Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reviewing our brand system for our 2030 goals

2019-04-18 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Jennifer, So you did not say it because you did not do the researce but when a minority of our community does not identify themselves as "Wikipedians" it does not matter. Sorry, but that is EXACTLY what I said. What you indicate is that a minority may be ignored. Why else do "the research" but to

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reviewing our brand system for our 2030 goals

2019-04-18 Thread rupert THURNER
On Thu, Apr 18, 2019 at 7:33 PM James Heilman wrote: > With respect to popularity per Alexa: > > Wikipedia is 5th > Wikimedia is 276 (includes both Commons and Wikispecies) > Wiktionary is 432 > Wikibooks is 1,892 > Wikisource is 2,790 > Wikiquote is 3,953 > Wikidata is 8,848 > Wikiversity is

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reviewing our brand system for our 2030 goals

2019-04-18 Thread Jennifer Pryor-Summers
James Readership and writership -- to coin a phrase -- aren't the same thing. English-language Wikipedia may be the fifth-most visited website in the world, but it has major problems, for example, over a million un- or badly-referenced articles, as revealed in a recent WMF Research paper and

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reviewing our brand system for our 2030 goals

2019-04-18 Thread James Heilman
With respect to popularity per Alexa: Wikipedia is 5th Wikimedia is 276 (includes both Commons and Wikispecies) Wiktionary is 432 Wikibooks is 1,892 Wikisource is 2,790 Wikiquote is 3,953 Wikidata is 8,848 Wikiversity is 9,372 (includes Wiki Journals) Wikivoyage is 14,850 Wikinews is 60,829

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Supporting Wikinews [was: Reviewing our brand system for our 2030 goals]

2019-04-18 Thread Jennifer Pryor-Summers
Peter Our brand is already on it in these cases, and yes it would be sending a > message - "We want you to risk your time and effort on our projects but we > may later decide to discard everything you worked for" > I don;t think "discard" is right. The message would be "... but if it doesn't

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reviewing our brand system for our 2030 goals

2019-04-18 Thread Jennifer Pryor-Summers
Gerard > > So it is ok to deny the minority that insists they are not? > > I didn't say that at all. I merely suggest that the reality is that the majority of volunteers take a certain view of themselves (that they are Wikpedians first and foremost ), and that the ones who take a different view

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Supporting Wikinews [was: Reviewing our brand system for our 2030 goals]

2019-04-18 Thread Vi to
Wait, wait. The risk to shut down to get enough consensus to shut down a project with an active community which is not systematically violating any fundamental principle is zero. Vito Il giorno gio 18 apr 2019 alle ore 10:45 Peter Southwood < peter.southw...@telkomsa.net> ha scritto: > The

[Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Summit 2019: Report available on Meta

2019-04-18 Thread Cornelius Kibelka
Dear Wikimedians, As you may have noticed, almost three weeks ago, the Wikimedia Summit 2019 ( w.wiki/38b) took place in Berlin. Over three days, representatives from Wikimedia affiliates, the Wikimedia Foundation, and three Wikimedia committees came together with members of nine movement

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reviewing our brand system for our 2030 goals

2019-04-18 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi, So it is ok to deny the minority that insists they are not? Thanks, GerardM On Thu, 18 Apr 2019 at 08:32, Jennifer Pryor-Summers < jennifer.pryorsumm...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > You can't be a member of "The Wikipedia Movement". > > > > > I suggest that this claimed impossibility

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Supporting Wikinews [was: Reviewing our brand system for our 2030 goals]

2019-04-18 Thread Peter Southwood
The difference here being that it is not a professional system. If you mess with the crowd the crowd does not generally go where you prefer it to, it goes home. Other potential contributors see what has been done, and decide not to waste their efforts where outsiders can throw their work away.

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Supporting Wikinews [was: Reviewing our brand system for our 2030 goals]

2019-04-18 Thread Peter Southwood
Our brand is already on it in these cases, and yes it would be sending a message - "We want you to risk your time and effort on our projects but we may later decide to discard everything you worked for" Cheers, P -Original Message- From: Wikimedia-l

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reviewing our brand system for our 2030 goals

2019-04-18 Thread Peter Southwood
Good arguments, Peter -Original Message- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of FT2 Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2019 4:54 AM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reviewing our brand system for our 2030 goals I agree with both views

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reviewing our brand system for our 2030 goals

2019-04-18 Thread FT2
I don't think we get to make grand claims about what "the vast majority" think, without some good basis for it. More pragmatically, I suspect that most editors think of themselves as Wikipedia/other project *editors*. But those who truly think of themselves as members of a *movement* - our GLAM

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reviewing our brand system for our 2030 goals

2019-04-18 Thread Jennifer Pryor-Summers
> > > You can't be a member of "The Wikipedia Movement". > > I suggest that this claimed impossibility is in fact exactly what the vast majority of the volunteers believe that they are. JPS ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Supporting Wikinews [was: Reviewing our brand system for our 2030 goals]

2019-04-18 Thread Jennifer Pryor-Summers
Dan I've not seen any proposals involving shutting down projects without > community involvement, so hopefully you shouldn't need to worry about this. > The problem with failing projects like Wikinews and Wikiversity is that there is not a critical mass in their community. I wouldn't go so far