[Wikimedia-l] IRC office hours: Shared hosting

2015-12-14 Thread Gilles Dubuc
As part of T113210 [1], which is a broader discussion on track for the
developer summit, I am hosting two IRC office hours back to back [2] on
December 21st from 20:00 UTC to 22:00 UTC.

The previous office hour [3] focused on ways to reconnect to the shared
hosting community. This time two very different topics will be discussed.

*The open questions in the descriptions below are by no means meant to be
exhaustive, nor are they expected to be fully answered by the end of those
office hours. They are just examples to clarify the context of the titles.*

*Shared hosting technical alternatives*

During the last office hour on the topic of non-technical mediawiki
installs, people seemed very eager to discuss new technical solutions that
could offer a viable alternative to shared hosting.

Could new technologies like containers allow for performance/cost ratios
comparable to shared hosting? If not, how big would the penalty be? How
much maintenance would we have to do to keep deployment on such platforms
up to date?

Shared hosting has always suffered from the fact that it's not used at the
WMF and therefore only maintained on a volunteer basis. How would things be
different with new tech?

*Shared hosting support definition*

Shared hosting usage is already a reality and we should do a better job
accounting for it. Currently mediawiki contributors have no visibility in
what should be supported and to what degree. Our browser support is graded
and very clear, meanwhile our server-side support is not:
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Compatibility

Should we model our server-side compatibility guidelines on the graded
system we have for browsers? If so, what would that look like? How could we
break down "shared hosting support" into more discreet server-side
capabilities?


[1] https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T113210
[2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours#Upcoming_office_hours
[3]
https://tools.wmflabs.org/meetbot/wikimedia-office/2015/wikimedia-office.2015-11-19-19.00.html
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Quality issues

2015-12-14 Thread Andreas Kolbe
On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 7:46 AM, Pete Forsyth  wrote:

> On Sun, Dec 13, 2015 at 4:02 PM, Andreas Kolbe  wrote:
>
> > But at the same time, Wikidata is supposed to inform the Wikipedias, as a
> > central data repository. This creates a mismatch between Wikidata's
> "early
> > days -- anything goes, let's just get content in, we'll sort it out
> later"
> > attitude and the relatively mature Wikipedias where editors insist on
> > sources for any new content added.
> >
> > This out-of-synch-ness is a real problem if you want Wikipedias to
> actually
> > use Wikidata content. Wikipedians will not accept content generation
> models
> > that take Wikipedia back to its bad old days where you could write
> anything
> > you liked without a source to back it up.
>
>
> Andreas, I think there's an important piece you're missing (or at least not
> explicitly acknlowledging) here.
>
> Very few of the Wikipedias are "relatively mature." To the extent Wikidata
> is meant to help Wikipedia, I believe it is meant to help the less mature
> Wikipedias benefit from the more robust research into sources etc. that
> takes place at the big ones -- and help the big ones notice when they have
> out-of-sync information from one another, and make informed decisions about
> what to do about it.
>
> The analysis you offer here doesn't seem granular enough to capture this,
> and seems to miss the primary value of Wikidata when it comes to Wikipedia.
>
> Thoughts?
> Pete
>


Pete,

Yes, those are good points I missed.

Andreas
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] IRC office hours: Shared hosting

2015-12-14 Thread James Salsman
Hi Giles,

I regret I will probably not be available for the IRC office hours as scheduled.

In the discussion of shared hosting, I worry that en:User:Dispenser's
reflinks project, which requires a 20 TB cache, is being forgotten
again. He tried to host it himself, but it's offline again. This data
is essential in maintaining an audit trail of references as long as
the Internet Archive respects robots.txt retroactively, allowing those
who inherit domains to censor them, even if they have already been
used as a reference in Wikipedia. Keeping the cache is absolutely a
fair use right in the US, in both statutory and case law, and it is
essential to be able to track down patterns of attempts at deceptive
editing to address quality concerns around deliberately biased editing
such as paid editing. Because of the sensitivity of this goal, the
Foundation should certainly bear the risk of hosting the reflinks
cache. However, in the past, 20 TB was considered excessive, even
though the cost was shown to be less than $5000 without whatever Dell
NSA-enabled hardware you usually buy.

Would you please reach out to en:User:Dispenser and offer them the
20TB hosting solution they need for the Foundation to bear the risk of
the reflinks cache?  Thank you for your kind consideration.

