Re: [Wikimedia-l] [arbcom-l] Where is WMF with pursuing companies that offer paid editing services

2017-04-12 Thread James Heilman
Looking at the Burger King case:

I do not have a concern with the ad they created to have Google read the WP
article about their product.

My concern is them possibly altering the first sentence of said article.
But we now have that under control and it was a fairly innocuous in the
grand scheme of undisclosed paid editing.

James

On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 10:46 PM, Risker  wrote:

> Without getting into the details of the situation, Pine, I'll simply point
> out that the budget for the legal team of an international corporation like
> Burger King is going to be significantly larger than the entire budget of
> the Wikimedia Foundation, and punishing organizations that have figured out
> a way to trigger a voice-activated software program to obtain information
> that is likely to come from Wikipedia articles doesn't really seem to be
> within scope. I do not see why you would advocate spending the WMF's tiny
> Legal Department budget like this, instead of on copyright reform, or
> assisting in prosecuting those harassing members of our community, or
> preventing others from claiming they are directly related to the Wikimedia
> Foundation or its projects; all of these are entirely on-mission.
>
> There's nothing there to sue them for, anyway - it's open-licensed content
> that anyone can use in any way they see fit, including for commercial
> purposes.  Indeed, that's exactly what Google does on its own search
> results, every day, all day - and it's exactly why the Burger King "trick"
> works, too. They're taking advantage of the Google interface, knowing that
> it is most likely to search Wikipedia for the information requested.  But
> there's not as much vitriol directed at Google, because after all it was
> Google bumping Wikipedia up in its search result algorithms that has (in
> large part) driven the popularity of  the Wikipedia projects.  There's not
> even a genuine attribution issue; as I recall, Alexa says "From Wikipedia"
> at either the beginning or the end of its report.
>
> In other words, I'm hard-pressed to see why you would want the WMF to take
> legal action against a company that is using Wikipedia as intended.  Okay,
> it's not my favourite way of using itbut this is exactly how it's
> intended to be used. I regularly see links to Wikipedia articles in
> mainstream media, not to mention twitter and facebook news reports. Just
> think if someone says "OK Google, what is Neurocysticercosis?" or "OK
> Google, who's Charlie Murphy?" to reflect two news stories I learned about
> today. I got to the Wikipedia articles on both of those subjects by
> following links in online reports by commercial news outlets.
>
> Risker/Anne
>
> On 13 April 2017 at 00:01, Pine W  wrote:
>
> > I'm bumping this thread because there has been a somewhat high-profile
> > incident of misuse of Wikipedia by a corporate entity.
> >
> > This is not entirely the same as undisclosed paid editing, but it was
> > certainly a misuse of Wikipedia.
> >
> > https://www.theverge.com/2017/4/12/15259400/burger-king-
> > google-home-ad-wikipedia
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Whopper=
> > 773807497=773585358
> >
> > It seems to me that this kind of behavior, and accompanying waste of
> > Wikimedia volunteers' time, is likely to continue until WMF Legal cracks
> > down and starts making it financially painful for organizations to misuse
> > Wikipedia in all their various creative and inappropriate ways.
> >
> > A quote from
> > http://www.marketwatch.com/story/clever-burger-king-ad-
> > attempts-to-hijack-google-home-devices-2017-04-12:
> > “Burger King saw an opportunity to do something exciting with the
> emerging
> > technology of intelligent personal assistant devices,” a Burger King
> > spokesperson said. I would like for WMF to make Burger King feel that
> their
> > misuse of WIkipedia was inappropriate and for WMF to hit them where it
> > counts -- in their checkbook -- and with enough force that corporations
> > will decide that messing with Wikipedia is both ethically wrong and
> > financially not worth the risk. WMF needs to change marketers' thinking
> > from the idea that messing with Wikipedia is "an opportunity" to "a big
> > risk." I would like to see WMF Legal get energized about cracking down on
> > these kinds of situations, and I'd be happy to have WMF make an expensive
> > example of Burger King to deter misconduct by others.
> >
> > Pine
> > ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Let's go gender neutral

2017-04-12 Thread Amir E. Aharoni
Mmmm, the Hebrew Wikipedia has been gender-neutral for at least eight years
:)

So Commons is not exactly the first project to do this.


