Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some goodbye to all

2019-06-20 Thread Natacha Rault via Wikimedia-l
First of all I don’t know the context of this conversation. I know that I 
personnally find that the actions of  Trust& Safety  very valuable and wise. I 
totally support and trust their judgement. 

I am tired of seing their work criticized, and do not appreciate official 
chapter representants and employees publicly supporting alleged offenders, 
showing no aknowledgement of the fact that this is very toxic for alleged 
victims, and does not help to change attitude towards issues of harrassment. 

How can we feel safe in the movement if the decisions of T are questionned by 
official members of our movement? 

Nattes à chat





Le 21 juin 2019 à 01:04, Chris Keating  a écrit :

>> 
>> It is extremely disappointing, and *extremely typical* of the Wikimedia
>> movement, to see an entire thread like this dedicated to supporting someone
>> who Trust & Safety has found to have acted in such a way that they had to
>> intervene. It is even more disappointing to see a person who was affected
>> by his actions told "this is not your story" and "it may help you when you
>> grow some sensitivity and respect this experience, the
>> feelings of others."
>> 
>> If you're wondering why women leave the Wikimedia movement, and why
>> Wikimedia has such a bad harassment problem in general, just reflect on
>> this thread.
> 
> 
> Thank you, Molly, for expressing what I was just trying to summon the
> energy to write.
> 
> Chris
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Foundation management of volunteers

2019-06-20 Thread Mister Thrapostibongles
Martin


> No, I'm saying that it's ridiculous to judge wikipedia on its policy that
> citing itself is disallowed.
>

Perhaps, then, rather than telling us what it is that you don't agree with,
you would like to propound your own position, and in your own words.  Do
you believe that Wikipedia is a success?  That it merits the description
of "encyclopaedia"?  In particular that it is reliable?

Thrapostibongles
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] New Code of Conduct committee candidates

2019-06-20 Thread Thomas Townsend
Amir

May we not know the real names of the committee members, as opposed to
their pseudonyms?  Surely that is necessary, both as a matter of
general principle, and specifically in case it were ever to turn out
that a member of the committee might be involved in a complaint.

The Turnip

On Thu, 20 Jun 2019 at 10:39, Amir Sarabadani  wrote:
>
> Hello everyone,
> The deadline for the public feedback was yesterday. Some objections have
> raised but committee decided not to change the structure of committee and
> its candidates. It means the new committee with the given members starts
> serving as of today until 19 June 2020.
>
> Please join me on thanking Nuria and Rosalie for their service and welcome
> Tonina and MusikAnimal to the main members of the committee.
>
> Best
>
> On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 9:13 PM Amir Sarabadani  wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> > The committee has finished selecting new members and the new committee
> > candidates are (In alphabetical order):
> >
> >- Amir Sarabadani
> >- Lucie-Aimée Kaffee
> >- MusikAnimal
> >- Tonina Zhelyazkova
> >- Tony Thomas
> >
> > And auxiliary members will be (In alphabetical order):
> >
> >- Huji
> >- Matanya
> >- Nuria Ruiz
> >- Rosalie Perside
> >- Tpt
> >
> > You can read more about the members in [0]
> >
> > The changes are:
> > * Nuria and Rosalie are moving from main member to auxilary members
> > * MusikAnimal is moving from auxilary member to main
> > * Tonina Zhelyazkova is joining the main members
> >
> > This is not the final structure. According to the CoC [1], the current
> > committee publishes the new members and call for public feedback for *six
> > weeks* and after that, the current committtee might apply changes to the
> > structure based on public feedback.
> >
> > Please let the committee know if you have any concern regarding the
> > members and its structure until *19 June 2019* and after that, the new
> > committee will be in effect and will serve for a year.
> >
> > [0]:
> > https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Code_of_Conduct/Committee/Members/Candidates
> > [1]:
> > https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Code_of_Conduct/Committee#Selection_of_new_members
> >
> > Amir, On behalf of the Code of Conduct committee
> > Best
> >
> >
>
> --
> Amir (he/him)
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[Wikimedia-l] New board for Wikimedia Belgium + evaluation behaviour WMF

2019-06-20 Thread Geert Van Pamel
The initial message was a private message from Romaine (WMBE Board member)
on his own initiative; not verified, nor approved by (the Board of)
Wikimedia Belgium. Please read this reply carefully in order to try to bring
more clarity.

I have immediately notified Romaine that he abused his function in the WMBE
Board to communicate private matters on the general mailinglist. 

Since Monday I am in private contact, both with T and the management of
Wikimedia Nederland to follow-up this dispute. This caused delay in replying
to this message. The Wikimedia Belgium Board will continue to evaluate the
situation and take further measures.

Wikimedia Belgium wants to apologize for any moral damage that the initial
message provoked.

What one member of the general assembly did propose is that an internal
audit could be requested to investigate the general behavior, the working,
the completeness of procedures, and the treatment of cases by the Trust and
Safety (T), and the grants team.

Specifically, we have encountered as a chapter repeatedly during the last
several years a lack of appeal, both in the T complaints handling, and in
the grants team handling sAPG requests.

Specifically in the T handling procedures, the rights of the alleged
offender are not sufficiently guaranteed. There is a possibility that rumors
are invoking a punishment without careful verification of the facts, without
the defendants being sanctioned in a neutral way, and without taking into
account certain handicaps like hard-hearing, or autism. 

That being said, please stop discussing this specific conflict publicly,
because a lot of important details are missing, are single-sided
interpretations, or even completely wrong.

 

-- Geert Van Pamel, chair of Wikimedia Belgium

 

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WikiJournals: A proposal to become a new sister project

2019-06-20 Thread Amirouche Boubekki
Hello,


I am new to the mailing list and more generaly on wikipedia as contributor
and as student in wikiversity.

I did not know about WikiJournals as part of Wikiversity. My only remark
will be that the wikiveristy
PhD program is in poor shape. I was lost in the various tools I had to use
and broken links.
Most if not all conversation are old-ish and doesn't say the PhD program is
active or working
at all. (French wikiveristy is in much better shape).

I am certain that the implementation of wikijournal as sister project will
have more impact for WikiJournal.
My point is with a better english wikiversity, both could have more impact.


I think, forking wikijournals outside wikiverity will have a bad impact on
wikiversity.

Also, is it possible to write a publication in the journal without prior
PhD?
Can publication in the wikijournal help obtain the wikiveristy PhD?

Thanks!

Amirouche ~ amz3
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some goodbye to all

2019-06-20 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi,
You do not get it. For me this is about saying goodbye. Saying goodbye to
someone I/we truly value. Saying goodbye to someone who we owe gratitude.
This was not allowed to be, we say goodbye and we are told that we are
wrong because a situation where the POV expressed is that we cannot say
goodbye, express our gratitude because they are / feel aggrieved.

I have no opinion on why this situation exists, what transpired. What I
object to is that there is no room given for our feeling of loss. That is
an injustice in its own right.
Thanks,
   GerardM

On Fri, 21 Jun 2019 at 00:26, Pierre-Selim  wrote:

> Her POV ?
>
> Well I can confirm what Caroline said.
>
> What more do you want ? To verify all other reports ?
>
> It's sad that things have escalated this far, but may be it's time to
> wonder why it escalated like that. There was multiple incidents reported.
> Things that should have stayed private were told on this mailing list by
> Romaine... well when do we stop this ?
>
> Please keep in mind when you cast your support here that people who have
> reported Romaine might be reading this.
>
> Le jeu. 20 juin 2019 à 23:12, Gerard Meijssen 
> a
> écrit :
>
> > Caroline,
> > For me this is not your story. Your insistence of making it so has quite
> > the opposite effect. I have known Romaine, the tireless efforts for us
> all
> > he has given us over the years, I grieve for our collective loss. I do
> not
> > know you and you are intruding on what is a feeling shared by many. It
> may
> > help you when you grow some sensitivity and respect this experience, the
> > feelings of others. Maybe it is too difficult for you, I do not know as I
> > do not know you at all.
> >
> > What I wonder is to what extend do you know Romaine, to what extend are
> you
> > stuck in your pov.
> > Thanks,
> >  GerardM
> >
> > On Thu, 20 Jun 2019 at 19:00, Caroline Becker 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > This is such a lost. Not only did you waisted an opportunity to learn
> and
> > > grow from your mistakes the first time, you reiterate here, showing no
> > > willingness to grow and learn.
> > >
> > > But why would you take the difficult path, when by just claiming your
> > right
> > > to "weirdness" (which I guess only apply to you and none to the people
> > you
> > > hurt), you're rewarding with public support ?
> > >
> > > Caroline
> > >
> > >
> > > Le jeu. 20 juin 2019 à 18:55, Dennis During  a
> > écrit :
> > >
> > > > I am ashamed that the movement has a climate that allows this
> > unfortunate
> > > > outcome
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 7:15 AM Romaine Wiki  >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >  Dear community,
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > About a month ago I have decided that I will indefinitely no longer
> > > > attend
> > > > > any WMF funded events as result of bullying, attempts to silence
> me,
> > > > > intimidation and treats against me. This has resulted in that I
> feel
> > > > > extremely unsafe as the result of the behaviour of only a few
> > > > individuals.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Dennis C. During
> > > > ___
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> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some goodbye to all

2019-06-20 Thread GorillaWarfare
Well, no, this is the team that banned an en.wp admin for reasons they are
not able to disclose. It is only community speculation based on a portion
of an email sent to the banned user that has led people to draw the same
conclusion as you, and I suspect that is not the full story. That, however,
is probably a conversation for a different thread, although there are
overlapping themes in that someone who has allegedly done something(s)
negative towards at least one member of our community is being
wholeheartedly defended (and the alleged target vilified) by a community
that does not know the whole story.

