Re: [Wikimedia-l] Keeping historical documents related to Wikimedia

[MZMcBride]

Yann Forget wrote:
>That completely defeats the point.
>Anyone can keep a copy locally, but 1. the file isn't available publicly,
>2. nobody really knows where it is available (Google won't say X has a
>copy), 3. if the local storage is damaged, the file is lost.
>
>So I am asking the WMF to have a place to keep such files publicly.

It's kind of amusing to read a discussion about preserving historical
documents where the author's name includes the word "forget." :-)

The problem here is a lot more social than technical. We already have two
places that users can upload and manage files: commons.wikimedia.org and
meta.wikimedia.org. There's no technical reason that either of these
places can't be used, as far as I know. The issue is that some people on
these wikis insist that all content be completely free.

Depending on the size of the files you want to store and how much you care
about presentation, metadata, etc., there are some more obscure places we
could stick the files basically indefinitely. We could put them in a Git
repository on gerrit.wikimedia.org or maybe github.com, we could stick
them in Phabricator at phabricator.wikimedia.org, we could put them on
wikimediafoundation.org, we could put them in a user directory on
people.wikimedia.org, we could stick them on a server like
dumps.wikimedia.org or wikitech.wikimedia.org. Hell, we could even find an
obscure Wiktionary or Wikiquote project with reasonable local admins and
just stash the files away there. We have plenty of servers and tools at
our disposal. If you create a Phabricator Maniphest task with a list of
your hard and soft requirements, particularly the amount of storage space
you expect to need, we can probably find you a place to stick these files
away from the people so intent on deleting them.

MZMcBride



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Keeping historical documents related to Wikimedia

[Yann Forget]

Hi,

2017-01-12 1:41 GMT+01:00 Newyorkbrad :

> If it is decided not to host these materials on a wiki, whether for
> copyright or any other reasons, then someone (either in the Office or
> a volunteer) should be designated to retain a copy privately.  That
> way, he or she will be able to upload it later if the copyright status
> or policy changes in the future, or to make it available offline for
> research use or consultation by historians or other researchers who
> could make good use of it.
>

That completely defeats the point.
Anyone can keep a copy locally, but 1. the file isn't available publicly,
2. nobody really knows where it is available (Google won't say X has a
copy), 3. if the local storage is damaged, the file is lost.

So I am asking the WMF to have a place to keep such files publicly.

Regards,

Yann

>
> Newyorkbrad/IBM
>
> On 1/11/17, Pete Forsyth  wrote:
> > Thank you for bringing this up, Yann. Some relevant context is that Meta
> > Wiki users considered permitting such files on Meta Wiki a year and a
> half
> > ago, and decided not to. The electorate was not very big (14 votes,
> total),
> > but it was carefully considered, with compelling arguments made on both
> > sides.[1]
> >
> > In my opinion, the best outcome would be that Meta Wiki should have an
> > Exemption Doctrine Policy (the board's name for a project's local policy
> > that would permit copyrighted files under specific circumstances)[2] I
> > think the Meta Wiki decision should be revisited and considered in more
> > depth, with more participation, and probably reversed (with some careful
> > work on defining the proper circumstances for an exemption).
> >
> > But of course, that's not an easy task. I have no ready answer, but am
> > interested to see what ideas others have.
> > -Pete
> > [[User:Peteforsyth]]
> >
> > [1]
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Meta:Babel&;
> diff=prev&oldid=13362698#General_discussion_on_allowing_or_rejecting_fair_
> use_at_Meta
> > [2] https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Resolution:Licensing_policy
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 3:04 PM, Yann Forget  wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> I would like to get more opinions about what to do with files such as
> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Education_and_WGIG.pdf
> >>
> >> This is a draft from a United Nations conference which mentions
> Wikipedia
> >> (the first and only AFAIK), and as such, an important historical
> document.
> >>
> >> It doesn't have a formal license, but there is no real copyright issue.
> >>
> >> Where and how should we keep such files?
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Yann Forget
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wiki Speaks Your Language

[NC Hasive]

Great Initiative!

