Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google

2016-01-09 Thread Yaroslav M. Blanter
On 2016-01-09 13:14, Ilario Valdelli wrote: Yes but this overlapping generates this kind of misunderstanding. For people being outside wikimedia community there are several changes too much complicated. Il 09/Gen/2016 13:08, "Yaroslav M. Blanter" ha scritto: To be

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google

2016-01-09 Thread Ilario Valdelli
Yes but this list is public. Being in the shoes of an external I would have so much material to do a science fictional romance. Il 09/Gen/2016 13:21, "Yaroslav M. Blanter" ha scritto: > On 2016-01-09 13:14, Ilario Valdelli wrote: > >> Yes but this overlapping generates this

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google

2016-01-09 Thread Brad Jorsch (Anomie)
ObDisclaimer: This reply consists of my own personal views and in no way represents anything official. I think I can leak a little useful information on this topic without fear. ;) On Sat, Jan 9, 2016 at 3:12 AM, Anders Wennersten wrote: > I also think it would be

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agre...

2016-01-09 Thread BishopJ
Let me provide a somewhat dissenting opinion. I'm not sure that Arnnon Geshuri's sins were all that bad. Remember that where's there's big money, there will be predatory lawyers looking for trouble. Is it bad corporate policy, wrong, or even illegal for a company to make a decision not

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google

2016-01-09 Thread Yaroslav M. Blanter
On 2016-01-09 12:54, Steinsplitter Wiki wrote: That James was replaced with Geshuri, who was involved in a scandal is yet a other scandal. James Heilman was never replaced by Arnnon Geshuri. Arnnon replaced Stu West, and James will be replaced by a to-be-elected community member later this

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcement about changes to the Board

2016-01-09 Thread MZMcBride
Milos Rancic wrote: >Our technology is based on the concept from 1990s, implemented in 2001 >and slightly changed up to the moment. The only major technology which >catches 2005 (Visual Editor) is in alpha or beta stage, depending on >how harsh QA process would be implemented. > >Something should

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcement about changes to the Board

2016-01-09 Thread Milos Rancic
On Sat, Jan 9, 2016 at 9:48 AM, geni wrote: > On 9 January 2016 at 02:07, Milos Rancic wrote: >> On top of that, unlike Sue, Lila is a geek. And geeks have troubles in >> understanding the social impact of their actions, especially inside of >> the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google

2016-01-09 Thread Ilario Valdelli
Yes but this overlapping generates this kind of misunderstanding. For people being outside wikimedia community there are several changes too much complicated. Il 09/Gen/2016 13:08, "Yaroslav M. Blanter" ha scritto: > On 2016-01-09 12:54, Steinsplitter Wiki wrote: > >> That

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google

2016-01-09 Thread Anders Wennersten
Very good point Chris. I also think it would be good to remember that WMF transformation from the "Superprotect disaster" to a very much appreciated 2015 Community Wishlist Survey. To go from an "inside-out" to an "outside-in" model in deciding what functionality to develop is a revolution.

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google

2016-01-09 Thread Austin Hair
Having waited two days for any kind of meaningful response from either the Board or from individual trustees, I have to say that Kat's comments (unsurprisingly) nailed it. I mean, seriously, nobody googled him? Austin On Fri, Jan 8, 2016 at 9:48 PM, Kat Walsh wrote: > I

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thank you, Jan-Bart and Stu

2016-01-09 Thread Subhashish Panigrahi
Jan-Bart and Stu, thank you so much for your great contribution to the movement! Best, Subha On 1/9/2016 1:20 PM, Nurunnaby Chowdhury (Hasive) wrote: > All the best and Thanks you Jan-Bart de Vreede and Stu West. > > On Sat, Jan 9, 2016 at 5:22 AM, Samuel Klein wrote: > >>

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Knight Foundation grant for search and discovery

2016-01-09 Thread Andreas Kolbe
On Sat, Jan 9, 2016 at 3:48 AM, Michael Snow wrote: > While it depends on the purpose of the grant, for the deliverables > identified in the original post it seems clear that the most natural costs > to pay would be salaries in software engineering, broadly speaking. As

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google

2016-01-09 Thread MZMcBride
Austin Hair wrote: >Having waited two days for any kind of meaningful response from either >the Board or from individual trustees, I have to say that Kat's >comments (unsurprisingly) nailed it. > >I mean, seriously, nobody googled him? Since it doesn't seem to have been mentioned in this thread

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google

2016-01-09 Thread David Gerard
... and the court papers, and the smoking gun documents, and ... This is the sort of thing that needs some serious explaining. Assume good faith, but we're starting from some pretty *startling* circumstances and evidence here. - d. On 9 January 2016 at 09:19, Craig Franklin

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google

2016-01-09 Thread Risker
On 9 January 2016 at 10:09, Fæ wrote: > > > > We are well overdue for a major turnover of board members. > Fae > -- > > While I have largely kept out of this thread to this time, this statement needs to be rebutted. There are ten seats on the board. Five of them - all

