[Wikimedia-l] Re: Small joy of the day: Txikipedia
Yes, Vikidia editors are allowed (not required) to tell their age on their user page. In the long run (or not so long), other users would roughly guess it anyway. We get to know each other online and I guess it helps the communication to know the age group to which belong the people you're talking with. How could we say we velcome young editors and require that they conceal that they are young? No, I don't want money from the WMF or somebody else, for I am no more in charge of the Vikidia association, and I never planned to take in charge myself the kind of project I tell about. I just share an idea for anybody to possibly take it or elaborate his own from it! Envoyé: vendredi 24 juin 2022 à 23:21 De: "Neurodivergent Netizen" À: "Wikimedia Mailing List" Objet: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Small joy of the day: Txikipedia When I had a look to the most viewed articles (not exactly recently) I had the impression that it actually reach one of its goal that is to be a resource for non native english speaker (that moreover don't have a well developped Wikipedia in their native language, such as indians of a minority language). Yet it wasn't children interest or school curriculum subjects that were much viewed but rather adult topics. We could fix that by dedicating time to subjects children would learn in school. We don’t need a separate wiki. However, regular users have in mind that the age told by any user isn't verified. One of the findings of fact in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Protecting_children%27s_privacy is that: Self-identified children may be children, adult predators, trolls(→), adult privacy-watchers testing our policies, or law enforcement personnel. So they might be children, child abusers, adults lying because they think it’s funny, people looking to bring down the reputation of websites that don’t respect the privacy of children, or a police officer that can arrest someone in real life. All of these bring up different issues as to the safety of children and the reputation of the adults that want to help them. This is why the arbitration committee decided this was the best option for editors who might actually be children: Users who appear to be children editing in good faith who disclose identifying personal information may be appropriately counseled. Deletion and oversight may be used in appropriate cases to remove the information. In other words, kids aren’t allowed to disclose their age. Of course, people editing in bad faith would be blocked, anyways. Are you saying that kids are allowed to disclose age on Wikikids? We disable the e-mail function from one's user account to another, so there is no private message unless one editor would have displayed his e-mail adress or on account on another social media. That’s going to add an obstacle to writing to oversight and the emergency team that intervenes when someone threatens suicide or homicide, along with a few other teams that have a “role account” that takes advantage of the “email this user” feature. I mean that if by chance someone or an organisation would want to developp a free documentary resource for children and would be eager to invest in it, there would be a way to do it: there is allready a base of articles in some Vikidia versions like the english one and an organisation that proved to be sustainable (actually very closed to the one of Wikipedia), then some funds would allow to catch up the time of "organic growth" that some wiki encyclopedia for children had. I guess it would be promotion, communication, and possibly paid translation to get the most interesting, best quality, most usefull articles from several wikis for children and from Simple English Wikipedia (with some data analysis/study to identify and select them), to get a core of say 2,000 or 5,000 or 10,000 articles in one language. It would be quite a big operation, but it may be worth the investment. Getting a quality free encyclopedia for children in a matter of months. Are you saying you want money from the WMF? Or someone affiliated with the WMF? From, I dream of horses She/her On Jun 24, 2022, at 2:06 PM, Mathias Damour <mathias.dam...@gmx.fr> wrote: Hi, I think that SEWP was created like it is, partly by fear of creating a project openly directed to children, and I'm afraid it precisely make it not so compelling for them. How is Simple English Wikipedia not compelling for kids? Define “not compelling.” Well, I didn't closely study SEWP, so I may be unfair, that's rather my impressions : The main rule is the simple language rather than explain a subject in a accessible way, so you can have long and not so accessible articles in simple language. When I had a look to the most viewed articles (not exactly recently) I had the impression that it actually reach one of its g
[Wikimedia-l] Re: Small joy of the day: Txikipedia
Hi, I think that SEWP was created like it is, partly by fear of creating a project openly directed to children, and I'm afraid it precisely make it not so compelling for them. How is Simple English Wikipedia not compelling for kids? Define “not compelling.” Well, I didn't closely study SEWP, so I may be unfair, that's rather my impressions : The main rule is the simple language rather than explain a subject in a accessible way, so you can have long and not so accessible articles in simple language. When I had a look to the most viewed articles (not exactly recently) I had the impression that it actually reach one of its goal that is to be a resource for non native english speaker (that moreover don't have a well developped Wikipedia in their native language, such as indians of a minority language). Yet it wasn't children interest or school curriculum subjects that were much viewed but rather adult topics. I took a look at Vikidia, thought I could do something for them, signed up with an account, read what I could find of the guidance, and created an article on Underwater diving, following the rules as I understood them, using properly attributed CC-by-sa content from Simple English Wikipedia as a basic framework, and was busy expanding it when it was deleted without discussion by user Ajeje_Brazorf with the edit summary (Please don't copy from simple wikipedia}, and no explanation why not. If I had done that on English Wikipedia I would risk losing my admin bit. If that is how new users are routinely treated there that encyclopedia is doomed. I will not be back to waste my time there. By the way, sorry for that, I guess it is not specific to Vikidia in english to experiment such diagreement with newcomers, there is a discussion on this wiki about what happened. On top of that, it would seem that you were able to sign up easily without verifying your age; both verifying age and not can be problematic. Verifying age makes things safer in terms of everyone knowing that if someone says they’re a kid, they’re a kid, and if they’re an adult, they’re an adult. Part of online grooming and police sting operations is people saying “I’m a kid, let’s meet offline." It can be problematic due to reasons of privacy. It’s not like you want everyone knowing the age of a child who’s online. That can mostly but entirely alleviated by only having the administration know everyones’ birthdate, and forcing admins to have strict account security. We don't ask nor verify the editors ages on Vikidia. There is no status attached to the user's age (with some few exception like check-user...), so few reason to lie about our age if we tell it. However, regular users have in mind that the age told by any user isn't verified. We disable the e-mail function from one's user account to another, so there is no private message unless one editor would have displayed his e-mail adress or on account on another social media. And we suppress identifying information that a child would write on his user page. To be complete, we noticed that the UK Safeguarding Vulnerable Groups Act 2006 appears to mandate some verifications for some status like admins on a wiki for children (someone that would become administrator of Vikidia in english if he is more than 16 and lives in the UK would have to provide his identity and proof that he has passed the british vetting process). See https://en.vikidia.org/wiki/Vikidia:Legal_matters#UK_Safeguarding_Vulnerable_Groups_Act_2006 Actually, Vikidia in english does exist, with 4,035 articles ! Oh, okay, so it’s going to be mostly out of whole cloth, not entirely. I’m not sure how many articles English Wikipedia has, but I know it’s in the millions. They may be a way to promote a existing (or to be launched) wiki encyclopedia for children, to "use the momentum of Wikipedia to make it easier to discover” I believe I’ve stated more or less stated that you can’t use our momentum since we need for the projects we have. That's a constant pattern, your favorite wiki may have 500 or 5 millions articles, 2 or 20,000 active users, you allway feel you lack content and editors ! ;-) I mean that if by chance someone or an organisation would want to developp a free documentary resource for children and would be eager to invest in it, there would be a way to do it: there is allready a base of articles in some Vikidia versions like the english one and an organisation that proved to be sustainable (actually very closed to the one of Wikipedia), then some funds would allow to catch up the time of "organic growth" that some wiki encyclopedia for children had. I guess it would be promotion, communication, and possibly paid translation to get the most interesting, best quality, most usefull articles from several wikis for children and from Simple English Wikipedia (with some data analysis/study to identify and select them), to get a core of say 2,000 or 5,000 or
[Wikimedia-l] Re: Small joy of the day: Txikipedia