- Molly White (GorillaWarfare)

On Thu, Jun 20, 2019, 7:12 PM Nathan  wrote:

> This is the
> same team that took the extraordinary and unique step of banning an en.wp
> admin for saying "fuck arbcom", apparently not anticipating or taking any
> steps to mitigate the inevitable blowback.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some goodbye to all

2019-06-20 Thread effe iets anders
Gerard, I think your comment is highly inappropriate. I don't generally
like to pile on, but this needs calling out. When discussing these
sensitive topics, the very least we can expect, is a careful approach to
the matter.

I don't know the underlying situation well enough to establish who's right,
to verify claims or to find whether the actions taken are reasonable (be it
towards Romaine or towards the complainants). I can only assume you have
roughly the same amount of information - and in such a situation a level of
humility would be fitting.

We can discuss process, but should never say that involved parties 'make
this about themselves'. Leave that determination to those who are actually
familiar with all the facts.

Lodewijk

On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 4:03 PM Philip Kopetzky 
wrote:

> Thanks Molly for your thoughtful words, I really hope your words make some
> people think about their own replies in this thread.
>
> On Thu, 20 Jun 2019 at 23:42, GorillaWarfare <
> gorillawarfarewikipe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I do not know Romaine, I do not know Caroline, and I do not know much
> about
> > the events that have led up to all of this other than what has been said
> on
> > this mailing list. It is easy to take sides in cases like these, based on
> > who you know best, your past experiences with that person, and a
> multitude
> > of other reasons. I suspect no one truly knows the whole story (even the
> > folks who were directly involved—after all, you can never know the
> > intentions of another person, or how they are interpreting your own
> > actions). But what we do know is that some actions Romaine took led to
> > Trust & Safety deciding they needed to intervene. They are tasked with
> > keeping people within our movement safe, both online and in person at
> > events. In my experience they do an extremely good job.
> >
> > It is extremely disappointing, and *extremely typical* of the Wikimedia
> > movement, to see an entire thread like this dedicated to supporting
> someone
> > who Trust & Safety has found to have acted in such a way that they had to
> > intervene. It is even more disappointing to see a person who was affected
> > by his actions told "this is not your story" and "it may help you when
> you
> > grow some sensitivity and respect this experience, the
> > feelings of others."
> >
> > If you're wondering why women leave the Wikimedia movement, and why
> > Wikimedia has such a bad harassment problem in general, just reflect on
> > this thread.
> >
> > – Molly (GorillaWarfare)
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:GorillaWarfare
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 6:26 PM Pierre-Selim 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Her POV ?
> > >
> > > Well I can confirm what Caroline said.
> > >
> > > What more do you want ? To verify all other reports ?
> > >
> > > It's sad that things have escalated this far, but may be it's time to
> > > wonder why it escalated like that. There was multiple incidents
> reported.
> > > Things that should have stayed private were told on this mailing list
> by
> > > Romaine... well when do we stop this ?
> > >
> > > Please keep in mind when you cast your support here that people who
> have
> > > reported Romaine might be reading this.
> > >
> > > Le jeu. 20 juin 2019 à 23:12, Gerard Meijssen <
> gerard.meijs...@gmail.com
> > >
> > > a
> > > écrit :
> > >
> > > > Caroline,
> > > > For me this is not your story. Your insistence of making it so has
> > quite
> > > > the opposite effect. I have known Romaine, the tireless efforts for
> us
> > > all
> > > > he has given us over the years, I grieve for our collective loss. I
> do
> > > not
> > > > know you and you are intruding on what is a feeling shared by many.
> It
> > > may
> > > > help you when you grow some sensitivity and respect this experience,
> > the
> > > > feelings of others. Maybe it is too difficult for you, I do not know
> > as I
> > > > do not know you at all.
> > > >
> > > > What I wonder is to what extend do you know Romaine, to what extend
> are
> > > you
> > > > stuck in your pov.
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >  GerardM
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, 20 Jun 2019 at 19:00, Caroline Becker <
> carobecke...@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > This is such a lost. Not only did you waisted an opportunity to
> learn
> > > and
> > > > > grow from your mistakes the first time, you reiterate here, showing
> > no
> > > > > willingness to grow and learn.
> > > > >
> > > > > But why would you take the difficult path, when by just claiming
> your
> > > > right
> > > > > to "weirdness" (which I guess only apply to you and none to the
> > people
> > > > you
> > > > > hurt), you're rewarding with public support ?
> > > > >
> > > > > Caroline
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Le jeu. 20 juin 2019 à 18:55, Dennis During  a
> > > > écrit :
> > > > >
> > > > > > I am ashamed that the movement has a climate that allows this
> > > > unfortunate
> > > > > > outcome
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 7:15 AM Romaine Wiki <
> > 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some goodbye to all

2019-06-20 Thread Nathan
I think it's OK to mourn the loss of someone's future contributions and
participation, without purporting to make a decision on the substance of
any accusations. I read Romaine's e-mail and thought it sad that he felt it
necessary to withdraw. I also am not blindly trusting of T This is the
same team that took the extraordinary and unique step of banning an en.wp
admin for saying "fuck arbcom", apparently not anticipating or taking any
steps to mitigate the inevitable blowback.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some goodbye to all

2019-06-20 Thread Chris Keating
>
> It is extremely disappointing, and *extremely typical* of the Wikimedia
> movement, to see an entire thread like this dedicated to supporting someone
> who Trust & Safety has found to have acted in such a way that they had to
> intervene. It is even more disappointing to see a person who was affected
> by his actions told "this is not your story" and "it may help you when you
> grow some sensitivity and respect this experience, the
> feelings of others."
>
> If you're wondering why women leave the Wikimedia movement, and why
> Wikimedia has such a bad harassment problem in general, just reflect on
> this thread.


Thank you, Molly, for expressing what I was just trying to summon the
energy to write.

Chris
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some goodbye to all

2019-06-20 Thread Philip Kopetzky
Thanks Molly for your thoughtful words, I really hope your words make some
people think about their own replies in this thread.

On Thu, 20 Jun 2019 at 23:42, GorillaWarfare <
gorillawarfarewikipe...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I do not know Romaine, I do not know Caroline, and I do not know much about
> the events that have led up to all of this other than what has been said on
> this mailing list. It is easy to take sides in cases like these, based on
> who you know best, your past experiences with that person, and a multitude
> of other reasons. I suspect no one truly knows the whole story (even the
> folks who were directly involved—after all, you can never know the
> intentions of another person, or how they are interpreting your own
> actions). But what we do know is that some actions Romaine took led to
> Trust & Safety deciding they needed to intervene. They are tasked with
> keeping people within our movement safe, both online and in person at
> events. In my experience they do an extremely good job.
>
> It is extremely disappointing, and *extremely typical* of the Wikimedia
> movement, to see an entire thread like this dedicated to supporting someone
> who Trust & Safety has found to have acted in such a way that they had to
> intervene. It is even more disappointing to see a person who was affected
> by his actions told "this is not your story" and "it may help you when you
> grow some sensitivity and respect this experience, the
> feelings of others."
>
> If you're wondering why women leave the Wikimedia movement, and why
> Wikimedia has such a bad harassment problem in general, just reflect on
> this thread.
>
> – Molly (GorillaWarfare)
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:GorillaWarfare
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 6:26 PM Pierre-Selim 
> wrote:
>
> > Her POV ?
> >
> > Well I can confirm what Caroline said.
> >
> > What more do you want ? To verify all other reports ?
> >
> > It's sad that things have escalated this far, but may be it's time to
> > wonder why it escalated like that. There was multiple incidents reported.
> > Things that should have stayed private were told on this mailing list by
> > Romaine... well when do we stop this ?
> >
> > Please keep in mind when you cast your support here that people who have
> > reported Romaine might be reading this.
> >
> > Le jeu. 20 juin 2019 à 23:12, Gerard Meijssen  >
> > a
> > écrit :
> >
> > > Caroline,
> > > For me this is not your story. Your insistence of making it so has
> quite
> > > the opposite effect. I have known Romaine, the tireless efforts for us
> > all
> > > he has given us over the years, I grieve for our collective loss. I do
> > not
> > > know you and you are intruding on what is a feeling shared by many. It
> > may
> > > help you when you grow some sensitivity and respect this experience,
> the
> > > feelings of others. Maybe it is too difficult for you, I do not know
> as I
> > > do not know you at all.
> > >
> > > What I wonder is to what extend do you know Romaine, to what extend are
> > you
> > > stuck in your pov.
> > > Thanks,
> > >  GerardM
> > >
> > > On Thu, 20 Jun 2019 at 19:00, Caroline Becker 
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > This is such a lost. Not only did you waisted an opportunity to learn
> > and
> > > > grow from your mistakes the first time, you reiterate here, showing
> no
> > > > willingness to grow and learn.
> > > >
> > > > But why would you take the difficult path, when by just claiming your
> > > right
> > > > to "weirdness" (which I guess only apply to you and none to the
> people
> > > you
> > > > hurt), you're rewarding with public support ?
> > > >
> > > > Caroline
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Le jeu. 20 juin 2019 à 18:55, Dennis During  a
> > > écrit :
> > > >
> > > > > I am ashamed that the movement has a climate that allows this
> > > unfortunate
> > > > > outcome
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 7:15 AM Romaine Wiki <
> romaine.w...@gmail.com
> > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >  Dear community,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > About a month ago I have decided that I will indefinitely no
> longer
> > > > > attend
> > > > > > any WMF funded events as result of bullying, attempts to silence
> > me,
> > > > > > intimidation and treats against me. This has resulted in that I
> > feel
> > > > > > extremely unsafe as the result of the behaviour of only a few
> > > > > individuals.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Dennis C. During
> > > > > ___
> > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > >  ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > ___
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some goodbye to all

2019-06-20 Thread GorillaWarfare
I do not know Romaine, I do not know Caroline, and I do not know much about
the events that have led up to all of this other than what has been said on
this mailing list. It is easy to take sides in cases like these, based on
who you know best, your past experiences with that person, and a multitude
of other reasons. I suspect no one truly knows the whole story (even the
folks who were directly involved—after all, you can never know the
intentions of another person, or how they are interpreting your own
actions). But what we do know is that some actions Romaine took led to
Trust & Safety deciding they needed to intervene. They are tasked with
keeping people within our movement safe, both online and in person at
events. In my experience they do an extremely good job.

It is extremely disappointing, and *extremely typical* of the Wikimedia
movement, to see an entire thread like this dedicated to supporting someone
who Trust & Safety has found to have acted in such a way that they had to
intervene. It is even more disappointing to see a person who was affected
by his actions told "this is not your story" and "it may help you when you
grow some sensitivity and respect this experience, the
feelings of others."

If you're wondering why women leave the Wikimedia movement, and why
Wikimedia has such a bad harassment problem in general, just reflect on
this thread.

– Molly (GorillaWarfare)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:GorillaWarfare


On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 6:26 PM Pierre-Selim 
wrote:

> Her POV ?
>
> Well I can confirm what Caroline said.
>
> What more do you want ? To verify all other reports ?
>
> It's sad that things have escalated this far, but may be it's time to
> wonder why it escalated like that. There was multiple incidents reported.
> Things that should have stayed private were told on this mailing list by
> Romaine... well when do we stop this ?
>
> Please keep in mind when you cast your support here that people who have
> reported Romaine might be reading this.
>
> Le jeu. 20 juin 2019 à 23:12, Gerard Meijssen 
> a
> écrit :
>
> > Caroline,
> > For me this is not your story. Your insistence of making it so has quite
> > the opposite effect. I have known Romaine, the tireless efforts for us
> all
> > he has given us over the years, I grieve for our collective loss. I do
> not
> > know you and you are intruding on what is a feeling shared by many. It
> may
> > help you when you grow some sensitivity and respect this experience, the
> > feelings of others. Maybe it is too difficult for you, I do not know as I
> > do not know you at all.
> >
> > What I wonder is to what extend do you know Romaine, to what extend are
> you
> > stuck in your pov.
> > Thanks,
> >  GerardM
> >
> > On Thu, 20 Jun 2019 at 19:00, Caroline Becker 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > This is such a lost. Not only did you waisted an opportunity to learn
> and
> > > grow from your mistakes the first time, you reiterate here, showing no
> > > willingness to grow and learn.
> > >
> > > But why would you take the difficult path, when by just claiming your
> > right
> > > to "weirdness" (which I guess only apply to you and none to the people
> > you
> > > hurt), you're rewarding with public support ?
> > >
> > > Caroline
> > >
> > >
> > > Le jeu. 20 juin 2019 à 18:55, Dennis During  a
> > écrit :
> > >
> > > > I am ashamed that the movement has a climate that allows this
> > unfortunate
> > > > outcome
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 7:15 AM Romaine Wiki  >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >  Dear community,
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > About a month ago I have decided that I will indefinitely no longer
> > > > attend
> > > > > any WMF funded events as result of bullying, attempts to silence
> me,
> > > > > intimidation and treats against me. This has resulted in that I
> feel
> > > > > extremely unsafe as the result of the behaviour of only a few
> > > > individuals.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Dennis C. During
> > > > ___
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > 
> > > ___
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > 
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some goodbye to all

2019-06-20 Thread Pierre-Selim
Her POV ?

Well I can confirm what Caroline said.

What more do you want ? To verify all other reports ?

It's sad that things have escalated this far, but may be it's time to
wonder why it escalated like that. There was multiple incidents reported.
Things that should have stayed private were told on this mailing list by
Romaine... well when do we stop this ?

Please keep in mind when you cast your support here that people who have
reported Romaine might be reading this.

Le jeu. 20 juin 2019 à 23:12, Gerard Meijssen  a
écrit :

> Caroline,
> For me this is not your story. Your insistence of making it so has quite
> the opposite effect. I have known Romaine, the tireless efforts for us all
> he has given us over the years, I grieve for our collective loss. I do not
> know you and you are intruding on what is a feeling shared by many. It may
> help you when you grow some sensitivity and respect this experience, the
> feelings of others. Maybe it is too difficult for you, I do not know as I
> do not know you at all.
>
> What I wonder is to what extend do you know Romaine, to what extend are you
> stuck in your pov.
> Thanks,
>  GerardM
>
> On Thu, 20 Jun 2019 at 19:00, Caroline Becker 
> wrote:
>
> > This is such a lost. Not only did you waisted an opportunity to learn and
> > grow from your mistakes the first time, you reiterate here, showing no
> > willingness to grow and learn.
> >
> > But why would you take the difficult path, when by just claiming your
> right
> > to "weirdness" (which I guess only apply to you and none to the people
> you
> > hurt), you're rewarding with public support ?
> >
> > Caroline
> >
> >
> > Le jeu. 20 juin 2019 à 18:55, Dennis During  a
> écrit :
> >
> > > I am ashamed that the movement has a climate that allows this
> unfortunate
> > > outcome
> > >
> > > On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 7:15 AM Romaine Wiki 
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >  Dear community,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > About a month ago I have decided that I will indefinitely no longer
> > > attend
> > > > any WMF funded events as result of bullying, attempts to silence me,
> > > > intimidation and treats against me. This has resulted in that I feel
> > > > extremely unsafe as the result of the behaviour of only a few
> > > individuals.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > --
> > > Dennis C. During
> > > ___
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > 
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some goodbye to all

2019-06-20 Thread Paulo Santos Perneta
I am very sad and depressed with this outcome, especially with someone as
Romaine, which I am quite lucky to know personally.

And it is very true that now one has to have eyes in their back and be
extra careful when going to WMF run events, as the risk of abuse of T is
quite real.

Dangerous times.

Paulo

Romaine Wiki  escreveu no dia quinta, 20/06/2019
à(s) 12:15:

>  Dear community,
>
> First I need to mention that the message I sent a few days ago had too
> limited information regarding the context of the message. The e-mail was
> written by me personally alone, written from my perspective. The email
> contained an overview what has happened, written based on e-mails and
> eyewitnesses. So if anyone would say it is not true, please add {{Citation
> needed}} to that person's saying.
>
>
>
>
> About a month ago I have decided that I will indefinitely no longer attend
> any WMF funded events as result of bullying, attempts to silence me,
> intimidation and treats against me. This has resulted in that I feel
> extremely unsafe as the result of the behaviour of only a few individuals.
>
> This has lead that since the start of this occurring about 18 months ago I
> have been over a dozen of times very ill, while I was in the 10 years
> before only twice that ill.
>
> I see no indication that the issues addressed are taken seriously, so I see
> no safe space for me to be present. In my childhood I was bullied for being
> different, I am not interested in a second episode now.
>
>
>
>
> From my parents I have learned to lend others always a helping hand where I
> can. As such I was happy to be able to help the organisers of various
> conferences and I always tried to make it a comfortable place for everyone.
>
> To my regret I have been informed that some people have indicated that I
> have given them an unpleasant feeling. You must know that I never ever had
> such intention (also still largely unsure what of me has given you this
> emotion) and I am feeling bad that I gave you such feeling. My apologies!
>
>
> Some people have indicated with last year's conference that they had an
> impression of me while I never ever had intended as such. In the past
> period I have been thinking about it what would make some people think that
> I gave that impression. This includes that some people think that I was
> flirting or something with other people, while I actually had no interest
> in the other.
>
> I suspect it might have something to do that I almost never really
> introduced myself as I always thought that widely diverse people in our
> movement would respect me in my diversity.
>
>
> Perhaps it is good to create some clarity. Traditionally looking, I
> understand people expect me as "man" to fall on women, but I do not fall on
> the women present at the conferences, as well as that I have a different
> gender identification. In other words: LGBT+   Also I am autistic, having
> aspergers, having sensory overloads, being claustrophobic, having a hearing
> problem, avoiding touching, having an eidetic memory (photographic memory),
> etc, being divergent in comparison to many others, I am feeling a bit
> socially clumsy.
>
> The first 8 years in the wiki world I was not feeling safe to meet anyone.
> In 2011 I visited the first wiki event when Wikipedia celebrated its 10th
> birthday. I felt more and more safe and joined more events. You might have
> seen me with my large enthusiasm as I feel by providing knowledge to the
> world, we make the world a better place for anyone. Now 8 years later I am
> leaving as I am not feeling safe again.
>
> But please, do not get me wrong. I live in a country that would probably
> win the world championships in complaining. I believe everyone has the
> right to complain, as that I see as part of the basic rights of freedom of
> expression and thought. It matters however what happens next with
> complaints. Every complaint should be judged by independent individuals,
> with impartiality, without also any *appearance* of partiality, with taking
> into account *all* information, with care and respect to all individuals
> involved. (etc) Also anyone has the right to defend themselves against
> allegations *before* conclusions are drawn and before decisions are made.
> Among other things, three times a conclusion was drawn without talking with
> me, with as excuse "we know how he thinks", sorry, but that is a heavy
> insult to me.
>
> Behind the scenes I have been trying to address the issues with dialogues,
> as well as various other people, who have indicated their concerns, offered
> help, offered (actual) solutions, tried to intermediate, etc etc, zero
> results, zero self reflection.
>
> There is a limit of what a human being can bear, my limit is here.
>
>
>
> In the world, people have been discriminated for their religion, political
> beliefs, the colour of their skin, because of their gender, because of a
> different gender identity, how they look like, ..., or just 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some goodbye to all

2019-06-20 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Caroline,
For me this is not your story. Your insistence of making it so has quite
the opposite effect. I have known Romaine, the tireless efforts for us all
he has given us over the years, I grieve for our collective loss. I do not
know you and you are intruding on what is a feeling shared by many. It may
help you when you grow some sensitivity and respect this experience, the
feelings of others. Maybe it is too difficult for you, I do not know as I
do not know you at all.

What I wonder is to what extend do you know Romaine, to what extend are you
stuck in your pov.
Thanks,
 GerardM

On Thu, 20 Jun 2019 at 19:00, Caroline Becker 
wrote:

> This is such a lost. Not only did you waisted an opportunity to learn and
> grow from your mistakes the first time, you reiterate here, showing no
> willingness to grow and learn.
>
> But why would you take the difficult path, when by just claiming your right
> to "weirdness" (which I guess only apply to you and none to the people you
> hurt), you're rewarding with public support ?
>
> Caroline
>
>
> Le jeu. 20 juin 2019 à 18:55, Dennis During  a écrit :
>
> > I am ashamed that the movement has a climate that allows this unfortunate
> > outcome
> >
> > On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 7:15 AM Romaine Wiki 
> > wrote:
> >
> > >  Dear community,
> > >
> > >
> > > About a month ago I have decided that I will indefinitely no longer
> > attend
> > > any WMF funded events as result of bullying, attempts to silence me,
> > > intimidation and treats against me. This has resulted in that I feel
> > > extremely unsafe as the result of the behaviour of only a few
> > individuals.
> > >
> > >
> > --
> > Dennis C. During
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
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[Wikimedia-l] Spots available in next week's monthly activities meeting

2019-06-20 Thread Gregory Varnum
Greetings,

We have some spots still available for presentations at next week's
Wikimedia monthly activities meeting on 27 June 2019 starting at 18:00 UTC.

If you have anything you are working on which you would like to share with
the wider movement, here is your chance! :)

Signup on Meta-Wiki (
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_monthly_activities_meetings/Sign_up)
or ping us via email (activitiesmeet...@wikimedia.org) if you are
interested.

Thank you!
-greg

-- 

Gregory Varnum (pronouns - he/his/him)

Communications Strategist

Wikimedia Foundation 
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[Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Language showcase June 2019

2019-06-20 Thread Amir E. Aharoni
Hello,

This is an announcement about a new installment of the Language Showcase, a
series of presentations about various aspects of language diversity and its
connection to Wikimedia Projects.

This new installment will deal with Machine Translation and how we are
seeing their use in Wikimedia projects.

This session is going to be broadcast over YouTube, and a recording will be
kept for later viewing. You can also participate in the conversation on IRC
or with us on the hangout. However, please do let us know earlier so that
we can send you a hangout invite.

Please read below for the event details, including local time, YouTube
links and do let us know if you have any questions.

Thank you!

Amir

== Details ==

# Event: Language Showcase #2

# When: June 26, 2019 (Wednesday) at 13:00 UTC (check local time
https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20190626T1300)

# Where:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uG3eU1tohok
IRC - #wikimedia-office (on Freenode)

# Agenda:

The usage of Machine Translation in Wikimedia projects.

--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some goodbye to all

2019-06-20 Thread Ilario Valdelli
Hi Romaine
you know that you are always welcome.

And if you have to categorize yourself to be accepted, we should say that
the community is becoming insane.

We accept Romaine because is Romane non because he is man/woman,
black/white, LGBT/Etero, etc.

Kind regards

On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 1:15 PM Romaine Wiki  wrote:

>  Dear community,
>
> First I need to mention that the message I sent a few days ago had too
> limited information regarding the context of the message. The e-mail was
> written by me personally alone, written from my perspective. The email
> contained an overview what has happened, written based on e-mails and
> eyewitnesses. So if anyone would say it is not true, please add {{Citation
> needed}} to that person's saying.
>
>
>
>
> About a month ago I have decided that I will indefinitely no longer attend
> any WMF funded events as result of bullying, attempts to silence me,
> intimidation and treats against me. This has resulted in that I feel
> extremely unsafe as the result of the behaviour of only a few individuals.
>
> This has lead that since the start of this occurring about 18 months ago I
> have been over a dozen of times very ill, while I was in the 10 years
> before only twice that ill.
>
> I see no indication that the issues addressed are taken seriously, so I see
> no safe space for me to be present. In my childhood I was bullied for being
> different, I am not interested in a second episode now.
>
>
>
>
> From my parents I have learned to lend others always a helping hand where I
> can. As such I was happy to be able to help the organisers of various
> conferences and I always tried to make it a comfortable place for everyone.
>
> To my regret I have been informed that some people have indicated that I
> have given them an unpleasant feeling. You must know that I never ever had
> such intention (also still largely unsure what of me has given you this
> emotion) and I am feeling bad that I gave you such feeling. My apologies!
>
>
> Some people have indicated with last year's conference that they had an
> impression of me while I never ever had intended as such. In the past
> period I have been thinking about it what would make some people think that
> I gave that impression. This includes that some people think that I was
> flirting or something with other people, while I actually had no interest
> in the other.
>
> I suspect it might have something to do that I almost never really
> introduced myself as I always thought that widely diverse people in our
> movement would respect me in my diversity.
>
>
> Perhaps it is good to create some clarity. Traditionally looking, I
> understand people expect me as "man" to fall on women, but I do not fall on
> the women present at the conferences, as well as that I have a different
> gender identification. In other words: LGBT+   Also I am autistic, having
> aspergers, having sensory overloads, being claustrophobic, having a hearing
> problem, avoiding touching, having an eidetic memory (photographic memory),
> etc, being divergent in comparison to many others, I am feeling a bit
> socially clumsy.
>
> The first 8 years in the wiki world I was not feeling safe to meet anyone.
> In 2011 I visited the first wiki event when Wikipedia celebrated its 10th
> birthday. I felt more and more safe and joined more events. You might have
> seen me with my large enthusiasm as I feel by providing knowledge to the
> world, we make the world a better place for anyone. Now 8 years later I am
> leaving as I am not feeling safe again.
>
> But please, do not get me wrong. I live in a country that would probably
> win the world championships in complaining. I believe everyone has the
> right to complain, as that I see as part of the basic rights of freedom of
> expression and thought. It matters however what happens next with
> complaints. Every complaint should be judged by independent individuals,
> with impartiality, without also any *appearance* of partiality, with taking
> into account *all* information, with care and respect to all individuals
> involved. (etc) Also anyone has the right to defend themselves against
> allegations *before* conclusions are drawn and before decisions are made.
> Among other things, three times a conclusion was drawn without talking with
> me, with as excuse "we know how he thinks", sorry, but that is a heavy
> insult to me.
>
> Behind the scenes I have been trying to address the issues with dialogues,
> as well as various other people, who have indicated their concerns, offered
> help, offered (actual) solutions, tried to intermediate, etc etc, zero
> results, zero self reflection.
>
> There is a limit of what a human being can bear, my limit is here.
>
>
>
> In the world, people have been discriminated for their religion, political
> beliefs, the colour of their skin, because of their gender, because of a
> different gender identity, how they look like, ..., or just because they
> are considered to be "weird" when 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some goodbye to all

2019-06-20 Thread Caroline Becker
This is such a lost. Not only did you waisted an opportunity to learn and
grow from your mistakes the first time, you reiterate here, showing no
willingness to grow and learn.

But why would you take the difficult path, when by just claiming your right
to "weirdness" (which I guess only apply to you and none to the people you
hurt), you're rewarding with public support ?

Caroline


Le jeu. 20 juin 2019 à 18:55, Dennis During  a écrit :

> I am ashamed that the movement has a climate that allows this unfortunate
> outcome
>
> On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 7:15 AM Romaine Wiki 
> wrote:
>
> >  Dear community,
> >
> >
> > About a month ago I have decided that I will indefinitely no longer
> attend
> > any WMF funded events as result of bullying, attempts to silence me,
> > intimidation and treats against me. This has resulted in that I feel
> > extremely unsafe as the result of the behaviour of only a few
> individuals.
> >
> >
> --
> Dennis C. During
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some goodbye to all

2019-06-20 Thread Dennis During
I am ashamed that the movement has a climate that allows this unfortunate
outcome

On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 7:15 AM Romaine Wiki  wrote:

>  Dear community,
>
>
> About a month ago I have decided that I will indefinitely no longer attend
> any WMF funded events as result of bullying, attempts to silence me,
> intimidation and treats against me. This has resulted in that I feel
> extremely unsafe as the result of the behaviour of only a few individuals.
>
>
-- 
Dennis C. During
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some goodbye to all

2019-06-20 Thread Rehman Abubakr
Hi Romaine,

I completely agree with Camelia, and would like to echo the same.

Most of us are weird in some way, so don't feel bad. Even after meeting 
hundreds of people from all over the world, I still have a very hard time 
socialising "normally". I've been this way pretty much as far as I can 
remember. But the diverseness (a.k.a. weirdness) of Wikimedians allowed me to 
simply be who I am, and be happy. I know a number of people also consider me 
odd, but as of lately I'm now more than ok with that.

That being said, most of the time it is so easy for people to hurt others by 
reacting without thinking, even for the briefest of moments. And unfortunate 
things can happen in the best places we know. My little advise would be to let 
it go and move on. Don't let it get the best of you. Hopefully those who put 
you down, intentionally or unintentionally, will step-up to make things right 
someday.

I've met you a number of times in various parts of the world, although briefly 
on all occasions (I'm bad at maintaining long conversations - a party pooper of 
sorts!), and I know from your words, expressions, and body language, that your 
are an amazing person with a very warm heart.

Cheer up, and don't cling on darker thoughts. It troubles no one other than the 
person clinging to it.

Goodnight from here.



Yours truly,


Rehman Abubakr (Roy)

OTRS agent, Admin (English Wikipedia, Commons), Contributor (Wikidata, Meta)
User:Rehman | 
Talkpage | 
rehman.wikime...@live.com | 
UG-LK


From: Wikimedia-l  on behalf of 
camelia boban 
Sent: 20 June 2019 19:57
To: Wikimedia Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some goodbye to all

One way or another, as nerds, we are all weird. I felt in love with this
movement when I realized that anyone inside would not have felt a stranger.
I live in Rome, where there is the habit of hugging and / or kissing each
other on one cheek and another when we meet. In the Arab world I saw that
the kisses they give are 3. At this point, I will think twice before doing
it.  In the MeeToo era we must be careful not to exaggerate, striving to
understand the difference between harassment and what can sometimes be
rudeness only or, in this case, sensitivity and affection expressed in
another way congenital to us.

Let us remember that behind what we perceive as "different" there is a
human being, with his story and his desire for interment and to be part of
something greater, a community.

I will miss you Romaine, I will miss your tenderness and I am so sorry
about how things went and how bad you are.

I don't know about you wikipedians, but I feel terribly sad. And defeat,
because I don't understand what's happening to us.


*Camelia*














Il giorno gio 20 giu 2019 alle ore 13:15 Romaine Wiki <
romaine.w...@gmail.com> ha scritto:

>  Dear community,
>
> First I need to mention that the message I sent a few days ago had too
> limited information regarding the context of the message. The e-mail was
> written by me personally alone, written from my perspective. The email
> contained an overview what has happened, written based on e-mails and
> eyewitnesses. So if anyone would say it is not true, please add {{Citation
> needed}} to that person's saying.
>
>
>
>
> About a month ago I have decided that I will indefinitely no longer attend
> any WMF funded events as result of bullying, attempts to silence me,
> intimidation and treats against me. This has resulted in that I feel
> extremely unsafe as the result of the behaviour of only a few individuals.
>
> This has lead that since the start of this occurring about 18 months ago I
> have been over a dozen of times very ill, while I was in the 10 years
> before only twice that ill.
>
> I see no indication that the issues addressed are taken seriously, so I see
> no safe space for me to be present. In my childhood I was bullied for being
> different, I am not interested in a second episode now.
>
>
>
>
> From my parents I have learned to lend others always a helping hand where I
> can. As such I was happy to be able to help the organisers of various
> conferences and I always tried to make it a comfortable place for everyone.
>
> To my regret I have been informed that some people have indicated that I
> have given them an unpleasant feeling. You must know that I never ever had
> such intention (also still largely unsure what of me has given you this
> emotion) and I am feeling bad that I gave you such feeling. My apologies!
>
>
> Some people have indicated with last year's conference that they had an
> impression of me while I never ever had intended as such. In the past
> period I have been thinking about it what would make some people think that
> I 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Resignation from Shared Knowledge's Executive Board

2019-06-20 Thread Santiago Navarro
Good luck in your next challenges Kiril, and thank you for all these 
years.


El 2019-05-30 02:05, Kiril Simeonovski escribió:

Dear all,

I would like to inform you about my resignation from the Executive 
Board of

Shared Knowledge, effective from 1 July 2019.

After spending almost ten years on the boards of Wikimedia Macedonia 
and
Shared Knowledge with the last five years as president of Shared 
Knowledge,

this was a difficult decision for me but, in order to allow the
organisation adapt to the ever-changing environment in the movement, it
seems like the right time to make this step has come. The reasons for 
my
decision to step down are mostly personal, including lack of time, lack 
of

motivation, and hunger for new challenges.

To give a better insight of my board experience, I can effectively 
divide
it to two different but related periods: the first five years spent as 
a

board member of Wikimedia Macedonia as a passive chapter were marked by
extensive learning about the movement and the programmes of the other
chapters with a limited amount of educational activities; the second 
five
years spent as president of Shared Knowledge as an active user group 
were

marked by executing the learning into practice with several programmes
abundant with projects and events.

The exact meaning of my resignation is, however, not retirement from 
the

movement but rather a substantial reduction of the time spent on some
activities. My future plans are to remain active in the movement in 
other

capacities.

I would like to thank you all for the collaboration so far and express 
my
hopefulness to extend it in my non-presidential role from now on. I 
will
not leave this mailing list and will continue following the news from 
the

movement.

Best regards,
Kiril Simeonovski
Chair of the Executive Board of Shared Knowledge
___
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New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
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--
Santiago Navarro Sanz
Presidente
Wikimedia España
www.wikimedia.es

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some goodbye to all

2019-06-20 Thread Santiago Navarro
It is very sad to read this e-mail. I had the luck of meeting you 
several times. I wish you the best in your life.


Thank you for all these time working for free knowledge.

El 2019-06-20 17:59, Gerard Meijssen escribió:

Hoi Romaine,
I am sad. It has been a pleasure to work with you. Your energy has been
inspiring.

I hope that we will find each other whenever, wherever.
Thank you Romaine :)
Gerard

On Thu, 20 Jun 2019 at 13:15, Romaine Wiki  
wrote:



 Dear community,

First I need to mention that the message I sent a few days ago had too
limited information regarding the context of the message. The e-mail 
was

written by me personally alone, written from my perspective. The email
contained an overview what has happened, written based on e-mails and
eyewitnesses. So if anyone would say it is not true, please add 
{{Citation

needed}} to that person's saying.




About a month ago I have decided that I will indefinitely no longer 
attend

any WMF funded events as result of bullying, attempts to silence me,
intimidation and treats against me. This has resulted in that I feel
extremely unsafe as the result of the behaviour of only a few 
individuals.


This has lead that since the start of this occurring about 18 months 
ago I

have been over a dozen of times very ill, while I was in the 10 years
before only twice that ill.

I see no indication that the issues addressed are taken seriously, so 
I see
no safe space for me to be present. In my childhood I was bullied for 
being

different, I am not interested in a second episode now.




From my parents I have learned to lend others always a helping hand 
where I

can. As such I was happy to be able to help the organisers of various
conferences and I always tried to make it a comfortable place for 
everyone.


To my regret I have been informed that some people have indicated that 
I
have given them an unpleasant feeling. You must know that I never ever 
had
such intention (also still largely unsure what of me has given you 
this
emotion) and I am feeling bad that I gave you such feeling. My 
apologies!



Some people have indicated with last year's conference that they had 
an

impression of me while I never ever had intended as such. In the past
period I have been thinking about it what would make some people think 
that
I gave that impression. This includes that some people think that I 
was
flirting or something with other people, while I actually had no 
interest

in the other.

I suspect it might have something to do that I almost never really
introduced myself as I always thought that widely diverse people in 
our

movement would respect me in my diversity.


Perhaps it is good to create some clarity. Traditionally looking, I
understand people expect me as "man" to fall on women, but I do not 
fall on
the women present at the conferences, as well as that I have a 
different
gender identification. In other words: LGBT+   Also I am autistic, 
having
aspergers, having sensory overloads, being claustrophobic, having a 
hearing
problem, avoiding touching, having an eidetic memory (photographic 
memory),

etc, being divergent in comparison to many others, I am feeling a bit
socially clumsy.

The first 8 years in the wiki world I was not feeling safe to meet 
anyone.
In 2011 I visited the first wiki event when Wikipedia celebrated its 
10th
birthday. I felt more and more safe and joined more events. You might 
have
seen me with my large enthusiasm as I feel by providing knowledge to 
the
world, we make the world a better place for anyone. Now 8 years later 
I am

leaving as I am not feeling safe again.

But please, do not get me wrong. I live in a country that would 
probably

win the world championships in complaining. I believe everyone has the
right to complain, as that I see as part of the basic rights of 
freedom of

expression and thought. It matters however what happens next with
complaints. Every complaint should be judged by independent 
individuals,
with impartiality, without also any *appearance* of partiality, with 
taking
into account *all* information, with care and respect to all 
individuals

involved. (etc) Also anyone has the right to defend themselves against
allegations *before* conclusions are drawn and before decisions are 
made.
Among other things, three times a conclusion was drawn without talking 
with

me, with as excuse "we know how he thinks", sorry, but that is a heavy
insult to me.

Behind the scenes I have been trying to address the issues with 
dialogues,
as well as various other people, who have indicated their concerns, 
offered

help, offered (actual) solutions, tried to intermediate, etc etc, zero
results, zero self reflection.

There is a limit of what a human being can bear, my limit is here.



In the world, people have been discriminated for their religion, 
political
beliefs, the colour of their skin, because of their gender, because of 
a
different gender identity, how they look like, ..., or just because 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some goodbye to all

2019-06-20 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hoi Romaine,
I am sad. It has been a pleasure to work with you. Your energy has been
inspiring.

I hope that we will find each other whenever, wherever.
Thank you Romaine :)
Gerard

On Thu, 20 Jun 2019 at 13:15, Romaine Wiki  wrote:

>  Dear community,
>
> First I need to mention that the message I sent a few days ago had too
> limited information regarding the context of the message. The e-mail was
> written by me personally alone, written from my perspective. The email
> contained an overview what has happened, written based on e-mails and
> eyewitnesses. So if anyone would say it is not true, please add {{Citation
> needed}} to that person's saying.
>
>
>
>
> About a month ago I have decided that I will indefinitely no longer attend
> any WMF funded events as result of bullying, attempts to silence me,
> intimidation and treats against me. This has resulted in that I feel
> extremely unsafe as the result of the behaviour of only a few individuals.
>
> This has lead that since the start of this occurring about 18 months ago I
> have been over a dozen of times very ill, while I was in the 10 years
> before only twice that ill.
>
> I see no indication that the issues addressed are taken seriously, so I see
> no safe space for me to be present. In my childhood I was bullied for being
> different, I am not interested in a second episode now.
>
>
>
>
> From my parents I have learned to lend others always a helping hand where I
> can. As such I was happy to be able to help the organisers of various
> conferences and I always tried to make it a comfortable place for everyone.
>
> To my regret I have been informed that some people have indicated that I
> have given them an unpleasant feeling. You must know that I never ever had
> such intention (also still largely unsure what of me has given you this
> emotion) and I am feeling bad that I gave you such feeling. My apologies!
>
>
> Some people have indicated with last year's conference that they had an
> impression of me while I never ever had intended as such. In the past
> period I have been thinking about it what would make some people think that
> I gave that impression. This includes that some people think that I was
> flirting or something with other people, while I actually had no interest
> in the other.
>
> I suspect it might have something to do that I almost never really
> introduced myself as I always thought that widely diverse people in our
> movement would respect me in my diversity.
>
>
> Perhaps it is good to create some clarity. Traditionally looking, I
> understand people expect me as "man" to fall on women, but I do not fall on
> the women present at the conferences, as well as that I have a different
> gender identification. In other words: LGBT+   Also I am autistic, having
> aspergers, having sensory overloads, being claustrophobic, having a hearing
> problem, avoiding touching, having an eidetic memory (photographic memory),
> etc, being divergent in comparison to many others, I am feeling a bit
> socially clumsy.
>
> The first 8 years in the wiki world I was not feeling safe to meet anyone.
> In 2011 I visited the first wiki event when Wikipedia celebrated its 10th
> birthday. I felt more and more safe and joined more events. You might have
> seen me with my large enthusiasm as I feel by providing knowledge to the
> world, we make the world a better place for anyone. Now 8 years later I am
> leaving as I am not feeling safe again.
>
> But please, do not get me wrong. I live in a country that would probably
> win the world championships in complaining. I believe everyone has the
> right to complain, as that I see as part of the basic rights of freedom of
> expression and thought. It matters however what happens next with
> complaints. Every complaint should be judged by independent individuals,
> with impartiality, without also any *appearance* of partiality, with taking
> into account *all* information, with care and respect to all individuals
> involved. (etc) Also anyone has the right to defend themselves against
> allegations *before* conclusions are drawn and before decisions are made.
> Among other things, three times a conclusion was drawn without talking with
> me, with as excuse "we know how he thinks", sorry, but that is a heavy
> insult to me.
>
> Behind the scenes I have been trying to address the issues with dialogues,
> as well as various other people, who have indicated their concerns, offered
> help, offered (actual) solutions, tried to intermediate, etc etc, zero
> results, zero self reflection.
>
> There is a limit of what a human being can bear, my limit is here.
>
>
>
> In the world, people have been discriminated for their religion, political
> beliefs, the colour of their skin, because of their gender, because of a
> different gender identity, how they look like, ..., or just because they
> are considered to be "weird" when people do not understand the other. I
> would prefer that we do not copy that and 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some goodbye to all

2019-06-20 Thread camelia boban
One way or another, as nerds, we are all weird. I felt in love with this
movement when I realized that anyone inside would not have felt a stranger.
I live in Rome, where there is the habit of hugging and / or kissing each
other on one cheek and another when we meet. In the Arab world I saw that
the kisses they give are 3. At this point, I will think twice before doing
it.  In the MeeToo era we must be careful not to exaggerate, striving to
understand the difference between harassment and what can sometimes be
rudeness only or, in this case, sensitivity and affection expressed in
another way congenital to us.

Let us remember that behind what we perceive as "different" there is a
human being, with his story and his desire for interment and to be part of
something greater, a community.

I will miss you Romaine, I will miss your tenderness and I am so sorry
about how things went and how bad you are.

I don't know about you wikipedians, but I feel terribly sad. And defeat,
because I don't understand what's happening to us.


*Camelia*














Il giorno gio 20 giu 2019 alle ore 13:15 Romaine Wiki <
romaine.w...@gmail.com> ha scritto:

>  Dear community,
>
> First I need to mention that the message I sent a few days ago had too
> limited information regarding the context of the message. The e-mail was
> written by me personally alone, written from my perspective. The email
> contained an overview what has happened, written based on e-mails and
> eyewitnesses. So if anyone would say it is not true, please add {{Citation
> needed}} to that person's saying.
>
>
>
>
> About a month ago I have decided that I will indefinitely no longer attend
> any WMF funded events as result of bullying, attempts to silence me,
> intimidation and treats against me. This has resulted in that I feel
> extremely unsafe as the result of the behaviour of only a few individuals.
>
> This has lead that since the start of this occurring about 18 months ago I
> have been over a dozen of times very ill, while I was in the 10 years
> before only twice that ill.
>
> I see no indication that the issues addressed are taken seriously, so I see
> no safe space for me to be present. In my childhood I was bullied for being
> different, I am not interested in a second episode now.
>
>
>
>
> From my parents I have learned to lend others always a helping hand where I
> can. As such I was happy to be able to help the organisers of various
> conferences and I always tried to make it a comfortable place for everyone.
>
> To my regret I have been informed that some people have indicated that I
> have given them an unpleasant feeling. You must know that I never ever had
> such intention (also still largely unsure what of me has given you this
> emotion) and I am feeling bad that I gave you such feeling. My apologies!
>
>
> Some people have indicated with last year's conference that they had an
> impression of me while I never ever had intended as such. In the past
> period I have been thinking about it what would make some people think that
> I gave that impression. This includes that some people think that I was
> flirting or something with other people, while I actually had no interest
> in the other.
>
> I suspect it might have something to do that I almost never really
> introduced myself as I always thought that widely diverse people in our
> movement would respect me in my diversity.
>
>
> Perhaps it is good to create some clarity. Traditionally looking, I
> understand people expect me as "man" to fall on women, but I do not fall on
> the women present at the conferences, as well as that I have a different
> gender identification. In other words: LGBT+   Also I am autistic, having
> aspergers, having sensory overloads, being claustrophobic, having a hearing
> problem, avoiding touching, having an eidetic memory (photographic memory),
> etc, being divergent in comparison to many others, I am feeling a bit
> socially clumsy.
>
> The first 8 years in the wiki world I was not feeling safe to meet anyone.
> In 2011 I visited the first wiki event when Wikipedia celebrated its 10th
> birthday. I felt more and more safe and joined more events. You might have
> seen me with my large enthusiasm as I feel by providing knowledge to the
> world, we make the world a better place for anyone. Now 8 years later I am
> leaving as I am not feeling safe again.
>
> But please, do not get me wrong. I live in a country that would probably
> win the world championships in complaining. I believe everyone has the
> right to complain, as that I see as part of the basic rights of freedom of
> expression and thought. It matters however what happens next with
> complaints. Every complaint should be judged by independent individuals,
> with impartiality, without also any *appearance* of partiality, with taking
> into account *all* information, with care and respect to all individuals
> involved. (etc) Also anyone has the right to defend themselves against
> allegations 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Foundation management of volunteers

2019-06-20 Thread Martijn Hoekstra
On Thu, Jun 20, 2019, 13:16 Mister Thrapostibongles <
thrapostibong...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Martin
>
> You really think that it is ridiculous that encyclopaedias in general and
> Wikipedia in particular should be judged, among other criteria, on their
> reliability?  If so, I disagree.
>


No, I'm saying that it's ridiculous to judge wikipedia on its policy that
citing itself is disallowed.

You keep rephrasing what I say in order to disagree with something I dont
say. Stop doing that.




> However, if you really believe that an encyclopadia does not ned to be
> reliable, then it seems that on this specific point we may need to agree to
> disagree.  How about the other points I adduce, such as the millions of
> unreferenced or inadeqautely referenced articles discovered at
>
> https://wikimediafoundation.org/2019/04/03/can-machine-learning-uncover-wikipedias-missing-citation-needed-tags/
> --
> is that evidence of success?  The thousands of articles in
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Unreferenced_BLPs -- is that
> evidence of success?
>
> Thrapostibongles
>
> On Tue, Jun 18, 2019 at 1:44 PM Martijn Hoekstra <
> martijnhoeks...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > No.
> >
> > What I'm saying is this: setting meeting the reliable sources policy of
> > wikipedia as a condition for success, or not meeting that policy as
> > evidence of failure is ridiculous.
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 14:29 Mister Thrapostibongles <
> > thrapostibong...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Martin, Dennis
> > >
> > > The tenor of your arguments appears to be that Wikipedia is in fact
> > > reliable, because it uses reliable sources, but that it pretends not to
> > be
> > > because it's too hard to prevent people writing article based on other
> > > articles.  This is not in accord with the facts.  As I pointed out, and
> > as
> > > Foundation research has shown, millions -- literally millions, and
> when I
> > > say "literally" I literally mean "literally" -- of articles, about one
> in
> > > five, are not founded on reliable sources, and some thousands of those,
> > > being biographies of living people, should have been instantly deleted.
> > So
> > > we cannot rely on any of those millions of articles, by your own
> > > reasoning.  The reason why Wikipedia deems itself unreliable is that it
> > is
> > > an open wiki, and all such sources are forbidden, because anyone can
> > write
> > > anything on them: "Content from websites whose content is largely
> > > user-generated
> > > is also generally unacceptable."  Wikipedia is cited in the policy as
> > > merely another example of such unreliable sources.
> > >
> > > The way forward, however unpalatable this may be to people who would
> like
> > > to believe that this is somehow silly or sophistry, is to look the
> facts
> > in
> > > the face and accept that some form of editorial policy, content
> workflow
> > > management and supervision of the volunteer effort is necessary to make
> > > Wikipedia what aspires to be, but is not currently, namely an
> > > encyclopaedia.
> > >
> > > Thrapostibongles
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jun 17, 2019 at 11:06 PM Martijn Hoekstra <
> > > martijnhoeks...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Wikipedia itself can never be more reliable than the sources it
> cites.
> > If
> > > > it's allowed to cite itself, then there is no "bottom" to lean on,
> and
> > > its
> > > > quality would quickly drop.
> > > >
> > > > That you conclude from that that wikipedia is unreliable and
> therefore
> > > > failed is IMO such a silly proposition, that I dont know whether you
> > > > seriously think this, in which case we should probably take this off
> > > list,
> > > > or that you're engaging in sophistry and using arguments you don't
> > think
> > > > are reasonable in the first place.
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 19:56 Mister Thrapostibongles <
> > > > thrapostibong...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Dennis,
> > > > >
> > > > > I started this thread to discuss both conduct and content policies
> on
> > > > > Wikipedia, and indeed how the two interact.  Wikipedia is a project
> > to
> > > > > build an encyclopaedia.  By its own criteria, encyclopaedias are
> > > reliable
> > > > > sources and Wikipedia is not a reliable source; hence by its own
> > > > criteria,
> > > > > Wikipedia is not an encyclopaedia.  That is, it is currently in a
> > state
> > > > of
> > > > > failure with respect to its own mission.
> > > > >
> > > > > One of the reasons for that state of failure is indeed the failure
> to
> > > > > provide a collegial working atmosphere.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thrapostibongles
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, Jun 17, 2019 at 2:19 PM Dennis During 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > "One (and not the most important) pieces of evidence for
> Wikipedia
> > > > being
> > > > > in
> > > > > > a failed state is precisely that
> > > > > > it does not, by the community's own admission, constitute a
> > reliable
> > > > > source
> > > > > > "
> 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Foundation management of volunteers

2019-06-20 Thread Mister Thrapostibongles
Martin

You really think that it is ridiculous that encyclopaedias in general and
Wikipedia in particular should be judged, among other criteria, on their
reliability?  If so, I disagree.

However, if you really believe that an encyclopadia does not ned to be
reliable, then it seems that on this specific point we may need to agree to
disagree.  How about the other points I adduce, such as the millions of
unreferenced or inadeqautely referenced articles discovered at
https://wikimediafoundation.org/2019/04/03/can-machine-learning-uncover-wikipedias-missing-citation-needed-tags/
--
is that evidence of success?  The thousands of articles in
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Unreferenced_BLPs -- is that
evidence of success?

Thrapostibongles

On Tue, Jun 18, 2019 at 1:44 PM Martijn Hoekstra 
wrote:

> No.
>
> What I'm saying is this: setting meeting the reliable sources policy of
> wikipedia as a condition for success, or not meeting that policy as
> evidence of failure is ridiculous.
>
> On Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 14:29 Mister Thrapostibongles <
> thrapostibong...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Martin, Dennis
> >
> > The tenor of your arguments appears to be that Wikipedia is in fact
> > reliable, because it uses reliable sources, but that it pretends not to
> be
> > because it's too hard to prevent people writing article based on other
> > articles.  This is not in accord with the facts.  As I pointed out, and
> as
> > Foundation research has shown, millions -- literally millions, and when I
> > say "literally" I literally mean "literally" -- of articles, about one in
> > five, are not founded on reliable sources, and some thousands of those,
> > being biographies of living people, should have been instantly deleted.
> So
> > we cannot rely on any of those millions of articles, by your own
> > reasoning.  The reason why Wikipedia deems itself unreliable is that it
> is
> > an open wiki, and all such sources are forbidden, because anyone can
> write
> > anything on them: "Content from websites whose content is largely
> > user-generated
> > is also generally unacceptable."  Wikipedia is cited in the policy as
> > merely another example of such unreliable sources.
> >
> > The way forward, however unpalatable this may be to people who would like
> > to believe that this is somehow silly or sophistry, is to look the facts
> in
> > the face and accept that some form of editorial policy, content workflow
> > management and supervision of the volunteer effort is necessary to make
> > Wikipedia what aspires to be, but is not currently, namely an
> > encyclopaedia.
> >
> > Thrapostibongles
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 17, 2019 at 11:06 PM Martijn Hoekstra <
> > martijnhoeks...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Wikipedia itself can never be more reliable than the sources it cites.
> If
> > > it's allowed to cite itself, then there is no "bottom" to lean on, and
> > its
> > > quality would quickly drop.
> > >
> > > That you conclude from that that wikipedia is unreliable and therefore
> > > failed is IMO such a silly proposition, that I dont know whether you
> > > seriously think this, in which case we should probably take this off
> > list,
> > > or that you're engaging in sophistry and using arguments you don't
> think
> > > are reasonable in the first place.
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jun 17, 2019, 19:56 Mister Thrapostibongles <
> > > thrapostibong...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Dennis,
> > > >
> > > > I started this thread to discuss both conduct and content policies on
> > > > Wikipedia, and indeed how the two interact.  Wikipedia is a project
> to
> > > > build an encyclopaedia.  By its own criteria, encyclopaedias are
> > reliable
> > > > sources and Wikipedia is not a reliable source; hence by its own
> > > criteria,
> > > > Wikipedia is not an encyclopaedia.  That is, it is currently in a
> state
> > > of
> > > > failure with respect to its own mission.
> > > >
> > > > One of the reasons for that state of failure is indeed the failure to
> > > > provide a collegial working atmosphere.
> > > >
> > > > Thrapostibongles
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Jun 17, 2019 at 2:19 PM Dennis During 
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > "One (and not the most important) pieces of evidence for Wikipedia
> > > being
> > > > in
> > > > > a failed state is precisely that
> > > > > it does not, by the community's own admission, constitute a
> reliable
> > > > source
> > > > > "
> > > > >
> > > > > You have made this argument more than once. That might be a piece
> of
> > > > > evidence seems both wrong and not relevant to the sense in which
> > people
> > > > > here as saying WP has failed, which is as a welcoming, "safe"
> > > environment
> > > > > for contributors and would-be contributors.
> > > > >
> > > > > It is good policy to make sure that contributors reach out to other
> > > > > sources, even when one believes that Wikipedia is as reliable as
> the
> > > > > average tertiary source we allow as a reference. It prevents us
> from
> > > > 

[Wikimedia-l] Some goodbye to all

2019-06-20 Thread Romaine Wiki
 Dear community,

First I need to mention that the message I sent a few days ago had too
limited information regarding the context of the message. The e-mail was
written by me personally alone, written from my perspective. The email
contained an overview what has happened, written based on e-mails and
eyewitnesses. So if anyone would say it is not true, please add {{Citation
needed}} to that person's saying.




About a month ago I have decided that I will indefinitely no longer attend
any WMF funded events as result of bullying, attempts to silence me,
intimidation and treats against me. This has resulted in that I feel
extremely unsafe as the result of the behaviour of only a few individuals.

This has lead that since the start of this occurring about 18 months ago I
have been over a dozen of times very ill, while I was in the 10 years
before only twice that ill.

I see no indication that the issues addressed are taken seriously, so I see
no safe space for me to be present. In my childhood I was bullied for being
different, I am not interested in a second episode now.




From my parents I have learned to lend others always a helping hand where I
can. As such I was happy to be able to help the organisers of various
conferences and I always tried to make it a comfortable place for everyone.

To my regret I have been informed that some people have indicated that I
have given them an unpleasant feeling. You must know that I never ever had
such intention (also still largely unsure what of me has given you this
emotion) and I am feeling bad that I gave you such feeling. My apologies!


Some people have indicated with last year's conference that they had an
impression of me while I never ever had intended as such. In the past
period I have been thinking about it what would make some people think that
I gave that impression. This includes that some people think that I was
flirting or something with other people, while I actually had no interest
in the other.

I suspect it might have something to do that I almost never really
introduced myself as I always thought that widely diverse people in our
movement would respect me in my diversity.


Perhaps it is good to create some clarity. Traditionally looking, I
understand people expect me as "man" to fall on women, but I do not fall on
the women present at the conferences, as well as that I have a different
gender identification. In other words: LGBT+   Also I am autistic, having
aspergers, having sensory overloads, being claustrophobic, having a hearing
problem, avoiding touching, having an eidetic memory (photographic memory),
etc, being divergent in comparison to many others, I am feeling a bit
socially clumsy.

The first 8 years in the wiki world I was not feeling safe to meet anyone.
In 2011 I visited the first wiki event when Wikipedia celebrated its 10th
birthday. I felt more and more safe and joined more events. You might have
seen me with my large enthusiasm as I feel by providing knowledge to the
world, we make the world a better place for anyone. Now 8 years later I am
leaving as I am not feeling safe again.

But please, do not get me wrong. I live in a country that would probably
win the world championships in complaining. I believe everyone has the
right to complain, as that I see as part of the basic rights of freedom of
expression and thought. It matters however what happens next with
complaints. Every complaint should be judged by independent individuals,
with impartiality, without also any *appearance* of partiality, with taking
into account *all* information, with care and respect to all individuals
involved. (etc) Also anyone has the right to defend themselves against
allegations *before* conclusions are drawn and before decisions are made.
Among other things, three times a conclusion was drawn without talking with
me, with as excuse "we know how he thinks", sorry, but that is a heavy
insult to me.

Behind the scenes I have been trying to address the issues with dialogues,
as well as various other people, who have indicated their concerns, offered
help, offered (actual) solutions, tried to intermediate, etc etc, zero
results, zero self reflection.

There is a limit of what a human being can bear, my limit is here.



In the world, people have been discriminated for their religion, political
beliefs, the colour of their skin, because of their gender, because of a
different gender identity, how they look like, ..., or just because they
are considered to be "weird" when people do not understand the other. I
would prefer that we do not copy that and instead organise a civilised
complaint handling that works independently.



Many of you gave me a welcome feeling, independent from who/how I am. Thank
you!

As I likely will not meet you again, the one thing that rests me to say is:
thank you for collaborating, talking and sharing your thoughts, I wish you
all the best!


Romaine
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikitech-l] New Code of Conduct committee candidates

2019-06-20 Thread Derk-Jan Hartman
Welcome and thank you for serving/having served in such an important role !

DJ

On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 11:39 AM Amir Sarabadani 
wrote:

> Hello everyone,
> The deadline for the public feedback was yesterday. Some objections have
> raised but committee decided not to change the structure of committee and
> its candidates. It means the new committee with the given members starts
> serving as of today until 19 June 2020.
>
> Please join me on thanking Nuria and Rosalie for their service and welcome
> Tonina and MusikAnimal to the main members of the committee.
>
> Best
>
> On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 9:13 PM Amir Sarabadani 
> wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> > The committee has finished selecting new members and the new committee
> > candidates are (In alphabetical order):
> >
> >- Amir Sarabadani
> >- Lucie-Aimée Kaffee
> >- MusikAnimal
> >- Tonina Zhelyazkova
> >- Tony Thomas
> >
> > And auxiliary members will be (In alphabetical order):
> >
> >- Huji
> >- Matanya
> >- Nuria Ruiz
> >- Rosalie Perside
> >- Tpt
> >
> > You can read more about the members in [0]
> >
> > The changes are:
> > * Nuria and Rosalie are moving from main member to auxilary members
> > * MusikAnimal is moving from auxilary member to main
> > * Tonina Zhelyazkova is joining the main members
> >
> > This is not the final structure. According to the CoC [1], the current
> > committee publishes the new members and call for public feedback for *six
> > weeks* and after that, the current committtee might apply changes to the
> > structure based on public feedback.
> >
> > Please let the committee know if you have any concern regarding the
> > members and its structure until *19 June 2019* and after that, the new
> > committee will be in effect and will serve for a year.
> >
> > [0]:
> >
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Code_of_Conduct/Committee/Members/Candidates
> > [1]:
> >
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Code_of_Conduct/Committee#Selection_of_new_members
> >
> > Amir, On behalf of the Code of Conduct committee
> > Best
> >
> >
>
> --
> Amir (he/him)
> ___
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> wikitec...@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] New Code of Conduct committee candidates

2019-06-20 Thread Amir Sarabadani
Hello everyone,
The deadline for the public feedback was yesterday. Some objections have
raised but committee decided not to change the structure of committee and
its candidates. It means the new committee with the given members starts
serving as of today until 19 June 2020.

Please join me on thanking Nuria and Rosalie for their service and welcome
Tonina and MusikAnimal to the main members of the committee.

Best

On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 9:13 PM Amir Sarabadani  wrote:

> Hello,
> The committee has finished selecting new members and the new committee
> candidates are (In alphabetical order):
>
>- Amir Sarabadani
>- Lucie-Aimée Kaffee
>- MusikAnimal
>- Tonina Zhelyazkova
>- Tony Thomas
>
> And auxiliary members will be (In alphabetical order):
>
>- Huji
>- Matanya
>- Nuria Ruiz
>- Rosalie Perside
>- Tpt
>
> You can read more about the members in [0]
>
> The changes are:
> * Nuria and Rosalie are moving from main member to auxilary members
> * MusikAnimal is moving from auxilary member to main
> * Tonina Zhelyazkova is joining the main members
>
> This is not the final structure. According to the CoC [1], the current
> committee publishes the new members and call for public feedback for *six
> weeks* and after that, the current committtee might apply changes to the
> structure based on public feedback.
>
> Please let the committee know if you have any concern regarding the
> members and its structure until *19 June 2019* and after that, the new
> committee will be in effect and will serve for a year.
>
> [0]:
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Code_of_Conduct/Committee/Members/Candidates
> [1]:
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Code_of_Conduct/Committee#Selection_of_new_members
>
> Amir, On behalf of the Code of Conduct committee
> Best
>
>

-- 
Amir (he/him)
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