Hasive

On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 2:34 AM, Bodhisattwa Mandal <
bodhisattwa.rg...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Kiril,
>
> Wikitongues videos are uploaded primarily in their Youtube channel and only
> few of them are under CC-BY-SA license. Although they depend on
> crowdsourcing, still it's not a wiki, so the number of uploads are not so
> frequent.
> On Jan 14, 2017 1:19 AM, "Kiril Simeonovski" 
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Bodhisattwa,
> >
> > It is great to know that Wikitounges are working on documenting all
> > languages in the world under free licence. Their repository may be
> another
> > major source for uploads on Wikimedia Commons that will be later used in
> > Wikipedia articles. Thus, we will achieve the goal of our initiative and
> > improve the article quality, while they will also benefit from the
> > increased use of their files.
> >
> > Best,
> > Kiril
> >
> > On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 20:30 Bodhisattwa Mandal <
> > bodhisattwa.rg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > 1) Similar initiative by Wikitongues -  http://wikitongues.org/
> > > 2) Some files were uploaded under CC-BY-SA license -
> > > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikitongues
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 13 January 2017 at 22:55, Kiril Simeonovski <
> > > kiril.simeonov...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi all,
> > > >
> > > > I am pleased to announce the launch of the Wiki Speaks Your Language
> > [1]
> > > > initiative with the goal of enriching the Wikimedia projects with
> > freely
> > > > licensed audio and video files documenting spoken examples of every
> > > > language, language variety and dialect in the world.
> > > >
> > > > The idea originates from the curiosity of many readers viewing
> language
> > > > articles not only to read about the language but also to hear how
> does
> > it
> > > > sound. In most of the cases, our language articles lack such files
> and
> > > > readers usually end up searching videos on YouTube, notwithstanding
> > that
> > > we
> > > > have the capacity as a movement and the resources to meet their wish.
> > > >
> > > > The initiative lists three possible ways of acquiring freely licensed
> > > audio
> > > > and video files:
> > > >
> > > > 1) by adapting existing files on Wikimedia Commons (mostly from the
> > > Spoken
> > > > Wikipedia projects [2]);
> > > > 2) by liberating existing files from the repositories of GLAM and
> > > > educational institutions; and
> > > > 3) by engaging Wikimedia communities, GLAM and educational
> institutions
> > > in
> > > > the recording of new files.
> > > >
> > > > In the first phase, the plan is to work with the available resources
> we
> > > > have and adapt the existing videos from the Spoken Wikipedia projects
> > > > (there
> > > > are some useful tips [3] on what the existing files should be adapted
> > > to).
> > > >
> > > > I will be very thankful if members of this list help in spreading the
> > > word
> > > > about the initiative through other channels to the communities
> > and`other
> > > > parties in our movement.
> > > >
> > > > Best regards,
> > > > Kiril
> > > >
> > > > [1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wiki_Speaks_Your_Language
> > > > [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikisound
> > > > [3] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wiki_Speaks_Your_
> > > > Language/Tips#Qualities_of_files
> > > > ___
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Bodhisattwa
> > > ___
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*Nurunnaby Chowdhury (Hasive) **:: **নুরুন্নবী চৌধুরী (হাছিব)*
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] mirror Linux Mint package repos?

[Jaime Crespo]

Jason,

I have forwarded your request to the (I think) right mirror maintainers
(Technical Operations) and will try to let you know if this is possible.

Independently of that, I think a Phabricator[1] ticket would be the best
way to track requests like this. PM me if you have questions on how to do
that.

Regards,

[1] 

On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 4:43 AM, Jason Cooper 
wrote:

> All,
>
> I've begun using tor+https://mirrors.wikimedia.org/... for debian based
> systems and it's working great.  No need to add apt.conf.d
> customizations or anything.  Unfortunately, I'm unable to find an
> up-to-date https mirror of the Linux Mint repos.  mirrors.kernel.org has
> one, but it isn't kept up to date, and their SSL certs require some
> fiddling to work.  (disable hostname verification :( )
>
> Would the mirrors.wikimedia.org maintainers mind mirroring the Linux
> Mint repos?  The setup info is here:
>
>   https://linuxmint.com/mirrors.php
>
> It takes about 25GB, and they request that it be sync'd twice per day.
>
> For background, I've included my
> /etc/apt/sources.list.d/official-package-repositories.list
>
> --8<--
> deb tor+https://mirrors.kernel.org/linuxmint-packages/ serena main
> upstream import backport #id:linuxmint_main
>
> deb tor+https://ubuntu.wikimedia.org/ubuntu/ xenial main restricted
> universe multiverse
> deb tor+https://ubuntu.wikimedia.org/ubuntu/ xenial-updates main
> restricted universe multiverse
> deb tor+https://ubuntu.wikimedia.org/ubuntu/ xenial-backports main
> restricted universe multiverse
>
> deb tor+https://ubuntu.wikimedia.org/ubuntu/ xenial-security main
> restricted universe multiverse
> deb tor+https://ubuntu.wikimedia.org/ubuntu/ xenial partner
> --8<--
>
> I'd like to change the first line to point towards mirrors.wm.o as well.
>
> thx,
>
> Jason.
>
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-- 
Jaime Crespo