You're right, there is a "long tail" of short articles on Wikikids especially, which nevertheless has about 7000 articles above 2000 bytes, whereas Grundschulwiki has 150 (and Vikidia in French has about 13,000 articles above 2000 bytes) The Pareto principle apply there again! Articles are far from being equally developped and popular. Hopefully, the best quality or the most developped articles are also the core subjects and the most viewed! Envoyé: vendredi 24 juin 2022 à 11:45 De: "Ziko van Dijk" À: "Wikimedia Mailing List" Objet: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Small joy of the day: Txikipedia As in Wikipedia language versions, article numbers don't count. Wikikids has many "articles" that consist only of one or two sentences. That makes it easy to reach tenthousands of "articles". :-) https://wikikids.nl/Seks_museum Kind regards Ziko Am Fr., 24. Juni 2022 um 11:42 Uhr schrieb Mathias Damour : > > Hi, > > You may compare : > - Grundschulwiki in german, launched in december 2005 with institutionnal support and enought visibility I guess, restricted to articles produced by the schools : 1,134 articles today : https://grundschulwiki.zum.de/wiki/Hauptseite > - Wikikids.nl in Dutch, launched by teachers in march 2006, yet opened both to school works and anybody : 35,839 articles today : https://wikikids.nl/ > > Note that German is the main language of about 100 millions people whereas Dutch is the one of about 24 millions peoples. > > That mean that only content produced by schools don't make enought content to be a fair resource to readers. You have to work in the Wikipedia way to thrive. > > 2d note : The number of articles on Grundschulwiki is quite similar to the number of the articles that were tagged as written by school project in Vikidia in French : https://fr.vikidia.org/wiki/Cat%C3%A9gorie:Article_fruit_d%27un_travail_scolaire 1,255 articles today (out of 35,840). > > > Envoyé: vendredi 24 juin 2022 à 10:37 > De: "Adam Sobieski" > > As for the earlier discussion in this thread about wiki-based encyclopedias for younger students, one idea is to let school districts host their own encyclopedias and to research how to federate or combine contents and content updates from and across software at each school… like a P2P network of MediaWiki software nodes. > > ___ > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/NXVGCT4CHKXDC6F5ZO2D2BT7CGTZPL2V/ > To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/BEYWVE4RB3K4J4IV6QW7MT3FZDOYLT62/ To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/3MZ7IPFEN7O44VT52GHX2ADRKNOESWGP/ To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org
[Wikimedia-l] Re: Small joy of the day: Txikipedia
Hi, You may compare : - Grundschulwiki in german, launched in december 2005 with institutionnal support and enought visibility I guess, restricted to articles produced by the schools : 1,134 articles today : https://grundschulwiki.zum.de/wiki/Hauptseite - Wikikids.nl in Dutch, launched by teachers in march 2006, yet opened both to school works and anybody : 35,839 articles today : https://wikikids.nl/ Note that German is the main language of about 100 millions people whereas Dutch is the one of about 24 millions peoples. That mean that only content produced by schools don't make enought content to be a fair resource to readers. You have to work in the Wikipedia way to thrive. 2d note : The number of articles on Grundschulwiki is quite similar to the number of the articles that were tagged as written by school project in Vikidia in French : https://fr.vikidia.org/wiki/Cat%C3%A9gorie:Article_fruit_d%27un_travail_scolaire 1,255 articles today (out of 35,840). Envoyé: vendredi 24 juin 2022 à 10:37 De: "Adam Sobieski" As for the earlier discussion in this thread about wiki-based encyclopedias for younger students, one idea is to let school districts host their own encyclopedias and to research how to federate or combine contents and content updates from and across software at each school… like a P2P network of MediaWiki software nodes. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/NXVGCT4CHKXDC6F5ZO2D2BT7CGTZPL2V/ To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org
[Wikimedia-l] Re: Small joy of the day: Txikipedia
On Thu, 23 Jun 2022 at 13:03, <wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote: Send Wikimedia-l mailing list submissions to wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To subscribe or unsubscribe, please visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/postorius/lists/wikimedia-l.lists.wikimedia.org/ You can reach the person managing the list at wikimedia-l-ow...@lists.wikimedia.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Wikimedia-l digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Small joyy: Txikipedia of the da(Neurodivergent Netizen) -- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2022 17:13:33 -0700 From: Neurodivergent Netizen <idoh.idreamofhor...@gmail.com> Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Small joy of the day: Txikipedia To: Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> Message-ID: <8c62ada1-09ee-46ff-b27d-389b6bb3e...@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_9EEB7F4B-E2E5-42FB-AED5-C7C07107CEF2" >> That wouldn't be a wise choice that WMF host such a wiki if it brings the risk of being legaly attacked on that ground, even for bad reasons and unsuccessfully, whereas it never happened to Vikidia in 15 years (and very few kind of bad buzz like "look what they teach to the children"). And of course, any WMF-affiliated wiki would be more at-risk simply because of the association with the more well-known Wikipedia. > The document is not really public yet. :-) I think I can wait until it’s public and proofread. :-) From, I dream of horses She/her > On Jun 22, 2022, at 1:45 PM, Ziko van Dijk <zvand...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hello, > At the moment I am working on a document that extensively explains how > we work on the Klexikon. If someone is interested, please send me a > private message. The document is not really public yet. :-) > Kind regards > Ziko > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Klexikon > > Am Mi., 22. Juni 2022 um 19:27 Uhr schrieb Mathias Damour > <mathias.dam...@gmx.fr>: >> >> Hi, >> >> De: "Neurodivergent Netizen" <idoh.idreamofhor...@gmail.com> >> I think a particular hurdle for a standalone WMF-affiliated kidipedia project is the COPPA, and other similar laws both in the US and elsewhere that could potentially increase civil liability. Another hurdle is that America is very aware, perhaps overly aware, of the potential safety risks when children are involved in websites. Then you add in the fact that kids are likely to continue editing Wikipedia instead of Kidipedia, and it’s not worth the extra effort. This effort would include hiring/reassigning staff so you can have a team of people for just Kidipedia, along with the background checks and identity verification needed. None of that are obstacles that aren’t in the way of kids editing the existing projects. >> >> I predict a WMF-affiliated kidipedia would largely be abandoned quite quickly. >> >> You are probably right. I would say COPPA may not be the biggest hurdle, yet the british "UK Safeguarding Vulnerable Groups Act 2006" is another one, and moreover the fact that "America is very aware, perhaps overly aware, of the potential safety risks when children are involved in websites" (and I would also say that "America" weight more the right of parents to control what is taught to their children and less the right of the children to inform themselves - the latter being upheld by the Convention on the Rights of the Child, which the US didn't ratificate - compared to other countries). >> We reviewed it on https://en.vikidia.org/wiki/Vikidia:Legal_matters >> >> That wouldn't be a wise choice that WMF host such a wiki if it brings the risk of being legaly attacked on that ground, even for bad reasons and unsuccessfully, whereas it never happened to Vikidia in 15 years (and very few kind of bad buzz like "look what they teach to the children"). >> >> You tell about "hiring/reassigning staff so you can have a team of people for just Kidipedia", well, that's quite exactly the point I adressed on this blog post : >> Vikidia, l’anti-professionnalisation >> https://www.wikimedia.fr/vikidia-lanti-professionnalisation/ >> ...to tell that the vision of children needing to be only alongside their closed family and professionals workers - and that it should be the same if a wiki for children is set (that we would need professionnal educators either to write the articles, to design the project or to manage the community or all that together) - did cause much delay to the wiki encyclopedias for children, and how we do otherwise on Vikidia. >> >> Reminder, the Wikikids project was developped on this page and subpages
[Wikimedia-l] Re: Small joy of the day: Txikipedia
Ok, I did read your message too fast... I nevertheless know Simple English Wikipedia. I think that SEWP was created like it is, partly by fear of creating a project openly directed to children, and I'm afraid it precisely make it not so compelling for them. > The thing is, as the main English Wikipedia more specialist, and therefore more complicated, we have a Simple English Wikipedia that we shouldn’t let languish in the hopes of creating a children's encyclopedia out of whole cloth. Actually, Vikidia in english does exist, with 4,035 articles ! https://en.vikidia.org Unfortunately, the developpment of the wikis for children is very uneven, and it seems hard to overcome the delay when they were launched later one than another or missed their launch. For exemple I know about two or three unlucky attempts in german before Klexikon* (and I beleive German had or has a very good potential for such a project - demography and cultural ground favourable to children participation and their freedom of information). Yet it was in Dutch that Wikikids was launched early and is now quite big and active. They may be a way to promote a existing (or to be launched) wiki encyclopedia for children, to "use the momentum of Wikipedia to make it easier to discover" as just said Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga, but somewhat different from the way they chooses on the Basque Wikipedia : That would be to let appear the kid equivalent article in the "In other projects" section. Or maybe a very active work both in promotion and gathering a substantial set of core articles (picking the best/most usefull, most viewed articles from several kids wikis and Simple English Wikipedia, translating...) ** *- the original "Wikikids" proposal as a Wikimedia project was made by german speaking wikipedians in