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google

2016-01-09 Thread Pete Forsyth
Sarah, thanks for the response -- but I find this puzzling. I don't want to get into too many details here, as I think the comment thread on the Signpost op-ed, or the poll on the letter's talk page, are more appropriate venues for that; but briefly: On Sat, Jan 9, 2016 at 12:30 PM, SarahSV

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google

2016-01-09 Thread Pete Forsyth
Hi Anders, Your perspective is very different from mine or from any I've heard, and I'd like to understand it better: On Sat, Jan 9, 2016 at 3:12 AM, Anders Wennersten wrote: > I also think it would be good to remember that WMF transformation from > the "Superprotect

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google

2016-01-09 Thread SarahSV
On Sat, Jan 9, 2016 at 12:56 PM, Pete Forsyth wrote: > > > I give Lila 100% credit for this change and thank the Board for > supporting > > this change (and also to have recruited Lila with this as main purpose) > > > > I would have to give this final point a big "citation

[Wikimedia-l] WMF Scholarship Deadline for Wikimania is Today

2016-01-09 Thread Ellie Young
Reminder: Scholarship applications for Wikimania 2016 which is being held in Esino Lario, Italy on June 22–27, 2016 are now being accepted. Applications are open until Saturday, January 09 2016 23:59 UTC. Applicants will be able to apply for a partial or full scholarship. A full scholarship will

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google

2016-01-09 Thread
On 9 January 2016 at 17:34, MZMcBride wrote: > I don't think this board has any unhealthy relationship with > Google.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 08:02, 9 January 2016 (UTC) > Source: . LOL. A new WMF trustee was proven in

[Wikimedia-l] Beyond the Board (was: WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google)

2016-01-09 Thread Milos Rancic
Forking the issue of Board composition. We tend to think of Board as the governing body of the movement, not just WMF. Board members tend to think of themselves as the governing body of WMF, with shiny cool movement supporting it. We tend to discuss of community representation, they tend to

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google

2016-01-09 Thread
Hello everyone, I would like to put out a friendly reminder that good practice is to keep threads on topic within reason, and to create new discussion threads for distinct tangents or complete spin off discussions. "Community Tech Team" and "Lila's performance" are interesting, and to be fair

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcement about changes to the Board

2016-01-09 Thread MZMcBride
On January 8, 2016, the Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees issued "a short statement on recent comments by James Heilman". For completeness' sake, I'm pasting the text of that statement into this thread. --- Recently, James Heilman wrote, regarding his removal from the Wikimedia Foundation

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google

2016-01-09 Thread Todd Allen
There is still a significant problem the Board does have, though. "Chapter/thorg selected seats" are not community seats. And we've recently found out that none of the seats at all are actually considered to be community-selected, and that a community elected board member can be removed without

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google

2016-01-09 Thread MZMcBride
Brad Jorsch (Anomie) wrote: >IMO, you should give credit to the Community Tech team. They're the ones >who came up with the wishlist idea and did it, unless I'm totally >mistaken. > >You could also give some credit to the staffers who originally proposed >creating the Community Tech team. It

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google

2016-01-09 Thread Kevin Gorman
Though I'm trying to cut back on the number of posts I make to this list, I want to respond to a couple points made in this thread. First I totally understand - and agree - that we can't expect immediate board comment on Arnnon's appointment. Although I think the degree of the issue should've

[Wikimedia-l] In Support of Community

2016-01-09 Thread Damon Sicore
To All, Just to mark this moment, or maybe remind those who paid attention when I published these, some long before I vanished in silence: https://damon.sicore.com/proof-0/ https://damon.sicore.com/proof-1/ https://damon.sicore.com/proof-2/ https://damon.sicore.com/proof-3/

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google

2016-01-09 Thread Austin Hair
On Sat, Jan 9, 2016 at 5:21 PM, Fæ wrote: > Hello everyone, I would like to put out a friendly reminder that good > practice is to keep threads on topic within reason, and to create new > discussion threads for distinct tangents or complete spin off > discussions. > > "Community

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google

2016-01-09 Thread SarahSV
On Sat, Jan 9, 2016 at 2:21 PM, Pete Forsyth wrote: > I do think there are two significant issues with Mr. Geshuri's appointment, > though -- the second of which has not been brought up yet: > (1) The Board did not apparently do basic due diligence in looking into his >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google

2016-01-09 Thread Theo10011
Hey Fae On Sat, Jan 9, 2016, Fæ wrote: > > LOL. > Jeez, this board are complacent beyond the point of incompetence. We > are well overdue for a major turnover of board members. For goodness > sake, what a bunch of clowns we have put in charge of the cash cow. I know there

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google

2016-01-09 Thread Milos Rancic
On Sun, Jan 10, 2016 at 12:02 AM, SarahSV wrote: > Do we know who suggested > Arnnon Geshuri > for a board seat? Spoiler: As "trust and honesty" are highly valued, his name likely appeared inside of a list "we compiled in the past". -- Milos