בתאריך 12 באפר׳ 2017 10:14 AM,‏ "Fæ"  כתב:

I am delighted to say that Wikimedia Commons is today the /first/
project to have an official Gender-neutral language policy for its
policies and help pages, so that the project is a welcoming
environment for all. Thanks to everyone that took part in the
discussions and vote!

* https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Use_of_gender_neutral_language
*

The proposal was an unplanned outcome from the WM-LGBT+ user group
taking part in this year's Wikimedia Conference in Berlin, part of all
the creative discussions that go on when so many international
Wikimedians get together.

If you missed it, the English Wikipedia has an ongoing 'lively'
Request for Comment for its own Gender-neutral policy for policies,
see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Fae/RFC_GNL

Thanks
Fae
Wikmedia LGBT+ https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_LGBT+
https://telegram.me/wmlgbt

On 8 April 2017 at 14:04, Gnangarra  wrote:
> I beg to differ with Anders final comment;
>
>>
>> And our standpoint is that we as Wikipedians should not be first in
>> introducing new use of language but wait until it has become mainstream
(if
>> it ever will be)
>
>
> I have no issue within our policies and projects being a leader the use of
> neutral language that encompasses all equally because neutrality is one of
> the key pillars of the community.  We can and must do better to ensure
that
> everyone has the ability to contribute on an equal basis.
>
> If a language doesnt have a gender neutral way to express an individual
> then we should be encouraging speakers to find alternative ways which can
> best express our neutral position
>
> On 8 April 2017 at 20:32, Fæ  wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the French experience. :-) You may not have picked up on
>> the specific comment about the French Wikipedia a few days ago in the
>> general Wikimedia Commons Village Pump discussion:[1]
>>
>> "* Total Support. This is not only useful to the trans community, but
>> in the case of French, it is more inclusive for women also, as the
>> French (I'm writing French and this does not mean francophone) have
>> the disastrous tendency to masculinize everything pretending this is
>> the way the french grammar addresses "gender neutrality in French". I
>> would really like us to reflect on writing a best practice manual for
>> all those who want to have an inclusive language (coupled with a non
>> violent communication guide for online practices). Actually on the
>> French wikipedia, most pronouns are in the masculine form even on talk
>> / user / help pages, and when one raises the issue, one gets insults
>> and very silly remarks. --Nattes à chat"
>>
>> It is sad to see that the local community has difficulty staying
>> respectful or even civil when these gender related discussions arise,
>> and should be a welcoming and open debate about the facts for modern
>> language usage. There are no easy solutions, apart from persisting,
>> keeping the topic on our agenda, and gradually educating where we can,
>> even though this gets very tiring for our best volunteers!
>>
>> The French Wikipedia is not alone, and I have been told over the last
>> week of exactly the same problem of "silly comments" on the German
>> Wikipedia, and my experience with raising a Request for Comment
>> yesterday on the English Wikipedia[2] is that discussions on this do
>> include critical views being expressed, which is okay, in a
>> disrespectful way, which is definitely not okay! It's a shame that
>> even some administrators will defend intentionally disrespectful
>> comments as so-called "free speech", rather than a breach of our
>> civility policies or the basic WMF terms of use for our websites.[3]
>>
>> P.S. Florence, your email gets automatically put in spam when using
>> Google's email system. I'm not even sure how to stop that happening
>> for yahoo addresses to this list.
>>
>> Links
>> 1. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Village_pump#
>> Defaulting_to_gender_neutral_language_in_policies_and_help_pages
>> 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Fae/RFC_GNL
>> 3. https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Terms_of_Use
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Fae
>>
>> On 7 April 2017 at 20:58, Florence Devouard  wrote:
>> > A couple of weeks ago, I was asked - in my capacity of meta admin - to
>> > change the phrasing of a site notice on meta, meant to call for
>> > participation to the month of Francophonie.
>> >
>> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:
>> Centralnotice-template-WikiFranca_MC17=prev=16482259
>> >
>> > The sentence of the call in the site notice was in language neutral
>> > terminology.
>> >
>> > "les Wikimédien.nes" instead of the more traditionnal but non neutral
>> "les
>> > Wikimédiens".
>> >
>> > That phrasing 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [arbcom-l] Where is WMF with pursuing companies that offer paid editing services