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Keeping historical documents related to Wikimedia

[Gerard Meijssen]

Hoi,

For me it is not clear at all that how a long term road map will be of
benefit. Quite to the contrary. I am afraid it will solidify what the WMF
does and remove any benefits of the ability to adapt to changes due to new
points of view. I do understand the need to plan, I understand that
development does not happen in a vacuum and that it is important to be
transparent about objectives.

The question is who such a road map has to be transparent for. Given that I
am and have been active and care deeply for what we aim to achieve, I
consider that I have a need to know because it helps me to plan what I work
on. It helps me when I understand what future technology enables and it is
why I have for instance worked on adding Wikidata items for Commons Creator
templates.

My point is that exactly because of involvement, having some grasp where we
are moving gives relevance to a continued expansion of the understanding
how we are to achieve "the sharing of the sum of all knowledge".

When people with no involvement ask for a long term commitment with vague
notions of "community involvement" I fail to understand how this will be of
benefit. What it is that they aim to achieve and why is  this involvement
asked. My biggest worry is that it will ossify what we do and will make us
even less agile and potentially less relevant. Never mind possible any good
intentions we should not commit too far in the future.

Thanks,

   GerardM
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[Wikimedia-l] mirror Linux Mint package repos?

[Jason Cooper]

All,

I've begun using tor+https://mirrors.wikimedia.org/... for debian based
systems and it's working great.  No need to add apt.conf.d
customizations or anything.  Unfortunately, I'm unable to find an
up-to-date https mirror of the Linux Mint repos.  mirrors.kernel.org has
one, but it isn't kept up to date, and their SSL certs require some
fiddling to work.  (disable hostname verification :( )

Would the mirrors.wikimedia.org maintainers mind mirroring the Linux
Mint repos?  The setup info is here:

  https://linuxmint.com/mirrors.php

It takes about 25GB, and they request that it be sync'd twice per day.

For background, I've included my
/etc/apt/sources.list.d/official-package-repositories.list

--8<--
deb tor+https://mirrors.kernel.org/linuxmint-packages/ serena main upstream 
import backport #id:linuxmint_main

deb tor+https://ubuntu.wikimedia.org/ubuntu/ xenial main restricted universe 
multiverse
deb tor+https://ubuntu.wikimedia.org/ubuntu/ xenial-updates main restricted 
universe multiverse
deb tor+https://ubuntu.wikimedia.org/ubuntu/ xenial-backports main restricted 
universe multiverse

deb tor+https://ubuntu.wikimedia.org/ubuntu/ xenial-security main restricted 
universe multiverse
deb tor+https://ubuntu.wikimedia.org/ubuntu/ xenial partner
--8<--

I'd like to change the first line to point towards mirrors.wm.o as well.

thx,

Jason.

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Keeping historical documents related to Wikimedia

[geni]

On 12 January 2017 at 22:20, Rogol Domedonfors  wrote:
> Fæ, Surely no grant-giving body would even talk to the Foundation if it
> could not show them a plan for the medium to long term.

Umm are we looking at a different set of grant funded projects here
because I've seen quite a few burn out over far shorter periods.

In any case for online stuff we still live in a world where 5 years is
long term and the foundation would have to quite spectacularly screw
up not to last that long. Beyond that they can point to the licenses
and database dumps. The software is open source the content is under a
free license. Even if Wikipedia isn't around the software and content
will be. Degrees of survival out to 10 years are fairly easy to
guarantee without special planning. Beyond that things always get a
bit speculative and long nowish.



-- 
geni

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