early 2005 : https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2005-January/015108.html https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikikids=89757 but was chilled down by the reactions on this list... - Grundschulwiki was launched in december 2005, it still exists but is restricted to works done in primary classroom and therefore is not much developped : https://grundschulwiki.zum.de/index.php?title=Hauptseite=prev=""> - a 2010 project ended as they were told to request a Simple German Wikipedia and then denied to open it: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Redaktion_Medizin/Projekt_Kinderleicht https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Simple_German_3 Meanwhile Wikikids.nl was launched in March 2006 and Vikidia in French in November 2006. Envoyé: jeudi 23 juin 2022 à 21:15 De: "Neurodivergent Netizen" À: "Wikimedia Mailing List" Objet: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Small joy of the day: Txikipedia The English Wikipedia has a “plain language” wikipedia, the Simple English Wikipedia. It’s targeted not only towards children, but also towards people who aren’t fluent in English and/or have learning disabilities. A few “internet hack” memes say “If you can’t understand the Wikipedia article, change en to simple!” Basically, the English Wikipedia community has two very general-to-slightly-specialist encyclopedias. Unfortunately, I’ve witnessed in years past that the Simple English Wikipedias’ activity level was, shall we say, wanting. I hope that’s changed; I suspect kids would enjoy learning to research for the purpose of writing on Simple before moving on to the so-called “real” English Wikipedia, but that might require some assistance that might not always exist offline. I think Simple would certainly be a good place to start making Wikipedia more accessible to 8-10 year olds. From, I dream of horses She/her On Jun 23, 2022, at 11:40 AM, Mathias Damour <mathias.dam...@gmx.fr> wrote: Hi, De: "WereSpielChequers" <werespielchequ...@gmail.com> A childrens' encyclopaedia written for nine year olds would surely be very different than one written for thirteen year olds. And content that parents of fourteen year olds thought was age inappropriate in Alabama might be thought appropriate or even bowdlerised by parents of ten year olds in London. In other words, are you sure that one single childrens' encyclopaedia is the answer to either the problem of reading age or age appropriate content? There is one thing that is sure, that "one single childrens' encyclopaedia" is a great step for children (and often teenagers and older people) than having just Wikipedia available, and they love it. Where I think that Wikipedia could and should change re this is in our use of jargon. To my mind a "general interest" english language encyclopaedia should be written in plain English. I suspect other language versions have similar issues. Perhaps if we focussed more on this we would make it easier for those who wish to create childrens' versions. Yet
[Wikimedia-l] Re: Small joy of the day: Txikipedia
ars of participation, or a 15 yo with 3 years of experience are often very valuables editors, either as writer of for maintenance and community tasks. Adults as well have to learn to write on Vikidia, be they educators or not. Just as it is well know that a journalist or a scientist, which are supposed to be skilled is writing articles, often don't fit immediatly with the style that is expected on Wikipedia. Mathias Damour [[User:Astirmays]]___ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/UHX6EVQUI233NCUHK2HE54HDOYOSSCUB/ To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org
[Wikimedia-l] Re: Small joy of the day: Txikipedia
Hi, De: "Neurodivergent Netizen" I think a particular hurdle for a standalone WMF-affiliated kidipedia project is the COPPA, and other similar laws both in the US and elsewhere that could potentially increase civil liability. Another hurdle is that America is very aware, perhaps overly aware, of the potential safety risks when children are involved in websites. Then you add in the fact that kids are likely to continue editing Wikipedia instead of Kidipedia, and it’s not worth the extra effort. This effort would include hiring/reassigning staff so you can have a team of people for just Kidipedia, along with the background checks and identity verification needed. None of that are obstacles that aren’t in the way of kids editing the existing projects. I predict a WMF-affiliated kidipedia would largely be abandoned quite quickly. You are probably right. I would say COPPA may not be the biggest hurdle, yet the british "UK Safeguarding Vulnerable Groups Act 2006" is another one, and moreover the fact that "America is very aware, perhaps overly aware, of the potential safety risks when children are involved in websites" (and I would also say that "America" weight more the right of parents to control what is taught to their children and less the right of the children to inform themselves - the latter being upheld by the Convention on the Rights of the Child, which the US didn't ratificate - compared to other countries). We reviewed it on https://en.vikidia.org/wiki/Vikidia:Legal_matters That wouldn't be a wise choice that WMF host such a wiki if it brings the risk of being legaly attacked on that ground, even for bad reasons and unsuccessfully, whereas it never happened to Vikidia in 15 years (and very few kind of bad buzz like "look what they teach to the children"). You tell about "hiring/reassigning staff so you can have a team of people for just Kidipedia", well, that's quite exactly the point I adressed on this blog post : Vikidia, l’anti-professionnalisation https://www.wikimedia.fr/vikidia-lanti-professionnalisation/ ...to tell that the vision of children needing to be only alongside their closed family and professionals workers - and that it should be the same if a wiki for children is set (that we would need professionnal educators either to write the articles, to design the project or to manage the community or all that together) - did cause much delay to the wiki encyclopedias for children, and how we do otherwise on Vikidia. Reminder, the Wikikids project was developped on this page and subpages : https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikikids Envoyé: mercredi 22 juin 2022 à 12:37 De: "Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga" À: "Wikimedia Mailing List" Objet: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Small joy of the day: Txikipedia From our experience, is just the opposite: Wikipedia is not asking any extra step nor age confirmation, and legally you can have an account even if you are underage. Children are consulting Wikipedia without limits, and they can find adult content easily. We don't have any advice about that, nor filters at Commons, where you can find even porn using words that were not intended for that. The place is open, and we have massive visits from children, so providing them a better place, thought for them (as our strategic direction says) is better that not providing at all. I can only agree! Mathias Damour [[User:Astirmays]] ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/HS4SV6YSS5G7M4R53YJGFPGWHX24GMP3/ To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org
[Wikimedia-l] Re: Small joy of the day: Txikipedia
Hi Ziko, Samuel and everybody, De: "Ziko van Dijk" Hello Samuel, Thank you for your mail. I would like to see more attention from the Wikimedia movement for the target group children age ca. 8-14. I am afraid there is no real comprehensive study about the best way to provide encyclopedic wiki content to children, or even to involve them in the content creation. In general, children are a very special and vulnerable group. This can become problematic when they are directly involved on a platform, and when it comes to the content itself. And yet it works well with Vikidia, which has been active for more than 15 years, writing an average of 6 articles par day since the beginning ! There is some blog posts that elaborate how it works, what it implies and what it means to let a multi-age community work together, unfortunatly only in french (except one in english): https://www.wikimedia.fr/author/astirmays/ My english is certainly not good enought to translate them properly, yet I would be glad to get some help to do so or to find a way to get them translated (anybody tell me if you wish to help translating 2 or 3 of theses posts !) One also reviews some of the commons objections to such a project and how we adress them. Samuel Klein schrieb am Mo. 20. Juni 2022 um 02:25: More languages should try that. a) simple skin hack, b) loving and lovely idea, c) more compelling to me than the standalone kidipedia projects :) Anyway, thanks for improving my weekend, Txikipedians. SJ Actually when you have a "standalone kidipedia project", it has the great benefit to allow to have its own community, and not to be marginalized inside a much bigger project. Both young readers and young editors love it. I guess that the choice may depend on the size of the "mother" Wikipedia and the potential community to gather on this project. Mathias Damour [[User:Astirmays]]___ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/44SJI3LVF2SIZUMTQS43F5MRBENZYEQT/ To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Monthly skill share idea