2017-04-12 Thread Risker
Without getting into the details of the situation, Pine, I'll simply point
out that the budget for the legal team of an international corporation like
Burger King is going to be significantly larger than the entire budget of
the Wikimedia Foundation, and punishing organizations that have figured out
a way to trigger a voice-activated software program to obtain information
that is likely to come from Wikipedia articles doesn't really seem to be
within scope. I do not see why you would advocate spending the WMF's tiny
Legal Department budget like this, instead of on copyright reform, or
assisting in prosecuting those harassing members of our community, or
preventing others from claiming they are directly related to the Wikimedia
Foundation or its projects; all of these are entirely on-mission.

There's nothing there to sue them for, anyway - it's open-licensed content
that anyone can use in any way they see fit, including for commercial
purposes.  Indeed, that's exactly what Google does on its own search
results, every day, all day - and it's exactly why the Burger King "trick"
works, too. They're taking advantage of the Google interface, knowing that
it is most likely to search Wikipedia for the information requested.  But
there's not as much vitriol directed at Google, because after all it was
Google bumping Wikipedia up in its search result algorithms that has (in
large part) driven the popularity of  the Wikipedia projects.  There's not
even a genuine attribution issue; as I recall, Alexa says "From Wikipedia"
at either the beginning or the end of its report.

In other words, I'm hard-pressed to see why you would want the WMF to take
legal action against a company that is using Wikipedia as intended.  Okay,
it's not my favourite way of using itbut this is exactly how it's
intended to be used. I regularly see links to Wikipedia articles in
mainstream media, not to mention twitter and facebook news reports. Just
think if someone says "OK Google, what is Neurocysticercosis?" or "OK
Google, who's Charlie Murphy?" to reflect two news stories I learned about
today. I got to the Wikipedia articles on both of those subjects by
following links in online reports by commercial news outlets.

Risker/Anne

On 13 April 2017 at 00:01, Pine W  wrote:

> I'm bumping this thread because there has been a somewhat high-profile
> incident of misuse of Wikipedia by a corporate entity.
>
> This is not entirely the same as undisclosed paid editing, but it was
> certainly a misuse of Wikipedia.
>
> https://www.theverge.com/2017/4/12/15259400/burger-king-
> google-home-ad-wikipedia
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Whopper=
> 773807497=773585358
>
> It seems to me that this kind of behavior, and accompanying waste of
> Wikimedia volunteers' time, is likely to continue until WMF Legal cracks
> down and starts making it financially painful for organizations to misuse
> Wikipedia in all their various creative and inappropriate ways.
>
> A quote from
> http://www.marketwatch.com/story/clever-burger-king-ad-
> attempts-to-hijack-google-home-devices-2017-04-12:
> “Burger King saw an opportunity to do something exciting with the emerging
> technology of intelligent personal assistant devices,” a Burger King
> spokesperson said. I would like for WMF to make Burger King feel that their
> misuse of WIkipedia was inappropriate and for WMF to hit them where it
> counts -- in their checkbook -- and with enough force that corporations
> will decide that messing with Wikipedia is both ethically wrong and
> financially not worth the risk. WMF needs to change marketers' thinking
> from the idea that messing with Wikipedia is "an opportunity" to "a big
> risk." I would like to see WMF Legal get energized about cracking down on
> these kinds of situations, and I'd be happy to have WMF make an expensive
> example of Burger King to deter misconduct by others.
>
> Pine
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [arbcom-l] Where is WMF with pursuing companies that offer paid editing services

2017-04-12 Thread Pine W
I'm bumping this thread because there has been a somewhat high-profile
incident of misuse of Wikipedia by a corporate entity.