Best regards,
Jim

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] A Massive Online Open Course about Wikipedia

2015-12-14 Thread Rodrigo Tetsuo Argenton
Sorry, but this a course, right? So Why did you not interact with
Wikibooks, and Wikiversity?

On 14 December 2015 at 14:02, Berard Myriam 
wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> For a few months now, 15 French-speaking Wikipedia editors, supported by
> Wikimédia France, have been working to design a Massive Online Open Course,
> to learn how to contribute to Wikipedia and discover more about the way it
> works.
>
> The WikiMOOC lasts for 5 weeks (with 2,5h of work/ week, including the
> duration of the courses). You can check out the project page on Wikipedia
> [1].
>
> The registration for this WikiMOOC opens today, on the FUN [2] platform
> (powered by the Ministry of Education and Research, in France) !
>
> The courses will start on February 22nd, 2016.
>
> Do not hesitate to share this information to all French-speaking
> communities you might know of. Please, note that it is possible to stay
> tuned via WikiMOOC's Twitter[3] and Facebook[4] accounts.
>
> Here is a short trailer about the WikiMOOC in French :) Enjoy ! [5]
>
> Please, feel free to reach out to me if you have any questions,
>
>
> Jules Xénard jules.xen...@wikimedia.fr
>
> Wikimédia France
>
> [1] https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:WikiMOOC
>
> [2]
>
> https://www.france-universite-numerique-mooc.fr/courses/WMFr/86001/session01/about
>
> [3] https://twitter.com/wikimooc
> [4] https://www.facebook.com/Wikimooc/
> [5] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=assiAnG3lv4
>
>
> --
> Myriam Berard
> Wikimédia France
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-- 
Rodrigo Tetsuo Argenton
rodrigo.argen...@gmail.com
+55 11 979 718 884
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] A Massive Online Open Course about Wikipedia

2015-12-14 Thread Emeric Vallespi
Hello Rodrigo,

Thanks for your support.
Indeed, it is a course to understand and learn how to contribute to Wikipedia.
That's why the Wikipedia community is involved.

The Mooc platform ("FUN") seemed more adapted to conduct the course, manage 
inscriptions, release the different stages and support the learners.

The content is free licensed (as far as I know) and the Mooc platform allows to 
release the content even after the session.

You can reach out to Jules (jules.xenard AT wikimedia.fr) if you have any 
further questions.

-- 
Emeric

> On 14 Dec 2015, at 18:31, Rodrigo Tetsuo Argenton 
>  wrote:
> 
> Sorry, but this a course, right? So Why did you not interact with
> Wikibooks, and Wikiversity?
> 
> On 14 December 2015 at 14:02, Berard Myriam 
> wrote:
> 
>> Hello everyone,
>> 
>> For a few months now, 15 French-speaking Wikipedia editors, supported by
>> Wikimédia France, have been working to design a Massive Online Open Course,
>> to learn how to contribute to Wikipedia and discover more about the way it
>> works.
>> 
>> The WikiMOOC lasts for 5 weeks (with 2,5h of work/ week, including the
>> duration of the courses). You can check out the project page on Wikipedia
>> [1].
>> 
>> The registration for this WikiMOOC opens today, on the FUN [2] platform
>> (powered by the Ministry of Education and Research, in France) !
>> 
>> The courses will start on February 22nd, 2016.
>> 
>> Do not hesitate to share this information to all French-speaking
>> communities you might know of. Please, note that it is possible to stay
>> tuned via WikiMOOC's Twitter[3] and Facebook[4] accounts.
>> 
>> Here is a short trailer about the WikiMOOC in French :) Enjoy ! [5]
>> 
>> Please, feel free to reach out to me if you have any questions,
>> 
>> 
>> Jules Xénard jules.xen...@wikimedia.fr
>> 
>> Wikimédia France
>> 
>> [1] https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:WikiMOOC
>> 
>> [2]
>> 
>> https://www.france-universite-numerique-mooc.fr/courses/WMFr/86001/session01/about
>> 
>> [3] https://twitter.com/wikimooc
>> [4] https://www.facebook.com/Wikimooc/
>> [5] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=assiAnG3lv4
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Myriam Berard
>> Wikimédia France
>> ___
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>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Rodrigo Tetsuo Argenton
> rodrigo.argen...@gmail.com
> +55 11 979 718 884
> ___
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> 

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