Le 16/10/2018 à 09:23, Peter Southwood a écrit : Matthias, Since you presumably have a better suggestion, go ahead and suggest it. I may have some suggestions, anyone can have one, provided the target is met. While you are at it, look into a solution for all the air transport for even more frivolous objectives, also the land transport. We could do with a few good workable alternatives for daily commuting. I assume you do not own or use a private motor vehicle, they are generally less efficient than large passenger aircraft. Sure, except that one typically count a trip by hours, and hours in an aircraft consume far more by passenger than the biggest car. The point is not to wait for "workable alternatives" if there is no perfect ones, but as far as transport is concerned, to travel less often, less far, less quickly... or possibly for a longer time. Also, a lot depends on where the trainers start from. Wikimedia is a worldwide movement, they do not all have to come from WMF headquarters, and you appear not to take into consideration the chain reaction effect, You told it, we may consider that we are very closed to a chain reaction effect in global warming if nothing changes rapidly. once there are people in a region with the skills, they can spread them locally far more efficiently, but somewhere it has to start. Cheers, Peter -Original Message- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Mathias Damour Sent: 16 October 2018 07:49 To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Monthly skill share idea Le 15/10/2018 à 13:36, Peter Southwood a écrit : I like the idea. Once you have worked out how to do it efficiently, maybe the WMF can send out trainers to places where the skills are thin on the ground. Cheers, Peter Do you mean burning hundreds of litres of jet fuel for one or a few workshop for an handful of people? How irresponsible. You may didn't get the emergency of global warming mitigation. For the Wikimedia movement, to get organised in a way that lead to drop the flights needed by 5 or 10 time in the next few years would be only taking its fair share in the action. -Original Message- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of John Lubbock Sent: 15 October 2018 13:14 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Monthly skill share idea Hi all, after talking to community members at the London meetup yesterday, I want to suggest that we start running a monthly skillshare after work at the Wikimedia UK office. It would be good to organise a 12 month programme with skillshares on things like 'getting an article to featured article status', AWB, Wikidata infoboxes, something on commons or photography perhaps. Would anybody like to suggest other subjects which it would be good to have a workshop on? We need a list of 12 which would have some broad appeal to the community and chapter members. I would suggest Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday, maybe first week of the month. How does that sound to everyone? ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> -- Mathias Damour 49 rue Carnot 74000 Annecy 04 57 09 10 56 06 27 13 65 51 mathias.dam...@gmx.fr ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Monthly skill share idea
Le 15/10/2018 à 13:36, Peter Southwood a écrit : I like the idea. Once you have worked out how to do it efficiently, maybe the WMF can send out trainers to places where the skills are thin on the ground. Cheers, Peter Do you mean burning hundreds of litres of jet fuel for one or a few workshop for an handful of people? How irresponsible. You may didn't get the emergency of global warming mitigation. For the Wikimedia movement, to get organised in a way that lead to drop the flights needed by 5 or 10 time in the next few years would be only taking its fair share in the action. -Original Message- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of John Lubbock Sent: 15 October 2018 13:14 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Monthly skill share idea Hi all, after talking to community members at the London meetup yesterday, I want to suggest that we start running a monthly skillshare after work at the Wikimedia UK office. It would be good to organise a 12 month programme with skillshares on things like 'getting an article to featured article status', AWB, Wikidata infoboxes, something on commons or photography perhaps. Would anybody like to suggest other subjects which it would be good to have a workshop on? We need a list of 12 which would have some broad appeal to the community and chapter members. I would suggest Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday, maybe first week of the month. How does that sound to everyone? ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> -- Mathias Damour [[User:Astirmays]] ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Politics
Le 05/02/2017 à 10:45, Gerard Meijssen a écrit : Hoi, Yair you are wrong. When our director spoke up against the ukaze of Mr Trump about people visiting our office, the only office of the Wikimedia Foundation, it directly affected our work, our mission. We have WMF employees that cannot come to the office any longer. We have employees that cannot visit their family when there are grave family situations. I also agree with Mike's post. In another hand, I think that Gerard Meijssen's argument is not satisfactory. I mean, if one day a substantial carbon tax, which I personally wish for, would multiply the cost of plane travels by 2 or 4 times (say, not in a day), I hope the WMF would not protest against it (I don't tell about supporting it), even if it would "directly affect our work", or actually the way we use to work now, with much intercontinental flights for a few days of meeting. -- Mathias Damour [[User:Astirmays]] ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Arbital, another Wikipedia competitor/complement
Le 14/03/2016 02:03, David Gerard a écrit : Being put together by Eliezer Yudkowsky of LessWrong. Content is cc-by-sa 3.0, don't know about the software. https://arbital.com/p/arbital_ambitions/ Rather than the "encyclopedia" approach, it tries to be more pedagogical, teaching the reader at their level. The problem of "readers coming in with different levels of background knowledge" is actual. Yet I believe that to elaborate just another (more accessible) level resource, however sticking to the "encyclopedia approach" that proved successful, is good step to answer this issue. That's what we do on Vikidia and Wikikids.nl, and young or not-so-young readers really appreciate it. I don't know if one day these contents will be reused and processed to automatically generate information that would precisely fit to someone's level, yet if it happens once, another material than Wikipedia may help ! The "Wikipedia for children" model works well (in quality, traffic...) in at least two languages. I would say that the current most difficult thing is to "scale" it in other languages. That's where some help would have a big impact, say to produce in a way or another 10 000 important and quality encyclopedia articles for children in some big languages to catch up with the two most developed "Wikipedia for children". More on : https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/List_of_wikis_for_children https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikikids -- Mathias Damour mathias.dam...@gmx.fr [[User:Astirmays]] ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Q1 Fundraising Update
Le 10/10/2015 18:43, Toby Negrin a écrit : Hi Folks -- I would suggest that if you are unhappy with the banners you apply your energy to the annual planning process[1]. As long as the budget goes up 20% year over year and page views fall, the Fundraising team will need to crank up the banners. For sure. Thus we may question why the budget should go up 20% year over year. The 2015-2016 Annual Plan doesn't really justify it. How long do they plan to keep this growth? What is the limits to this growth if the fundraising team is just supposed to meet the targets it is given ? Will the limit be by choice of the WMF or one day failing to meet theses targets, despite more and more insistent banners? What about capping the WMF growth just as the chapters funding was capped? What about degrowth? Would it be impossible for the WMF to fulfil its mission with the budget it had, say, 3 years ago? It's worth pointing out that Fundraising is one of the strongest voices for fiscal restraint at the Foundation. -Toby [1] https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/2015-2016_Annual_Plan On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 4:09 PM, Pete Forsyth <petefors...@gmail.com> wrote: I want to be clear about my previous message -- I am not questioning any individual person's integrity in the process, and I know from firsthand experience that a tremendous amount of good work goes into this stuff. But I think the process that has evolved around developing the campaign is broken. In Megan's message, I see a great deal of emphasis on the specific points that are attributable to community suggestions/requests. But there is a bigger point that gets lost: It's not about where the ideas come from, it's about whether the final result "gets it right." If the WMF produced mission-compatible banners without any community consultation at all, I'd be happy, and I think most others would be too. Running an open process is not the right way to measure success here. An open process is one of many ways to surface problems, and maybe to generate ideas; but it's not the be-all end-all. The fund-raising department is clearly held accountable on its easily-measured performance. It needs to also be held accountable to the mission. How to do that is a difficult design and management problem, and I don't pretend to have the perfect answer. But it's something that needs to be done. Pete [[User:Peteforsyth]] -- Mathias Damour [[User:Astirmays]] ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
Re: [Wikimedia-l] 2015 Strategy/Community consultation on the Wikipedia for children idea
Le 18/03/2015 13:59, Marc A. Pelletier a écrit : On 15-03-18 03:09 AM, Mathias Damour wrote: [from the Convention on the Rights of the Child] [...] this right shall include freedom to seek, receive and impart information and ideas of all kinds Interestingly enough, to me this reads /against/ the idea of a Wikipedia for Kids insofar as the intent is to curate, limit, or restrict the encyclopedia to material or language apropriate for children. I really don't see your point. Children and older contributors can perfectly understand and comprehend that the the content must be appropriate for children, just as (and additionaly) it as to be encyclopedic content and respect the NPOV. They can go somewhere else for another kind of content. When they are on such a wiki for some time, they often are the most active defenders of its principles and rules. For instance, would a Russian Kids' Wikipedia carefully avoid promotion of homosexuality as their law now demands (to pick one salient example amongst thousands). There is not thousands examples, this kind af question is definitely not a day-to-day issue on Vikidia in French. There is so much to write on other subjects. Le 18/03/2015 14:22, Fæ a écrit : On 18 March 2015 at 12:59, Marc A. Pelletier m...@uberbox.org wrote: For instance, would a Russian Kids' Wikipedia carefully avoid promotion of homosexuality as their law now demands (to pick one salient example amongst thousands). Yes it would. Though this has been bounced about as a project for many years, with a few reasonable examples being implemented (invariably having issues for long term maintenance), it is a difficult and debatable business. The topic of LGBT is a good test, as making educational materials available to children addressing sexuality and gender is always controversial, and at the same time there is no doubt that it is needed. Where did you hear about such project having issues for long term maintenance ? The main issue some (not all) of these projects have is just a very common one : to gather a significant community. I must say we don't have enough content on sexuality on fr.vikidia (in my opinion) yet the controversies on those subjects are not no frequent. I remember one about the content on the article Masturbation, some wanting it to remain vague and allusive, some other ones wanting it more informative. That's not such a big deal. By the way, there is a frequent asked questions/Questions and answers on: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikikids/Questions_and_answers -- Mathias Damour https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Astirmays https://fr.vikidia.org/wiki/Utilisateur:Astirmays ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] 2015 Strategy/Community consultation on the Wikipedia for children idea
Le 18/03/2015 02:32, Samuel Klein a écrit : Thanks for summarizing this, Mathias. I love the work that has been done so far on Wikikids, and think WMF should think about creative ways to make such projects successful. Gathering knowledge for all audiences requires simpler language than most wikipedias have; and building a culture of contribution works best when there are ways for young people to contribute and collaborate. Sure, I noted that the an article of the 1989 Convention on the Rights of the Child looks very closed to the Wikimedia vision and mission statements: Article 13 - 1. The child shall have the right to freedom of expression; this right shall include freedom to seek, receive and impart information and ideas of all kinds, regardless of frontiers, either orally, in writing or in print, in the form of art, or through any other media of the child's choice. I don't know if it will work as a WM-hosted project, under the current system. This depends on whether we become more flexible in creating new and independent communities. But we should consider all of the ways to realize our mission, including through partners whose tools policies contributor networks look very different. The policy on Wikikids/Vikidia is very closed to the one of Wikipedia, the novelty being just to acknowledge it could be implemented to children content and contributions. On tools I fully agree with you : for example I think that with some data mining in existing simple content (Simple English Wikipedia, Vikidia and Wikikids and others) to point out the best quality/fitting, most usefull, most needed contents and articles, and then translation/adaptation from one another of those pointed out content, with the help of other tools and communities (such as Duolingo), we could greatly develop the content of those existing or to come wikis. That's only my ideas on the subject by the way. On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 8:56 PM, Mathias Damour mathias.dam...@laposte.net wrote: Hi, They were quite a few expressed thoughts on the 2015 Strategy - Community consultation that raised in a way or another the idea of a Wikipedia for children. I've made some excerpt of them on the following page : https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikikids/Excerpt_from_ the_2015_Strategy/Community_consultation It actually does exist and are thriving in some languages (especially in Dutch and French, and we actually worked for a while on [[m:Wikikids]]), however they seem to be also some rampant objections. The WMF may not be the most suited organization to host and promote such wikis, is it? -- Mathias Damour https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Astirmays https://fr.vikidia.org/wiki/Utilisateur:Astirmays ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] 2015 Strategy/Community consultation on the Wikipedia for children idea
Le 18/03/2015 20:41, Marc A. Pelletier a écrit : On 15-03-18 02:19 PM, Mathias Damour wrote: [...] the content must be appropriate for children [...] The problem is exactly that. What is or is not appropriate for children is an inherently *political* question, the answer to which is inherently culture- religion- and governement-centric. What *you* define as appropriate is absolutely different from what *I* would - illustrated by the very concept of believing that there /is/ such a thing as not appropriate for children to begin with. It still seems odd to me that those considerations would be some prevailing reason NOT to develop such a resource. In the same time, we have to take it as a fact and it can be a reason why the WMF may not be the appropriate organization to host and promote such wikis, being immersed in a certain climate surrounding children. I quoted above the Convention on the Rights of the Child, which was not ratified by the US. One of the reason for that may be a conception of the rights of the parents to control what their children can be taught or the information they can reach, which would be slightly more extended in the US than in the average country. I mean rights of the parents against the rights of the government and against the eventual rights of the children to seek, receive and impart information and ideas of all kinds, be it very resembling to the freely share in the sum of all knowledge - empower people... That would be the ground for a tacit policy I've heard of on en.wp that would be don't tell us you are a minor. The basis of Simple English Wikipedia are also resembling it : don't tell it's for children (and consequently it isn't really for children). Undoubtedly it doesn't prevent people from the US, among other countries, to be involved in and to benefit from such a resource. And the chapters may be more suited to support such a project/resource. Several of them already do. For instance, would a Russian Kids' Wikipedia carefully avoid promotion of homosexuality as their law now demands (to pick one salient example amongst thousands). There is not thousands examples, this kind af question is definitely not a day-to-day issue on Vikidia in French. There is so much to write on other subjects. There /are/ thousand of examples unless Vikidia is a 1:1 map to the French Wikipedia with no selection or curation. Every single article that has not been included is a political statement, and raises a question about its propriety. That you think that this kind of question is not a day-to-day issue on Vikidia simply means that you are presuming the answer - otherwise there would be nothing to curate. Vikidia is not a selection or curation, it's about writing new articles which are independent from their counterpart on Wikipedia in the same language. Otherwise we couldn't meet the objective to be more affordable for children. However we make it easy by interwiki links to reach the Wikipedia article on the same subject if one want to know more about it. Some article are even longer on Vikidia than their counterpart on Wikipédia, such as : https://fr.vikidia.org/wiki/%C3%8Atre_vivant Does it mean that projects like Vikidia are not valid and should not exist? No. It is perfectly allowable for any group (including groups of volunteers) to pick and curate some fraction of our projects for their use and according to their criteria. In fact, we should *encourage* such reuse. It *does* mean that it is not apropriate for the projects to create or endorse such political endeavors, however. -- Mathias Damour https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Astirmays https://fr.vikidia.org/wiki/Utilisateur:Astirmays ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] 2015 Strategy/Community consultation on the Wikipedia for children idea
Le 18/03/2015 16:23, David Gerard a écrit : http://schools-wikipedia.org does most of the job. And teachers LOVE it. We should give this project more love and assistance, it's basically the refutation of all attempts to, er, filter the base product. Teachers love it, what about children? Le 18/03/2015 16:51, Marc A. Pelletier a écrit : On 15-03-18 11:23 AM, David Gerard wrote: We should give this project more love and assistance, it's basically the refutation of all attempts to, er, filter the base product. I agree. Whenever a group of people decide to curate some subset of our projects with an eye towards their needs, then I count it as a win (even in the cases where I would object to the curation choices myself). The fact is it is just a set of curated (and choosen) Wikipedia articles. What if they are still mostly too complicated ? Le 18/03/2015 17:33, David Gerard a écrit : On 18 March 2015 at 15:51, Marc A. Pelletier m...@uberbox.org wrote: What irks me is the idea of giving imprimatur to something we curate, or to do any sort of curation ourselves (that is, the movement or the Foundation). All the knowledge means All, not some subset thereof. In the case of Schools Wikipedia, it's worked quite well - the editorial review heavy lifting was substantially done by en:wp volunteers. They specifically approached it as what would we expect in an English school situation? though it was intended for use outside the UK (they just used the English National Curriculum as their guide). Should children be only allowed to be interested to their school curriculum? There is so much subjects to be interested in and to learn about. Le 18/03/2015 17:38, David Gerard a écrit : On 18 March 2015 at 16:07, Richard Symonds richard.symo...@wikimedia.org.uk wrote: Indeed. http://schools-wikipedia.org is already used around the world - it's a great example of what can be done if Wikimedians work with (even passively with) other orgs. Everyone likes it, not many are coming forward to lead the ongoing update cycle since User:Bozmo left SOS Children (the charity who put it together). (And I'm not volunteering.) Not sure what to do about that. Well I suggest to do it on a full new open wiki, to use the Simple English Wikipedia content when it fits, to promote the translation of already made good work on other languages equivalent of such a wiki, and to allow fully new articles to be written and bettered. Yet even the Simple English Wikipedia article are not always the best content to have. You may compare: https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_United_States https://en.vikidia.org/wiki/History_of_the_USA , written in the last few month by a eleven years old vikidian (however a quite experienced user) and... I can't find it on schools-wikipedia.org, there is just http://schools-wikipedia.org/wp/u/United_States.htm I wonder how would someone curate the 168,391 bytes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_United_States to make it fit to school children. And here is how we can curate, that's to say rewrite a few parts and add some images, an article from Simple English Wikipedia : https://en.vikidia.org/w/index.php?title=Roman_housediff=76306oldid=28149 -- Mathias Damour https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Astirmays https://fr.vikidia.org/wiki/Utilisateur:Astirmays ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] 2015 Strategy/Community consultation on the Wikipedia for children idea
Le 18/03/2015 15:02, Amir E. Aharoni a écrit : Both were printed in Russian in the Soviet Union, so they also had, um, ideological adaptations, which I was smart enough to spot (yay for me), but the reason I loved it is that it had large illustrations, clear and large font and engaging language. It doesn't mean that the articles were short, for example - some of them were several pages long. It just means that it was well-adapted. I don't know how to create a new thing that would do his well. Maybe some consultation from education experts would be good. And these would have to come from different cultures - again, not fot censorship, but for better adaptation. Children in Arab countries won't necessarily be engaged by the same things as children in France, and children in Russia won't necessarily love the illustration style enjoyed by children in Argentina. Thanks for backing up the idea, yet it's not like nothing would have been done to that day. The method was nearly simply to pick up the method of Wikipedia, and gather contributors of all ages just as Wikipedia gather contributors of all educational backgrounds/levels. They is also some progressive education ideas behind this functioning. Actually they didn't give a method, but rather just made us think or know that it was feasible with and for children. The result you can get an idea by this Google Trends on Wikibooks, Commons, Wikiversity, Wikisource and Vikidia in France or Wikibooks, Commons, Wikiversity, Wikisource und Wikikids in the Netherlands: http://www.google.com/trends/explore?q=wikibooks%2C%20commons%2C%20wiktionary%2C%20wikisource%2C%20vikidiageo=FR http://www.google.com/trends/explore?q=wikibooks%2C%20commons%2C%20wiktionary%2C%20wikisource%2C%20wikikidsgeo=NL But it took more than 8 years. More on http://blog.wikimedia.fr/vikidia-in-english-opens-today-lets-build-a-children-wiki-encyclopedia-6400 -- Mathias Damour https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Astirmays https://fr.vikidia.org/wiki/Utilisateur:Astirmays ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
[Wikimedia-l] 2015 Strategy/Community consultation on the Wikipedia for children idea
Hi, They were quite a few expressed thoughts on the 2015 Strategy - Community consultation that raised in a way or another the idea of a Wikipedia for children. I've made some excerpt of them on the following page : https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikikids/Excerpt_from_the_2015_Strategy/Community_consultation It actually does exist and are thriving in some languages (especially in Dutch and French, and we actually worked for a while on [[m:Wikikids]]), however they seem to be also some rampant objections. The WMF may not be the most suited organization to host and promote such wikis, is it? -- Mathias Damour https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Astirmays https://fr.vikidia.org/wiki/Utilisateur:Astirmays ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF is shutting down grantmaking for good projects for 3 months for no reason
Le 03/01/2015 12:55, Romaine Wiki a écrit : Hi Fae, I haven't seen a page about this on wiki yet. It appears that various volunteers who are working on organizing are informed about this behind the scenes directly. It also was mentioned in a discussion about the organisation of Wiki Loves Monuments which raised many concerns. It was first mentioned in this mail: https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikilovesmonuments/2014-December/007597.html + https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikilovesmonuments/2014-December/007599.html Later confirmed by Alex Wang: https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikilovesmonuments/2014-December/007600.html https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikilovesmonuments/2014-December/007603.html As I said this is not a positive campaign they intent, this is a negative campaign as other projects are a victim here. Yes, prioritizing is not a problem. But this does not feel good at all. This is not good for project organizers nor for the gender gap projects, nor for other projects. Romaine Thanks Romaine, that sounds terrible. I can imagine if Wikipedia was managed that way in its first period or anytime : We will proactively address our gap in History for the next 3 months, so please no more biology article until may (or maybe later we'll tell you) The fact is we can't rely or very poorly on the WMF anymore. Or just in the same way some people may apply for some governmental organisations/agencies subsidies and have to be skilled enough, not in their core project but to fit in the expectations, know the tricks for that and have the ability to deal with such hitches without being discouraged. User:Pi zero made a pretty good point here: https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:LilaTretikov_(WMF)oldid=10876939#Infrastructure The WMF is internally structured to centrally create major software initiatives to be designed, implemented, and imposed all from the top down. This is the way commercial enterprises approach proprietary software, so it's natural that people who come from that world (both administrators and software developers) would tend to do things that way. The approach is well suited to the purpose of creating software that maximizes customers' dependency on the commercial enterprise. In other words, it minimizes customers' ablity to improve, generalize, duplicate, or even maintain the software on their own. However, this approach is deeply inappropriate if you're trying to nurture volunteer wikis. (...) -- Mathias Damour User:Astirmays ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF is shutting down grantmaking for good projects for 3 months for no reason
Le 03/01/2015 14:58, Jane Darnell a écrit : As a member of the IEG committee I am happy to say that there is no need to panic. WLM is highly successful project and no one is talking about shutting it down, or any other project for that matter. The current campaign is scheduled to be one of hopefully many, targeted at the community in order to generate themed proposals. The current growth of highly diverse and inspirational proposals takes increasingly more energy to manage, judge, and maintain. By introducing a three-month long theme, it is hoped that the following will occur: 1) Grant committee members in their voluntary role as proposal reviewers and community sponsors will experience less burn-out in managing proposals as their will be more cross pollination per cohort of proposers and their proposals. 2) A targeted campaign to attract proposals will enable easier translation across projects if the target audience can be identified in advance 3) A targeted campaign will attract more volunteer committee members to manage proposals, hopefully attracting local experts in various Wikimedia projects. The Gendergap will be the first theme. I think it's a great idea! How can WLM attract more female participation? Any ideas? No, I have ideas for other good projects, not this one. I think that the capacity by the WMF - and actual action - to switch on and off the grants without debate and even notice depending on such thought and so-called campaign is prejudicial, like the capacity to switch on and off the donations from one country like - say Russia - is prejudicial too. Le 03/01/2015 22:21, Romaine Wiki a écrit : The Grants page says https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Start : Supporting mission-allied people and organizations around the world. This is not supporting, but demotivating, demolishing, discouraging, and frustrating the organizing volunteers. More simply, I would say that supporting does not mean governing or piloting. All things considered, Sue Gardner was eventually wrong. Give the fundraising and the grantmaking back to the chapters. -- Mathias Damour User:Astirmays ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: Our final email
Le 19/12/2014 00:08, Liam Wyatt a écrit : This email was sent by WMF fundraising today. I'm embarrassed. Read the email first, then I'll tell you why, below. Then what ? I suggest the reasons why the WMF and Sue Gardner did struggle for years against the ability of the chapters to fundraise were bad, or at least not good enough. They were complaint about the fundraising banners and messages, I guess one of the reason to centralize fundraising was to have full control on it and be able to switch it on and off at any time in any country (such as Russia), yet I don't think that it's even desirable. Furthermore the WMF shouldn't process the Project and Event Grants and Individual Engagement Grants in the countries were there is an active chapter. -- Mathias Damour User:Astirmay ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Why is bank transfer no longer possible?
