could simply make a request for a temporary lift of superprotect by a steward or ask a steward to make an edit themselves. *Upon community request, superprotection of pages by a steward where those pages are the subject of wheel-warring among local admins. *Superprotection of a page by a steward for legal reasons at the request of WMF Legal, for example if a page is the subject of a legal dispute and normal full protection is inadequate for some compelling reason. None of this is an endorsement of WMF's first use of superprotect. I would prefer that if superprotect continues to exist as a tool, that it be in the hands of the stewards and not WMF directly. Pine ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Superprotect's first birthday
Not a good example. This could be a special page. On 11/08/2015 21:56, Risker wrote: There are situations where not even the administrators of a particular community should be allowed to edit a page. A good example would be the pages that describe the copyright and licensing of Wikimedia products. Individual communities cannot change that (it applies globally), and individual administrators should not modify it. If there is a problem with translation, that needs to be brought to the attention of the WMF, because there may be a similar problem with translation elsewhere. There are also some examples currently being discussed on the Wikitech-L list that may require significantly elevated levels of protection above 'all administrators on Project ABC', although they may call for another level of protection that can be customizable to allowing a much smaller group or specific individuals to be the only editors. Risker/Anne ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Imminent block of access to Wikipedia in Russia
I wonder if this is related to the recent blocking of reddit. http://www.vocativ.com/news/221534/the-story-behind-russias-reddit-shutdown/ On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 6:28 PM, Romaine Wiki romaine.w...@gmail.com wrote: To me the basic step in such a case like this is translating the article about the agency in more languages, so that people can get more background information. The article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Service_for_Supervision_in_the_Sphere_of_Telecom,_Information_Technologies_and_Mass_Communications Creating awareness starts with having a good article about the organisation in question. Romaine 2015-08-24 17:24 GMT+02:00 Yaroslav M. Blanter pute...@mccme.ru: Today, the Russian Federal Service for Supervision in the Sphere of Telecom, Information Technologies and Mass Communications instructed all Russian internet providers to block all user access to Wikipedia. All involved parties are aware of the development. I am not sure whether only ru.wikipedia.org will be blocked, or all WMF projects. In the latter case, if you are going to travel to Russia, you will need to gen an IP exempt flag in advance in the projects you are going to edit. Cheers Yaroslav ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe -- Lane Rasberry user:bluerasberry on Wikipedia 206.801.0814 l...@bluerasberry.com ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Imminent block of access to Wikipedia in Russia
On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 4:26 PM, Lane Rasberry l...@bluerasberry.com wrote: I wonder if this is related to the recent blocking of reddit. http://www.vocativ.com/news/221534/the-story-behind-russias-reddit-shutdown/ Same law of course, but there doesn't appear to be a direct connection. James ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Superprotect's first birthday
Using it for legal disputes is poor form. We had legal disputes before, and managed them with office actions. If you don't trust the admins not to purposefully post libel or copyvios, then super-protecting a page or two won't help. Moreover it implies that the Foundation can or will take action in these matters to override the community, which opens them up to charges of discrimination, favouritism, nepotism, cowardice, corruption or at least stupidity. On 11/08/2015 19:36, John Lewis wrote: Yes. It was used a few months ago to prevent editing the Germany item on Wikidata due to a very serious breaking issue. Also on several pages following legal disputes. Superprotect in my opinion if used correctly is an essential tool which can prevent legal and technical issues that can in theory cause wide disruption. John ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Superprotect's first birthday
No community would want to change documents issued by the WMF, if it did, the stewards would be crazy to do so. This is reaching. Why? On 11/08/2015 22:34, Risker wrote: However, stewards under their current process could very well find themselves in a situation where a community wants to do something, like change the (global) terms of use or the (global) interpretation of copyright policyat which point their current rules put them smack in the middle of the global community and WMF board that approved a global policy, and a local community that wants to have its own. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Imminent block of access to Wikipedia in Russia
To me the basic step in such a case like this is translating the article about the agency in more languages, so that people can get more background information. The article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Service_for_Supervision_in_the_Sphere_of_Telecom,_Information_Technologies_and_Mass_Communications Creating awareness starts with having a good article about the organisation in question. Romaine 2015-08-24 17:24 GMT+02:00 Yaroslav M. Blanter pute...@mccme.ru: Today, the Russian Federal Service for Supervision in the Sphere of Telecom, Information Technologies and Mass Communications instructed all Russian internet providers to block all user access to Wikipedia. All involved parties are aware of the development. I am not sure whether only ru.wikipedia.org will be blocked, or all WMF projects. In the latter case, if you are going to travel to Russia, you will need to gen an IP exempt flag in advance in the projects you are going to edit. Cheers Yaroslav ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe