Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Foundation joins the global climate strike

2019-09-21 Thread Dennis During
I couldn't get onto WP or en.wikt shortly after I had heard about the MW
participation in the strike. I jumped to an apparently wrong conclusion.
Sorry.

I am glad that the availability of free knowledge for all was not disrupted.

On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 3:19 AM Todd Allen  wrote:

> As far as I can tell, only the Foundation wiki is showing the strike
> message. That particular one is pretty much theirs to do as they like with.
>
> If they started doing that to any other wikis without their agreement,
> well, then we'd have a problem. But so long as it's only the WMF wiki
> itself, I don't see the issue.
>
> Todd
>
> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 6:45 PM Dennis During  wrote:
>
> > I am profoundly disappointed that WMF employees don't value the mission.
> > Instead they seem to simply follow fashion and force users and volunteers
> > to follow their fashionable methods of advocacy.  They use their monopoly
> > power to deny free access to the world's knowledge that many thousands of
> > volunteers have diligently assembled. This time it is to show solidarity
> > with environmental advocates. What will it be next time?
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 20, 2019, 15:35 Pine W  wrote:
> >
> > > I have a few comments.
> > >
> > > While I appreciate the sentiment, I wouldn't have put the
> > > wikimediafoundation.org domain "on strike", just as I wouldn't have
> put
> > a
> > > government agency's website "on strike". I think that some discussion
> of
> > > climate change would be fine, but I think that WMF's action here is
> > > somewhat strange.
> > >
> > > I think that asking about the climate impact of staff travel is fine.
> > > However, I would also include questions about travel for Wikimedia
> events
> > > more broadly. I believe that the WMF Board has indicated support for
> > trying
> > > to reduce the Wikiverse's contributions to climate change. As has been
> > > mentioned in this thread, WMF released a report yesterday
> > > <
> > >
> >
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2019-September/093519.html
> > > >
> > > on the subject of sustainability. While I have not read it, I think
> that
> > > measuring and attempting to reduce reduce negative environmental
> impacts
> > > from Wikimedia activities is good, including negative environmental
> > impacts
> > > from travel. However, I also think that there are some benefits to
> morale
> > > and communications from in person meetings, so I would be reluctant to
> > > eliminate travel and conferences entirely.
> > >
> > > I think that it's fine to ask whether WMF senior management is
> practicing
> > > what they preach. However, Fae, I feel that your tone in this thread is
> > > excessively harsh on this point. I think that you could ask very
> similar
> > > questions with a tone that is calmer.
> > >
> > > On the subject of environmental sustainability, my main concern at this
> > > time is the banner on the WMF website which I feel is somewhat weird
> and
> > is
> > > inconsistent with WMF's goal of being "essential infrastructure". Do we
> > > want "essential infrastructure" to go on strike, particularly when that
> > > infrastructure is supposed to be for an organization that provides
> public
> > > service and supports the community in publishing reliable scientific
> > > information? I think not. However, I think that the banner is
> regrettably
> > > consistent with the series of surprising decisions from WMF in the past
> > few
> > > months. That is, to me, the most concerning element in all of this. If
> > WMF
> > > wants to be a public service infrastructure provider then I think that
> it
> > > should act like one.
> > >
> > > Pine
> > > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> > > ___
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > 
> > ___
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> > 
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-- 
Dennis C. During

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Foundation joins the global climate strike

2019-09-21 Thread Todd Allen
As far as I can tell, only the Foundation wiki is showing the strike
message. That particular one is pretty much theirs to do as they like with.

If they started doing that to any other wikis without their agreement,
well, then we'd have a problem. But so long as it's only the WMF wiki
itself, I don't see the issue.

Todd

On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 6:45 PM Dennis During  wrote:

> I am profoundly disappointed that WMF employees don't value the mission.
> Instead they seem to simply follow fashion and force users and volunteers
> to follow their fashionable methods of advocacy.  They use their monopoly
> power to deny free access to the world's knowledge that many thousands of
> volunteers have diligently assembled. This time it is to show solidarity
> with environmental advocates. What will it be next time?
>
> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019, 15:35 Pine W  wrote:
>
> > I have a few comments.
> >
> > While I appreciate the sentiment, I wouldn't have put the
> > wikimediafoundation.org domain "on strike", just as I wouldn't have put
> a
> > government agency's website "on strike". I think that some discussion of
> > climate change would be fine, but I think that WMF's action here is
> > somewhat strange.
> >
> > I think that asking about the climate impact of staff travel is fine.
> > However, I would also include questions about travel for Wikimedia events
> > more broadly. I believe that the WMF Board has indicated support for
> trying
> > to reduce the Wikiverse's contributions to climate change. As has been
> > mentioned in this thread, WMF released a report yesterday
> > <
> >
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2019-September/093519.html
> > >
> > on the subject of sustainability. While I have not read it, I think that
> > measuring and attempting to reduce reduce negative environmental impacts
> > from Wikimedia activities is good, including negative environmental
> impacts
> > from travel. However, I also think that there are some benefits to morale
> > and communications from in person meetings, so I would be reluctant to
> > eliminate travel and conferences entirely.
> >
> > I think that it's fine to ask whether WMF senior management is practicing
> > what they preach. However, Fae, I feel that your tone in this thread is
> > excessively harsh on this point. I think that you could ask very similar
> > questions with a tone that is calmer.
> >
> > On the subject of environmental sustainability, my main concern at this
> > time is the banner on the WMF website which I feel is somewhat weird and
> is
> > inconsistent with WMF's goal of being "essential infrastructure". Do we
> > want "essential infrastructure" to go on strike, particularly when that
> > infrastructure is supposed to be for an organization that provides public
> > service and supports the community in publishing reliable scientific
> > information? I think not. However, I think that the banner is regrettably
> > consistent with the series of surprising decisions from WMF in the past
> few
> > months. That is, to me, the most concerning element in all of this. If
> WMF
> > wants to be a public service infrastructure provider then I think that it
> > should act like one.
> >
> > Pine
> > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Foundation joins the global climate strike

2019-09-21 Thread Jan Ainali
Have thousands of volunteers really been involved assembling
https://wikimediafoundation.org?

/Jan Ainali


On Sat, Sep 21, 2019, 02:45 Dennis During  wrote:

> I am profoundly disappointed that WMF employees don't value the mission.
> Instead they seem to simply follow fashion and force users and volunteers
> to follow their fashionable methods of advocacy.  They use their monopoly
> power to deny free access to the world's knowledge that many thousands of
> volunteers have diligently assembled. This time it is to show solidarity
> with environmental advocates. What will it be next time?
>
> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019, 15:35 Pine W  wrote:
>
> > I have a few comments.
> >
> > While I appreciate the sentiment, I wouldn't have put the
> > wikimediafoundation.org domain "on strike", just as I wouldn't have put
> a
> > government agency's website "on strike". I think that some discussion of
> > climate change would be fine, but I think that WMF's action here is
> > somewhat strange.
> >
> > I think that asking about the climate impact of staff travel is fine.
> > However, I would also include questions about travel for Wikimedia events
> > more broadly. I believe that the WMF Board has indicated support for
> trying
> > to reduce the Wikiverse's contributions to climate change. As has been
> > mentioned in this thread, WMF released a report yesterday
> > <
> >
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2019-September/093519.html
> > >
> > on the subject of sustainability. While I have not read it, I think that
> > measuring and attempting to reduce reduce negative environmental impacts
> > from Wikimedia activities is good, including negative environmental
> impacts
> > from travel. However, I also think that there are some benefits to morale
> > and communications from in person meetings, so I would be reluctant to
> > eliminate travel and conferences entirely.
> >
> > I think that it's fine to ask whether WMF senior management is practicing
> > what they preach. However, Fae, I feel that your tone in this thread is
> > excessively harsh on this point. I think that you could ask very similar
> > questions with a tone that is calmer.
> >
> > On the subject of environmental sustainability, my main concern at this
> > time is the banner on the WMF website which I feel is somewhat weird and
> is
> > inconsistent with WMF's goal of being "essential infrastructure". Do we
> > want "essential infrastructure" to go on strike, particularly when that
> > infrastructure is supposed to be for an organization that provides public
> > service and supports the community in publishing reliable scientific
> > information? I think not. However, I think that the banner is regrettably
> > consistent with the series of surprising decisions from WMF in the past
> few
> > months. That is, to me, the most concerning element in all of this. If
> WMF
> > wants to be a public service infrastructure provider then I think that it
> > should act like one.
> >
> > Pine
> > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
> ___
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> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
___
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