This is not entirely the same as undisclosed paid editing, but it was
certainly a misuse of Wikipedia.

https://www.theverge.com/2017/4/12/15259400/burger-king-google-home-ad-wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Whopper=773807497=773585358

It seems to me that this kind of behavior, and accompanying waste of
Wikimedia volunteers' time, is likely to continue until WMF Legal cracks
down and starts making it financially painful for organizations to misuse
Wikipedia in all their various creative and inappropriate ways.

A quote from
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/clever-burger-king-ad-attempts-to-hijack-google-home-devices-2017-04-12:
“Burger King saw an opportunity to do something exciting with the emerging
technology of intelligent personal assistant devices,” a Burger King
spokesperson said. I would like for WMF to make Burger King feel that their
misuse of WIkipedia was inappropriate and for WMF to hit them where it
counts -- in their checkbook -- and with enough force that corporations
will decide that messing with Wikipedia is both ethically wrong and
financially not worth the risk. WMF needs to change marketers' thinking
from the idea that messing with Wikipedia is "an opportunity" to "a big
risk." I would like to see WMF Legal get energized about cracking down on
these kinds of situations, and I'd be happy to have WMF make an expensive
example of Burger King to deter misconduct by others.

Pine
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[Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] This Month in GLAM: March 2017

2017-04-12 Thread The 'This Month in GLAM' team
*This Month in GLAM* is a monthly newsletter documenting recent happenings
within the GLAM project, such as content donations, residencies, events and
more. GLAM is an acronym of *G*alleries, *L*ibraries, *A*rchives and *M*useums.
You can find more information on the project at glamwiki.org.

*This Month in GLAM – Issue III, Volume VII – March 2017*
--


Argentina report: Images donation
http://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/GLAM/Newsletter/March_2017/Contents/Argentina_report

Australia and New Zealand report: Serving up Citations
http://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/GLAM/Newsletter/March_2017/Contents/Australia_and_New_Zealand_report

Basque Country report: Children Literature project's second edition
http://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/GLAM/Newsletter/March_2017/Contents/Basque_Country_report

Belgium report: Open Belgium; Just For The Record; Staff from libraries
educated
http://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/GLAM/Newsletter/March_2017/Contents/Belgium_report

Bulgaria report: First museum photo-thon in Bulgaria
http://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/GLAM/Newsletter/March_2017/Contents/Bulgaria_report

Côte d'Ivoire report: Editing during International Francophone Contribution
Month
http://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/GLAM/Newsletter/March_2017/Contents/Côte_d'Ivoire_report

France report: Workshop in Berlin; WikiTrain in Rennes; Edit-a-thon at the
National Archaeological Museum
http://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/GLAM/Newsletter/March_2017/Contents/France_report

Germany report: Change Your mind
http://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/GLAM/Newsletter/March_2017/Contents/Germany_report

Italy report: Art+Feminism in Italy... and maps
http://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/GLAM/Newsletter/March_2017/Contents/Italy_report

Macedonia report: Macedonian voivode and Rivers in Macedonia
http://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/GLAM/Newsletter/March_2017/Contents/Macedonia_report

Netherlands report: Netherlands and the World Exchange Platform; photohunt
Egmond aan Zee; Iconographia Zoologica
http://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/GLAM/Newsletter/March_2017/Contents/Netherlands_report

Spain report: Wikipedia course at La Yutera Library
http://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/GLAM/Newsletter/March_2017/Contents/Spain_report

Sweden report: Art+Feminism 2017; Connected Open Heritage; Digikult; Art on
Wikipedia; Writing about Gothenburg's history; Updating image description
with new research results
http://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/GLAM/Newsletter/March_2017/Contents/Sweden_report

UK report: Wicipop project in Wales; Wikimedia UK's impact report
http://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/GLAM/Newsletter/March_2017/Contents/UK_report

USA report: Art + Feminism
http://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/GLAM/Newsletter/March_2017/Contents/USA_report

Open Access report: Over 600 new multimedia files, e.g. on embryos, robots
and bouncing water droplets
http://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/GLAM/Newsletter/March_2017/Contents/Open_Access_report

Wikidata report: More maps, more features, more properties, more data!
http://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/GLAM/Newsletter/March_2017/Contents/Wikidata_report

WMF GLAM report: Wikimedia Conference
http://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/GLAM/Newsletter/March_2017/Contents/WMF_GLAM_report

Calendar: April's GLAM events
http://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/GLAM/Newsletter/March_2017/Contents/Events


--


About *This Month in GLAM*
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/GLAM/Newsletter/About

Single page view
http://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/GLAM/Newsletter/March_2017/Single

Twitter
http://twitter.com/ThisMonthinGLAM

Add your story / Work on the next edition
http://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/GLAM/Newsletter/Newsroom


-- 
The *This Month in GLAM* team
http://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/GLAM/Newsletter
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wmfall] April 12: Update on Wikimedia movement strategy process (#13)

2017-04-12 Thread Gregory Varnum
Apologies - correction to last link, should be:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2017/Updates/12_April_2017_-_Update_13_on_Wikimedia_movement_strategy_process

-greg

On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 7:26 PM Katherine Maher 
wrote:

> Hi all!
>
> *Summary: The first cycle of strategy conversations is ending soon.* We
> hope you will contribute your answer to this question: "What do we want to
> build or achieve together over the next 15 years?" -
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/?curid=10152617
>
> This phase has been an opportunity to come up with new ideas. The next
> phase is about refining these ideas to reach some consensus on the most
> important ones. This means that there will still be opportunities to
> contribute in the future! It also means that the focus of the conversation
> will change. If you are interested in generating creative new ideas about
> the future of our projects, *now is the time to share your thoughts!*
>
> Participating is easy. Check out the participation page on Meta-Wiki's
> movement strategy portal for more information. Find online discussions,
> local meetups, and a survey here:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/?curid=10152617
>
> One note: In consideration of the Passover and Easter holidays people
> around the world are recognizing this week and weekend, we have moved the
> closing day for this discussion cycle to the end of April 18 (23:59
> UTC).[1]  That means you have a few additional days to share your ideas -
> big and small - for Wikimedia's future.
>
> Once this discussion cycle ends next week, we will be gathering common
> topics from across all the global discussions and posting them on
> Meta-Wiki. That includes conversations from the wikis, meetups with
> experts, discussions from affiliates, and anywhere else we have
> documented.[2]
>
> The next phase of the discussion will begin by May 1. We’ll be working
> together to prioritize the thematic statements. More information on that
> cycle is available on Meta-Wiki,[3] and we’ll share more when that cycle
> gets started.
>
> I have already seen and heard some fantastic ideas from our first
> discussion cycle these past few weeks. I look forward to seeing what ideas
> emerge in the final days of this cycle!
>
> Un cordial saludo (Spanish translation: “Best regards”),
> Katherine
>
> PS. A version of this message is available for translation on Meta-Wiki.[4]
>
> [1]
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2017/Participate
> [2]
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2017/Sources
> [3]
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2017/Process
> [4]
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2017/Updates/7_April_2017_-_Update_12_on_Wikimedia_movement_strategy_process
>
> --
> Katherine Maher
>
> Wikimedia Foundation
> 149 New Montgomery Street
> San Francisco, CA 94105
>
> +1 (415) 839-6885 ext. 6635 <(415)%20839-6885>
> +1 (415) 712 4873 <(415)%20712-4873>
> kma...@wikimedia.org
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Wikimedia Foundation 
gvar...@wikimedia.org
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[Wikimedia-l] April 12: Update on Wikimedia movement strategy process (#13)

2017-04-12 Thread Katherine Maher
Hi all!

*Summary: The first cycle of strategy conversations is ending soon.* We
hope you will contribute your answer to this question: "What do we want to
build or achieve together over the next 15 years?" -
https://meta.wikimedia.org/?curid=10152617

This phase has been an opportunity to come up with new ideas. The next
phase is about refining these ideas to reach some consensus on the most
important ones. This means that there will still be opportunities to
contribute in the future! It also means that the focus of the conversation
will change. If you are interested in generating creative new ideas about
the future of our projects, *now is the time to share your thoughts!*

Participating is easy. Check out the participation page on Meta-Wiki's
movement strategy portal for more information. Find online discussions,
local meetups, and a survey here:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/?curid=10152617

One note: In consideration of the Passover and Easter holidays people
around the world are recognizing this week and weekend, we have moved the
closing day for this discussion cycle to the end of April 18 (23:59
UTC).[1]  That means you have a few additional days to share your ideas -
big and small - for Wikimedia's future.

Once this discussion cycle ends next week, we will be gathering common
topics from across all the global discussions and posting them on
Meta-Wiki. That includes conversations from the wikis, meetups with
experts, discussions from affiliates, and anywhere else we have
documented.[2]

The next phase of the discussion will begin by May 1. We’ll be working
together to prioritize the thematic statements. More information on that
cycle is available on Meta-Wiki,[3] and we’ll share more when that cycle
gets started.

I have already seen and heard some fantastic ideas from our first
discussion cycle these past few weeks. I look forward to seeing what ideas
emerge in the final days of this cycle!

Un cordial saludo (Spanish translation: “Best regards”),
Katherine

PS. A version of this message is available for translation on Meta-Wiki.[4]

[1]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2017/Participate
[2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2017/Sources
[3] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2017/Process
[4]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2017/Updates/7_April_2017_-_Update_12_on_Wikimedia_movement_strategy_process

-- 
Katherine Maher

Wikimedia Foundation
149 New Montgomery Street
San Francisco, CA 94105

+1 (415) 839-6885 ext. 6635
+1 (415) 712 4873
kma...@wikimedia.org
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[Wikimedia-l] Server switch 2017 - Short editing outages on Wednesday, 19 April 2017 and Wednesday, 3 May 2017

2017-04-12 Thread Nick Wilson (Quiddity)
Reminder, this is coming next week.

**You will be able to read, but not edit, all wikis for a short period of
time.**

* You will not be able to edit for approximately 20 to 30 minutes on
Wednesday, 19 April and Wednesday, 3 May. The test will start at 14:00
 UTC
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Let's go gender neutral

2017-04-12 Thread James Heilman
Excellent to see. Thanks Fae and agree this is an important initiative.

James

On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 1:13 AM, Fæ  wrote:

> I am delighted to say that Wikimedia Commons is today the /first/
> project to have an official Gender-neutral language policy for its
> policies and help pages, so that the project is a welcoming
> environment for all. Thanks to everyone that took part in the
> discussions and vote!
>
> * https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Use_of_gender_
> neutral_language *
>
> The proposal was an unplanned outcome from the WM-LGBT+ user group
> taking part in this year's Wikimedia Conference in Berlin, part of all
> the creative discussions that go on when so many international
> Wikimedians get together.
>
> If you missed it, the English Wikipedia has an ongoing 'lively'
> Request for Comment for its own Gender-neutral policy for policies,
> see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Fae/RFC_GNL
>
> Thanks
> Fae
> Wikmedia LGBT+ https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_LGBT+
> https://telegram.me/wmlgbt
>
> On 8 April 2017 at 14:04, Gnangarra  wrote:
> > I beg to differ with Anders final comment;
> >
> >>
> >> And our standpoint is that we as Wikipedians should not be first in
> >> introducing new use of language but wait until it has become mainstream
> (if
> >> it ever will be)
> >
> >
> > I have no issue within our policies and projects being a leader the use
> of
> > neutral language that encompasses all equally because neutrality is one
> of
> > the key pillars of the community.  We can and must do better to ensure
> that
> > everyone has the ability to contribute on an equal basis.
> >
> > If a language doesnt have a gender neutral way to express an individual
> > then we should be encouraging speakers to find alternative ways which can
> > best express our neutral position
> >
> > On 8 April 2017 at 20:32, Fæ  wrote:
> >
> >> Thanks for the French experience. :-) You may not have picked up on
> >> the specific comment about the French Wikipedia a few days ago in the
> >> general Wikimedia Commons Village Pump discussion:[1]
> >>
> >> "* Total Support. This is not only useful to the trans community, but
> >> in the case of French, it is more inclusive for women also, as the
> >> French (I'm writing French and this does not mean francophone) have
> >> the disastrous tendency to masculinize everything pretending this is
> >> the way the french grammar addresses "gender neutrality in French". I
> >> would really like us to reflect on writing a best practice manual for
> >> all those who want to have an inclusive language (coupled with a non
> >> violent communication guide for online practices). Actually on the
> >> French wikipedia, most pronouns are in the masculine form even on talk
> >> / user / help pages, and when one raises the issue, one gets insults
> >> and very silly remarks. --Nattes à chat"
> >>
> >> It is sad to see that the local community has difficulty staying
> >> respectful or even civil when these gender related discussions arise,
> >> and should be a welcoming and open debate about the facts for modern
> >> language usage. There are no easy solutions, apart from persisting,
> >> keeping the topic on our agenda, and gradually educating where we can,
> >> even though this gets very tiring for our best volunteers!
> >>
> >> The French Wikipedia is not alone, and I have been told over the last
> >> week of exactly the same problem of "silly comments" on the German
> >> Wikipedia, and my experience with raising a Request for Comment
> >> yesterday on the English Wikipedia[2] is that discussions on this do
> >> include critical views being expressed, which is okay, in a
> >> disrespectful way, which is definitely not okay! It's a shame that
> >> even some administrators will defend intentionally disrespectful
> >> comments as so-called "free speech", rather than a breach of our
> >> civility policies or the basic WMF terms of use for our websites.[3]
> >>
> >> P.S. Florence, your email gets automatically put in spam when using
> >> Google's email system. I'm not even sure how to stop that happening
> >> for yahoo addresses to this list.
> >>
> >> Links
> >> 1. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Village_pump#
> >> Defaulting_to_gender_neutral_language_in_policies_and_help_pages
> >> 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Fae/RFC_GNL
> >> 3. https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Terms_of_Use
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Fae
> >>
> >> On 7 April 2017 at 20:58, Florence Devouard  wrote:
> >> > A couple of weeks ago, I was asked - in my capacity of meta admin - to
> >> > change the phrasing of a site notice on meta, meant to call for
> >> > participation to the month of Francophonie.
> >> >
> >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:
> >> Centralnotice-template-WikiFranca_MC17=prev=16482259
> >> >
> >> > The sentence of the call in the site notice was in language neutral
> >> > 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Let's go gender neutral

2017-04-12 Thread
I am delighted to say that Wikimedia Commons is today the /first/
project to have an official Gender-neutral language policy for its
policies and help pages, so that the project is a welcoming
environment for all. Thanks to everyone that took part in the
discussions and vote!

* https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Use_of_gender_neutral_language *

The proposal was an unplanned outcome from the WM-LGBT+ user group
taking part in this year's Wikimedia Conference in Berlin, part of all
the creative discussions that go on when so many international
Wikimedians get together.