Le 19/12/2014 08:33, Gerard Meijssen a écrit : Hoi, I blogged about this [1]. By ignoring the rest of the world, they effectively give ownership to the WMF to the USA way of working. On a more practical level, they hand over money for their convenience that is in my opinion an absolute waste. By using a UK organisation to process donations, they ignore the UK chapter while they make demands of chapters to raise funds. PS I do hope the WMF gets all the money it is seeking. +1 Funny I first read your last sentence: ''PS I do hope the WMF gets all the money its sinking.'' ... -- Mathias Damour User:Astirmays ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fundraising in the UK
- Mail original - De: Fæ fae...@gmail.com Actually, under Sue Gardner, the offer was that if the chapter did change its ways, it would become a payment processor again. As a trustee at that time, who was sent all the correspondence, this was exactly what was put in writing. And did you believe her ? Mathias ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fundraising in the UK
Le 05/12/2014 19:22, Michael Maggs a écrit : Hi Nick Over the last few years the Foundation has decisively moved away from allowing local chapters to take part in the on-screen fundraiser, preferring to centralise the work in spite of the loss of the available local tax reliefs (such as Gift Aid in the UK). Many chapters, including the UK, would have liked to have been part of the fundraiser, but the previous ED, Sue Gardner, determined that that would not be permitted. WMUK regretted that decision, and we responded to it here: https://wikimedia.org.uk/wiki/Open_letter_to_Sue_Gardner. I wonder if Sue Gardner has worked more on anything than centralizing the Wikimedia movement by various means and curtailing chapter growth and capacity. I also wonder if she was mandated to do that by the board or if she just implemented her own views. From this message of Ting Chen, it seems that it was her own will :-( https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2014-June/072405.html As some of you may remember that the years 2010 to 2012 [when he was chair of the Wikimedia Foundation] were especially difficult years in relationship between the Foundation and the chapters. The Foundation experimented a few approaches and changed again and again its direction. And the discussion about how to distribute the funds raised on our projects had repeatedly kindled, sometimes very violent confrontations. On one of the board meetings earlier of 2011 Sue said to the board that she never considered this confrontation as a question of who wins. She wanted a good and sound solution for the problems that are out there. After the Haifa Wikimania the discussion became even hotter and sometimes it really felt insulting. I always considered myself as a person who is very ballanced and who can keep his tempel, but at that point I must say that I was very unnerved by the dispute. We had our board meeting in San Francisco and after that Sue asked me to stay for a few days to give a speech on the All Hands Meeting of the staff. So one evening we went out for a dinner together and naturally, the discussion came back to the fund raising and fund dissemination topic. And I asked Sue with a sigh:Do you still think that it is not about who wins? And she said:Yes, of cause not. Ting Chen seems to have believed her :-( -- Mathias Damour F-74000 Annecy ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Thank you...
Le 02/06/2014 20:28, Ting Chen a écrit : Hello dear all, one of the most memorable moment in my work together with Sue was one evening in October 2011. As some of you may remember that the years 2010 to 2012 were especially difficult years in relationship between the Foundation and the chapters. The Foundation experimented a few approaches and changed again and again its direction. And the discussion about how to distribute the funds raised on our projects had repeatedly kindled, sometimes very violent confrontations. (..) That's interesting though I'm not sure I exactly get between who was the violent confrontations. I don't blame my chapter for being at present the model student under the set rules for chapters, yet I deplore the long-lasting fight against the chapter's autonomy or growth and feel in accordance with the criticisms that were made notably by Wikimedia Deutchland and Wikimedia UK: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:APG/FDC_portal/Comments/Extensive_feedback_from_WMDE_to_the_FDC_process https://wikimedia.org.uk/wiki/File:Open_letter_to_Sue_Gardner_regarding_non-renewal.pdf -- Mathias Damour https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Astirmays ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikipedia and Universities
Le 06/05/2014 16:24, Leigh Thelmadatter a écrit : (...) There is even the assumption on the part of many that this is the purview of chapters. Why shouldn't it be ? -- Mathias Damour https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utilisateur:Astirmays ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikipedia and Universities
Le 06/05/2014 20:15, Leigh Thelmadatter a écrit : Where chapter support is wanted and helpful, no problem. What I mean here is that universities should not be required to work under a chapter just because one exists. I mean that universities should be able to work with a chapter when it exists, because it's the most convenient way. :-) Date: Tue, 6 May 2014 20:08:58 +0200 From: mathias.dam...@laposte.net To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikipedia and Universities Le 06/05/2014 16:24, Leigh Thelmadatter a écrit : (...) There is even the assumption on the part of many that this is the purview of chapters. Why shouldn't it be ? -- Mathias Damour https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utilisateur:Astirmays -- Mathias Damour https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utilisateur:Astirmays ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Sponsorship/donations to other organizations
Le 16/04/2014 14:13, Craig Franklin a écrit : I don't think the message of having a bit of discipline in your budget and making value-for-money a prime consideration is at all a bad thing for chapters to be doing. The way that the message was hammered in was at times arrogant, aggressive, or plain out insulting, but the message itself was a good one. It actually appears that the message, let aside its form, had other goals than the discipline in budget. This even peculiarly come across the Ting Chen message, when he says: The reason why I was worried was the funding of WMF, not that of the chapters. These messages were obviously an effort to curtail chapter growth (quoting https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WMF_Board_meetings/2013-11-24/FAQ which however deny it). It certainly brought some value-for-money consideration at the cost of huge volunteer time and efforts to fulfil the requirement as well as impeded projects and activities development. Large cash gifts made to third parties, in my view, rarely represent good value-for-money. All I ask for is a little consistency. I would also posit that if WMF donors wanted to donate to a worthy project like MariaDB, they'd donate to that rather than to the Foundation. This point was addressed above: other organizations [infrastructural software] have much less visibility. I actually didn't know anything about MariaDB before today... Le 16/04/2014 14:05, David Gerard a écrit : The solution would then appear to be to treat the chapters better, rather than others worse. +++ !! -- Mathias Damour 49 rue Carnot F-74000 Annecy 00 33 (0)4 57 09 10 56 00 33 (0)6 27 13 65 51 mathias.dam...@laposte.net https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Astirmays ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Funding of decentralized organizational structure
Hi, Message du 10/04/14 15:28 De : Anders Wennersten A : wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Copie à : Objet : Re: [Wikimedia-l] Funding of decentralized organizational structure (...) And I would be unhappy if the divergence between project became too big, POV paid editing etc we will be stronger as a totality if we abide to the same base guidelines So I question your urge and need to decentralize. For am as a contributer the most important part is that I know my inputs is securely stored and will not be misused by actors like google or plain advertising. And for this reason I believe in a centralized structure as about today (for now) Anders I don't tink that Ting Chen is disputing that the WMF should keep the core work. Yet the core work may mean about 20% of the movement resources instead of 90%... Mathias [[User:Astirmays]] ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Statement for the police about the fundraising?