Re: [Wikimedia-l] In Support of Community

2016-01-09 Thread Joseph Fox
Thanks, Damon. It all makes sense now. On Sat, 9 Jan 2016 at 15:55 Damon Sicore wrote: > To All, > > Just to mark this moment, or maybe remind those who paid attention when I > published these, some long before I vanished in silence: > > https://damon.sicore.com/proof-0/ > >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google

2016-01-09 Thread Todd Allen
I think Fae's frustration (and everyone else's) is quite understandable. I understand your concern with keeping the discussion civil, but there does come a time to move from "Please provide more information about this" to "Stop stonewalling and giving nonanswers, and tell us what in the hell is

Re: [Wikimedia-l] What happened on the Board of Trustees?

2016-01-09 Thread Comet styles
The major problem is and has been for a while is that we have people in the hierarchy who do not understand how the wiki works, most have never made an edit out of their 'hidden' wikis or userpages on wmfwiki or meta.. How can one trust a product in the hands of someone who does not use it? ..We

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcement about changes to the Board

2016-01-09 Thread Comet styles
Jimmy has always been biased so I personally won't trust his words but the way this is playing out, its like James somehow revealed the pass codes to the WMF Nuclear launch codes or something...did he? A board made up to govern a community driven project filled with people no one voted in decides

Re: [Wikimedia-l] What happened on the Board of Trustees?

2016-01-09 Thread Toby Negrin
Hi Cometstyles - A lot of people have put much more of themselves into the project than me but I would like to request that we maintain a civil tone and subject. Regardless of how we feel about professional aptitude I think we should leave personal lives and families out of these discussions.

Re: [Wikimedia-l] What happened on the Board of Trustees?

2016-01-09 Thread Arjuna Rao Chavala
Hi Tobias On Sat, Jan 9, 2016 at 12:06 AM, Tobias wrote: > Dear all, > > right now, we know very little about the removal of James. It is hard > for anyone not involved (which is the vast majority of this community) > to come up with any safe conclusions,

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google

2016-01-09 Thread geni
On 8 January 2016 at 22:41, Lodewijk wrote: > Maybe here the best is to wait a bit for the WMF to come with a response, > before piling on - unless you actually have information to contribute. > Pile-on threads seem to lead these days to the original questions being

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google

2016-01-09 Thread Lodewijk
I suspect they need a few days, based on past experiences. To dig into the matter, and prepare an answer relevant parties can agree on. Lodewijk On Sat, Jan 9, 2016 at 9:18 AM, geni wrote: > On 8 January 2016 at 22:41, Lodewijk wrote: > > >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Please sign your posts

2016-01-09 Thread Ricordisamoa
It is a failure of digest mode then. --unsigned Il 09/01/2016 03:21, billinghurst ha scritto: To those who have fallen out of the habit of signing your posts, please fall back into the habit of good netiquette. For those of us who read the digest mode it is troublesome to have unsigned posts,

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcement about changes to the Board

2016-01-09 Thread geni
On 9 January 2016 at 02:07, Milos Rancic wrote: > > > On top of that, unlike Sue, Lila is a geek. And geeks have troubles in > understanding the social impact of their actions, especially inside of > the extraordinary complex environment of Wikimedia movement. > You aren't

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google

2016-01-09 Thread Chris Keating
> I suspect they need a few days, based on past experiences. To dig into the > matter, and prepare an answer Quite, and thanks for saying that Lodewijk. In my view, the WMF board's top priority has to be the issues about strategy, leadership and staff morale that are being made public now. It is

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google

2016-01-09 Thread Craig Franklin
Chris, Thanks for saying that. I'd also add that while the situation with Arrnon looks damning on the face of it, I'm a little disappointed that people are breaking out the pitchforks based purely on media reports, before he has a chance to present his own side of the story and before Dariusz

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google

2016-01-09 Thread
On 9 January 2016 at 09:06, Chris Keating wrote: ... > Dariusz has said the Board is looking into the situation with Arnnon, which > they were clearly not aware of - that is what needs to happen and yet more > emails on this list won't mean that happens any more

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google

2016-01-09 Thread Thomas Morton
And more to the point; not knowing is a poor defence. Surely any level of due diligence on new board members would have exposed this troubling incident? Tom On Sat, 9 Jan 2016 09:27 Fæ wrote: > On 9 January 2016 at 09:06, Chris Keating > wrote: >

[Wikimedia-l] Changing the subject line

2016-01-09 Thread MZMcBride
Austin Hair wrote: >On Sat, Jan 9, 2016 at 5:21 PM, Fæ wrote: >> Hello everyone, I would like to put out a friendly reminder that good >> practice is to keep threads on topic within reason, and to create new >> discussion threads for distinct tangents or complete spin off >>