If you missed it, the English Wikipedia has an ongoing 'lively'
Request for Comment for its own Gender-neutral policy for policies,
see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Fae/RFC_GNL

Thanks
Fae
Wikmedia LGBT+ https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_LGBT+
https://telegram.me/wmlgbt

On 8 April 2017 at 14:04, Gnangarra  wrote:
> I beg to differ with Anders final comment;
>
>>
>> And our standpoint is that we as Wikipedians should not be first in
>> introducing new use of language but wait until it has become mainstream (if
>> it ever will be)
>
>
> I have no issue within our policies and projects being a leader the use of
> neutral language that encompasses all equally because neutrality is one of
> the key pillars of the community.  We can and must do better to ensure that
> everyone has the ability to contribute on an equal basis.
>
> If a language doesnt have a gender neutral way to express an individual
> then we should be encouraging speakers to find alternative ways which can
> best express our neutral position
>
> On 8 April 2017 at 20:32, Fæ  wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the French experience. :-) You may not have picked up on
>> the specific comment about the French Wikipedia a few days ago in the
>> general Wikimedia Commons Village Pump discussion:[1]
>>
>> "* Total Support. This is not only useful to the trans community, but
>> in the case of French, it is more inclusive for women also, as the
>> French (I'm writing French and this does not mean francophone) have
>> the disastrous tendency to masculinize everything pretending this is
>> the way the french grammar addresses "gender neutrality in French". I
>> would really like us to reflect on writing a best practice manual for
>> all those who want to have an inclusive language (coupled with a non
>> violent communication guide for online practices). Actually on the
>> French wikipedia, most pronouns are in the masculine form even on talk
>> / user / help pages, and when one raises the issue, one gets insults
>> and very silly remarks. --Nattes à chat"
>>
>> It is sad to see that the local community has difficulty staying
>> respectful or even civil when these gender related discussions arise,
>> and should be a welcoming and open debate about the facts for modern
>> language usage. There are no easy solutions, apart from persisting,
>> keeping the topic on our agenda, and gradually educating where we can,
>> even though this gets very tiring for our best volunteers!
>>
>> The French Wikipedia is not alone, and I have been told over the last
>> week of exactly the same problem of "silly comments" on the German
>> Wikipedia, and my experience with raising a Request for Comment
>> yesterday on the English Wikipedia[2] is that discussions on this do
>> include critical views being expressed, which is okay, in a
>> disrespectful way, which is definitely not okay! It's a shame that
>> even some administrators will defend intentionally disrespectful
>> comments as so-called "free speech", rather than a breach of our
>> civility policies or the basic WMF terms of use for our websites.[3]
>>
>> P.S. Florence, your email gets automatically put in spam when using
>> Google's email system. I'm not even sure how to stop that happening
>> for yahoo addresses to this list.
>>
>> Links
>> 1. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Village_pump#
>> Defaulting_to_gender_neutral_language_in_policies_and_help_pages
>> 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Fae/RFC_GNL
>> 3. https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Terms_of_Use
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Fae
>>
>> On 7 April 2017 at 20:58, Florence Devouard  wrote:
>> > A couple of weeks ago, I was asked - in my capacity of meta admin - to
>> > change the phrasing of a site notice on meta, meant to call for
>> > participation to the month of Francophonie.
>> >
>> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:
>> Centralnotice-template-WikiFranca_MC17=prev=16482259
>> >
>> > The sentence of the call in the site notice was in language neutral
>> > terminology.
>> >
>> > "les Wikimédien.nes" instead of the more traditionnal but non neutral
>> "les
>> > Wikimédiens".
>> >
>> > That phrasing raised an uproar on the French pump. So I replaced the
>> term by
>> > "nous" (we). Seems to settle things.
>> >
>> > Clearly the French speaking community is not ready to adopt the gender
>> > neutral