Le 01/03/2014 15:49, Jane Darnell a écrit : The plot thickens! Of course it would be interesting to know what the average Finnish Wikipedia user knows about how Wikipedia works and whether they realize upon donation that they are not just donating to their Finnish (or Swedish) Wikipedia, but also to all of the other projects... Sure, still it's funny that I was replied nearly the opposite recently: Those editors are largely unaware of chapters and thorgs, and many are surprised to learn that up to a quarter of donors' gifts are passed on to them. !! https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:WMF_Board_meetings/2013-11-24/FAQ#I_thought_we_had_plenty_of_money._Isn.27t_the_WMF_growing_as_well.3F_Is_this_just_an_effort_to_curtail_chapter_growth.3F That must be a matter of point of view... -- Mathias Damour 49 rue Carnot F-74000 Annecy 00 33 (0)4 57 09 10 56 00 33 (0)6 27 13 65 51 mathias.dam...@laposte.net http://fr.vikidia.org/wiki/Utilisateur:Astirmays ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Board decisions on movement funding and approval issues
Le 12/02/2014 03:14, Mark a écrit : On 2/11/14, 9:18 PM, Samuel Klein wrote: The WMF also wants to let all groups have easier access to trademarks and funds. This is what user groups were designed to allow, with minimal overhead. These two ideas were combined into be a user group for two years. This part I do think is a good idea. There are many models of how individuals and groups participate and organize themselves within the global Wikimedia movement besides the umbrella Wikimedia Foundation, and imo the previous organizational/funding focus overlooked those who didn't fit one specific model: national Chapters, i.e. organizations seeking to represent Wikimedia-movement activities in a general sense, within the territory of one nation-state, and usually in a fairly official manner (paid staff, boards of directors, political visibility, etc.). Yes, that's exactly what I want to keep and see developing in my country, to achieve reliability, acknowledgment by third people, etc. I like that initiatives such as the individual-engagement grants, user-group recognition, etc. are opening up more avenues for Wikimedian organizations, organized along different lines, to find a more recognized (and funded) role in the movement. I like them too, saved I want it to be supervised by my chapter rather than the WMF ! Mark, may you disclose which country you are from/live in ? I am from France, living in France. -- Mathias Damour https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utilisateur:Astirmays http://fr.vikidia.org/wiki/Utilisateur:Astirmays http://en.vikidia.org ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Children and Simple English
Le 31/05/2013 04:10, James Salsman a écrit : Mathias Damour wrote: The only sad thing is that it won't be launched in other languages There is a longstanding proposal to create simple language Wikipedias in languages other than English and France, but it remains to be seen whether it is compatible with the current narrowing focus austerity regime. I'm afraid my message was not clear enought, I meant *Wikikids-type* projects should be launched in other language than existing active and well developed Vikidia in French and Wikikids.nl in Dutch ! I mean it should be a new set of project, not other simple language versions of Wikipedia. The new Wikikids to launch in other languages would be in particular in German *and in english*, thus this page http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikikids/Relation_to_Simple_English_Wikipedia Here is an extract of http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikikids/For_children_or_by_children_%3F ** Who should Wikikids be written for? Wikikids is a free encyclopedia designed for 8-13 yeas old children. However, this description is of use to define what it is geared toward, but it doesn't exclude its usefulness to others. The Simple English Wikipedia ultimately has a similar purpose, yet it is designed primarily to speak to /language level/ rather than its audience's /age range/. /*See : Wikikids/Relation to Simple English Wikipedia http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikikids/Relation_to_Simple_English_Wikipedia*/ We may imagine a documentary resource that, beyond considerations of age range, would address a comprehensibility level of any particular subject. Indeed, at any age we can be considered a beginner in a particular field of knowledge, and would need simple documents to take our first steps. However, as we become more familiar with the basic ideas in a field, we become able – whatever our age – able to explore and better comprehend ever more complex documentation. A child that is impassioned by archaeology would certainly take advantage of Wikipedia articles or even subsequently specialized articles if they do not contain too much technical jargon. The crucial quality for a documentary resource for children is to take them seriously and to take into account their learning level without stooping to infantilization. We may keep as a criterion that the quality of a children-directed content should be such that it could, without embarrassment, be offered to someone in a learning situation on that subject, whatever his age, be he a non-native speaker, a high school student in another language or just someone needing, in a particular field, to start from scratch. We may even be cautious in not making the reader feel inferior, be they adult or teenager, by making them feel that the content was not designed for him. The fact that a resource devoted to 8-13 years old children could be used for adult learning can constitute a guaranty against risks of infantilization. The achievement would be that any person, be he 8 or 88, when starting from scratch on a subject, would know that he could find what he needs on such a wiki. ** Le 30/05/2013 21:18, Mathias Damour a écrit : Hence the Wikikids proposal ! Our clue on fr.vikidia.org (one of the existing Wikikids-like project) on it being actually used by children is the numerous messages they drop on the Guestbook when invited to write what they think of Vikidia by a sitenotice : http://fr.vikidia.org/wiki/Vikidia:Livre_d%27or : Many thanks and enthusiasm ! :-) The only sad thing is that it won't be launched in other languages (and as a WM sister project) without your help and support (to fix the proposal, ask questions, write a RFC...) See : http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikikids just set down : http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikikids/Relation_to_Simple_English_Wikipedia -- Mathias Damour 49 rue Carnot F-74000 Annecy 00 33 (0)4 57 09 10 56 00 33 (0)6 27 13 65 51 mathias.dam...@laposte.net http://fr.vikidia.org/wiki/Utilisateur:Astirmays ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Effectiveness of meetings (Was: Affcom ...)
Le 14/05/2013 13:39, Lodewijk a écrit : (...) Based on these desired outcomes, you can estimate up front if the meeting is likely to be 'worth it'. If not, you can reduce the costs, increase the outcomes (different setup) or cancel all together. 2013/5/14 Lodewijk lodew...@effeietsanders.org The second relevant question is, in my opinion, whether the WMF travel policy is good, proportional etc. This policy has mostly received criticism from two sides - some think it is too elaborate, and WMF should get 'less luxury' (again fair discussion, but we should then focus on the whole question) - another criticism is that it should be equalized for all Wikimedia-sponsored trips, including individual engagement grants, trips to the chapters meeting etc. When this question was brought up last time, I believe it was Sue who mentioned that this would simply result in much less travel and participation. Again, a fair question. this would simply result in much less travel !!! Well, less travel, not only cost control, could be a justifiable objective itself. I mean that to convert the donations to Wikimedia into burning vast amounts of under-taxed kerosene is definitely not an environmentally friendly and responsible way to run the Wikimedia movement. I personally went to the chapter meeting in Milan rather than insist on attending the next Wikimania in good part because I could get there by train. -- Mathias Damour 49 rue Carnot F-74000 Annecy 00 33 (0)4 57 09 10 56 00 33 (0)6 27 13 65 51 mathias.dam...@laposte.net http://fr.vikidia.org/wiki/Utilisateur:Astirmays ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
[Wikimedia-l] And content - Re: WikiReaders4Kids
Hi, How should be token into consideration the low readability of Wikipedia, which was pointed out by some recent studies, as far as this device is devoted to children ? https://blog.wikimedia.org/2012/11/29/wikimedia-research-newsletter-november-2012/#Readability_of_the_English_Wikipedia.2C_Simple_Wikipedia.2C_and_Britannica_compared There is Simple English Wikipedia as far as English is concerned. For other language, there is the *Wikikids* proposal that has had some activity recently and 2 or 3 existing and well running wiki for children. That's about setting a frame pulled after the existing wikis for kids, to make good work, associate potential editors (including children), and then (notably ;-)) to supply a WikiReaders4Kids with suitable and quality content a few years later ! Present step is to assemble a comparison between those existing wikis to help to work out what should be the basic principles for such a project. Have a look at it ! http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikikids Le 05/05/2013 06:27, Victor Grigas a écrit : Hello everyone, My partner and I just started a campaign on Indiegogo.com to raise funds to buy all remaining WikiReaders and distribute them to schools and kids in places that don't have internet at no charge to the schools and kids. The campaign is here: http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/help-us-distribute-wikireaders-to-kids The video is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j07ROeiaFg0 Please consider funding the campaign and if you can't fund the campaign, please share the link with others! While I am an employee of the Wikimedia Foundation, I am doing this entirely as a volunteer. Thanks! -- Mathias Damour 49 rue Carnot F-74000 Annecy 00 33 (0)4 57 09 10 56 00 33 (0)6 27 13 65 51 mathias.dam...@laposte.net http://fr.vikidia.org/wiki/Utilisateur:Astirmays ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
[Wikimedia-l] Next one ? Re: Wikimedia Travel Guide: Board statement
Le 06/09/2012 15:21, Alice Wiegand a écrit : Hi all, on behalf of the Board of Trustees I'm glad to announce the following statement about the travel guide RfC http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Travel_Guide : Through the RfC, it is clear our community has reached consensus in favor of the creation of a travel guide. The Board supports the community decision to create a dedicated project (...) That's fine! They could be a next one, if it meets adequate resolution. That would be will be Wikikids/Vikidia. http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikikids -- Mathias Damour 49 rue Carnot F-74000 Annecy 00 33 (0)4 57 09 10 56 00 33 (0)6 27 13 65 51 mathias.dam...@laposte.net [[User:Astirmays]] http://fr.vikidia.org/wiki/Utilisateur:Astirmays ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
